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Author Topic: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.  (Read 608840 times)
Siegfried
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November 28, 2013, 12:31:38 AM
 #581

Can you get around paying taxes on bitcoin if you buy things directly instead of converting to fiat? Also, how would the government know how much you should pay if there is no record of what price you bought your bitcoins at?


The real question isn't can it be done.  The question is, are you willing to break your local laws?

It is a real question. Many people do not accept the legitimacy of the state and do not want to finance the murder and imprisonment of their fellow humans and the eventual destruction of civilization. Many support bitcoin precisely because its deprives the state of its power to do evil.
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fcmatt
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November 28, 2013, 12:33:10 AM
 #582

What about something like okpay and their debit card? Just keep funding it for purchases...

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cr1776
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November 28, 2013, 12:33:22 AM
 #583

i suppose that would depend on how many $1000 coins one holds  Wink

And whether you are 'wealthy elite' at
- $100,000
- $1,000,000
- $10,000,000
- $20,000,000
- $50,000,000
- $100,000,000

Where is the cutoff?
wachtwoord
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November 28, 2013, 12:38:25 AM
 #584

i suppose that would depend on how many $1000 coins one holds  Wink

And whether you are 'wealthy elite' at
- $100,000
- $1,000,000
- $10,000,000
- $20,000,000
- $50,000,000
- $100,000,000

Where is the cutoff?

>=$100M which is the very top considered in this article http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-02/its-1-world-who-owns-what-223-trillion-global-wealth

That would place you in the top 29000. So even when you have $100M there are still 28999 people who think your poor Grin

cdog
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November 28, 2013, 01:05:15 AM
 #585

It is a real question. Many people do not accept the legitimacy of the state and do not want to finance the murder and imprisonment of their fellow humans and the eventual destruction of civilization. Many support bitcoin precisely because its deprives the state of its power to do evil.

Thats a powerful post and one which we should give pause to consider.

I accept the legitimacy of the state to protect my personal freedom to act in such a way that does not infringe on the rights of other people.

However...

The current situation we have here in America is a far cry from that, because our actions are dominated by a corrupt military-industrial complex and a broken political system which is controlled by an extortionate cadre of banks and financial institutions. This makes supporting the state at the least very distasteful, and at the worst ethically reprehensible.

If Bitcoin does indeed become BIG, as in really big, I can easily see America getting wound back in 50-100 years to a vision closer to that of the founding fathers, because many of the most wealthy and influential people in Bitcoin share the vision of a smaller, less powerful, less corrupt and less violent federal government.

cr1776
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November 28, 2013, 01:08:41 AM
 #586

Perhaps that is a poll question. I bet different people would pick different levels to be considered "wealthy elite". It wonder what the consensus would be.

Cdog, I agree 100%

i suppose that would depend on how many $1000 coins one holds  Wink

And whether you are 'wealthy elite' at
- $100,000
- $1,000,000
- $10,000,000
- $20,000,000
- $50,000,000
- $100,000,000

Where is the cutoff?

>=$100M which is the very top considered in this article http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-02/its-1-world-who-owns-what-223-trillion-global-wealth

That would place you in the top 29000. So even when you have $100M there are still 28999 people who think your poor Grin
BittBurger
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November 28, 2013, 01:37:53 AM
 #587

Nope, that's income taxes.  Increases in the value of an asset (such as bitcoins owned) is capital gains taxes, which is 20% MAX and normally in the 10 to 12% range in the US.
For those in the higher income brackets, you're looking at 30%. 
I believe its only 20% if you hold long term (more than 1 year) and you are not in upper income brackets already.
Im fuzzy on the details, but in my case - making about 100,000 a year after taxes, and selling before 1 year has passed, I was told I'm looking at 30% plus another 3%.
So thats just me.  I know its lower for those making less.

Germany has 0% capital gains.  If I was in europe, I would take a road trip to Germany ....

Bitcoin's true purpose defined in Satoshi's message on the Genesis Block:
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
View it on the Blockchain | Genesis Block Newspaper Copies
Arriemoller
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November 28, 2013, 02:25:18 AM
 #588

This thread has come true for many many people (who have cashed out lol)

Remember - it aint real until its actually in your hands ....

And getting it there isn't super easy.

And Uncle Sam is going to rape you for 20-30% of it ...

Mo money Mo problems ...

Europe is big, so that depends on where you live.
In Sweden it's a flat 30% tax.

Demokrati: Två vargar och ett lamm röstar om lunchmenyn.      Democracy: Two wolfes and a lamb votes about the lunch menu.
Frihet: Ett väl beväpnat lamm opponerar sig mot omröstningen.  Freedom: A well armed lamb opposes the outcome.
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November 28, 2013, 04:16:30 AM
 #589

Cheers gentlement!


manuel
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November 28, 2013, 08:03:44 AM
 #590

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!
Hawker
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November 28, 2013, 08:07:18 AM
 #591

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

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JekyllIsland
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November 28, 2013, 08:11:25 AM
 #592

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

You have to pay taxes for cashing it out, not using it.
manuel
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November 28, 2013, 08:11:31 AM
 #593

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

Of course you do NOT.
manuel
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November 28, 2013, 08:13:15 AM
 #594

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

You have to pay taxes for cashing it out, not using it.

That would depend on where and how you "cashed it out".  It seems to me like one of the primary purposes and advantages of bitcoin is to stop governments from stealing private property by pointing a gun to your head.
waqas
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November 28, 2013, 08:15:00 AM
 #595

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

Of course you do NOT.

agree with you no bitcoiner going to pay taxes because we are anonymous and not going to pay thing to any one

JekyllIsland
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November 28, 2013, 08:18:13 AM
 #596

I fucking hate the terrorist government in the USA, i didn't sign up for this shit. Cry

I honestly don't know who these people think they are. Some of them honestly think what they're doing is right.
Hawker
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November 28, 2013, 08:24:04 AM
 #597

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

You have to pay taxes for cashing it out, not using it.

That would depend on where and how you "cashed it out".  It seems to me like one of the primary purposes and advantages of bitcoin is to stop governments from stealing private property by pointing a gun to your head.

If you want to use your Bitcoin to buy houses or cars or whatever, then its much cheaper to pay your taxes and enjoy the proceeds.


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Arriemoller
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November 28, 2013, 08:58:37 AM
 #598

Those of you who don't like your governments/countrys, regardless of where you live, why don't you move somewhere else?
There must be some other country somewhere that you like better.
Personally I don't mind paying tax (within reason) since it pays for my insulin, Enbrel, and my 50% disability pension.
I'm not saying I love my government, on the contrary, I voted on a opposition party. But from there to refuse paying tax is a bit too long step.

Demokrati: Två vargar och ett lamm röstar om lunchmenyn.      Democracy: Two wolfes and a lamb votes about the lunch menu.
Frihet: Ett väl beväpnat lamm opponerar sig mot omröstningen.  Freedom: A well armed lamb opposes the outcome.
Lewis2
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November 28, 2013, 09:28:11 AM
 #599

As long as there is no crazy spending, I think you can get away with not paying anything.

I agree with arriemoller, paying tax is a luxury problem. People claiming to be the new wealthy elite because they bought some extremely speculative currency should not be whining about the tax that comes with it.

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November 28, 2013, 09:31:57 AM
 #600

Oh, and than the we are anonymous whining, Bitcoin is in the hands of governments, chinese and daytraders so your idealogist currency isn't all that anymore.  Accept it.

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