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[jwinterm]

Please feel free to continue with your insane ramblings at this time...

If Qora was not rescued by @Vrontis and the CIYAM Developers we wouldn't even be having this discussion (the coin would have already died).

So if you want to start calling me names then don't be surprised if I simply decide to no longer care about the project (insulting the people that made you money is not generally considered a wise move).

As soon as the public realise that the AT support has gone then Qora will die - so better do your pump and dump quickly.

If you didn't realise it I own *zero* QORA and so I simply would not be affected if its value went to zero.

I didn't call you names. I only added the insane ramblings bit because you were subtly accusing me of working for Microsoft, which is, frankly, insane. I don't care what you've done for Qora, I don't care if you continue, and I also don't hold very much Qora, it just bugs me to see people continually regurgitating outlandish theories in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Edit:
Here's the template you fill out and submit to them:
https://github.com/Azure/azure-blockchain-projects/tree/master/baas-template
This is all the code that you send, plus a readme file.

Here's the bitshares repo:
https://github.com/Azure/azure-quickstart-templates/tree/master/bitshares-ubuntu-vm
I'm sure Dan and Stan were happy to sign away all their rights to bitshares, right?

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[CIYAM]

I think you should watch the documentary about what Microsoft did to Netscape before you post anything else (maybe that was before you were born?).

Microsoft have always been anti-open source and have always used copyright and patents as their main "weapon" of choice (as do other such corporations).

To call that "insane ramblings" just shows your incredible amount of ignorance and/or naivety.

Bitshares is a get rich quick scheme (as are most of the other projects in this area unfortunately) so that doesn't make a good example at all.

If you're not trying to "get rich quick" then why on earth are you so supportive of signing up with Microsoft?

[jwinterm]

I think you should watch the documentary about what Microsoft did to Netscape before you post anything else (maybe that was before you were born?).

Microsoft have always been anti-open source and have always used copyright and patents as their main "weapon" of choice (as do other such corporations).

To call that "insane ramblings" just shows your incredible amount of ignorance and/or naivety.

You're willfully ignoring the fact that the only code you submit to them, and thus the only code that is covered by the two page license agreement, is modifying a json template and adding a readme. I added the template and a bitshares example above.

[CIYAM]

You're willfully ignoring the fact that the only code you submit to them, and thus the only code that is covered by the two page license agreement, is modifying a json template and adding a readme. I added the template and a bitshares example above.

Again - just because Bitshares does something doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do.

BTW - if you have hardly any Qora and you don't give a fuck - why are you still posting?

(odd behaviour to say the least)

[eli_lyd1]

You're willfully ignoring the fact that the only code you submit to them, and thus the only code that is covered by the two page license agreement, is modifying a json template and adding a readme. I added the template and a bitshares example above.

Again - just because Bitshares does something doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do.

BTW - if you have hardly any Qora and you don't give a fuck - why are you still posting?

Yes, I agree. If the qora community keep support add qora to MS, I will stop support the qora-wallet. I am the author of https://github.com/soliury/qora-wallet

[kjadB]

I vote 'no' to Azure, there's no point, it's not worth the risk IMO

[wizzardTim]

Bter still does not show my old deposit (5million - address http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QNweiL91zLU7v8yw2G3XGkR9pd6zokQTTL) . My balance was transferred yesterday (not by me!) to this address: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QXNz5kBknsgNYtRKit4jCDNVm7YYoXLZdB

Is bter working right to all of you?

[eli_lyd1]

Bter still does not show my old deposit (5million - address http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QNweiL91zLU7v8yw2G3XGkR9pd6zokQTTL) . My balance was transferred yesterday (not by me!) to this address: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QXNz5kBknsgNYtRKit4jCDNVm7YYoXLZdB

Is bter working right to all of you?

It works well for me.

[kjadB]

Bter still does not show my old deposit (5million - address http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QNweiL91zLU7v8yw2G3XGkR9pd6zokQTTL) . My balance was transferred yesterday (not by me!) to this address: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QXNz5kBknsgNYtRKit4jCDNVm7YYoXLZdB

Is bter working right to all of you?

