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3361  Economy / Speculation / Re: Rally is starting on: October 02, 2011, 11:38:27 PM
Right now, if you look at the charts, we have a quadruple bottom (!!!) forming, with volume going steadily down and successively smaller highs.  What does everyone make of this?
3362  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 04:14:23 PM
6 rounds... time to liven it up.  I'm putting up a 5btc game.  (no pledges  Sad)
Anyone? http://old.bitponzi.net/Round_SUNDAYMASSIVE2.aspx
3363  Economy / Speculation / Re: If this isn't good press I don't know what is! on: October 02, 2011, 04:12:09 PM
Little-known website begins to advertise bitcoins!  woohoo!
3364  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 02:42:52 PM
I think our main point of contention, Trevor, is whether securing profits is such a bad thing.  Months ago, I lost my entire wallet in a massive game, and I reasoned that it could be avoided with pledges.  Our goals are different but not mutually exclusive!
I will stop avoiding fees in the 1, 3, 6 games since you have a problem with it.
3365  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 03:01:46 AM
Yeah, runlinux publicly released the source code of his bot.  It's been downloaded at least once.

I have downloaded it.  Of course I didn't plan to use it, since I think the bot is the second worse thing that is happening to the Bitponzi site.  But I was curious about the code (I'm looking for PHP code handling BTC to learn from it).  After downloading it I learnt it's written in visual basic, and so it has no interest for me.

lol visual basic... Tongue
3366  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 02:54:38 AM
Yeah, runlinux publicly released the source code of his bot.  It's been downloaded at least once.
3367  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 02:41:53 AM
The bot has never been a part of any planned strategy.  Also, you know, my strategy for avoiding fees pays me a small amount most of the time, but on two occasions has almost cost me 4-7btc each, because people got in before my second.

That was the reason why you asked the person who runs the site to prevent bots from making the second deposit, but let them join latter.  You are not even capable to take the smallest risk.  It was just too much in such a short time.  Please, stop all this shit and let the Bitponzi site recover.

It's really a calculated gamble more than a firm strategy.

A ridiculous tiny risk that you were not prepared to take.  So you asked the owner of the site to help you eliminate it by preventing the bots from getting in before you.  Come on, pay the fees or assume a tiny risk.

I really would like the second and following deposits (when made by the same person as the first and/or seconds after it) to pay the same fee.  Your strategy is despicable and I really hope to see it all together gone for good.

As for the pre-agreed issue, I won't be doing that with my lower-initial rounds, and even for the larger ones I can't really see how giving myself 0 risk while other people have the same outcome as they would have had originally is "bad."  Happy?

Of course not.  I'd be happy only if I saw your round style gone once and for all.  People don't have the same outcome or chances when you pre-agree with some people, because appart from you, they also have to get paid before the rest have any chances.  Come on, don't try to justify it any longer.  You don't want a game, you want an eassy 100% risk free profit.

For pledging:
Let's say I get 5btc in pledges.  I go ahead and make my 10btc round.  Total: 15btc.  You say this is a daunting hurdle for everyone to cross.
The concept of a pledge is such that people would have bet that much anyways.
Without pledges:
I go ahead and make my 10btc round.  People come in and invest 5btc.  Total: STILL 15btc!

The reason is making 100% sure you get your profit by agreeing with others to give it to you in echage for increasing their chances over the rest of the participants to get paid.

Please, there is no way to justify all that.  It's very nasty and despicable.  Keep doing it if you want, but don't try to make it look decent or honest, it is not.

Everything you say is true except for the despicable part.  I think that's really subjective.  It is true that some people get higher chances of getting paid.  However, I make this public.  You can choose whether or not to bet in my rounds... I don't force you to.  If you don't, and nobody does, then I lose my pledgers and I lose my risk-free status.  If you do, and a lot of people do, then I get money and some people get paid out.  Is that so wrong?  No, that's the market at work.

