Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[takuma sato]

A lot of people lost a lot of money today because betting on a top 5 for Ferrari is a common gamble in the markets, and this bet has been blown out now with the DQ's, assuming the brokers have not paid yet. Which is an interesting question. What % has been paid and what didn't on this bet? What happens if you bet on Hamilton 5th, you win and make the money, but then the FIA decides to rever this and now he is like 19th? The broker paid you the money, do they have legal grounds to ask that you give them your money back + what you lost on the wrong bet? how does these things get settled? fortunately I have never had this problem of betting on something that then gets reverted.

[retreat]

A lot of people lost a lot of money today because betting on a top 5 for Ferrari is a common gamble in the markets, and this bet has been blown out now with the DQ's, assuming the brokers have not paid yet. Which is an interesting question. What % has been paid and what didn't on this bet? What happens if you bet on Hamilton 5th, you win and make the money, but then the FIA decides to rever this and now he is like 19th? The broker paid you the money, do they have legal grounds to ask that you give them your money back + what you lost on the wrong bet? how does these things get settled? fortunately I have never had this problem of betting on something that then gets reverted.

I have never faced such a situation. But as far as I know, once the bet is settled, the bettor can immediately cash out and the bookmakers will not have a problem with it anymore, even when the FIA ​​later revises the results. If there are bookmakers who have a problem with the bet just because the FIA ​​revises the results, I think it is a red flag, and there is no need to bet on such a platform anymore.

[tokeweed]

Ferrari's disqualification with both cars is a disaster. It is all because of the team's fault.    How could you be so careless? Don't you just want to achieve anything from now on? If it is your goal then just tell us directly.

No words to say about Lawson's horrible performance. By the way Red Bull is preparing for a swap between Lawson and Tsunoda for the Japanese GP ahead. It would be a reasonable gamble. Tsunoda isn't used to a Red Bull car but there will be no difference.    At least he would be more promising with his experience...

Yup...  Maybe Ferrari should give Christian Horner another call and up the ante, give him a more enticing offer. 

And yeah, heard that one today too.  I think if Tsunoda does well and finishes at 10th place or better then we'll prolly see the move be permanent and he will be Red Bull's second driver.  Would that be against the rules?  To change drivers with the sister team in the middle of the season or they really need to drop Lawson and get Tsunoda?

[coinlocket$]

Liam Lwason could be already kicked out from RedBull.
Red Bull is considering replacing him with Yuki Tsunoda after only 2 races.
It could be an imminent decision effect immediately before the Japan's GP.

This is not the 1st time Redbull is going for a dramatic decision, they already did in the past with deVries and Gasly.

[sana54210]

A lot of people lost a lot of money today because betting on a top 5 for Ferrari is a common gamble in the markets, and this bet has been blown out now with the DQ's, assuming the brokers have not paid yet. Which is an interesting question. What % has been paid and what didn't on this bet? What happens if you bet on Hamilton 5th, you win and make the money, but then the FIA decides to rever this and now he is like 19th? The broker paid you the money, do they have legal grounds to ask that you give them your money back + what you lost on the wrong bet? how does these things get settled? fortunately I have never had this problem of betting on something that then gets reverted.

I have never faced such a situation. But as far as I know, once the bet is settled, the bettor can immediately cash out and the bookmakers will not have a problem with it anymore, even when the FIA ​​later revises the results. If there are bookmakers who have a problem with the bet just because the FIA ​​revises the results, I think it is a red flag, and there is no need to bet on such a platform anymore.

Depends on the bookmaker or the place you gamble. If by the time the DQ was shared the bets are cleared, then yeah you can take the money out and there is nothing that they can do, at most they can credit your account with whatever minus you withdrew, but if you took it out and not play there again then it would be fine.

The real trouble for gamblers starts with places that didn't pay by then, if the payment hasn't happened yet because of FIA investigation, then it means it was not rewarded, and there are two places I know that made their bettors wait until the resolve and that is why we have seen them not getting paid. Long story short, this result depends on where you played, but most bookmakers are just fine with it anyways.

[takuma sato]

A lot of people lost a lot of money today because betting on a top 5 for Ferrari is a common gamble in the markets, and this bet has been blown out now with the DQ's, assuming the brokers have not paid yet. Which is an interesting question. What % has been paid and what didn't on this bet? What happens if you bet on Hamilton 5th, you win and make the money, but then the FIA decides to rever this and now he is like 19th? The broker paid you the money, do they have legal grounds to ask that you give them your money back + what you lost on the wrong bet? how does these things get settled? fortunately I have never had this problem of betting on something that then gets reverted.

