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Author Topic: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.  (Read 508040 times)
Arriemoller
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February 18, 2014, 07:23:02 PM
 #861

Yes it is, but there is really nothing you can do about that, I can't stop a war or overthrow a government.
When the war stops or the government stops the mismanagement these countries will get on their feet more or less automatically.

Demokrati: Två vargar och ett lamm röstar om lunchmenyn.      Democracy: Two wolfes and a lamb votes about the lunch menu.
Frihet: Ett väl beväpnat lamm opponerar sig mot omröstningen.  Freedom: A well armed lamb opposes the outcome.
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February 18, 2014, 07:27:23 PM
 #862

Oh, someone has a different opinion than you do? Must be a troll. Turn on Ignore-Mode! *LALALALALALALALA*

Quote
in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.

Quote
Andreas Antonopolous talks about the opportunity for "banking" services opening up doors for the 3rd World in many of his talks.

Quote
He seems like a very smart guy to me, But im not gonna google to find some alleged arguments that he made for the sake of this discussion...you have to realize this is a bit ridiculous. either post the argument here, or let it be.

Quote
I remember a few arguments he made alongside "people save fees if they send money back home to their families" and something like people could use cellphones and sms for obtaining bitcoins and so on, but this all just affects people who already are doing well enough to afford a cellphone and its fees, and of course all food and shelter, or they probably wouldn't get a cellphone. So it's not really about the majority of people who are starving. that was my point - maybe in some circumstances it would help some people, but i don't really see any great solutions of big problems there...but of course i might have missed something. im far from beeing an expert on this topic aswell.

The reason people refer to you as a troll is that you find exceptions with everything, and keep the argument going. There is no response that will ever make you say "Oh.  Yeah.  Good point." and get up from your computer and walk away.  Certain people just morph the argument into 900 other topics, as you negate each of their misconceptions.  Thats when people like BitChick "bow out".  It becomes a fruitless endeavour.  You should recognize this about yourself maybe, and adjust how you debate/disagree with things.

To answer your question, Andreas has pointed out that even the poorest people in Africa with no running water, have satellite dishes on their mud huts.  Apparently they save forever to buy one, which powers their cell phone and updates it.  And no.  Cell service is not $99 a month like it is here in the USA.  :-/  Their cell phone enables them to transact money and carry out communication with the rest of their world.  Its that important.  These same cell phones which are currently using a text service to send and receive funds, can be used with Bitcoin.  

There are 2 companies in africa right now working to build Bitcoin texting services.  Your question was, why is this relevant to poor people, to have banking opportunities?  As per Andreas, it opens up a whole new world of investing, saving, appreciation in value, transferring of funds, and participation on the world stage that they never had before.  Sure, some will do nothing with that.  Others who are poor but still brilliant, will see the immense opportunities in having access to these things, and will literally build businesses and transform their lives.  And yes, the remittances market is a hundreds-million dollar market that Bitcoin will assuredly take over.  Western union charges the poorest people in the poorest countries the highest fees to send money home to family.  $40 on a $100 transfer sometimes.  Having that $40 available to the family instead, times millions of families, can singlehandedly pump hundreds of millions of dollars back to the poorest people on the planet.  The list goes on and on.  

I would advise you to stop being lazy about your education on Bitcoin, and spend the next week listening to *every* speech from Andreas Antonopoulos on youtube.  Specifically the Joe Rogan one, which is 3 hours long.  If you don't have the energy or interest, then be aware that you are missing about 95% of the pertinent information on the topic you're debating.  

-B-

Bitcoin's true purpose alluded-to in Satoshi's message on the Genesis Block:
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
https://blockchain.info/tx/4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b?show_adv=true
MoonShadow
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February 18, 2014, 07:29:46 PM
 #863

Yes it is, but there is really nothing you can do about that, I can't stop a war or overthrow a government.
When the war stops or the government stops the mismanagement these countries will get on their feet more or less automatically.