In any case, I'm not going to try to justify the previous rounds anymore.  If you think it's despicable, feel free to do so.  If I were to remove all pledges, ask mb300sd to ban bots, and also deposit much less, then you would be happy, right?
Because if site traffic proves that that strategy is sustainable and low-risk, I will be doing so.  The feeder sites are almost up, and I'm going to start looking at advertising tomorrow, so we're going to have a lot more traffic which is going to allow me to remove all the "despicable" stuff that you have listed.  I wouldn't have implemented the pledge system, or the 1+big depositing, or the other "shit" on bitcoinduit. Smiley
The truth is, the attention that the site is getting right now necessitates risk-cutting measures.
3368  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 02:03:30 AM
The bot has never been a part of any planned strategy.  Also, you know, my strategy for avoiding fees pays me a small amount most of the time, but on two occasions has almost cost me 4-7btc each, because people got in before my second.  It's really a calculated gamble more than a firm strategy.  As for the pre-agreed issue, I won't be doing that with my lower-initial rounds, and even for the larger ones I can't really see how giving myself 0 risk while other people have the same outcome as they would have had originally is "bad."  Happy?
For pledging:
Let's say I get 5btc in pledges.  I go ahead and make my 10btc round.  Total: 15btc.  You say this is a daunting hurdle for everyone to cross.
The concept of a pledge is such that people would have bet that much anyways.
Without pledges:
I go ahead and make my 10btc round.  People come in and invest 5btc.  Total: STILL 15btc!
3369  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 01:47:26 AM
Damn, Jon, if you hate games that result in people losing money, why don't you get out of the gambling forum?

I like gambling. But I only like gambling when it is a fair game.

I've been following this thread since its inception by the way. I just wanted to highlight the major point that this game is a huge ponzi scam. If people are happy continuing playing, then that is fine.

Jon, it's not a scam when everyone's aware of the jackpot, the pot, the roi and the fees.  Everything's crystal clear.  It's entirely fair. 
The only thing unfair is the bot, which I now think should be banned.
3370  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 01:41:36 AM
If people are desperate to throw away their bitcoins, could I give you my wallet address and simply give them to me?

Quote from: ama
The nice thing about this site is that, even though it's based on a ponzi scheme,

Quote from: wikipedia
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. Perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to keep the scheme going.

The system is destined to collapse because the earnings, if any, are less than the payments to investors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Add to that people cheating with bots, and people are still wanting to play?


Damn, Jon, if you hate games that result in people losing money, why don't you get out of the gambling forum?
3371  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 01:39:54 AM
ama, I don't know what you're talking about.  Shouldn't lower initial deposits allow the players to get paid?

I don't think so as long as you agree with a bunch of people before hand on the amount they have to deposit (after your second deposit) to make sure you get your profit.  "Players" have to pay those people before they start getting paid.

I'm sorry, it's nothing personal, but I really think the Bitponzi site needs to see your prearranged "games" gone for good if it wants to be a real game.

ama,
I haven't taken your criticism personally.  I think you bring up thoughtful points that should be addressed.
First of all, I'm not asking for pledges on the 1 or 3 btc games.  If I lose money, I'll discontinue it.  There's no reason for me to ask for pledges for low amounts.  Also, since there's a concern of "first man in," they'll be started at a random time in the evening to ensure nobody's waiting there for the round to start so they can put in huge amounts that block the progress of the game.
Second of all, it's easier to think of the pledgers as a part of the initial deposit for the 6btc round.  Yes, I'm greedy.  I want profit.  Doesn't everyone?  However, I don't intend to screw over all the players in my rounds because of it.  The idea of a pledge is, "I'd invest this much anyways, so I might as well tell the person starting the round.  I don't lose anything and he lowers his risk."
3372  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 01:29:48 AM
How do you like my proposals of smaller initial deposits?  I've proposed 6,3,1 daily. 

I think I already answered that question (not sure if in a post or a PM).  I don't like absolutey any pre-agreed "game".  They are not games, but investments for the proponent (second deposit after a tiny one to still the fees from the house) to take the money from the players.  I only participate (and have a lot of fun) on honest games were the host also plays and risks.  Sorry.

ama, I don't know what you're talking about.  Shouldn't lower initial deposits allow the players to get paid?
3373  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 01:22:36 AM
runlinux has agreed to take his bots off my games.  What's wrong with them now?  I was formerly under the impression that high initial deposits were fine... look at bitcoinduit's rounds, is all I can say.  Look at MASSIVEJACKPOT (on BitPonzi).  Those were fine.  In fact, the entire daily massive series was doing very well before bots.

