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[jwinterm]

I'm afraid that some IRC from a "fluffypony" isn't acceptable as "proof" to myself (please hire an actual lawyer if you want to convince me).

We'll see what happens in regards to the poll but if Qora goes Azure then AT development (from CIYAM) will be ceased.

* jwinterm considers adding Qora to Azure just to troll CIYAM...

[1714247054]

1714247054

[CIYAM]

* jwinterm considers adding Qora to Azure just to troll CIYAM...

It really doesn't bother me to move AT development elsewhere (it has happened before).

Also - from a marketing point of view once it has become public knowledge that "scam coins" are on Azure then I don't think it is going to be such a benefit (and in fact Microsoft may end up being embarrassed).

[fher98]

Important Announcement: Poll created for Qora's Potential Involvement in Microsoft Azure BaaS Program

Please be advised that a poll has been created by Skerberus in regard to Qora's involvement in Microsoft's Azure Blockchain As a Service Program (BaaS).  This will most likely affect the value of your investment, so we'd highly encourage the whole community to participate!  The outcome of this poll will decide whether we will apply to join the program or not.

Azure Poll (You can access the decentralized voting system inside your Qora client by going to the Voting tab): http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?poll=%20do%20you%20want%20qora%20to%20join%20microsoft%20azure%20baas%3F

In a nutshell, MS Azure BaaS platform is the cloud computing/deployment platform designed specifically for blockchain-as-a-service (BaaS) purpose. By deploying the blockchain on Azure, it would be easier for potential developers and companies to interact and experiment with the blockchain, and create custom apps on top of the platform using existing MS technologies.
 
PROs:

1. By joining the program, we will be able to reach institutions and enterprises (banks, accounting firms.. etc) who otherwise will not be interested in learning and working with Qora.  In other words, we will be able to reach audience outside of current Crypto community.

2. Microsoft will soon offer "Azure Blockchain Marketplace" with rigorous certification process (security vetting conducted by Microsoft). This is the kind of recognition we need.

3. Azure has tools that'll make building/deploying new Blockchain technologies much easier: check out https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/devtest-lab/

4. Developers with no previous exposure to Crytocurrency and Blockchain Technologies will be able to interact/experiment with Qora utilizing existing Microsoft Technologies.

5. Big-name coins like Ethereum are already on it.

CONs:

1. Because of copyright and patent agreements that must be signed as part of the application process, NO Clones of qora or any derivative works based on Qora can be made.  For those of you who wish to be part of CIYAM's new Blockchain, you will be disppointed.  

2. A licensing contract that involves patent and distribution rights has to be signed before being accepted into the program. 

3. The contract cannot be annulled once joined.  


---------------------------------------------------

The Poll will run for 2 weeks and close on April 15th.  Feel free to add to my list of Pros and Cons as you see fit. Happy Voting!  

I agree theres a lot to be won in this venture, so ill guess we should join, but after the next big Qora release. Why? Because if the community will lose its right to the software (aka proprietary M$ bullcrap) this will give the oportunity to fork and build on the new services.

Also on building different software/brand/blockchain for new services, IMHO this should come to a vote too. thanks

[fher98]

Hello,

Im having a lot of disconnects with the Win and Uni wallets on Win7. Is there any way I can forge from a linux terminal?

[reader31]

There is no way MS could claim any dominion over code that has already been distributed with an MIT license, even if all contributors to Qora agreed to change the license at the time of signing on to Azure service.

Whilst I don't doubt that Microsoft would lose any lawsuit over a clone prior to the change of license that certainly doesn't mean that they wouldn't try it and my point was the bug fixes made after the change of license could not be applied to the clones (unless written in a different manner which is another potential lawsuit).

Microsoft (and other such companies) spend many millions per year on lawyers and are always in court and quite simply CIYAM does not have the funds to be involved in any lawsuit with the likes of them.

Personally I would hope that the Qora team come up with the funds to retain ownership of the IP if they decide to go down this path.

Agreed If we end up joining the M$ program...then we should crowdfund and pay to join...

[Ayle56]

There is no way MS could claim any dominion over code that has already been distributed with an MIT license, even if all contributors to Qora agreed to change the license at the time of signing on to Azure service.

Whilst I don't doubt that Microsoft would lose any lawsuit over a clone prior to the change of license that certainly doesn't mean that they wouldn't try it and my point was the bug fixes made after the change of license could not be applied to the clones (unless written in a different manner which is another potential lawsuit).