Automaticly, but not immediately.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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February 18, 2014, 10:00:19 PM
 #864

wrong, you are not the new elite, you are the old elite. noone who is poor could have ever afforded to mine or buy bitcoins or any other cryptocurrency. its a wealthy-people-thing only.

I am essentially destitute. I mine. I am supplementing my income with my miner.

Try again. Try harder.

Buy Bitcoins with Paypal, Credit card, or other methods. Send me a PM or a text to 208-451-2665.
Erdogan
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February 19, 2014, 01:31:48 AM
 #865


in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.


Looks like you have been ethically lobotomized. Is it your ideology to take the place in the queue behind 7 billion others? That helps neither yourself nor the 7 billion.

So get out there, hands out of your pockets, cut your hair, and get some coinz. In 3 years, you can always donate a million PC's to the poor if you feel the need for it.
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February 19, 2014, 01:39:53 AM
 #866


in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.


Looks like you have been ethically lobotomized. Is it your ideology to take the place in the queue behind 7 billion others? That helps neither yourself nor the 7 billion.

So get out there, hands out of your pockets, cut your hair, and get some coinz. In 3 years, you can always donate a million PC's to the poor if you feel the need for it.

Better yet, if were to pursue his own devoid logic reductio ad absurdum, he should just kill himself now so that another starving mouth may feed.

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February 19, 2014, 01:41:42 AM
 #867


in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.


Looks like you have been ethically lobotomized. Is it your ideology to take the place in the queue behind 7 billion others? That helps neither yourself nor the 7 billion.

So get out there, hands out of your pockets, cut your hair, and get some coinz. In 3 years, you can always donate a million PC's to the poor if you feel the need for it.
nah, don't cut your hair. Long haired freaky people will one day rule the world!

Joking aside, I agree.

Buy Bitcoins with Paypal, Credit card, or other methods. Send me a PM or a text to 208-451-2665.
salstimda
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February 19, 2014, 01:44:02 AM
 #868

Oh, someone has a different opinion than you do? Must be a troll. Turn on Ignore-Mode! *LALALALALALALALA*

Quote
in all seriousness, i don't see the point in providing banking for people who can't even afford food. please explain to me.

Quote
Andreas Antonopolous talks about the opportunity for "banking" services opening up doors for the 3rd World in many of his talks.

Quote
He seems like a very smart guy to me, But im not gonna google to find some alleged arguments that he made for the sake of this discussion...you have to realize this is a bit ridiculous. either post the argument here, or let it be.

Quote
I remember a few arguments he made alongside "people save fees if they send money back home to their families" and something like people could use cellphones and sms for obtaining bitcoins and so on, but this all just affects people who already are doing well enough to afford a cellphone and its fees, and of course all food and shelter, or they probably wouldn't get a cellphone. So it's not really about the majority of people who are starving. that was my point - maybe in some circumstances it would help some people, but i don't really see any great solutions of big problems there...but of course i might have missed something. im far from beeing an expert on this topic aswell.

The reason people refer to you as a troll is that you find exceptions with everything, and keep the argument going. There is no response that will ever make you say "Oh.  Yeah.  Good point." and get up from your computer and walk away.  Certain people just morph the argument into 900 other topics, as you negate each of their misconceptions.  Thats when people like BitChick "bow out".  It becomes a fruitless endeavour.  You should recognize this about yourself maybe, and adjust how you debate/disagree with things.

To answer your question, Andreas has pointed out that even the poorest people in Africa with no running water, have satellite dishes on their mud huts.  Apparently they save forever to buy one, which powers their cell phone and updates it.  And no.  Cell service is not $99 a month like it is here in the USA.  :-/  Their cell phone enables them to transact money and carry out communication with the rest of their world.  Its that important.  These same cell phones which are currently using a text service to send and receive funds, can be used with Bitcoin.  