I have never faced such a situation. But as far as I know, once the bet is settled, the bettor can immediately cash out and the bookmakers will not have a problem with it anymore, even when the FIA ​​later revises the results. If there are bookmakers who have a problem with the bet just because the FIA ​​revises the results, I think it is a red flag, and there is no need to bet on such a platform anymore.

Depends on the bookmaker or the place you gamble. If by the time the DQ was shared the bets are cleared, then yeah you can take the money out and there is nothing that they can do, at most they can credit your account with whatever minus you withdrew, but if you took it out and not play there again then it would be fine.

The real trouble for gamblers starts with places that didn't pay by then, if the payment hasn't happened yet because of FIA investigation, then it means it was not rewarded, and there are two places I know that made their bettors wait until the resolve and that is why we have seen them not getting paid. Long story short, this result depends on where you played, but most bookmakers are just fine with it anyways.

Interesting. I wonder if there is any legislation at play that would grant you the rights to keep the money even if there is a DQ and if the bookmaker website takes it away from you, you could demand that they return the funds or else they may have a lawsuit coming. Im assuming bookmakers know their legislation and don't do this if they cannot do it. It would also be interesting to know what legislation applies, the legislation of the user of the legislation where the company is registered at. I would assume advanced regulations like EU protect the users above these websites so I think you may be able to get the money in all cases if you are from some developed jurisdiction.
In any case the best practice is to get the money out immediately after a win.

[coinlocket$]

And now more people are reporting the news.
Liam Lawson will be probably kicked out from Redbull to Visa cash up in the Japanese Weekend.

This time is from Telegraaf, very reliable source.

Tsunoda will be promoted and Lawson demoted only after 2 weeks.

[retreat]

There have been many rumors circulating that Tsunoda will replace Lawson at the upcoming Japanese GP. Lawson is expected to be dropped in the upcoming race due to his very poor performance at the beginning of this season. This decision was taken after considering many things, especially when Yuki's performance was better than Lawson who was in a better car, that was a strong reason why Red Bull's top brass wanted to immediately replace Lawson before he caused more serious losses for RedBull.

Although there has been no official statement, I will first congratulate Yuki who has entered RedBull, hopefully he can withstand the pressure at Red Bull and can be a better partner for Max.

[coinlocket$]

Have you seen the virals video are coming out?
Basically FIA weight the cars after the race like they are at the end the race.

So drivers are exploing this how?
After the race drivers goes over the track to get marbles and dirt.

Since tires are super hot they are sticky and a lot of debris will be stuck there increasing the minimal weight and pass the balance test.

[Volgastallion]

Are we gonna still dont see the elephant in the room? Are we gonna act like that is not between us and act like we are blind?

I mean, is clearly after so many drivers were second drivers at redbull that the problem is not tht driver, is the team or better to say is what the team does to the second driver. How can all the drivers who put his ass in that seat start to make horribles performance? Is because of the pressure the teams brings on? or is because they give you a not so good car and all the proper teamwork and piece are in the first driver car?.

I start to believe the second....

[Velvet78]

Yup...  Maybe Ferrari should give Christian Horner another call and up the ante, give him a more enticing offer. 

And yeah, heard that one today too.  I think if Tsunoda does well and finishes at 10th place or better then we'll prolly see the move be permanent and he will be Red Bull's second driver.  Would that be against the rules?  To change drivers with the sister team in the middle of the season or they really need to drop Lawson and get Tsunoda?

Yeah they won't do good with Vasseur it seems like. Horner would be a really good replacement. 

As far as I know it isn't against the rules. Red Bull can make such change whenever they want. Lawson is really disappointed because of the decision. Because it was only 2 races. If Tsunoda's arrival also doesn't change things much then good luck to them for the rest of the season!

Are we gonna still dont see the elephant in the room? Are we gonna act like that is not between us and act like we are blind?

I mean, is clearly after so many drivers were second drivers at redbull that the problem is not tht driver, is the team or better to say is what the team does to the second driver. How can all the drivers who put his ass in that seat start to make horribles performance? Is because of the pressure the teams brings on? or is because they give you a not so good car and all the proper teamwork and piece are in the first driver car?.

I start to believe the second....

People have always been in doubt about not giving a decent car to the second driver. It is still a mystery but I believe there is really some difference between the cars. But I don't feel like there is such a gap that can cause Lawson to struggle insanely.

[coinlocket$]

Are we gonna still dont see the elephant in the room? Are we gonna act like that is not between us and act like we are blind?

I mean, is clearly after so many drivers were second drivers at redbull that the problem is not tht driver, is the team or better to say is what the team does to the second driver. How can all the drivers who put his ass in that seat start to make horribles performance? Is because of the pressure the teams brings on? or is because they give you a not so good car and all the proper teamwork and piece are in the first driver car?.

I start to believe the second....

