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Author Topic: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.  (Read 507964 times)
MoonShadow
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November 28, 2013, 12:21:09 AM
 #581

Can you get around paying taxes on bitcoin if you buy things directly instead of converting to fiat? Also, how would the government know how much you should pay if there is no record of what price you bought your bitcoins at?


The real question isn't can it be done.  The question is, are you willing to break your local laws?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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CoinCidental
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November 28, 2013, 12:30:48 AM
 #582

This thread has come true for many many people (who have cashed out lol)

Remember - it aint real until its actually in your hands ....

And getting it there isn't super easy.

And Uncle Sam is going to rape you for 20-30% of it ...

Mo money Mo problems ...

Only 20-30%?

God, you US citizens are lucky bastards. I won't tell you the amount of raping that gets an European declaring capital gains of +6 figures - you would cry.

He was lowballing it, anyone who makes a million USD or more usually loses 50% if they try to take it in a lump sum.

Nope, that's income taxes.  Increases in the value of an asset (such as bitcoins owned) is capital gains taxes, which is 20% MAX and normally in the 10 to 12% range in the US.

I'm crying. Really. You don't even know how lucky you are.

there may be some way to cash out internationally in china ,eastern europe or  russsia if you dont mind and reduce your taxes
down to about zero and transfer the money to a tax free haven ,(quick  google check says  there are several )
this may or may nor be legal depending on which country you reside but if you have a lot of BTC  you can also buy citizenship in a lot
of other countries that dont have such taxes

Never to return.

if i had enough coins id have no problems moving to china for awhile to cash them Cheesy
open a chinese bank account and you can withdraw money anywhere with  the atm card
without losing 40-50%
Siegfried
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November 28, 2013, 12:31:38 AM
 #583

Can you get around paying taxes on bitcoin if you buy things directly instead of converting to fiat? Also, how would the government know how much you should pay if there is no record of what price you bought your bitcoins at?


The real question isn't can it be done.  The question is, are you willing to break your local laws?

It is a real question. Many people do not accept the legitimacy of the state and do not want to finance the murder and imprisonment of their fellow humans and the eventual destruction of civilization. Many support bitcoin precisely because its deprives the state of its power to do evil.
fcmatt
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November 28, 2013, 12:33:10 AM
 #584

What about something like okpay and their debit card? Just keep funding it for purchases...
cr1776
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November 28, 2013, 12:33:22 AM
 #585

i suppose that would depend on how many $1000 coins one holds  Wink

And whether you are 'wealthy elite' at
- $100,000
- $1,000,000
- $10,000,000
- $20,000,000
- $50,000,000
- $100,000,000

Where is the cutoff?
wachtwoord
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November 28, 2013, 12:38:25 AM
 #586

i suppose that would depend on how many $1000 coins one holds  Wink

And whether you are 'wealthy elite' at
- $100,000
- $1,000,000
- $10,000,000
- $20,000,000
- $50,000,000
- $100,000,000

Where is the cutoff?

>=$100M which is the very top considered in this article http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-02/its-1-world-who-owns-what-223-trillion-global-wealth

That would place you in the top 29000. So even when you have $100M there are still 28999 people who think your poor Grin

cdog
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November 28, 2013, 01:05:15 AM
 #587

It is a real question. Many people do not accept the legitimacy of the state and do not want to finance the murder and imprisonment of their fellow humans and the eventual destruction of civilization. Many support bitcoin precisely because its deprives the state of its power to do evil.

Thats a powerful post and one which we should give pause to consider.

I accept the legitimacy of the state to protect my personal freedom to act in such a way that does not infringe on the rights of other people.

However...

The current situation we have here in America is a far cry from that, because our actions are dominated by a corrupt military-industrial complex and a broken political system which is controlled by an extortionate cadre of banks and financial institutions. This makes supporting the state at the least very distasteful, and at the worst ethically reprehensible.

If Bitcoin does indeed become BIG, as in really big, I can easily see America getting wound back in 50-100 years to a vision closer to that of the founding fathers, because many of the most wealthy and influential people in Bitcoin share the vision of a smaller, less powerful, less corrupt and less violent federal government.
cr1776
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November 28, 2013, 01:08:41 AM
 #588

Perhaps that is a poll question. I bet different people would pick different levels to be considered "wealthy elite". It wonder what the consensus would be.

