Health and Religion

[Astargath]

Many times i've got problems because of religion to be honest. Maybe i'm unlucky but everytime i'm trying to go in church something bad happening to me.

The devil doesn't want you to go to church and be saved, so he just might be making trouble for you so that you think that religion is doing it.

Talk about free will, eh? The devil can do things to you all the time to prevent you from believing in god but god himself cannot reveal himself to everyone convincingly so you wont need to believe in him because he likes to play games with the devil. Give me a break with your 10 year old stories.

My stories are a lot older than 10 years old. And you, obviously, don't understand the role the devil has [played in our lives. Besides, God isn't going to force revelation on those who don't want Him to be revealed to them... not yet, anyway.

But he will let the devil, forcefully convince people to do bad things. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Only if the people freely want that force against themselves, a thing which you seem to want for yourself.

As I said, god would have no problem in revealing himself to people then because people would still have the choice to believe in him or not but instead he does not reveal to people and leaves satan to corrupt human minds.

[1714971881]

1714971881

[1714971881]

1714971881

[Astargath]

I can't say that the concept of a ''god'' doesn't exist or it's not possible but I know for sure the christian god is not real because of all the contradictions and because I have been there, as I said many times, I was a believer, 100% and yet here I am, I asked god for help to still believe in him and he didn't help. Either your god exists but he won't help me, which contradicts what he is supposed to be or he doesn't exist. I pick the last option.

There was a time that Satan was on God's side, as well. You are far from the first joker who has turned against God. Satan might have had a bit of an "chance," because God had given Him tremendous power and glory. But even if yo are a billionaire, your strength is only the strength of man, which exists in weakness without God.

Why would god give satan so much power if he already knew satan would betray him?

[Astargath]

Your argument only works when you are assuming god actually exists but then again, you would have to prove a god exists and you haven't. If we assume a god exists, picking the ''best'' religion is still not that good because, first of all, how would you ever know, right?

Your question gets us into the domain of truth theory. It is a complex topic.

Unless you are an adherent of philosophical skepticism you accept that objective reality aka truth exists and can be known.

The question we must then answer is how do we know something is true? What non arbitrary criteria or metric do we use to determine truth?

The best answer to this question that I know of is the the Coherence theory of truth. Here is a brief description of what this is.

Coherence Theory of Truth
http://mrhoyestokwebsite.com/Knower/Useful%20Information/Three%20Different%20Theories%20of%20Truth.htm

Put simply: a belief is true when we are able to incorporate it in an orderly and logical manner into a larger and complex system of beliefs or, even more simply still, a belief is true when it fits in with the set of all our other beliefs without creating a contradiction.
 
Sometimes this seems like an odd way to actually describe truth. After all, a belief can be an inaccurate description of reality and fit in with a larger, complex system of further inaccurate descriptions of reality, according to the Coherence Theory, that inaccurate belief would still be called “truth” even though it didn’t actually describe the way the world really was. Does that really make any sense?
 
Well, possibly … the reason is because statements can’t really be verified in isolation. Whenever you test an idea, you are also actually testing a whole set of ideas at the same time. For example, when you pick up a ball in your hand and drop it, it isn’t simply our belief about gravity which is tested but also our beliefs about a host of other things, not least of which would be the accuracy of our visual perception.
 
So, if statements are only tested as part of larger groups, then one might conclude that a statement can be classified as “true” not so much because it can be verified against reality but rather because it could be integrated into a group of complex ideas, the whole set of which could then be tested against reality. In this case Coherence Theory isn’t that far from the Correspondence Theory and the reason is that while individual statements may be judged as true or false based upon their ability to cohere with a larger system, it is assumed that that system is one which accurately corresponds to reality.
 
Because of this, the Coherence Theory does manage to capture something important about the way we actually conceive of truth in our daily lives. It isn’t that unusual to dismiss something as false precisely because it fails to cohere with a system of ideas which we are confident are true. Granted, maybe the system we assume to be true is quite a way off the mark, but so long as it continues to be successful and is capable of slight adjustments in the light of new data, our confidence is reasonable.

You are concerned that you cannot prove God exists to your satisfaction. My reply is that your inability to prove God has in this instance absolutely no relevance to Truth of God.

It is important to remember what we can prove.

The #1 Mathematical Discovery of the 20th Century
https://www.perrymarshall.com/articles/religion/godels-incompleteness-theorem/

Gödel proved that there are ALWAYS more things that are true than you can prove.

Any system of logic or numbers that mathematicians ever came up with will always rest on at least a few unprovable assumptions.

Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem applies not just to math, but to everything that is subject to the laws of logic. Incompleteness is true in math; it’s equally true in science or language or philosophy.

And: If the universe is mathematical and logical, Incompleteness also applies to the universe.

Gödel created his proof by starting with “The Liar’s Paradox” — which is the statement

“I am lying.”

“I am lying” is self-contradictory, since if it’s true, I’m not a liar, and it’s false; and if it’s false, I am a liar, so it’s true.

So Gödel, in one of the most ingenious moves in the history of math, converted the Liar’s Paradox into a mathematical formula. He proved that any statement requires an external observer.

No statement alone can completely prove itself true.

His Incompleteness Theorem was a devastating blow to the “positivism” of the time. Gödel proved his theorem in black and white and nobody could argue with his logic.

Yet some of his fellow mathematicians went to their graves in denial, believing that somehow or another Gödel must surely be wrong.

He wasn’t wrong. It was really true. There are more things that are true than you can prove.

A “theory of everything” – whether in math, or physics, or philosophy – will never be found. Because it is impossible.

A priori Truth is mathematically inevitable. God is such a Truth. The religious have a more elegant way of summing this up. They call it the necessity of faith.

You ask why can't I prove God? This is the wrong question. The correct question is can I build an integrated and coherent worldview without God? Can I follow the coherence theory of truth and construct a True worldview without God.

Only you can answer that question for yourself. I will tell you, however, that for me the answer was no.

So, you would rather go after Coincube with your stupid questions that I already answered multiple times. It's because you think mere talk is proof for something, without going after the meat of the content of the talk.

Again more philosophical talk, not something I enjoy. ''a belief is true when it fits in with the set of all our other beliefs without creating a contradiction.'' Ok, if it's so simple, your god is not real. If your god is truly omnipotent and all knowing then why are we here?

Do you think that you are complex enough to determine that believing in something is simple?

God placed us here for His own pleasure, part of which is so that we can have pleasure, which happens best and most when we recognize His greatness and worship Him, for which He rewards us (even though it was He Who gave us the ability to worship Him), so that He gets glory from us, so that He has an excuse to return goodness to us for the glory that He receives, so that we both, God and mankind, can increase throughout eternity.