Red bull is building the car for Verstappen that is.
Verstappen requires a super snappy car with a lot of understear.
He has a unique style of driving and so far none was able to drive the car with that setup.

[Distraction]

Perez was actually able to do a good job for many years when he was driving for Red Bull. He was finishing the seasons in top 3. But something happened in 2024 and he was terrible. Do you think it was due to having a bad car or his fault completely?

I mean maybe Red Bull started to put a wider gap between Verstappen's and the 2nd driver's cars since then.    But Perez wasn't at least as horrible as Lawson. I believe in Tsunoda more to improve truthfully. He is a more competitive driver.

[joniboini]

Since tires are super hot they are sticky and a lot of debris will be stuck there increasing the minimal weight and pass the balance test.

How much weigh do they gain from doing this? Can they gain more than 1 kilogram? Sounds like a ridiculous oversight if collecting some debris is enough to add some weight to pass the weight limit. But I read that they will lower this requirement in the near future, maybe they won't do it then.

Perez was actually able to do a good job for many years when he was driving for Red Bull. He was finishing the seasons in top 3. But something happened in 2024 and he was terrible. Do you think it was due to having a bad car or his fault completely?

I just read a news article that says he's going back to F1 with a new team, CMIIW. If this is true and he's back and if he performs well, I guess we can say that Red Bull doesn't give him the best.

[coinlocket$]

How much weigh do they gain from doing this? Can they gain more than 1 kilogram? Sounds like a ridiculous oversight if collecting some debris is enough to add some weight to pass the weight limit. But I read that they will lower this requirement in the near future, maybe they won't do it then.

Even if is it only 1 KG, I assume is more since they have 4 tyres, even if is only lets say 2/100 per lap advantage for having less weight.
Do the math, 2/100 per lap for 50 lap is 1 second.

Not so bad.

Meanwhile is official, Tsunona promoted to Redbull, Lawson demoted.

[tokeweed]

Liam Lwason could be already kicked out from RedBull.
Red Bull is considering replacing him with Yuki Tsunoda after only 2 races.
It could be an imminent decision effect immediately before the Japan's GP.

This is not the 1st time Redbull is going for a dramatic decision, they already did in the past with deVries and Gasly.

Yup..  And as I've already said in a post above yours, Red Bull could make Tsunoda's move to the first team permanent if does well in the race and at quali.  And I'm not really sure what the guys at Red Bull are thinking by getting Lawson on first rather than Tsunoda.  He's been with the second team long enough to be given a shot at the first team.

Anyway, yeah...  Can't wait for the Japanese GP.  Suzuka is one of the best tracks out there imho.  I hope it doesn't rain tho.  Please not in Suzuka... 

[retreat]

Are we gonna still dont see the elephant in the room? Are we gonna act like that is not between us and act like we are blind?

I mean, is clearly after so many drivers were second drivers at redbull that the problem is not tht driver, is the team or better to say is what the team does to the second driver. How can all the drivers who put his ass in that seat start to make horribles performance? Is because of the pressure the teams brings on? or is because they give you a not so good car and all the proper teamwork and piece are in the first driver car?.

I start to believe the second....

We cannot deny that Red Bull has taken the approach of prioritizing the main driver over the second driver. However, even though there is a difference between the cars driven by Max and Lawson, it should not be that far apart, because Red Bull also wants both of their drivers to be able to give maximum performance for them. Most likely it was Lawson who could not stand the pressure given by the team to him, so that he became stressed and caused his performance to decline. But why should he be pitied? Being an F1 driver is not for crybabies, there are many other drivers who want his seat, if he can't stand it, then he will be replaced quickly.

[Volgastallion]

Lawson is gonne and now we are gonna see how again how good he is in the racing bulls car, and Tsunoda maybe have a few good races and after start to vanish like all the other drivers in that seat. Or maybe he is a Lawson 2.0 and starts bad also.

I dont know what to expect, but if Tsunoda is Tsunoda i can see him crashing a few times this season.

[Velvet78]

Anyway, yeah...  Can't wait for the Japanese GP.  Suzuka is one of the best tracks out there imho.  I hope it doesn't rain tho.  Please not in Suzuka... 

A great start to the season by a series of events in the Australian GP but a boring race in China right after... But anyways, I'm also looking forward to the race in Suzuka. 

If it rains there then we should take Verstappen danger into account. Because this is the only way he can do something impressive with that slow car. 

Now as it is official to put Tsunoda in Red Bull seat, I'm more interested. I wonder when he will start driving the car to get used to it.

[coinlocket$]

oh guess what a rumor is coming out not..
You know Tsunona is from Japan.
Honda is rumored to pay a 8 figure sum to Redbull YEARLY now to secure Yuki spot in the team.

The rumor is not only for the big team but also for the side team Visa Cash App, even if it will be probably lower.

Follow the money.