Microsoft (and other such companies) spend many millions per year on lawyers and are always in court and quite simply CIYAM does not have the funds to be involved in any lawsuit with the likes of them.

Personally I would hope that the Qora team come up with the funds to retain ownership of the IP if they decide to go down this path.

Agreed If we end up joining the M$ program...then we should crowdfund and pay to join...

I don't know much about Azure, or if I've got my facts straight, but IMO it doesn't seem very expensive to join.

This page says it costs ~$13.392/month to join for the cheapest subscription price, although there is tiered pricing all the way up to ~$725.4/month.

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/marketplace/partners/docker/docker-subscription-for-azure/

We should be able to crowdfund enough for the $13.392/month subscription.

[GoldenKnight369]

Thank you so much for the chat transcript and explanation!  Having talked with a few people who are familiar with Ethereum and Factom's Azure situation, I would agree the whole deal with copyright has been overblown. I'd also say that I would trust Ethereum devs' evaluation more than NEM at this point.

I talked to fluffypony about it (because Monero was recently added to Azure, so he just went through the process). Here is what he had to say:

[08:35:48] <jwinterm> fluffypony: what did you have to sign for MS azure integration?
[08:38:26] <jwinterm> It basically consisted of signing a Contributor License Agreement, submitting a PR to the Azure templates Github repo, and sending them a write-up.
[08:39:05] <jwinterm> CLA agreement publicly available?
[08:42:20] <fluffypony> jwinterm: yes, I think
[08:42:27] <fluffypony> https://cla.azure.com has it, I think
[08:42:38] <grubles> azure integration?
[08:43:06] <fluffypony> grubles: https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/azure-blockchain-update-7/
[08:43:14] <othe> jwinterm on azure? pump pump
[08:43:27] <jwinterm> just curious
[08:43:35] <jwinterm> ciyam is on the qora thread talking about MS getting IP rights
[08:43:48] <grubles> fluffypony: oh nice!
[08:43:51] <jwinterm> about how if qora gets on ms azure then ms will own all IP related to qora
[08:44:20] <fluffypony> the license only covers the code you submit to the Azure Github repo
[08:44:34] <fluffypony> for obvious reasons you have to sign that before they'll merge it
[08:44:48] <fluffypony> so it's just the install script and a README, in our case
[08:45:02] <fluffypony> but literally anyone can submit the PR and sign the CLA
[08:45:08] <fluffypony> I can go and put Qora on there and he can't stop me
[08:45:14] <othe> yeah one person did that for 5 coins...
[08:45:26] <jwinterm> anyway, thanks for explanation
[08:46:08] <grubles> is bitcoin on azure?
[08:46:16] <lsd25> Heyyyyyy
[08:46:20] <grubles> i can't find any info
[08:46:21] <jwinterm> I don't think so, maybe bitpay, grubles
[08:46:34] <moneromooo> That site seems to want my github password before it lets me see anything... Fishy.
[08:46:46] <fluffypony> http://windowsazure.github.io/docs/Contribution%20License%20Agreement.pdf
[08:46:47] <fluffypony> foudn it
[08:46:47] <othe> no but u can just make your own template for that, its basically just a shell script that runs on the first start
[08:46:48] <fluffypony> *found
[08:47:11] <fluffypony> it only covers the contribution you make to their Github repo
[08:47:25] <grubles> othe: similar to user data for AWS?

Relevant portion of conversation bolded. So, the only code that you are giving over to MS is the install script that will go on their github repo. I hope this clears up any confusion about whether MS would have any claim on any Qora copyrights or other IP.

[GoldenKnight369]

In case anyone wishes to monitor the progress of "Azure poll", you can find the poll here: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?poll=%20do%20you%20want%20qora%20to%20join%20microsoft%20azure%20baas%3F

As it currently stands, it's 70.76% vs 29.24% in favor of signing on to the Azure BaaS program.

As it's a community decision that will affect Qora's future, I'd urge every stakeholder to withdraw your qora from the exchanges and participate in the vote.  

Thanks everyone for your participation.  

[x13]

Aha, and what makes you sure? As far as I can see, the current poll is going to a different direction. Most are voting for joining Azure platform.

I would hope that if Qora decides to go down the path of giving up its rights to Microsoft that they first remove AT from the software as I will never agree for Microsoft to have any IP rights of AT (which was invented by myself and coded entirely by CIYAM Developers).