Your self-imposed stupidity is like the core of a black hole... extremely dense, but existing only in a single point - note that according to geometry, points don't exist. Rather, they are the "place" where two real things touch each other. You should be thanking God that He is holding you alive, and giving you a chance to turn back to Him... before it is too late for you.

Oh, right, he gave us free will but then how can he be omnipotent. If we have freewill there is no way for him to know what we are going to do, otherwise it can't be freewill, kind of like:

As I have told you maybe a dozen time, the only free will we have, exists regarding aspects of our faith in God. Remember how God elevated Abraham as explained in Genesis in the Bible? God did it because Abraham happened to turn a bit of his free will towards God in ways that surprised and pleased God. Then, in His delight, God rewarded Abraham by both, physical reward, and the ability to increase his (Abraham's) own faith within himself. A tiny touch of Abraham-free-will, and the big complete self-control of God-free-will working together.

can god create an object so heavy that he can't lift it?

As I have told you in the past, Jesus is the rock that God can't lift. Why can't God lift it? Because Jesus is God, and yet is distinct from God in ways not understandable. The Rock, Jesus, lifted Himself onto the cross (because He could have overcome the people that seemed to be doing the lifting, any second), willingly died there, and then arose from death. He is the rock that God can't lift, but He lifted himself. Note that those of us who believe in God/Jesus are being moved into a place of glory similar to Jesus.

The whole idea of god is already contradictory not to mention all the other contradictions mentioned by me before. Like the bible teaching not to kill but pages later saying, kill everyone that works on the sabbath. So I guess I just proved god is not real, right?

Again, there is no contradiction in the killing thing.

Any and all people that God commanded ancient Israel to kill, were people that were killing other people for nothing, and raising up children who did not believe in God and would die in Hell. So, God was stopping the killing by executing them.

In addition, the earth is he Lord's and all its fullness. It's His property. Since we barely understand the thinking and wisdom of God because of our remoteness, talking against Him is simply a failure on our part.

You are the one who is mistaken. Not believers in God, and certainly not God. When will you stop making your mistakes? Or is it that you have locked yourself into perpetual mistake making with no change ever forthcoming?

C&E is in everything badecker, we can't have freewill because of it, science proves cause and effect exists in everything, even faith, therefore god is not real because free will doesn't exist.

[BADecker]

Your argument only works when you are assuming god actually exists but then again, you would have to prove a god exists and you haven't. If we assume a god exists, picking the ''best'' religion is still not that good because, first of all, how would you ever know, right?

Your question gets us into the domain of truth theory. It is a complex topic.

Unless you are an adherent of philosophical skepticism you accept that objective reality aka truth exists and can be known.

The question we must then answer is how do we know something is true? What non arbitrary criteria or metric do we use to determine truth?

The best answer to this question that I know of is the the Coherence theory of truth. Here is a brief description of what this is.

Coherence Theory of Truth
http://mrhoyestokwebsite.com/Knower/Useful%20Information/Three%20Different%20Theories%20of%20Truth.htm

Put simply: a belief is true when we are able to incorporate it in an orderly and logical manner into a larger and complex system of beliefs or, even more simply still, a belief is true when it fits in with the set of all our other beliefs without creating a contradiction.
 
Sometimes this seems like an odd way to actually describe truth. After all, a belief can be an inaccurate description of reality and fit in with a larger, complex system of further inaccurate descriptions of reality, according to the Coherence Theory, that inaccurate belief would still be called “truth” even though it didn’t actually describe the way the world really was. Does that really make any sense?
 
Well, possibly … the reason is because statements can’t really be verified in isolation. Whenever you test an idea, you are also actually testing a whole set of ideas at the same time. For example, when you pick up a ball in your hand and drop it, it isn’t simply our belief about gravity which is tested but also our beliefs about a host of other things, not least of which would be the accuracy of our visual perception.
 
So, if statements are only tested as part of larger groups, then one might conclude that a statement can be classified as “true” not so much because it can be verified against reality but rather because it could be integrated into a group of complex ideas, the whole set of which could then be tested against reality. In this case Coherence Theory isn’t that far from the Correspondence Theory and the reason is that while individual statements may be judged as true or false based upon their ability to cohere with a larger system, it is assumed that that system is one which accurately corresponds to reality.
 
Because of this, the Coherence Theory does manage to capture something important about the way we actually conceive of truth in our daily lives. It isn’t that unusual to dismiss something as false precisely because it fails to cohere with a system of ideas which we are confident are true. Granted, maybe the system we assume to be true is quite a way off the mark, but so long as it continues to be successful and is capable of slight adjustments in the light of new data, our confidence is reasonable.

You are concerned that you cannot prove God exists to your satisfaction. My reply is that your inability to prove God has in this instance absolutely no relevance to Truth of God.

It is important to remember what we can prove.

The #1 Mathematical Discovery of the 20th Century
https://www.perrymarshall.com/articles/religion/godels-incompleteness-theorem/

Gödel proved that there are ALWAYS more things that are true than you can prove.

Any system of logic or numbers that mathematicians ever came up with will always rest on at least a few unprovable assumptions.

Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem applies not just to math, but to everything that is subject to the laws of logic. Incompleteness is true in math; it’s equally true in science or language or philosophy.

And: If the universe is mathematical and logical, Incompleteness also applies to the universe.

Gödel created his proof by starting with “The Liar’s Paradox” — which is the statement

“I am lying.”

“I am lying” is self-contradictory, since if it’s true, I’m not a liar, and it’s false; and if it’s false, I am a liar, so it’s true.

So Gödel, in one of the most ingenious moves in the history of math, converted the Liar’s Paradox into a mathematical formula. He proved that any statement requires an external observer.

No statement alone can completely prove itself true.

His Incompleteness Theorem was a devastating blow to the “positivism” of the time. Gödel proved his theorem in black and white and nobody could argue with his logic.

Yet some of his fellow mathematicians went to their graves in denial, believing that somehow or another Gödel must surely be wrong.

He wasn’t wrong. It was really true. There are more things that are true than you can prove.

A “theory of everything” – whether in math, or physics, or philosophy – will never be found. Because it is impossible.

A priori Truth is mathematically inevitable. God is such a Truth. The religious have a more elegant way of summing this up. They call it the necessity of faith.

You ask why can't I prove God? This is the wrong question. The correct question is can I build an integrated and coherent worldview without God? Can I follow the coherence theory of truth and construct a True worldview without God.

Only you can answer that question for yourself. I will tell you, however, that for me the answer was no.

So, you would rather go after Coincube with your stupid questions that I already answered multiple times. It's because you think mere talk is proof for something, without going after the meat of the content of the talk.

Again more philosophical talk, not something I enjoy. ''a belief is true when it fits in with the set of all our other beliefs without creating a contradiction.'' Ok, if it's so simple, your god is not real. If your god is truly omnipotent and all knowing then why are we here?