I (and others) have stated it several times already.  Even without bots most participants have 0 chance to get anything out of the game (neither get paid, nor win the jackpot -only one person can get it-, nor have any fun planing or trying to deploy a game strategy).  It's like playing a lottery (the only prize is the jackpot) paying a huge tax (the payment for your second huge deposit).  There is no game.  There is no fun.

Oh ok, makes sense once you view it like that.
How do you like my proposals of smaller initial deposits?  I've proposed 6,3,1 daily. 
Sorry, the larger games were tailored to the demands of the bitcoinduit market, which was much larger.  People actually used to get paid out.  I'm sorry that has not happened, and I'll be discontinuing the daily massive series in favor of smaller ones.  There will still be daily series with large jackpots though (just smaller initials), and you will actually get paid Smiley
3374  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 02, 2011, 01:04:45 AM
Hi ama,
runlinux has agreed to take his bots off my games.  What's wrong with them now?  I was formerly under the impression that high initial deposits were fine... look at bitcoinduit's rounds, is all I can say.  Look at MASSIVEJACKPOT (on BitPonzi).  Those were fine.  In fact, the entire daily massive series was doing very well before bots.
3375  Economy / Speculation / Re: $/BTC Time Series (Probability) Analysis on: October 02, 2011, 12:13:12 AM
Wow, that's massively bullish!  Grin
3376  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 01, 2011, 11:37:39 PM
Not really... they only didn't work because of a lack of enough players.  The truth is that massive games can be successful without unaware people (see bitcoinduit).  High jackpots should always encourage betting, with no bots around.  Today's midsized jackpot round isn't even that big!

I think 8 BTC deposited before people get a chance to know the game is running is big enough for people not to play.  It is for me at least, and I think it should be for any sensible people, regardless of how big the jackpot is.

Over 15 minutes (-0.25 hours) past ending time for vhrodu96.   If it last many hours, maybe it helps the massive to get someone else into it, although I don't see anybody paying for the 8 predeposited coins.

Sorry about the 8 BTC; it was supposed to be smaller.  Also, for the record:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=39649.msg502796#msg502796
edit: ama, if you don't think it is going to get any more deposits, here's your chance to make a profit! Smiley
Deposit 1 btc and get out 2.25!
3377  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 01, 2011, 11:22:07 PM
btw, no bot on this guys. its pointless now anyways...

As we discussed yesterday, new un aware people are needed for the massive games to be successful.  People who have seen them working a few times have learnt and already know better and won't play.

Not really... they only didn't work because of a lack of enough players.  The truth is that massive games can be successful without unaware people (see bitcoinduit).  High jackpots should always encourage betting, with no bots around.  Today's midsized jackpot round isn't even that big!
3378  Economy / Gambling / Why have you left Ponzi? To all Bitcoinduit, Bitcatch and Spreadsheet gamblers on: October 01, 2011, 11:13:23 PM
Everyone has probably noticed that bitponzi is really quiet compared to what bitcoinduit used to be.  If you used to be at bitcoinduit and now you've left ponzi altogether, or if you were at bitcat.ch or a spreadsheeter, please tell me why you're not playing anymore!  I'll forward your suggestions to mb300sd.
3379  Economy / Speculation / Re: Rally is starting on: October 01, 2011, 09:14:55 PM
The biggest thing in my opinion that is going to make the price go up quickly is that as soon is we get some "market confirmation" all the sharks who sold out for a drop in price back at 15 will be buying back at 6 - 7.  Seems to me a large part of the market is just people sitting out, getting ready to jump back in. I think that will take us past 20. Just my guessing though.

A quick bubble to 20 (or hell, even 15) would be awesome.  We'd see another immense growth in hash rate, and another slow crash.  I won't need too many cycles like that to turn my bitcoin pocket change into enough dollars to ... not be invested in bitcoin.


We already had people buying back at 6... except someone with 10k coins stopped it instantly Sad
3380  Economy / Investor-based games / Re: BitPonzi.Net - The Bitcoin Ponzi Site - Now Hosted on VPS, NO MORE DOWNTIME! on: October 01, 2011, 08:21:38 PM
First iteration of the DAILY MID JACKPOT!
http://old.bitponzi.net/Round_DAILYMIDJACKPOT1.aspx
It's only got 8btc in right now.  Initial deposit was only 3btc.
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