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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 383281 times)
QuestionAuthority
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July 19, 2013, 03:16:25 PM
 #2141

Josh, let me help you out a bit.  "How to Handle Online Reputation" for Small Business.  This is a good start.

Tip for July 19, 2013
Overcome Negative Publicity
Combat negative publicity with an honest and professional response. If due to a mistake or error, acknowledge it and offer to make amends. Engaging dissatisfied customers can demonstrate your commitment to delivering good service. Go a step further by using the experience to teach others how to avoid their own mistakes.

http://www.manta.com/small-business/handle-online-reputation?referid=16216

BFL knows better.

From the BFL Guide to Handle Online Reputation
Tip for July 19, 2013
Troll up a Storm

Find the biggest douchebag you can, preferably sleeping off a bender on Skid Row.  Hire him and put him behind a keyboard as your main PR guy.  

ROTFL

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July 19, 2013, 03:21:53 PM
 #2142

That is for real companies who have products to deliver and honest business people running the show. Not going to happen with Josh and Co.

I tend to belive their Products technically could exist, and even some peer members got prototypes delivered. It's just not doable on a grand scale

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July 19, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
 #2143

It's called "fire your customer", there's lots of articles books on it.  Read up.  Customers who post lies and misinformation for no particular reason other than to troll or prevent others from purchasing (thereby believing they are enhancing their purchase value) are not the kind of customers we want.

Serious question... are you being serious?    Huh

EDIT: I am aware of the 'fire your customer' theory, but you seem to be going about it the wrong way...

:-: Bitcointalk Public Information Project (BPIP) New stats, new reports, and a new design(done by me. Smiley)
Don't be obsessed with your desires. The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, 'A flute with no holes, is not a flute... and a donut with no hole, is a Danish.' He was a funny guy.
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July 19, 2013, 03:56:50 PM
 #2144

It's called "fire your customer", there's lots of articles books on it.  Read up.  Customers who post lies and misinformation for no particular reason other than to troll or prevent others from purchasing (thereby believing they are enhancing their purchase value) are not the kind of customers we want.

Serious question... are you being serious?    Huh

EDIT: I am aware of the 'fire your customer' theory, but you seem to be going about it the wrong way...

It's a brilliant technique, pioneered by such business marvels as pirateat40.  He fired all his customers, to great success.
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July 19, 2013, 03:58:25 PM
 #2145

I've got mine on pre-order still too, I'm pretty confident things will be ok. My reasons:

  • The biggest bulk of orders will be behind them soon, so they'll fly through the backlog in no time.
  • Their organisation will improve both in size and efficiency
  • Even after most bitcoins have been mined, there are still many people who have no idea what a bitcoin is, so value will still increase

Having said that, I'm bloody impatient and would happily pay to move forward in the queue. But sadly that's not an option  Angry
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July 19, 2013, 04:02:13 PM
 #2146

It's called "fire your customer", there's lots of articles books on it.  Read up.  Customers who post lies and misinformation for no particular reason other than to troll or prevent others from purchasing (thereby believing they are enhancing their purchase value) are not the kind of customers we want.

Serious question... are you being serious?    Huh

EDIT: I am aware of the 'fire your customer' theory, but you seem to be going about it the wrong way...

It's a brilliant technique, pioneered by such business marvels as pirateat40.  He fired all his customers, to great success.

Yeah, like I said. It's a house of cards waiting to fall.
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July 19, 2013, 04:19:16 PM
 #2147

everyone should claim the payment made bfl WILL NOT BE LIABLE

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July 19, 2013, 04:31:02 PM
 #2148

Apparently for you (Josh) there is no grey area between "the customer is always right" and "fire your customer"...

... How about: Don't be a rude to your existing customers - or potential customers (newbies sub-forum after all!) - and especially don't get into arguments with them on a public forum.

The best thing you could do right now is ignore this thread from now on. You are just going further down the rabbit hole by responding. You come off as rude and arrogant and this doesn't reflect well on the company. I don't know how you came to be a part of BFL nor how you are positioned within BFL at the moment, but I am amazed they still let you work there given your interactions with some of the people here.

EDIT: Oh right you are a COO?

Quote from: greenbtc
Yeah, like I said. It's a house of cards waiting to fall.

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July 19, 2013, 04:59:42 PM
 #2149

It's called "fire your customer", there's lots of articles books on it.  Read up.  Customers who post lies and misinformation for no particular reason other than to troll or prevent others from purchasing (thereby believing they are enhancing their purchase value) are not the kind of customers we want.