Do you think that you are complex enough to determine that believing in something is simple?

God placed us here for His own pleasure, part of which is so that we can have pleasure, which happens best and most when we recognize His greatness and worship Him, for which He rewards us (even though it was He Who gave us the ability to worship Him), so that He gets glory from us, so that He has an excuse to return goodness to us for the glory that He receives, so that we both, God and mankind, can increase throughout eternity.

Your self-imposed stupidity is like the core of a black hole... extremely dense, but existing only in a single point - note that according to geometry, points don't exist. Rather, they are the "place" where two real things touch each other. You should be thanking God that He is holding you alive, and giving you a chance to turn back to Him... before it is too late for you.

Oh, right, he gave us free will but then how can he be omnipotent. If we have freewill there is no way for him to know what we are going to do, otherwise it can't be freewill, kind of like:

As I have told you maybe a dozen time, the only free will we have, exists regarding aspects of our faith in God. Remember how God elevated Abraham as explained in Genesis in the Bible? God did it because Abraham happened to turn a bit of his free will towards God in ways that surprised and pleased God. Then, in His delight, God rewarded Abraham by both, physical reward, and the ability to increase his (Abraham's) own faith within himself. A tiny touch of Abraham-free-will, and the big complete self-control of God-free-will working together.

can god create an object so heavy that he can't lift it?

As I have told you in the past, Jesus is the rock that God can't lift. Why can't God lift it? Because Jesus is God, and yet is distinct from God in ways not understandable. The Rock, Jesus, lifted Himself onto the cross (because He could have overcome the people that seemed to be doing the lifting, any second), willingly died there, and then arose from death. He is the rock that God can't lift, but He lifted himself. Note that those of us who believe in God/Jesus are being moved into a place of glory similar to Jesus.

The whole idea of god is already contradictory not to mention all the other contradictions mentioned by me before. Like the bible teaching not to kill but pages later saying, kill everyone that works on the sabbath. So I guess I just proved god is not real, right?

Again, there is no contradiction in the killing thing.

Any and all people that God commanded ancient Israel to kill, were people that were killing other people for nothing, and raising up children who did not believe in God and would die in Hell. So, God was stopping the killing by executing them.

In addition, the earth is he Lord's and all its fullness. It's His property. Since we barely understand the thinking and wisdom of God because of our remoteness, talking against Him is simply a failure on our part.

You are the one who is mistaken. Not believers in God, and certainly not God. When will you stop making your mistakes? Or is it that you have locked yourself into perpetual mistake making with no change ever forthcoming?

C&E is in everything badecker, we can't have freewill because of it, science proves cause and effect exists in everything, even faith, therefore god is not real because free will doesn't exist.

Now, the only thing you have to figure out is who or what programmed you via C&E to think like this. Of course, if you figure it out, the Programmer is the one Who programmed you to figure it out, as well.

[BADecker]

I can't say that the concept of a ''god'' doesn't exist or it's not possible but I know for sure the christian god is not real because of all the contradictions and because I have been there, as I said many times, I was a believer, 100% and yet here I am, I asked god for help to still believe in him and he didn't help. Either your god exists but he won't help me, which contradicts what he is supposed to be or he doesn't exist. I pick the last option.

There was a time that Satan was on God's side, as well. You are far from the first joker who has turned against God. Satan might have had a bit of an "chance," because God had given Him tremendous power and glory. But even if yo are a billionaire, your strength is only the strength of man, which exists in weakness without God.

Why would god give satan so much power if he already knew satan would betray him?

Ask God, in the resurrection. My explanations haven't been enough for you, but God will clarify it for you so that you will have no lack of understanding.

[BADecker]

Many times i've got problems because of religion to be honest. Maybe i'm unlucky but everytime i'm trying to go in church something bad happening to me.

The devil doesn't want you to go to church and be saved, so he just might be making trouble for you so that you think that religion is doing it.

Talk about free will, eh? The devil can do things to you all the time to prevent you from believing in god but god himself cannot reveal himself to everyone convincingly so you wont need to believe in him because he likes to play games with the devil. Give me a break with your 10 year old stories.

My stories are a lot older than 10 years old. And you, obviously, don't understand the role the devil has [played in our lives. Besides, God isn't going to force revelation on those who don't want Him to be revealed to them... not yet, anyway.

But he will let the devil, forcefully convince people to do bad things. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Only if the people freely want that force against themselves, a thing which you seem to want for yourself.

As I said, god would have no problem in revealing himself to people then because people would still have the choice to believe in him or not but instead he does not reveal to people and leaves satan to corrupt human minds.

And that is precisely what God is doing. God is revealing Himself to you through the things that I show you. After all, He is god. He isn't required to reveal Himself to you in the ways that you want. It seems that your choice is to not accept His revelations of Himself to you.

[Astargath]

Your argument only works when you are assuming god actually exists but then again, you would have to prove a god exists and you haven't. If we assume a god exists, picking the ''best'' religion is still not that good because, first of all, how would you ever know, right?

Your question gets us into the domain of truth theory. It is a complex topic.

Unless you are an adherent of philosophical skepticism you accept that objective reality aka truth exists and can be known.

The question we must then answer is how do we know something is true? What non arbitrary criteria or metric do we use to determine truth?

The best answer to this question that I know of is the the Coherence theory of truth. Here is a brief description of what this is.

Coherence Theory of Truth
http://mrhoyestokwebsite.com/Knower/Useful%20Information/Three%20Different%20Theories%20of%20Truth.htm

Put simply: a belief is true when we are able to incorporate it in an orderly and logical manner into a larger and complex system of beliefs or, even more simply still, a belief is true when it fits in with the set of all our other beliefs without creating a contradiction.
 
Sometimes this seems like an odd way to actually describe truth. After all, a belief can be an inaccurate description of reality and fit in with a larger, complex system of further inaccurate descriptions of reality, according to the Coherence Theory, that inaccurate belief would still be called “truth” even though it didn’t actually describe the way the world really was. Does that really make any sense?
 
Well, possibly … the reason is because statements can’t really be verified in isolation. Whenever you test an idea, you are also actually testing a whole set of ideas at the same time. For example, when you pick up a ball in your hand and drop it, it isn’t simply our belief about gravity which is tested but also our beliefs about a host of other things, not least of which would be the accuracy of our visual perception.
 
So, if statements are only tested as part of larger groups, then one might conclude that a statement can be classified as “true” not so much because it can be verified against reality but rather because it could be integrated into a group of complex ideas, the whole set of which could then be tested against reality. In this case Coherence Theory isn’t that far from the Correspondence Theory and the reason is that while individual statements may be judged as true or false based upon their ability to cohere with a larger system, it is assumed that that system is one which accurately corresponds to reality.
 