There are 2 companies in africa right now working to build Bitcoin texting services.  Your question was, why is this relevant to poor people, to have banking opportunities?  As per Andreas, it opens up a whole new world of investing, saving, appreciation in value, transferring of funds, and participation on the world stage that they never had before.  Sure, some will do nothing with that.  Others who are poor but still brilliant, will see the immense opportunities in having access to these things, and will literally build businesses and transform their lives.  And yes, the remittances market is a hundreds-million dollar market that Bitcoin will assuredly take over.  Western union charges the poorest people in the poorest countries the highest fees to send money home to family.  $40 on a $100 transfer sometimes.  Having that $40 available to the family instead, times millions of families, can singlehandedly pump hundreds of millions of dollars back to the poorest people on the planet.  The list goes on and on.  

I would advise you to stop being lazy about your education on Bitcoin, and spend the next week listening to *every* speech from Andreas Antonopoulos on youtube.  Specifically the Joe Rogan one, which is 3 hours long.  If you don't have the energy or interest, then be aware that you are missing about 95% of the pertinent information on the topic you're debating.  

-B-

funny how you first claim "this is why people call you a troll" and in the next paragraphs you are basically just repeating what i said.

i have already seen the joe rogan podcast with antonpoulos...not that i would take serious any suggestions from people who are just repeating what i said after calling me a troll, but still, just for your information, i have already seen it. considering you are just repeating what i was saying, i guess you are not even as educated on the topic of crytocurrencies as i am (although im surely not very educated).

if you have a hard time understanding what i am writing, just leave it at that, don't try to "educate" me by parroting my own words.
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February 19, 2014, 04:08:54 AM
 #869

I like looking back to the beginning posts of this thread a few years ago...  It's super cool to see how everything has evolved so much in a short period of time..
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February 19, 2014, 07:20:31 AM
 #870

2018 $18,000 (US votes for BitCoin backed Dollar)

As in "The FED announces it has all USD backed by 18kUSD BTCs"? Do the math how far off you are even if they had 21 million bitcoin by that date. That would put US M1 to 21MɃ * 18k$/Ƀ = 378G$ << 2.7T$

Good point math champ!  Question then, if BitCoin were to replace 100% of the world's fiat tomorrow, how much would 1BTC be worth in USD?

Define the world's fiat and do the math yourself.

Wow, yea, I don't know how to define the world's fiat. Just focusing on the current US currency in circulation is the first and easier step.   Or I guess looking at each individual economy/market that could be replaced with the functionality of bitcoin is another way to asses it's future value.  Anyway, the current total US currency, is $10.5T. Total world currency is at $105T as of 2013.    So simply replacing the entire world currency with Bitcoin, today, would basically make each bitcoin around $8,500,000.000.  This doesn't account for the massive increase in efficiency over fiat, the savings in printing money, disposing of it, handling at POS (point of sale), etc.  

So let's take a wild stab in the dark, and say that in 20 years half of the world's currency is based on BitCoin, with inflation, and in 2034, there will be approx 18M BitCoins in "circulation," each BitCoin would be worth $2,700,000.00.  So I revise my long term prediction to $2.7M by 2034, and since I will be 58 years old, I should only need to keep 1BTC to retire with  Grin

We could add the business of remittances to the value in the short term but would need to see Western Union begin to decay and start losing revenue before.  Their earnings came out last week and they reported flat year over year and predicted the same for this year.  During an interview with CEO of WU on CNBC he said they were open to the utilization of BitCoin as soon as it is "regulated."  I won't try and reinvent the wheel, this recent article in Fortune really does a fair job of determining a near term value, $50,000?

"We have the power to begin the world over again" - Thomas Paine
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February 19, 2014, 07:23:13 AM
 #871

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February 19, 2014, 01:35:46 PM
 #872

http://astrohacker.com/ahc/bitcoin-is-the-economic-singularity/

After reading this, the scale of black market and digital economies and the effect Bitcoin will have on them I am pretty certain we are going to be very wealthy men -- even with a sum as small as 10 Bitcoins. It's just so hard to believe. We are only in the beginning storms with these significant rallies from 10 to 20 dollars. I will not be surprised to see prices from hundreds to thousands in the coming months.