Serious question... are you being serious?    Huh

EDIT: I am aware of the 'fire your customer' theory, but you seem to be going about it the wrong way...

Their theory is "open fire on your customer". Grin
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July 19, 2013, 05:29:14 PM
 #2150

Their theory is "open fire on your customer". Grin
Well they have more basic theory:

You, again, have no way of knowing...

But we know! They are scam and it is more than obvious now that from the very beginning BFL was projected to be a scam!
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July 19, 2013, 05:56:50 PM
 #2151

I received my 30 GH/s miner 2 weeks ago, and it has been mining perfectly fine since. Sure, I had to wait for over a year and it was not fun seeing the difficulty go exponential in 2013, but at least it is here now. I guess I got lucky since I will likely be able to make most (but not all) of the bitcoins I invested back.

But let's face it, most users in the BFL queue at the moment will never make a profit by the time they receive their unit. And that is likely the reason that all sales are final. So while BFL is not a scam, most customers are screwed anyway. Bitcoin mining is a race against time and most people bet on the wrong horse.
It depends on how you define profit.  A profit in BTC?  Probably not if they ordered when BTC was worth less than $50.  A profit in USD?  Quite certainly, yes.
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July 19, 2013, 06:29:21 PM
 #2152

I believe you when you say my logic escapes you.  You are apparently unable to understand simple concepts, even though I've tried to use simple methods to explain them.  Something as advanced as logic would be difficult for someone to follow if they can't grasp the language they are trying to use. 

Here, let me try to be even more direct with you, try to follow along:

This is false, also known as a lie, since you a) have no way of knowing if we can or can not fulfill preorders.  Also a lie since you are unaware of the actual laws surrounding the FTC.  However, I will grant you a pass on the "lie" portion of the FTC regulation.  Lots of people think they are lawyers on the internet, but have absolutely no idea what they are talking about when it comes to legal matters.  This is you.

Another false statement, also known as a lie.  You, again, have no way of knowing whether or not we are barely fulfilling preorders.  You know exactly zero information about our orderbook. 

For all intents and purposes, this is a restatement of your first point.  So again, it's either a lie or you are yet another clueless internet lawyer.  You may THINK you know what the laws are, but you obviously don't. 

Lets go over this, shall we?  Why do you think the customer is always first?  Let me guess, you've heard the tired old saw 'the customer is always right!' correct?  Guess what?  Not true!  It's a false business methodology that has been proven to be detrimental to business.  It's a hold over from the 70's and 80's that has wrecked many a-business. 

Here, let me help you out:

It's called "fire your customer", there's lots of articles books on it.  Read up.  Customers who post lies and misinformation for no particular reason other than to troll or prevent others from purchasing (thereby believing they are enhancing their purchase value) are not the kind of customers we want.

Again, grow up and accept responsibility for your actions instead of throwing a tantrum on an internet forum and blaming others for your mistakes.
 

Josh, why don't you reread exactly what you said.  I took out my quotes and left you with just your own words.  How does that read to you? I'm pretty sure that is the least concerted effort I have ever seen to communicate with a customer in a professional manner!  You couldn't have used much more inflammatory language there.

If you can fire me, why won't can't I fire you?  By the way, the customer is in fact always first.  I didn't say the customer was always right, but you would probably attribute that to my reading comprehension skills.  You're in business to serve the customer bud.  I really was trying to help you out there with the Small Business Article.  You could really benefit from some positive customer service skills.

My favorite quote though is this one.  "Again, grow up and accept responsibility for your actions instead of throwing a tantrum on an internet forum and blaming others for your mistakes." 
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July 19, 2013, 07:58:29 PM
 #2153

You could really benefit from some positive customer service skills.

 They evidently don't care - seemingly live in their own arrogant reality distortion bubble where they can do no wrong, we should not complain about their "mistakes", and their customers are yapping animals who have the honor and privilege of being allowed to purchase their fine, American-made Bitcoin products.

 If they fire and refund you, whereby breaching your contract with them to receive product you have paid for, they will threaten to countersue you for slander and defamation should you start legal proceedings. Even if you have a defensible case and can rebut your "slander and defamation" systematically with facts and evidence to support your statements.

 In my opinion, such enterprises should not be rewarded with customer patronage on basic principle. Life is just too short.

 Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and it would appear we are watching such a scenario play out with America's favorite Bitcoin company on both these forums and their own, with certain personalities running amok and unchecked.


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July 19, 2013, 08:09:33 PM
 #2154

You could really benefit from some positive customer service skills.