Because of this, the Coherence Theory does manage to capture something important about the way we actually conceive of truth in our daily lives. It isn’t that unusual to dismiss something as false precisely because it fails to cohere with a system of ideas which we are confident are true. Granted, maybe the system we assume to be true is quite a way off the mark, but so long as it continues to be successful and is capable of slight adjustments in the light of new data, our confidence is reasonable.

You are concerned that you cannot prove God exists to your satisfaction. My reply is that your inability to prove God has in this instance absolutely no relevance to Truth of God.

It is important to remember what we can prove.

The #1 Mathematical Discovery of the 20th Century
https://www.perrymarshall.com/articles/religion/godels-incompleteness-theorem/

Gödel proved that there are ALWAYS more things that are true than you can prove.

Any system of logic or numbers that mathematicians ever came up with will always rest on at least a few unprovable assumptions.

Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem applies not just to math, but to everything that is subject to the laws of logic. Incompleteness is true in math; it’s equally true in science or language or philosophy.

And: If the universe is mathematical and logical, Incompleteness also applies to the universe.

Gödel created his proof by starting with “The Liar’s Paradox” — which is the statement

“I am lying.”

“I am lying” is self-contradictory, since if it’s true, I’m not a liar, and it’s false; and if it’s false, I am a liar, so it’s true.

So Gödel, in one of the most ingenious moves in the history of math, converted the Liar’s Paradox into a mathematical formula. He proved that any statement requires an external observer.

No statement alone can completely prove itself true.

His Incompleteness Theorem was a devastating blow to the “positivism” of the time. Gödel proved his theorem in black and white and nobody could argue with his logic.

Yet some of his fellow mathematicians went to their graves in denial, believing that somehow or another Gödel must surely be wrong.

He wasn’t wrong. It was really true. There are more things that are true than you can prove.

A “theory of everything” – whether in math, or physics, or philosophy – will never be found. Because it is impossible.

A priori Truth is mathematically inevitable. God is such a Truth. The religious have a more elegant way of summing this up. They call it the necessity of faith.

You ask why can't I prove God? This is the wrong question. The correct question is can I build an integrated and coherent worldview without God? Can I follow the coherence theory of truth and construct a True worldview without God.

Only you can answer that question for yourself. I will tell you, however, that for me the answer was no.

So, you would rather go after Coincube with your stupid questions that I already answered multiple times. It's because you think mere talk is proof for something, without going after the meat of the content of the talk.

Again more philosophical talk, not something I enjoy. ''a belief is true when it fits in with the set of all our other beliefs without creating a contradiction.'' Ok, if it's so simple, your god is not real. If your god is truly omnipotent and all knowing then why are we here?

Do you think that you are complex enough to determine that believing in something is simple?

God placed us here for His own pleasure, part of which is so that we can have pleasure, which happens best and most when we recognize His greatness and worship Him, for which He rewards us (even though it was He Who gave us the ability to worship Him), so that He gets glory from us, so that He has an excuse to return goodness to us for the glory that He receives, so that we both, God and mankind, can increase throughout eternity.

Your self-imposed stupidity is like the core of a black hole... extremely dense, but existing only in a single point - note that according to geometry, points don't exist. Rather, they are the "place" where two real things touch each other. You should be thanking God that He is holding you alive, and giving you a chance to turn back to Him... before it is too late for you.

Oh, right, he gave us free will but then how can he be omnipotent. If we have freewill there is no way for him to know what we are going to do, otherwise it can't be freewill, kind of like:

As I have told you maybe a dozen time, the only free will we have, exists regarding aspects of our faith in God. Remember how God elevated Abraham as explained in Genesis in the Bible? God did it because Abraham happened to turn a bit of his free will towards God in ways that surprised and pleased God. Then, in His delight, God rewarded Abraham by both, physical reward, and the ability to increase his (Abraham's) own faith within himself. A tiny touch of Abraham-free-will, and the big complete self-control of God-free-will working together.

can god create an object so heavy that he can't lift it?

As I have told you in the past, Jesus is the rock that God can't lift. Why can't God lift it? Because Jesus is God, and yet is distinct from God in ways not understandable. The Rock, Jesus, lifted Himself onto the cross (because He could have overcome the people that seemed to be doing the lifting, any second), willingly died there, and then arose from death. He is the rock that God can't lift, but He lifted himself. Note that those of us who believe in God/Jesus are being moved into a place of glory similar to Jesus.

The whole idea of god is already contradictory not to mention all the other contradictions mentioned by me before. Like the bible teaching not to kill but pages later saying, kill everyone that works on the sabbath. So I guess I just proved god is not real, right?

Again, there is no contradiction in the killing thing.

Any and all people that God commanded ancient Israel to kill, were people that were killing other people for nothing, and raising up children who did not believe in God and would die in Hell. So, God was stopping the killing by executing them.

In addition, the earth is he Lord's and all its fullness. It's His property. Since we barely understand the thinking and wisdom of God because of our remoteness, talking against Him is simply a failure on our part.

You are the one who is mistaken. Not believers in God, and certainly not God. When will you stop making your mistakes? Or is it that you have locked yourself into perpetual mistake making with no change ever forthcoming?

C&E is in everything badecker, we can't have freewill because of it, science proves cause and effect exists in everything, even faith, therefore god is not real because free will doesn't exist.

Now, the only thing you have to figure out is who or what programmed you via C&E to think like this. Of course, if you figure it out, the Programmer is the one Who programmed you to figure it out, as well.

No matter who the programmer is, he is not the god from the bible since we don't have freewill.

[Astargath]

Many times i've got problems because of religion to be honest. Maybe i'm unlucky but everytime i'm trying to go in church something bad happening to me.

The devil doesn't want you to go to church and be saved, so he just might be making trouble for you so that you think that religion is doing it.

Talk about free will, eh? The devil can do things to you all the time to prevent you from believing in god but god himself cannot reveal himself to everyone convincingly so you wont need to believe in him because he likes to play games with the devil. Give me a break with your 10 year old stories.

My stories are a lot older than 10 years old. And you, obviously, don't understand the role the devil has [played in our lives. Besides, God isn't going to force revelation on those who don't want Him to be revealed to them... not yet, anyway.

But he will let the devil, forcefully convince people to do bad things. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Only if the people freely want that force against themselves, a thing which you seem to want for yourself.

As I said, god would have no problem in revealing himself to people then because people would still have the choice to believe in him or not but instead he does not reveal to people and leaves satan to corrupt human minds.

And that is precisely what God is doing. God is revealing Himself to you through the things that I show you. After all, He is god. He isn't required to reveal Himself to you in the ways that you want. It seems that your choice is to not accept His revelations of Himself to you.