The world just isn't going to be the same and we have been blessed as the pioneers.

What are you going to do with your Bitcoin wealth once your coins hit upwards of $10,000 a pop?
We need a lot of confidence to beleave it now.

The thing is that it keeps being repeated at least since US dollar parity - "its a bubble, it won't last, correction incoming, it will never be as high as $10/$3/$1/$266/$1200/$0.10 again."  IF bitcoin succeeds the price will be huge - it is something if a binary proposition either lots of success meaning very high price or poof.  Given Silicon Valley and Wall Street's endorsements via investment, bitcoin's success becomes more likely each day.
 Smiley
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February 19, 2014, 06:41:25 PM
 #873

http://astrohacker.com/ahc/bitcoin-is-the-economic-singularity/

After reading this, the scale of black market and digital economies and the effect Bitcoin will have on them I am pretty certain we are going to be very wealthy men -- even with a sum as small as 10 Bitcoins. It's just so hard to believe. We are only in the beginning storms with these significant rallies from 10 to 20 dollars. I will not be surprised to see prices from hundreds to thousands in the coming months.

The world just isn't going to be the same and we have been blessed as the pioneers.

What are you going to do with your Bitcoin wealth once your coins hit upwards of $10,000 a pop?
We need a lot of confidence to beleave it now.

The thing is that it keeps being repeated at least since US dollar parity - "its a bubble, it won't last, correction incoming, it will never be as high as $10/$3/$1/$266/$1200/$0.10 again."  IF bitcoin succeeds the price will be huge - it is something if a binary proposition either lots of success meaning very high price or poof.  Given Silicon Valley and Wall Street's endorsements via investment, bitcoin's success becomes more likely each day.
 Smiley

I firmly believe that bitcoin's success is inevitable at this point.   I just think that it is on a longer time frame than most people expect and hope...
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February 19, 2014, 07:14:36 PM
 #874

http://astrohacker.com/ahc/bitcoin-is-the-economic-singularity/

After reading this, the scale of black market and digital economies and the effect Bitcoin will have on them I am pretty certain we are going to be very wealthy men -- even with a sum as small as 10 Bitcoins. It's just so hard to believe. We are only in the beginning storms with these significant rallies from 10 to 20 dollars. I will not be surprised to see prices from hundreds to thousands in the coming months.

The world just isn't going to be the same and we have been blessed as the pioneers.

What are you going to do with your Bitcoin wealth once your coins hit upwards of $10,000 a pop?
We need a lot of confidence to beleave it now.

The thing is that it keeps being repeated at least since US dollar parity - "its a bubble, it won't last, correction incoming, it will never be as high as $10/$3/$1/$266/$1200/$0.10 again."  IF bitcoin succeeds the price will be huge - it is something if a binary proposition either lots of success meaning very high price or poof.  Given Silicon Valley and Wall Street's endorsements via investment, bitcoin's success becomes more likely each day.
 Smiley

I firmly believe that bitcoin's success is inevitable at this point.   I just think that it is on a longer time frame than most people expect and hope...

I guess time will tell.  ;-)   In an ideal world, 2014 will lead to lots of adoption, the W-Twins ETF launching, and consequent price increases, but I'm not counting on anything.
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February 19, 2014, 07:54:32 PM
 #875

http://astrohacker.com/ahc/bitcoin-is-the-economic-singularity/

After reading this, the scale of black market and digital economies and the effect Bitcoin will have on them I am pretty certain we are going to be very wealthy men -- even with a sum as small as 10 Bitcoins. It's just so hard to believe. We are only in the beginning storms with these significant rallies from 10 to 20 dollars. I will not be surprised to see prices from hundreds to thousands in the coming months.

The world just isn't going to be the same and we have been blessed as the pioneers.

What are you going to do with your Bitcoin wealth once your coins hit upwards of $10,000 a pop?