Cdog, I agree 100%

i suppose that would depend on how many $1000 coins one holds  Wink

And whether you are 'wealthy elite' at
- $100,000
- $1,000,000
- $10,000,000
- $20,000,000
- $50,000,000
- $100,000,000

Where is the cutoff?

>=$100M which is the very top considered in this article http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-02/its-1-world-who-owns-what-223-trillion-global-wealth

That would place you in the top 29000. So even when you have $100M there are still 28999 people who think your poor Grin
BittBurger
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November 28, 2013, 01:37:53 AM
 #589

Nope, that's income taxes.  Increases in the value of an asset (such as bitcoins owned) is capital gains taxes, which is 20% MAX and normally in the 10 to 12% range in the US.
For those in the higher income brackets, you're looking at 30%. 
I believe its only 20% if you hold long term (more than 1 year) and you are not in upper income brackets already.
Im fuzzy on the details, but in my case - making about 100,000 a year after taxes, and selling before 1 year has passed, I was told I'm looking at 30% plus another 3%.
So thats just me.  I know its lower for those making less.

Germany has 0% capital gains.  If I was in europe, I would take a road trip to Germany ....

Bitcoin's true purpose alluded-to in Satoshi's message on the Genesis Block:
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
https://blockchain.info/tx/4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b?show_adv=true
Arriemoller
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November 28, 2013, 02:25:18 AM
 #590

This thread has come true for many many people (who have cashed out lol)

Remember - it aint real until its actually in your hands ....

And getting it there isn't super easy.

And Uncle Sam is going to rape you for 20-30% of it ...

Mo money Mo problems ...

Europe is big, so that depends on where you live.
In Sweden it's a flat 30% tax.

Demokrati: Två vargar och ett lamm röstar om lunchmenyn.      Democracy: Two wolfes and a lamb votes about the lunch menu.
Frihet: Ett väl beväpnat lamm opponerar sig mot omröstningen.  Freedom: A well armed lamb opposes the outcome.
dexX7
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November 28, 2013, 04:16:30 AM
 #591

Cheers gentlement!


manuel
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November 28, 2013, 08:03:44 AM
 #592

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!
Hawker
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November 28, 2013, 08:07:18 AM
 #593

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

JekyllIsland
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November 28, 2013, 08:11:25 AM
 #594

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

You have to pay taxes for cashing it out, not using it.
manuel
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November 28, 2013, 08:11:31 AM
 #595

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

Of course you do NOT.
manuel
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November 28, 2013, 08:13:15 AM
 #596

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

You have to pay taxes for cashing it out, not using it.

That would depend on where and how you "cashed it out".  It seems to me like one of the primary purposes and advantages of bitcoin is to stop governments from stealing private property by pointing a gun to your head.
waqas
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November 28, 2013, 08:15:00 AM
 #597

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

Of course you do NOT.

agree with you no bitcoiner going to pay taxes because we are anonymous and not going to pay thing to any one

JekyllIsland
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November 28, 2013, 08:18:13 AM
 #598

I fucking hate the terrorist government in the USA, i didn't sign up for this shit. Cry

I honestly don't know who these people think they are. Some of them honestly think what they're doing is right.
Hawker
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November 28, 2013, 08:24:04 AM
 #599

Jesus don't pay taxes.  This defeats the purpose of bitcoin!

Bitcoin is a currency and an investment.  In order to use it, you have to pay taxes.  As your Jesus said "Render unto Ceaser..."

You have to pay taxes for cashing it out, not using it.

That would depend on where and how you "cashed it out".  It seems to me like one of the primary purposes and advantages of bitcoin is to stop governments from stealing private property by pointing a gun to your head.

If you want to use your Bitcoin to buy houses or cars or whatever, then its much cheaper to pay your taxes and enjoy the proceeds.


Arriemoller
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November 28, 2013, 08:58:37 AM
 #600

Those of you who don't like your governments/countrys, regardless of where you live, why don't you move somewhere else?
There must be some other country somewhere that you like better.
Personally I don't mind paying tax (within reason) since it pays for my insulin, Enbrel, and my 50% disability pension.
I'm not saying I love my government, on the contrary, I voted on a opposition party. But from there to refuse paying tax is a bit too long step.

Demokrati: Två vargar och ett lamm röstar om lunchmenyn.      Democracy: Two wolfes and a lamb votes about the lunch menu.
Frihet: Ett väl beväpnat lamm opponerar sig mot omröstningen.  Freedom: A well armed lamb opposes the outcome.
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