God chose to reveal himself to me through a random person on a bitcoin forum that I consider delusional. Great job god...

[CoinCube]

Alfie Evans Foreshadows a Dark American Future
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/04/alfie-evans-case-americas-future/

Yes, it could happen here.
How? How does a nation reach a point where it will essentially kidnap a child from a loving, functioning family, yank that same child off life support, deny him care as he unexpectedly fights to stay alive, and then block attempts by a foreign government to rescue him and provide him top-notch care free of charge? How does a great civilization sink to such barbarism and tyranny?

There are two stories one could tell — one about policy, the other about philosophy. The policy story traces events like the nationalization of health care, the evolution of family law, and changing doctrines of individual liberty. It is far less important. Policy flows from philosophy, and the philosophy of government is the central reason for the monstrous injustice in Great Britain.

The scary thing is that the same philosophy could well bring the same injustice to the United States.

Let’s back up a bit — all the way to July 1776. That’s the month when the members of the second Continental Congress signed a Declaration stating the fundamental founding principle of a new republic: that “all men are created equal” and “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,” including “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.” Critically, the Declaration of Independence also stressed that governments are instituted “to secure these rights.” [Emphasis added.]

You’ll notice two things right away. First, there is a fundamentally religious element to America’s founding. The primacy of the “Laws of Nature and Nature’s God” is clear and explicit. Second, the state is thus inherently and inescapably subordinate to these laws, existing mainly to protect the rights God grants.

Applying the philosophy of the founding to a case like Alfie Evans’s yields a clear result. The state exists to protect the life and liberty of its citizens. Both are in play here: Alfie’s life and the liberty of his parents to in good faith and with due consideration make health-care decisions on behalf of their sick child. Raised against the backdrop of American liberty, there are millions of Americans who understand this reality almost instinctively, without knowing an ounce of constitutional law. Their very spirit rebels against Great Britain’s actions.

But there are now millions of secularized Americans who have a quite different worldview, as well. The religious element of the founding rings false and hollow to them. They find that the very concept of the “Laws of Nature and Nature’s God” should be subordinate to human-defined morality, which — when stripped of its theistic elements — places even the right to life up for debate. While there are many secularists who revere life and treasure the founding values, there is nothing inherent in secularism itself that protects individual liberty.

With no God over the state, the state then becomes not the defender of liberty but the definer of liberty. You have no freedoms except those bestowed by the state, and those freedoms are defined entirely by the various branches of government. There is no inherent parental authority. There is no inherent right to life. There is only the justice the state gives according to the standards the state dictates.

Marry statism to utopianism, and you create an alluring vision that empowers a host of self-righteous evils, centralization and authoritarianism chief among them. If government defines the good, then where is the room for dissent? Does it not merely impede and complicate the administration of social justice?

Consider what’s happened in Britain. Rather than defending a right to life, the state has decided to define which lives are worth living. Rather than protecting the rights of the child only when the parents have manifestly failed, the state has decided that it is the greater, better parent.

The long-term threat to the American experiment isn’t found in any given policy, but rather in a lost philosophy. Americans are shedding a belief in God at an alarming rate. In elite circles, fundamental liberties like free speech and due process are scorned and mocked as tools of white supremacy or oppressive patriarchies. Federalism has been reduced to a tactic of political opposition, not a bipartisan principle of self-governance.

If you don’t want America to become Britain — if you don’t want to wake up one morning to find the American state defying loving and prudent parents to declare that death is in a child’s “best interests” — I would suggest that you not wait until America is secularized, centralized, and authoritarian. I’d suggest that you not wait until the moment when the state has seized the power to act like Britain, and you’re reduced to arguing, “I know the government can do this, but it shouldn’t.”

Because if you wait until then, you’ve already lost.

Across Twitter, I’ve seen conservatives talk about Alfie’s case and discuss “Second Amendment remedies.” Something about that case has unlocked the revolutionary spirit in some American hearts. And rightfully so. Because if our nation reaches the point where it treats children and families the way Britain has treated Alfie and his parents, then the promise of American liberty will be broken. Is Britain’s present a preview of America’s future? It should grieve us greatly to know that the answer to that question is in serious doubt.

[syntaxerror797]

Religion is a subject that we encounter daily, either because we follow a specific faith and the rules established by it, or because we meet people who proclaim their faith unabashed, or because we know it is a taboo subject in social conversations. It is probably better to ask someone how much they earn, or about their health history, then to ask them to what religion they practice. Religion is considered too personal a subject. In scientific discourse it is only recently that religion has received any special attention. Previously considered as outside of the sphere of research for the perceived impossibility in using any scientific method to study it, religion is now prominent in scientific studies that investigate its influence on health (Miller & Thorensen, 2003).

Religion is not only “researchable,” but it is also of essential interest to clinicians, doctors, patients and health psychologists. Religion has the benefit of empowering the individual through connecting him/her to a community, and to a superior force, that might in turn give psychological stability (Oman & Thorensen, 2003). This ability to empower could be used by health psychologists in medical settings (and not only) to help those who struggle with a disease or to promote a healthier lifestyle. However, because this resource is not investigated and used at its full capacity, health psychology risks promoting a cultural iatrogenesis (healer-induced disability to cope with illness) (Oman & Thorensen, 2003). In a world dominated by a culture of consumption, religion offers a venue for individuals to commit to something beyond themselves, in addition to empowering the community, overall. This empowering happens through consciousness of religious principles, such as the sanctity of human life, shared identity, meaningful roles in the community and society at large, a variety of spiritual, social and economic support, social networks, and even leadership for social change and protection in time of conflicts.

In light of these considerations, Oman and Thorensen (2003) point out that health psychology should cultivate an understanding of how religion and spirituality are felt, lived, and experienced by the populations of interest. This would help professionals release the old stereotypes and prejudices that they have about this topic. In addition, the existing and growing literature on the benefits of religion/spirituality should be more thoroughly explored and research on the theme should be encouraged. Finally, with the aid of community health psychology, the field of health psychology at large should move towards promoting culture as a means of understanding between health care provider and patient and in the interest of prevention, as well.

[CoinCube]

I think that 'God concept' operates on the principle of "if you build it, they will come", so you have to believe first then God will reveal himself to you.
 
That is why people say: ..."God helps those who help themselves".
...

I agree with this.

...
Yes, I know, it is retarded
...

But not with this. Can we call it your a priori assumption of retardation?

[BADecker]

Many times i've got problems because of religion to be honest. Maybe i'm unlucky but everytime i'm trying to go in church something bad happening to me.

The devil doesn't want you to go to church and be saved, so he just might be making trouble for you so that you think that religion is doing it.