So to be clear - there will be no assistance for the AT code in Qora from the CIYAM Developers once any such change of software license has occurred.

Don't be worry, qora won't join MIcrosoft.

[xyz]

Aha, and what makes you sure? As far as I can see, the current poll is going to a different direction. Most are voting for joining Azure platform.

I would hope that if Qora decides to go down the path of giving up its rights to Microsoft that they first remove AT from the software as I will never agree for Microsoft to have any IP rights of AT (which was invented by myself and coded entirely by CIYAM Developers).

So to be clear - there will be no assistance for the AT code in Qora from the CIYAM Developers once any such change of software license has occurred.

Don't be worry, qora won't join MIcrosoft.

If only YOU would change your vote the poll would give a different picture! What makes you NOW sure a YES is the best for Qora?

[GoldenKnight369]

To Qora Community: I'd highly encourage everyone to read today's news article "Microsoft, Major Banks Strike Blockchain Deal" featured on CNBC, a major US-based news outlet:

In case you haven't read today's news, Ethereum and Ripple were featured in a news article on CNBC (a major news outlet in the USA) because they were part of MS Azure BaaS program. The news article was featured on the front page of the CNBC for most of the day.

You can read about the news report here:

Microsoft, Major Banks Strike Blockchain Deal
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/04/microsoft-major-banks-strike-blockchain-deal.html

Please pay attention to the last paragraph:

R3 and its members will have access to Microsoft's blockchain partners which includes the likes of start-ups Ethereum and Ripple. .

As I mentioned in my post, we will be able to reach major corporations, banks, and other institutional players by getting on Azure. Also, by getting on Azure, we will have a lot more chance to get picked up by major news outlets like CNBC and get the press time and recognition we deserve.

Having said that, I recognize this is a decision that must be made by the entire community because this move will affect the value of all your investment. Therefore, I'd like to take this opportunity and urge everyone to withdraw your Qora from the exchanges and participate in the vote.

You can participate in the poll by casting your vote via the decentralized voting system in Qora client (Voting tab), and you can monitor the progress of the poll here: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?poll=%20do%20you%20want%20qora%20to%20join%20microsoft%20azure%20baas%3F

As mentioned previously, the poll will run for 2 weeks and close on 15th of April. You, as a Qora holder, now have a chance to direct the destiny of Qora, so please vote confidently. Happy voting, everyone!

[Nxtblg]

To Qora Community: I'd highly encourage everyone to read today's news article "Microsoft, Major Banks Strike Blockchain Deal" featured on CNBC, a major US-based news outlet:

Jeez Louise...Marc Andreessen was right when he predicted that crptocurrency - "blockchain" - would become mainstreamed like the Internet in the 1990s.

There's even the same transformation from a proper noun to a buzzword, just like the answer-gal's use of "Internet" in that 1994 Today show segment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAV2Gjkhztg

[MadCow]

As I mentioned in my post, we will be able to reach major corporations, banks, and other institutional players by getting on Azure. Also, by getting on Azure, we will have a lot more chance to get picked up by major news outlets like CNBC and get the press time and recognition we deserve.

Having said that, I recognize this is a decision that must be made by the entire community because this move will affect the value of all your investment. Therefore, I'd like to take this opportunity and urge everyone to withdraw your Qora from the exchanges and participate in the vote.

You can participate in the poll by casting your vote via the decentralized voting system in Qora client (Voting tab), and you can monitor the progress of the poll here: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?poll=%20do%20you%20want%20qora%20to%20join%20microsoft%20azure%20baas%3F

As mentioned previously, the poll will run for 2 weeks and close on 15th of April. You, as a Qora holder, now have a chance to direct the destiny of Qora, so please vote confidently. Happy voting, everyone!

It's so great the Qora coin holders have the chance to vote on this MAJOR issue. Ask yourself this, if Qora gets into 'bed' with MS & Azure, do you think Microsoft will let us 'vote' on other important issues? NO, of course not, they will want to control things their way, and in any disputes they'll bully Qora community into getting whatever they want.

Microsoft does not care about decentralisation, so vote NO, and keep Qora independent!

[jwinterm]

As I mentioned in my post, we will be able to reach major corporations, banks, and other institutional players by getting on Azure. Also, by getting on Azure, we will have a lot more chance to get picked up by major news outlets like CNBC and get the press time and recognition we deserve.

