Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[MooC Tals]

Don't tell me I should feel sorry for these people. They knew they were being scammed. How could they not. It was everywhere I mean everywhere.

TBH, I ordered and received one of their 800MH/s FPGA's back in the day in fairly short order, not having done any research on Butterfly Labs at the time after seeing their presence on these forums. They released their SC line pre-order announcement fairly soon after I took delivery of my FPGA, so I had no reason to suspect any chicanery at the time, and ordered a couple 60GHs SC's, and then a couple more in April of 2013 right before the time they raised their prices across their entire line IIRC.

... and here we are today, having learned MANY lessons along the way.

The FPGAs were not their invention. They repackaged ones from another manufacturer and sold them as their own. They were never genuine.

Yes this is so true, I have seen a post somewhere on this very forum can't remember where but as I was able to understand was the chips were a discontinued chinese brand of low quality and an overrun supply that was sitting on a shelf. According to the OP it was being sold off because they could only do one thing which was not originally for bitcoin hashing.

From what I could remember the chips were sold for around 15 to 25 bucks each I could be wrong but I do remember the reaction to this as being amazed how low it was.

This I will say, no one could have known then, how scammy this company was going to be (unless you looked into the founder who was a criminal on parole) but after the fpga's a pattern of scammery started to happen and after a while they knew they had you by the balls.

They knew everyone wanted to believe and they took advantage of that but to take it to the limit with burning in units and holding them till they were almost worthless.

BELIEVE

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[Inaba]

As usual, you are wrong. The idea that the FPGAs singles were made by another company is laughable. Have you ever been right about anything?

[MichaelBliss]

As usual, you are wrong. The idea that the FPGAs singles were made by another company is laughable. Have you ever been right about anything?

Aren't you in jail yet?

[Xian01]

As usual, you are wrong. The idea that the FPGAs singles were made by another company is laughable. Have you ever been right about anything?

We're discussing the FPGA chips, Josh. Not the Singles as a consumer product hashing @ 800MHs that were shipped out under the Butterfly Labs brand. Are you being intentionally obtuse ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg1211445#msg1211445



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg1211506#msg1211506

[elux]

As usual, you are wrong. The idea that the FPGAs singles were made by another company is laughable. Have you ever been right about anything?

Gets hard to keep track of all the lies, eh? 

[QuestionAuthority]

As usual, you are wrong. The idea that the FPGAs singles were made by another company is laughable. Have you ever been right about anything?

I've always wondered, do those ankle bracelets itch? Can you shower with it on?

[Inedible]

As usual, you are wrong. The idea that the FPGAs singles were made by another company is laughable. Have you ever been right about anything?

We're discussing the FPGA chips, Josh. Not the Singles as a consumer product hashing @ 800MHs that were shipped out under the Butterfly Labs brand. Are you being intentionally obtuse ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg1211445#msg1211445



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg1211506#msg1211506

You really are a disgusting person.

Edit: To be clear, I don't mean Xian01, I mean Josh

[Inaba]

Don't tell me I should feel sorry for these people. They knew they were being scammed. How could they not. It was everywhere I mean everywhere.

TBH, I ordered and received one of their 800MH/s FPGA's back in the day in fairly short order, not having done any research on Butterfly Labs at the time after seeing their presence on these forums. They released their SC line pre-order announcement fairly soon after I took delivery of my FPGA, so I had no reason to suspect any chicanery at the time, and ordered a couple 60GHs SC's, and then a couple more in April of 2013 right before the time they raised their prices across their entire line IIRC.

... and here we are today, having learned MANY lessons along the way.

The FPGAs were not their invention. They repackaged ones from another manufacturer and sold them as their own. They were never genuine.

Huh... I guess you're wrong again.

If you want to talk about chips, the idea that the chips are somehow "knocks offs" is also ludicrous and is very telling as to the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.  One doesn't make knock off FPGAs of that type (Since it would cost just as much to create the knock offs as the actual chips cost, duh)... but lets hypothesize for a moment and say something like that is the case.  The chips performed as specced, so what complaint do you have?  No one ever claimed they made their own FPGA chips... name one bitcoin hardware manufacturer that created their own FPGA chips in that era.


Anyway, the only one being obtuse here is you, Xian. To suggest that anyone created their own FPGA chips that were anywhere near competitive (if it even happened at all?) is completely ludicrous.  Every manufacturer used an off the shelf FPGA chip or they failed to produce a miner that was competitive.