BTER hasn't worked for me with Qora for months! I think you've lost those coins Tim

[jwinterm]

You're willfully ignoring the fact that the only code you submit to them, and thus the only code that is covered by the two page license agreement, is modifying a json template and adding a readme. I added the template and a bitshares example above.

Again - just because Bitshares does something doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do.

I don't understand how you don't understand this, but I'll try one last time. Let's take the Bitshares Azure repo for example:
https://github.com/Azure/azure-quickstart-templates/tree/master/bitshares-ubuntu-vm

The only code that the Larimers or someone acting on their behalf submitted was a modified json template file, a readme, and a build_bitshares.sh script, which installs a bunch of dependencies, clones the Bitshares repo, and builds Bitshares from source. They never submitted any actual Bitshares code to get on Azure, it's just a script that clones their repo and builds it from source. The only "code" which the license agreement signatory is giving to Microsoft is the build script. I'm not sure how you can't see that by looking at a short two-page license agreement and an actual example repo. (Besides the fact that the Larimers run their blockchain like a corporation and they probably did run the whole process by a lawyer or a few.)

I'll say it again, I don't care if Qora gets on Azure, I don't think it matters much either way, but the idea that if it does go up on Azure that Microsoft is going to somehow own or exercise control over future development of Qora is just unsupported by reality.

[wizzardTim]

Bter still does not show my old deposit (5million - address http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QNweiL91zLU7v8yw2G3XGkR9pd6zokQTTL) . My balance was transferred yesterday (not by me!) to this address: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QXNz5kBknsgNYtRKit4jCDNVm7YYoXLZdB

Is bter working right to all of you?

BTER hasn't worked for me with Qora for months! I think you've lost those coins Tim

I was informed from some members that their balances started to show right. Sad that's not the case for me..

[CIYAM]

I'll say it again, I don't care if Qora gets on Azure, I don't think it matters much either way, but the idea that if it does go up on Azure that Microsoft is going to somehow own or exercise control over future development of Qora is just unsupported by reality.

And I'll say this just once (as I don't need to repeat myself unlike you).

Why would MS bother to enforce you to make an agreement that just gives them ownership of a README file and an installation script?

And how do you think MS is going to profit from this?
(or do you think they are offering free cloud services from the good of their heart)

And again (this part I will repeat) you say you have virtually no Qora and you don't care - but here you are posting again in support of Azure - why?

[kjadB]

Bter still does not show my old deposit (5million - address http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QNweiL91zLU7v8yw2G3XGkR9pd6zokQTTL) . My balance was transferred yesterday (not by me!) to this address: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QXNz5kBknsgNYtRKit4jCDNVm7YYoXLZdB

Is bter working right to all of you?

BTER hasn't worked for me with Qora for months! I think you've lost those coins Tim

I was informed from some members that their balances started to show right. Sad that's not the case for me..

I didn't know some people had some joy with BTER finally, I might take a look. Hopefully there's some a delay with your tx

[wizzardTim]

Bter still does not show my old deposit (5million - address http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QNweiL91zLU7v8yw2G3XGkR9pd6zokQTTL) . My balance was transferred yesterday (not by me!) to this address: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QXNz5kBknsgNYtRKit4jCDNVm7YYoXLZdB

Is bter working right to all of you?

BTER hasn't worked for me with Qora for months! I think you've lost those coins Tim

I was informed from some members that their balances started to show right. Sad that's not the case for me..

I didn't know some people had some joy with BTER finally, I might take a look. Hopefully there's some a delay with your tx

That's what I hope..we'll see.

[jwinterm]

I'll say it again, I don't care if Qora gets on Azure, I don't think it matters much either way, but the idea that if it does go up on Azure that Microsoft is going to somehow own or exercise control over future development of Qora is just unsupported by reality.

And I'll say this just once (as I don't need to repeat myself unlike you).

Why would MS bother to enforce you to make an agreement that just gives them ownership of a README file and an installation script?

And how do you think MS is going to profit from this?
(or do you think they are offering free cloud services from the good of their heart)

And again (this part I will repeat) you say you have virtually no Qora and you don't care - but here you are posting again in support of Azure - why?