May i ask how you make your name or bitcointalk id looks like that ?
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February 19, 2014, 08:09:39 PM
 #876

I have to get my fist one. Not even close at the moment but I'm not giving up. After I get my first one I hope I can somehow manage to 10, but I doubt it.

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February 19, 2014, 08:24:16 PM
 #877

I have to get my fist one. Not even close at the moment but I'm not giving up. After I get my first one I hope I can somehow manage to 10, but I doubt it.

your're trying to get your first one what?  of btc?
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February 19, 2014, 08:26:59 PM
 #878

http://astrohacker.com/ahc/bitcoin-is-the-economic-singularity/

After reading this, the scale of black market and digital economies and the effect Bitcoin will have on them I am pretty certain we are going to be very wealthy men -- even with a sum as small as 10 Bitcoins. It's just so hard to believe. We are only in the beginning storms with these significant rallies from 10 to 20 dollars. I will not be surprised to see prices from hundreds to thousands in the coming months.

The world just isn't going to be the same and we have been blessed as the pioneers.

What are you going to do with your Bitcoin wealth once your coins hit upwards of $10,000 a pop?
We need a lot of confidence to beleave it now.

The thing is that it keeps being repeated at least since US dollar parity - "its a bubble, it won't last, correction incoming, it will never be as high as $10/$3/$1/$266/$1200/$0.10 again."  IF bitcoin succeeds the price will be huge - it is something if a binary proposition either lots of success meaning very high price or poof.  Given Silicon Valley and Wall Street's endorsements via investment, bitcoin's success becomes more likely each day.
 Smiley

I firmly believe that bitcoin's success is inevitable at this point.   I just think that it is on a longer time frame than most people expect and hope...

I guess time will tell.  ;-)   In an ideal world, 2014 will lead to lots of adoption, the W-Twins ETF launching, and consequent price increases, but I'm not counting on anything.

I'm not counting on anything either, but one thing is for sure, the invention of the bitcoin protocol cannot be undone.  It is here to stay Smiley.   Just the feature of the significantly lower transaction fees is enough to really push mainstream adoption forward.    All the negative press lately sucks, but with anything new and innovative there are always going to be a fair share of haters...
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February 19, 2014, 08:28:10 PM
 #879

I like looking back to the beginning posts of this thread a few years ago...  It's super cool to see how everything has evolved so much in a short period of time..
Yeah i was looking the same, what a journey it is till now..! lets see how far it goes..

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February 19, 2014, 08:29:36 PM
 #880

http://astrohacker.com/ahc/bitcoin-is-the-economic-singularity/

After reading this, the scale of black market and digital economies and the effect Bitcoin will have on them I am pretty certain we are going to be very wealthy men -- even with a sum as small as 10 Bitcoins. It's just so hard to believe. We are only in the beginning storms with these significant rallies from 10 to 20 dollars. I will not be surprised to see prices from hundreds to thousands in the coming months.

The world just isn't going to be the same and we have been blessed as the pioneers.

What are you going to do with your Bitcoin wealth once your coins hit upwards of $10,000 a pop?
We need a lot of confidence to beleave it now.

The thing is that it keeps being repeated at least since US dollar parity - "its a bubble, it won't last, correction incoming, it will never be as high as $10/$3/$1/$266/$1200/$0.10 again."  IF bitcoin succeeds the price will be huge - it is something if a binary proposition either lots of success meaning very high price or poof.  Given Silicon Valley and Wall Street's endorsements via investment, bitcoin's success becomes more likely each day.
 Smiley

I firmly believe that bitcoin's success is inevitable at this point.   I just think that it is on a longer time frame than most people expect and hope...

I guess time will tell.  ;-)   In an ideal world, 2014 will lead to lots of adoption, the W-Twins ETF launching, and consequent price increases, but I'm not counting on anything.
Winklevoss lawyer said that the ETF is 99.9% not going to happen this year, sadly.  2015 is probably a good target date though.

I'm actually betting that Paypal will implement Bitcoin this year.
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