Talk about free will, eh? The devil can do things to you all the time to prevent you from believing in god but god himself cannot reveal himself to everyone convincingly so you wont need to believe in him because he likes to play games with the devil. Give me a break with your 10 year old stories.

My stories are a lot older than 10 years old. And you, obviously, don't understand the role the devil has [played in our lives. Besides, God isn't going to force revelation on those who don't want Him to be revealed to them... not yet, anyway.

But he will let the devil, forcefully convince people to do bad things. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Only if the people freely want that force against themselves, a thing which you seem to want for yourself.

As I said, god would have no problem in revealing himself to people then because people would still have the choice to believe in him or not but instead he does not reveal to people and leaves satan to corrupt human minds.

And that is precisely what God is doing. God is revealing Himself to you through the things that I show you. After all, He is god. He isn't required to reveal Himself to you in the ways that you want. It seems that your choice is to not accept His revelations of Himself to you.

God chose to reveal himself to me through a random person on a bitcoin forum that I consider delusional. Great job god...

It's a shame that you won't accept His other revelations, but now you are finally seeing the proof that God exists, through someone on a forum. However, it doesn't seem that you accept proof, forum or otherwise.

[Astargath]

Many times i've got problems because of religion to be honest. Maybe i'm unlucky but everytime i'm trying to go in church something bad happening to me.

The devil doesn't want you to go to church and be saved, so he just might be making trouble for you so that you think that religion is doing it.

Talk about free will, eh? The devil can do things to you all the time to prevent you from believing in god but god himself cannot reveal himself to everyone convincingly so you wont need to believe in him because he likes to play games with the devil. Give me a break with your 10 year old stories.

My stories are a lot older than 10 years old. And you, obviously, don't understand the role the devil has [played in our lives. Besides, God isn't going to force revelation on those who don't want Him to be revealed to them... not yet, anyway.

But he will let the devil, forcefully convince people to do bad things. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Only if the people freely want that force against themselves, a thing which you seem to want for yourself.

As I said, god would have no problem in revealing himself to people then because people would still have the choice to believe in him or not but instead he does not reveal to people and leaves satan to corrupt human minds.

And that is precisely what God is doing. God is revealing Himself to you through the things that I show you. After all, He is god. He isn't required to reveal Himself to you in the ways that you want. It seems that your choice is to not accept His revelations of Himself to you.

God chose to reveal himself to me through a random person on a bitcoin forum that I consider delusional. Great job god...

It's a shame that you won't accept His other revelations, but now you are finally seeing the proof that God exists, through someone on a forum. However, it doesn't seem that you accept proof, forum or otherwise.

As I said many times, there are no other revelations. I asked him for proof when I was a believer and I got none, I didn't have anything to accept at that point, I just had doubts but he didn't help me at all. 2 options are then presented, 1. God doesn't care about me which contradicts how the bible defines god or 2. He doesn't exist.

[BADecker]

Many times i've got problems because of religion to be honest. Maybe i'm unlucky but everytime i'm trying to go in church something bad happening to me.

The devil doesn't want you to go to church and be saved, so he just might be making trouble for you so that you think that religion is doing it.

Talk about free will, eh? The devil can do things to you all the time to prevent you from believing in god but god himself cannot reveal himself to everyone convincingly so you wont need to believe in him because he likes to play games with the devil. Give me a break with your 10 year old stories.

My stories are a lot older than 10 years old. And you, obviously, don't understand the role the devil has [played in our lives. Besides, God isn't going to force revelation on those who don't want Him to be revealed to them... not yet, anyway.

But he will let the devil, forcefully convince people to do bad things. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Only if the people freely want that force against themselves, a thing which you seem to want for yourself.

As I said, god would have no problem in revealing himself to people then because people would still have the choice to believe in him or not but instead he does not reveal to people and leaves satan to corrupt human minds.

And that is precisely what God is doing. God is revealing Himself to you through the things that I show you. After all, He is god. He isn't required to reveal Himself to you in the ways that you want. It seems that your choice is to not accept His revelations of Himself to you.

God chose to reveal himself to me through a random person on a bitcoin forum that I consider delusional. Great job god...

It's a shame that you won't accept His other revelations, but now you are finally seeing the proof that God exists, through someone on a forum. However, it doesn't seem that you accept proof, forum or otherwise.

As I said many times, there are no other revelations. I asked him for proof when I was a believer and I got none, I didn't have anything to accept at that point, I just had doubts but he didn't help me at all. 2 options are then presented, 1. God doesn't care about me which contradicts how the bible defines god or 2. He doesn't exist.

The whole Bible was a big revelation from God to you. The miracle of nature is another. I, in this forum, am another. Since you don't want to believe the revelations He offers, He isn't going to allow you the privilege of twisting Him out of perfection, so that He does the revelation thing your way. Why not? Because you still wouldn't believe Him, even if He did it your way.

If you don't believe Him, will you even be convinced while you are burning in Hell? Who knows? You will find out. But by then it will be too late to do anything about it. Change now while you still have time.

[Astargath]

Many times i've got problems because of religion to be honest. Maybe i'm unlucky but everytime i'm trying to go in church something bad happening to me.

The devil doesn't want you to go to church and be saved, so he just might be making trouble for you so that you think that religion is doing it.

Talk about free will, eh? The devil can do things to you all the time to prevent you from believing in god but god himself cannot reveal himself to everyone convincingly so you wont need to believe in him because he likes to play games with the devil. Give me a break with your 10 year old stories.

My stories are a lot older than 10 years old. And you, obviously, don't understand the role the devil has [played in our lives. Besides, God isn't going to force revelation on those who don't want Him to be revealed to them... not yet, anyway.

But he will let the devil, forcefully convince people to do bad things. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Only if the people freely want that force against themselves, a thing which you seem to want for yourself.

As I said, god would have no problem in revealing himself to people then because people would still have the choice to believe in him or not but instead he does not reveal to people and leaves satan to corrupt human minds.

And that is precisely what God is doing. God is revealing Himself to you through the things that I show you. After all, He is god. He isn't required to reveal Himself to you in the ways that you want. It seems that your choice is to not accept His revelations of Himself to you.

God chose to reveal himself to me through a random person on a bitcoin forum that I consider delusional. Great job god...

It's a shame that you won't accept His other revelations, but now you are finally seeing the proof that God exists, through someone on a forum. However, it doesn't seem that you accept proof, forum or otherwise.

As I said many times, there are no other revelations. I asked him for proof when I was a believer and I got none, I didn't have anything to accept at that point, I just had doubts but he didn't help me at all. 2 options are then presented, 1. God doesn't care about me which contradicts how the bible defines god or 2. He doesn't exist.

The whole Bible was a big revelation from God to you. The miracle of nature is another. I, in this forum, am another. Since you don't want to believe the revelations He offers, He isn't going to allow you the privilege of twisting Him out of perfection, so that He does the revelation thing your way. Why not? Because you still wouldn't believe Him, even if He did it your way.