 They evidently don't care - seemingly live in their own arrogant reality distortion bubble where they can do no wrong, we should not complain about their "mistakes", and their customers are yapping animals who have the honor and privilege of being allowed to purchase their fine, American-made Bitcoin products.

 If they fire and refund you, whereby breaching your contract with them to receive product you have paid for, they will threaten to countersue you for slander and defamation should you start legal proceedings. Even if you have a defensible case and can rebut your "slander and defamation" systematically with facts and evidence to support your statements.

 In my opinion, such enterprises should not be rewarded with customer patronage on basic principle. Life is just too short.

 Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and it would appear we are watching such a scenario play out with America's favorite Bitcoin company on both these forums and their own, with certain personalities running amok and unchecked.
Please show the laws or case studies that indicate it is a breach of contract for a company to cancel your order and refund your money.
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July 19, 2013, 08:16:52 PM
 #2155

Please show the laws or case studies that indicate it is a breach of contract for a company to cancel your order and refund your money.

 IANAL. Can't answer that question for you. However, I have to trust that my extremely knowledgeable (and justifiably expensive) council knows what they are talking about and how they are advising me.

 
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July 19, 2013, 08:21:02 PM
 #2156

If you had a February order for a Single with BFL and didn't have to pay for your electricity, would you keep your order?  Or do everything possible to get a refund?

Will these guys ever end up shipping 2013 orders? 
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July 19, 2013, 08:27:36 PM
 #2157

Please show the laws or case studies that indicate it is a breach of contract for a company to cancel your order and refund your money.

 IANAL. Can't answer that question for you. However, I have to trust that my extremely knowledgeable (and justifiably expensive) council knows what they are talking about and how they are advising me.
IANAL either.  Interesting.  I would love to see the precedent they are relying on, because I can't seem to find any (with my limited research tools).

If you had a February order for a Single with BFL and didn't have to pay for your electricity, would you keep your order?  Or do everything possible to get a refund?

Will these guys ever end up shipping 2013 orders? 
I would keep it, definitely.  The BTC you eventually mine will be worth more than the USD you will get from a refund.  I bet the people who canceled their 6/23 orders for singles in April, May, or June are banging their heads on a wall right now.  The only reason I would want to cancel is if the BTC price dropped significantly (down to single digits).
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July 19, 2013, 08:34:58 PM
 #2158

Will these guys ever end up shipping 2013 orders? 
No. They will never end up shipping even their 2012 orders.
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July 19, 2013, 10:24:23 PM
Last edit: July 19, 2013, 10:51:15 PM by jhansen858
 #2159

To illustrate my point since people don't seem to get it.  

Even the most broke ass college student will eventually earn $400,000 over a 40 year career.  Thats just $10,000 / year for 40 years, an unrealistically low number.  That amounts to 0.005% of your lifetime earning potential even if your a homeless person working for quarters on street corners.  So while $2,000 might seem like its worth it to stress this hard over, I can assure you in the long run, it only makes you look like a huge tool.  I have lost well over 5k multiple times in life just loaning money to friends that never paid me back or a bad business idea that never went anywhere.  I have also come up on unexpected money that was in my favor.  $2k is a piss in the ocean in the "Grand Scale" of things.   You made a pre-order, knowing that its a risky bet (what about bitcoin isn't?), didn't get your expectations properly set, and are now acting like a raging faggot.  I'm just trying to point out the fact that all the faggotry may not actually be worth it, adds additional stress to your own life, and accomplishes nothing other then making you look like a 15 year old tool.  You got into this business full well knowing it is risky as hell.  Now that we are at the finish line, and your stuff is about to be shipped, why persist in the immature behavior?  Just chill the fuck out for a minute.  
Yep, suck my dick too.

My witty retort to the other guy got deleted so I'll just quote my self "accomplishes nothing other than making you look like a 15 year old tool."

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July 20, 2013, 03:14:16 AM
 #2160

IANAL either.  Interesting.  I would love to see the precedent they are relying on, because I can't seem to find any (with my limited research tools).

I would imagine there aren't a lot of precedents for that since I believe it is basic contract law.

Once you make a deal with someone you can't just turn around at some future point and say "ahhh I changed my mind, here's your money back so I no longer owe you any obligations" (unless that option was specifically part of the deal).

There are also things you can't contract out of either, which is why the whole "well we said it was final sale only" bit is a hilarious joke if there is legislation that says something to the effect of "if someone pre-orders a product and you don't deliver within x days, you are obligated to provide them with a refund if so requested".

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