I'm not in support of MS or Azure, just supporting facts, logic, and reality. MS bother's to enforce an agreement that gives them ownership of a readme and installation script because you are storing those files on their github repo, so I'm guessing if the installation script did something malicious or unintended, that would give them complete freedom to modify or delete the script.

[CIYAM]

Let me be totally clear - I do not sign agreements with corporations like Microsoft.

They are the past and we are the future.

We do not need their cloud services and they do not help with decentralisation (the entire point of blockchain systems).

Why someone who claims to have very little Qora and doesn't care just keeps on posting about supporting MS Azure is amazing if there isn't actually some other reason (such as being paid to post by Microsoft to do so).

[kjadB]

I'm not in support of MS or Azure, just supporting facts, logic, and reality. MS bother's to enforce an agreement that gives them ownership of a readme and installation script because you are storing those files on their github repo, so I'm guessing if the installation script did something malicious or unintended, that would give them complete freedom to modify or delete the script.

azure is a honey trap, once a coin is in, how do they get out, once they''re users are depending on azure for business operations? That's when MS starts squeezing people's cobblers with rule changes and whatnot. The initial agreement might look reasonable, but what about any changes in the future? MS has so much form killing opposition only a fool doesn't see what they're doing here

[xyz]

I don't know what is the best for Qora...
But I know that we should find an agreement what is for all acceptable! Discussion is good, but if the discussion get out of control (if people are no more friendly) then this is bad for all of us!!!!
I have seen that @CIYAM have done a very good job for Qora (so I mean his opinion is very important for our community) and I don't love all big players (like microsoft) because as larger somebody is as more he want to make all rules for all things - therefor I would stay away from Azure...
On the other hand @jwinterm has arguments and he is trying to give us HIS opinion. Maybe he is right to play with the big people as much as necessary... But the problem is nobody knows what the the future will bring  - it can be that we are today unable to see, what Azure or microsoft can do to our Qora!

Please to all, can we think a little bit longer? Can we watch what is happening to the other coins in azure and then maybe in some month we can speak again about joining or not!?

[4emily]

I don't know what is the best for Qora...
But I know that we should find an agreement what is for all acceptable! Discussion is good, but if the discussion get out of control (if people are no more friendly) then this is bad for all of us!!!!
I have seen that @CIYAM have done a very good job for Qora (so I mean his opinion is very important for our community) and I don't love all big players (like microsoft) because as larger somebody is as more he want to make all rules for all things - therefor I would stay away from Azure...
On the other hand @jwinterm has arguments and he is trying to give us HIS opinion. Maybe he is right to play with the big people as much as necessary... But the problem is nobody knows what the the future will bring  - it can be that we are today unable to see, what Azure or microsoft can do to our Qora!

Please to all, can we think a little bit longer? Can we watch what is happening to the other coins in azure and then maybe in some month we can speak again about joining or not!?

Agreed: in the circumstances, wait and see would seem to be the wiser course

Moreover, CIYAM has made his position very clear which is another reason why I've voted no.

[jwinterm]

I don't know what is the best for Qora...
But I know that we should find an agreement what is for all acceptable! Discussion is good, but if the discussion get out of control (if people are no more friendly) then this is bad for all of us!!!!
I have seen that @CIYAM have done a very good job for Qora (so I mean his opinion is very important for our community) and I don't love all big players (like microsoft) because as larger somebody is as more he want to make all rules for all things - therefor I would stay away from Azure...
On the other hand @jwinterm has arguments and he is trying to give us HIS opinion. Maybe he is right to play with the big people as much as necessary... But the problem is nobody knows what the the future will bring  - it can be that we are today unable to see, what Azure or microsoft can do to our Qora!

Please to all, can we think a little bit longer? Can we watch what is happening to the other coins in azure and then maybe in some month we can speak again about joining or not!?

Agreement is wholly irrelevant. Every Qora developer, every person on this thread, and every person who owns a single Qora could all agree that Qora should not be on Azure, and it wouldn't matter - anyone with a Github account and enough knowledge to get Qora running on a Linux machine can make the pull request to Azure's Github account with an install script and a readme, sign the agreement themselves, and then Qora will be on Azure.