If you don't believe Him, will you even be convinced while you are burning in Hell? Who knows? You will find out. But by then it will be too late to do anything about it. Change now while you still have time.

You keep repeating yourself, I was a believer, his ''revelations'' worked at first but only because I was indoctrinated that way. When I had doubts and asked for help he didn't, otherwise I wouldn't be here telling you how I don't believe in god. I absolutely wanted to believe in him at the time even when I had my doubts, why wouldn't I? A god like that would be a good thing, unfortunately as I said, he didn't help me with my doubts. There is nothing to change, I can't force myself into believing in something. God doesn't exist.

[BADecker]

Many times i've got problems because of religion to be honest. Maybe i'm unlucky but everytime i'm trying to go in church something bad happening to me.

The devil doesn't want you to go to church and be saved, so he just might be making trouble for you so that you think that religion is doing it.

Talk about free will, eh? The devil can do things to you all the time to prevent you from believing in god but god himself cannot reveal himself to everyone convincingly so you wont need to believe in him because he likes to play games with the devil. Give me a break with your 10 year old stories.

My stories are a lot older than 10 years old. And you, obviously, don't understand the role the devil has [played in our lives. Besides, God isn't going to force revelation on those who don't want Him to be revealed to them... not yet, anyway.

But he will let the devil, forcefully convince people to do bad things. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Only if the people freely want that force against themselves, a thing which you seem to want for yourself.

As I said, god would have no problem in revealing himself to people then because people would still have the choice to believe in him or not but instead he does not reveal to people and leaves satan to corrupt human minds.

And that is precisely what God is doing. God is revealing Himself to you through the things that I show you. After all, He is god. He isn't required to reveal Himself to you in the ways that you want. It seems that your choice is to not accept His revelations of Himself to you.

God chose to reveal himself to me through a random person on a bitcoin forum that I consider delusional. Great job god...

It's a shame that you won't accept His other revelations, but now you are finally seeing the proof that God exists, through someone on a forum. However, it doesn't seem that you accept proof, forum or otherwise.

As I said many times, there are no other revelations. I asked him for proof when I was a believer and I got none, I didn't have anything to accept at that point, I just had doubts but he didn't help me at all. 2 options are then presented, 1. God doesn't care about me which contradicts how the bible defines god or 2. He doesn't exist.

The whole Bible was a big revelation from God to you. The miracle of nature is another. I, in this forum, am another. Since you don't want to believe the revelations He offers, He isn't going to allow you the privilege of twisting Him out of perfection, so that He does the revelation thing your way. Why not? Because you still wouldn't believe Him, even if He did it your way.

If you don't believe Him, will you even be convinced while you are burning in Hell? Who knows? You will find out. But by then it will be too late to do anything about it. Change now while you still have time.

You keep repeating yourself, I was a believer, his ''revelations'' worked at first but only because I was indoctrinated that way. When I had doubts and asked for help he didn't, otherwise I wouldn't be here telling you how I don't believe in god. I absolutely wanted to believe in him at the time even when I had my doubts, why wouldn't I? A god like that would be a good thing, unfortunately as I said, he didn't help me with my doubts. There is nothing to change, I can't force myself into believing in something. God doesn't exist.

That's too bad. Well, was nice chatting with you for a while. We coulda had a great time through all eternity. But... your choice.

[CoinCube]

Newt Gingrich: Alfie Evans is condemned to die at 23 months because of Britain's scary secular state
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/04/27/newt-gingrich-alfie-evans-is-condemned-to-die-at-23-months-because-britains-scary-secular-state.html

The British government’s decision to allow two critically ill babies to die in two years is a natural reflection of the culture of death and the steady increase in totalitarian tendencies among Western governments

Last year, the British government ordered life support removed from Charlie Gard, ending his life when he was just 11 months old. Now, Alfie Evans – just 23 months old – has received what amounts to the same death sentence. On Monday, he was removed from life support by court order – against the wishes of his parents.

Then something remarkable happened. The child confounded his doctors and refused to die.

As of the time I am writing this, Alfie Evans is still alive and is breathing unaided. This is despite the claim made by a medical professional during a court hearing that Alfie would die quickly – possibly in “minutes” – if taken off life support.

At least twice in two years we have seen a supposedly free country’s court system impose what amounts to a death sentence on its most innocent citizens.

But even this display of the power of the human spirit to defy the expectations of the supposedly rational and objective state did nothing to sway the minds of the British courts and state-run medical apparatus.

On Wednesday, another legal appeal by Alfie’s parents to be allowed to try and save their son’s life was denied.

The secular system has asserted its right to define what lives are worth living and is determined to prevent its authority from being questioned. Alfie Evans’ life – like Charlie Gard’s before him – has been determined to be limited by the standards of the secular state, and therefore without value.

These tragic government-imposed death sentences for innocent infants should frighten all of us about increasing secularism in society and the steady shift towards a totalitarian willingness to control our lives – down to and including ending them – on the government’s terms.

This is a direct assault on the core premise of the Declaration of Independence. We Americans asserted that we “are endowed by (our) Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.” In the American Revolution, in our fight against the British crown, we asserted that rights come from God – not from government.

However, our secular, liberal culture increasingly dismisses the concept of God and asserts that our rights come from a rational contract enforced by government.

In the original American model, we asserted our God-given rights against the power of a potentially tyrannical government. In the emerging left-wing secular order, since there is no God our rights depend on a secular state controlling itself.

Britain is giving us a vivid, tragic sense of how dangerous and heartless government tyranny can be once God is rejected and there is nothing between us and the government.

Ironically, this latest decision was made the same year Stephen Hawking died – 55 years after he was diagnosed with ALS (commonly known as Lou Gehrig’s disease) and told he had only two years to live.

Apparently, the British government learned no lessons from Hawking’s remarkable lifetime of work and achievement, which he pursued despite having to battle an extraordinarily challenging illness.

In fact, in 1985 Hawking contracted pneumonia while he was writing “A Brief History of Time,” and his wife was asked if his life should be terminated. She refused, and Hawking went on to live another 33 years and publish one of the most acclaimed books of the 20th century, which has since sold more than 10 million copies worldwide. This was all after it was suggested he be taken off life support.

Hawking should be a permanent reminder that the human spirit is more important than the human body, and that the will to live and achieve should not be destroyed by the state.

Yet in the very country that produced and nurtured Hawking, the government still ordered the removal of life support from two babies. In both cases there has been an organized alternative to government-imposed death.

Charlie Gard’s condition was potentially treatable by an experimental process in the United States. An American hospital and other organizations were willing to treat him. Supporters gave more than 1.3 million pounds (about $1.8 million) to pay for the travel and treatment.