[Xian01]

tl;dr: That's what I'm saying, so good. We understand each other. Every manufacturer, including Butterfly Labs, used off-the-shelf FPGA hardware for the initial generation.

To suggest that anyone created their own FPGA chips that were anywhere near competitive (if it even happened at all?) is completely ludicrous.  Every manufacturer used an off the shelf FPGA chip or they failed to produce a miner that was competitive.

Come on Josh. You're a smart guy. I shouldn't have to spell this out for you.

To be clear, I'm suggesting you did not design or have any involvement with the fabrication of the FPGA silicon (Altera EP3SL150F780) used in your 800MHs singles (as per your post below); I'm not discussing anything about the nature of chip performance whatsoever. Programming the Altera EP3SL150F780 for SHA256 hashing, building the PCB and enclosure - sure, that's part of the Butterfly Labs branding.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bitcoin-mining-make-money,3514-5.html

"In late 2011 and early 2012, innovative companies like Butterfly Labs, ZTEX in Germany, a grad student in China, and some individuals in the U.S. started offering FPGA-based mining devices. While most of these were based on the $100 Xilinx Spartan6-150 FPGA, the BFL design used an Altera FPGA, which the company sourced at a discounted price."

Very simple question. Is the statement above made in bolded text true or false ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg1211506#msg1211506

[Inaba]

To suggest that anyone created their own FPGA chips that were anywhere near competitive (if it even happened at all?) is completely ludicrous.  Every manufacturer used an off the shelf FPGA chip or they failed to produce a miner that was competitive.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bitcoin-mining-make-money,3514-5.html

"In late 2011 and early 2012, innovative companies like Butterfly Labs, ZTEX in Germany, a grad student in China, and some individuals in the U.S. started offering FPGA-based mining devices. While most of these were based on the $100 Xilinx Spartan6-150 FPGA, the BFL design used an Altera FPGA, which the company sourced at a discounted price."

Very simple question. Is the statement above made in bolded text true or false ?

To be clear, I'm suggesting you did not design or have any involvement with the fabrication of the FPGA silicon (Altera EP3SL150F780) used in your 800MHs singles (as per your post below); I'm not discussing anything about the nature of chip performance whatsoever. Programming the Altera EP3SL150F780 for SHA256 hashing, building the PCB and enclosure - sure, that's part of the Butterfly Labs branding.

Come on Josh. You're a smart guy. I shouldn't have to spell this out for you.

True or False ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg1211506#msg1211506

Of course we had nothing to do with the design of the Altera chip, are you insane?  I never claimed we did. But chuckle head up there claimed that we repackaged miners from someone else... then chuckle nuts MooCTals chimed in with his special brand of stupid, showing that he knows nothing about what he's talking about and claims that we somehow used knock off chips from China that "were not genuine," which is a ludicrous statement.

Xian, I'd say "come on you're a smart guy, I shouldn't have to lead you around by the nose so you can follow a conversation," but the reality is that you've shown time and again you are either intentionally obtuse (to use your verbiage) or you're just slow (IE not a smart guy) and have difficulty following a conversation that involves multiple parties and not just yourself. 

So, now that I've lead you around like a dog through the conversation, are you able to follow along at home or do you need more hand holding through this process?

[Xian01]

Thank you for answering the question in your usual bloviating fashion.

No, I'm not insane, but many of us genuinely do worry about your mental well-being. Don't take my word for it. Search these forums yourself. Psychopathy, being the general community consensus of a diagnosis for you. Narcissistic personality disorder being the runner-up.

"The FPGAs were not their invention. They repackaged ones from another manufacturer and sold them as their own" - This is a factual statement no matter how you try to rationalize a rebuttal. Butterfly Labs repackaged Altera FPGA's into their own 800 MHs Bitforce Single products. At the time, customers (raises hand) were led to believe that their verbiage of "manufacturing a line of high speed encryption processors" suggested that they manufactured the FPGA silicon ("encryption processors")

http://web.archive.org/web/20120424005628/http://www.butterflylabs.com/

"Butterfly Labs manufactures a line of high speed encryption processors for use in research, telecommunication and security applications."

... is disingenuous (again, par for course at Butterfly Labs) as you did not manufacture the processors (by your own admission), but merely the software, controller, I/O, power supply and packaging. The encryption processor was manufactured by Altera.