Having said that, I recognize this is a decision that must be made by the entire community because this move will affect the value of all your investment. Therefore, I'd like to take this opportunity and urge everyone to withdraw your Qora from the exchanges and participate in the vote.

You can participate in the poll by casting your vote via the decentralized voting system in Qora client (Voting tab), and you can monitor the progress of the poll here: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?poll=%20do%20you%20want%20qora%20to%20join%20microsoft%20azure%20baas%3F

As mentioned previously, the poll will run for 2 weeks and close on 15th of April. You, as a Qora holder, now have a chance to direct the destiny of Qora, so please vote confidently. Happy voting, everyone!

It's so great the Qora coin holders have the chance to vote on this MAJOR issue. Ask yourself this, if Qora gets into 'bed' with MS & Azure, do you think Microsoft will let us 'vote' on other important issues? NO, of course not, they will want to control things their way, and in any disputes they'll bully Qora community into getting whatever they want.

Microsoft does not care about decentralisation, so vote NO, and keep Qora independent!

What the everloving fuck are you talking about? What's with all the fear-mongering and tinfoil hat talk about M$ taking over Qora and controlling future development? First off, Microsoft doesn't give one or two shits about Qora. Second, there is absolutely no control handed over to Microsoft for getting Qora added as a BaaS; they get rights over what you put on their github repo and servers, i.e. a script that sets up Qora and starts syncing the blockchain. Third, if you're going to make outrageous claims, at least provide some evidence; all the people on this thread shouting about turning control over to Microsoft have supplied exactly zero relevant links backing up their (outrageous) claims of Microsoft pursuing control or adversarial legal action against Qora.

I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, and I don't care one way or another whether Qora gets added to the Azure BaaS system, but can you guys with the crazy conspiracy theories provide a little bit of evidence as to what the fuck you're actually concerned about?

[elevenbill]

@jwinterm  It's a concern about IP ownership if you missed the previous posts.  There is also no evidence to the contrary.

[yns1971]

yes 64.66%
No  35.33%

[GoldenKnight369]

Jeez Louise...Marc Andreessen was right when he predicted that crptocurrency - "blockchain" - would become mainstreamed like the Internet in the 1990s.

Guys,

As Nxtblg has already stated, "going mainstream" and "getting mainstream recognition" are the keywords here. It's my personal belief that we're at a stage of development when "not joining the big players means we'll be left behind and late to the game."

As for all the copyright, future-of-development issues, I'm leaning towards what jwinterm has said: all those talks of Microsoft taking control of Qora is a non-issue and not credible. If Microsoft really wants to "steal" Qora technologies (think of all those Linux clones), they can simply create a derivative coin based on Qora (Qora clone) and start from scratch. If big-name Cryptos like Ethereum, Ripple, Bitshare, and Monero have all decided to join, why shouldn't we?   We'd want to be on the same level playing field, aren't we?

Ask yourself this: Do we have a larger user base than those coins or a larger market cap? The answer is definitely NO.   That's why we want to take advantage of Microsoft's intiative and reach a wider audience that we will otherwise not be able to reach as a small-time Crypto project. That's how we take Qora to the next level: we need the publicity and free press that come with being certified.

So far, I haven't seen any concrete evidence that would suggest Microsoft's aim is to entrap, take control, and direct future development of any Crypto project. I personally believe that their main goal is to jumpstart their "BlockChain Marketplace" and become the market leader in Blockchain-related technologies.

In this case, we should go with the "flow" rather than fight the "trend."

This is my opinion on this matter. Thank you!

[jwinterm]

@jwinterm  It's a concern about IP ownership if you missed the previous posts.  There is also no evidence to the contrary.

Look on the previous page or two of this thread. There's no evidence that Microsoft is trying to acquire IP ownership and plenty of evidence to the contrary. In fact, I posted the actual contributor license agreement if you'd care to take a look at the actual agreement rather than just listen to random internet people spew conspiracy theories.

[elevenbill]

fair enough

FWIW - I voted no.  Tech development on the coin must continue.  Qora will need CIYAM backing if we want long term potential.  MS Azure equates to a pump and dump IMO.  It will shift the focus from coin development to marketing.  It will only work in the short term.

[CoinJuggler]

I agree with Goldenknight.

 We are better off riding than we are smashing this big wave. I also think the Microsoft tin hat stuff is way off base. These are the markets that crypto have made -- not the other way around.

This is free publicity in a big market, you could come out with a statement declaring your own direction and if they end up dropping you whatever, people will dig that publicity too.