Charlie’s parents wanted him to have the chance to live. However, the British bureaucracy took time to consider if he could go to the U.S. for treatment. During that bureaucratic process, his condition worsened. Then it was too late.

While the bureaucratic deliberation continued, Charlie’s parents and those who wanted to try to save him were told they had no right to help their own child. The child belonged to the government, and the government would decide whether he had the right to live.

This year, Alfie Evans had international support for an opportunity to live. The “pope’s hospital” – Bambino Gesù Pediatric Hospital in Rome – has offered to treat Alfie (as it did with Charlie). Pope Francis has publicly appealed to the British government to allow the young boy to be taken to Rome.

An air ambulance was sent to Alfie’s hospital earlier this week to bring him to the doctors who wanted to try for a miraculous cure.

What better place is there to hope for a miracle than in the pope’s pediatric hospital, which has helped many children with rare diseases?

This appeal for hope fell on the deaf ears of the state, which refused to allow Alfie’s parents to transfer their child to Rome. In fact, The Telegraph reported that despite a judge ruling that Alfie’s parents could “explore” taking the child home, doctors treating the child have been against this because they fear that “in the ‘worst case’ they would try to take the boy abroad."

In other words, the “worst case” scenario would be for Alfie’s parents to seek medical help to save their child.

This is monstrous. It is difficult to understand the arrogance and coldness of British judges who prefer to order death rather than allow parents to fight for the lives of their children. Yet at least twice in two years we have seen a supposedly free country’s court system impose what amounts to a death sentence on its most innocent citizens.

Some of this cruelty and inhumanity is a function of the growing culture of death and the expanding sense that secular values must drive religious values out of public life.

Some of it comes from Britain’s National Health Service, which must bureaucratically define what is worth investing in and what is not. In a world of limited medical resources, little babies with rare conditions become expendable “for the greater good.” The fact that we are all diminished makes no difference to the atheist bureaucratic left.

Those who say they favor socialism must be made to confront this inhumanity, which is an integral part of socialist implementation. When the government controls everything, the government defines everything, and humanity is crushed beneath petty rules and petty rulers.

In America, we are watching the steady growth of intolerance and the totalitarian impulse. Look at the campuses that now seek to control speech. Look at the polls that show young people are being educated into support for censorship.

Look at the California Legislature, which is considering legislation that – taken to its logical conclusion – will outlaw the sale and distribution of the Bible and the Koran (the secular society sees both as intolerant, dangerous documents).

When you read about these two babies being denied life support by a supposedly free government, remember what John Donne warned when he wrote “any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”

In these two years, we have seen two babies effectively sentenced to death by a government we would once have considered humane. What will the next horror be?

[Astargath]

Many times i've got problems because of religion to be honest. Maybe i'm unlucky but everytime i'm trying to go in church something bad happening to me.

The devil doesn't want you to go to church and be saved, so he just might be making trouble for you so that you think that religion is doing it.

Talk about free will, eh? The devil can do things to you all the time to prevent you from believing in god but god himself cannot reveal himself to everyone convincingly so you wont need to believe in him because he likes to play games with the devil. Give me a break with your 10 year old stories.

My stories are a lot older than 10 years old. And you, obviously, don't understand the role the devil has [played in our lives. Besides, God isn't going to force revelation on those who don't want Him to be revealed to them... not yet, anyway.

But he will let the devil, forcefully convince people to do bad things. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Only if the people freely want that force against themselves, a thing which you seem to want for yourself.

As I said, god would have no problem in revealing himself to people then because people would still have the choice to believe in him or not but instead he does not reveal to people and leaves satan to corrupt human minds.

And that is precisely what God is doing. God is revealing Himself to you through the things that I show you. After all, He is god. He isn't required to reveal Himself to you in the ways that you want. It seems that your choice is to not accept His revelations of Himself to you.

God chose to reveal himself to me through a random person on a bitcoin forum that I consider delusional. Great job god...

It's a shame that you won't accept His other revelations, but now you are finally seeing the proof that God exists, through someone on a forum. However, it doesn't seem that you accept proof, forum or otherwise.

As I said many times, there are no other revelations. I asked him for proof when I was a believer and I got none, I didn't have anything to accept at that point, I just had doubts but he didn't help me at all. 2 options are then presented, 1. God doesn't care about me which contradicts how the bible defines god or 2. He doesn't exist.

The whole Bible was a big revelation from God to you. The miracle of nature is another. I, in this forum, am another. Since you don't want to believe the revelations He offers, He isn't going to allow you the privilege of twisting Him out of perfection, so that He does the revelation thing your way. Why not? Because you still wouldn't believe Him, even if He did it your way.

If you don't believe Him, will you even be convinced while you are burning in Hell? Who knows? You will find out. But by then it will be too late to do anything about it. Change now while you still have time.

You keep repeating yourself, I was a believer, his ''revelations'' worked at first but only because I was indoctrinated that way. When I had doubts and asked for help he didn't, otherwise I wouldn't be here telling you how I don't believe in god. I absolutely wanted to believe in him at the time even when I had my doubts, why wouldn't I? A god like that would be a good thing, unfortunately as I said, he didn't help me with my doubts. There is nothing to change, I can't force myself into believing in something. God doesn't exist.

That's too bad. Well, was nice chatting with you for a while. We coulda had a great time through all eternity. But... your choice.

Well it isn't my choice at all. I wanted to pick god as my choice, I simply couldn't because the lack of evidence, if he didn't want to help me then, is it really my fault that I'm using the reasoning and intelligence that he gave me? Am I really a bad person for not believing in god, why is belief important. A god would certainly not need for me or you to believe in him and would judge us by our actions, not beliefs. Good people should be rewarded with life in heaven, not believers.

[qwik2learn]

Which god should I chose? Does anyone pick his God based on research or rather indoctrination and luck? That is the problem with religion and gods. I can't just blindly believe in things.

Many people have chosen their faith as a result of research. For example famous skeptic Anthony Flew was convinced by evidence from biology.

[criza]

I think that the assoiciation of the two concepts are lacking and inconsistent. Up until now there is no sufficient evidence that will show that religion affects our health. Yet, I think that our health affects our religion. Scientifically speaking, there is no relationship between the two. But as for me, I opposed to the ideology that atheism leads to good health. Because I do believe that it affects each other the positive way. If you are in a good religion, then you feel good. It means that less stress and therefore you are becoming healthy. If your health is in good condition, then you can be involved into much more religious activities since you are fit to take on the tasks. However, I also believe that higher IQ associated with atheism. But I do also believe that the higher the IQ, the lower the EW. Thus, people with high EQ has the lower chance of becoming mentally stressed and therefore, capable of being healthy.