"To suggest that anyone created their own FPGA chips that were anywhere near competitive (if it even happened at all?) is completely ludicrous" - So, it's a good thing you didn't manufacture the FPGA chips then and relied on Altera's instead, benefitting from their competitive nature - Something you guys had zero to do with beyond programming the chip.

But anyway, your petty jabs and insults aside, I hope you can forgive me laughing off your false bravado after everything that has come to light recently, your lies revealed for all the world to see, while you so desperately and pathetically try to maintain the charade of nobility and importance. I don't know what has happened in life to make you into this truly wretched creature that haunts our planet, and the sooner you and the rest of your Butterfly Labs grifting charlatans are removed from the general population and prosecuted to the furthest extent the law allows, the sooner everyone you have harmed can begin the healing process.

It's your epic douchebaggery and hubris that has landed you in the situation you and your cronies find yourselves in today. By far, you and Jody have been responsible for the worst customer experience of my lifetime (and hey, I'm not the only one... the FTC finally acted on the thousands of complaints)

Remember Josh. You brought this all on yourselves. Don't blame us for your faults, and don't blame us for your misinterpretation, ignorance, and dismissal of lawful ways of conducting business in this country, resulting in uscourts.mowd.117531.

Speaking of "process" and "ludicrous statements", I'll just leave this here again so our readers might be brought up to date.

October 16th, 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20131016065038/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/

November 16th, 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20131117094636/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch

December 24th, 2013
https://web.archive.org/web/20131224125958/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch



http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.7.pdf

http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/

http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.12.pdf

Have a nice week at the office honey.

Good luck with http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.81.0.pdf !

[Gleb Gamow]

As usual, you are wrong. The idea that the FPGAs singles were made by another company is laughable. Have you ever been right about anything?

Aren't you in jail yet?

Dude, don't be penning shit like that when I have a mouthful of coffee. Now I have a mess to clean up. 

[Gleb Gamow]

Let's play the Juxtapose Game:

[MooC Tals]

As usual, you are wrong. The idea that the FPGAs singles were made by another company is laughable. Have you ever been right about anything?

Whats wrong?

I hope you're not under the impression anyone here would still believe anything you would have to say.

By all mean this is an open forum. Unless you're trying to drum up more traffic to your business website.

[Xian01]

By all mean this is an open forum. Unless you're trying to drum up more traffic to your business website.

I just want to know what his plans are for life after Butterfly Labs. I mean the dude wrote the book on career suicide in the internet age, so it's going to be quite the interesting case-study.

[Syke]

Of course we had nothing to do with the design of the Altera chip, are you insane?  I never claimed we did.

https://web.archive.org/web/20111001053714/http://butterflylabs.com/

Butterfly Labs manufactures a line of high speed encryption processors

I'll give you a pass because this was a BFL lie before you were hired, but BFL definitely lied about "manufacturing" the processor which they did not do.

[MooC Tals]

By all mean this is an open forum. Unless you're trying to drum up more traffic to your business website.

I just want to know what his plans are for life after Butterfly Labs. I mean the dude wrote the book on career suicide in the internet age, so it's going to be quite the interesting case-study.

President of the United States of America? or Politics in general.

[Viceroy]

I just want to know what his plans are for life after Butterfly Labs. I mean the dude wrote the book on career suicide in the internet age, so it's going to be quite the interesting case-study.

If Inaba were not such an ass the FTC would never have shown up.  I, for one, made a complaint to the FTC even though I've never purchases anything from the company.  I did that, specifically, because Inaba is an ass.

Think about that while you're in prison douchebag.

[Inaba]

I just want to know what his plans are for life after Butterfly Labs. I mean the dude wrote the book on career suicide in the internet age, so it's going to be quite the interesting case-study.

If Inaba were not such an ass the FTC would never have shown up.  I, for one, made a complaint to the FTC even though I've never purchases anything from the company.  I did that, specifically, because Inaba is an ass.

Think about that while you're in prison douchebag.

Nice!  Just quoting this so you can't remove it later.  Thanks for admitting it.  "I made a complaint to the FTC because someone was mean on the internet!" LOL!

[Viceroy]

Nice!  Just quoting this so you can't remove it later.  Thanks for admitting it.  "I made a complaint to the FTC because someone was mean on the internet!" LOL!

I have no intention of removing the comment, I'm getting it printed on a t-shirt:

"I helped send Inaba to prison".