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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1195370 times)
tonych
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September 25, 2019, 05:13:20 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4)
 #22001

Version 2.8.0 released and it brings a few nice updates https://github.com/byteball/obyte-gui-wallet/releases

* Witnesses are now shown with their names and a URL to learn more information about them and make an informed choice:






* Dollar amounts are now displayed when sending coins.  It works for Bytes and other tokens for which exchange rates are available:




* Badges are now displayed on history tab when new payments are received:




* Arabic translation added, other translations improved:




* Fixed a bug that prevented the app from starting on Android 4.4.


The updates are not big, most of the development efforts currently go to autonomous agents on testnet.

Simplicity is beauty
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September 25, 2019, 07:55:51 PM
 #22002

I'm interested in testing some coins. Which are the methods to gather some?
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September 26, 2019, 11:52:41 AM
 #22003

i be told the private coins unlisted from the exchange  Huh
tarmo888
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September 26, 2019, 12:22:26 PM
 #22004

i be told the private coins unlisted from the exchange  Huh

Blackbytes never listed on centralized exchanges, only listed on https://blackbytes.io/
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September 26, 2019, 08:34:06 PM
 #22005

i be told the private coins unlisted from the exchange  Huh

Blackbytes never listed on centralized exchanges, only listed on https://blackbytes.io/

I often wonder when will blackbytes have a decent trading volume in that site you mentioned. I personally like blackbytes, but how can I pay someone with it when it is not easily convertible. And anything needing a private transaction is very valuable and expensive. Maybe Obyte lead team should look into it - re: trading and adoption.


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tarmo888
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September 26, 2019, 09:36:41 PM
 #22006

i be told the private coins unlisted from the exchange  Huh

Blackbytes never listed on centralized exchanges, only listed on https://blackbytes.io/

I often wonder when will blackbytes have a decent trading volume in that site you mentioned. I personally like blackbytes, but how can I pay someone with it when it is not easily convertible. And anything needing a private transaction is very valuable and expensive. Maybe Obyte lead team should look into it - re: trading and adoption.

You are asking multiple things from it: high volumes and privacy. Blackbytes are not really suitable as speculative asset because they should be only traded P2P without any middlemen between. Otherwise it would loose its privacy features if large volume would go through some single entity.
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September 29, 2019, 03:19:48 PM
 #22007

Blackbytes never listed on centralized exchanges, only listed on https://blackbytes.io/

Hello!

I just tried to place an order for selling blackbytes for a certain ratio.

When i want to transfer the blackbytes to the bots address i get an error message:
"Too many messages, try sending a smaller amount"

What's going wrong here??

Thx and regards,
djoser.

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tarmo888
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September 29, 2019, 04:04:10 PM
 #22008

Blackbytes never listed on centralized exchanges, only listed on https://blackbytes.io/

Hello!

I just tried to place an order for selling blackbytes for a certain ratio.

When i want to transfer the blackbytes to the bots address i get an error message:
"Too many messages, try sending a smaller amount"

What's going wrong here??

Thx and regards,
djoser.

Blackbytes have denominations like banknotes. Each message describes how much banknotes should be sent from previously unspent outputs. Each storage unit (transaction) can have limited number of messages, so you should place an order in smaller amounts because you have probably too many different unspent outputs and denominations.
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September 29, 2019, 04:53:33 PM
 #22009

Thank you for your explaination.

Unfortunately this is very unsatisfying situation.

I wanted to sell (send) BB from exactly 10 UXTOs.
This is already too much?? Really?

How can i determine the denomination of a single unspend transaction?

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tarmo888
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September 29, 2019, 11:03:55 PM
 #22010

Thank you for your explaination.

Unfortunately this is very unsatisfying situation.

I wanted to sell (send) BB from exactly 10 UXTOs.
This is already too much?? Really?

How can i determine the denomination of a single unspend transaction?

Not sure how to see UTXOs or denominations of blackbytes, I think it is not displayed anywhere in app. What you can see is how much blackbytes you have on different addresses of currently selected wallet, for that you need to click gear icon on home screen, then Advanced and then Wallet information and then scroll down to Balance by Addresses.
JesusCryptos
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October 04, 2019, 08:54:59 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #22011

It is so painful to watch such a good project getting down to the most trivial level by distributing bytes through a lottery. Among all the ways I could think at, this is probably the stupidest. It does NOT create adoption. It doesn't motivate anyone intelligent to do anything useful for the project, as only idiots with zero understanding of probabilities believe they can win at a lottery.
It pisses off 99.99% of the holders who never win - which means every week they feel they always lose. Thank you Obyte. Psychology anyone? Obyte may have superb coders, but certainly when it comes to notions of psychology it totally sucks. Zero. Nada. Nichts. ничeгo. 没什么
Other projects out there, like Hedera Hashgraph, have prepared accurate decades-long plans for distributing their coins and achieve decentralization. It's amazing how accurate such plans are (this doesn't mean that their plans don't have flaws, which they have, but at least it's a well thought plan)
I know your objection that you ALSO have good plans of distribution - tech bounties etc.
Fine, then stop with the stupid lottery nonsense and expand your bounty plans. Or try to onboard big institutions and fund them with bytes. Or if you really cannot think at new useful ways to distribute bytes then PAY with bytes people who CAN.
Since you are coders you can think only at making bounties for coders - how stupid can a genious be? Make bounties for the tasks you are totally incompetent for!

Have you ever heard of unknown unknowns? You seem to be rather blind towards the things you ignore - ie you even ignore that you ignore them. Otherwise you would have set bounty programs time ago to reward people able to do what you obviously can't. Or perhaps, as coders you intimately despise any skills which is not connected to coding - and this is why you'd pay bounties only for coders.
So childish.
So first of all please abolish this stupid, useless lottery which is harming the project by waisting bytes that could be spent usefully.
Second of all, pay me a bounty for having suggesting you one first right thing to do.
My two cents - or bytes.

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tarmo888
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October 04, 2019, 11:28:15 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #22012

It is so painful to watch such a good project getting down to the most trivial level by distributing bytes through a lottery. Among all the ways I could think at, this is probably the stupidest. It does NOT create adoption. It doesn't motivate anyone intelligent to do anything useful for the project, as only idiots with zero understanding of probabilities believe they can win at a lottery.
It pisses off 99.99% of the holders who never win - which means every week they feel they always lose. Thank you Obyte. Psychology anyone? Obyte may have superb coders, but certainly when it comes to notions of psychology it totally sucks. Zero. Nada. Nichts. ничeгo. 没什么
Other projects out there, like Hedera Hashgraph, have prepared accurate decades-long plans for distributing their coins and achieve decentralization. It's amazing how accurate such plans are (this doesn't mean that their plans don't have flaws, which they have, but at least it's a well thought plan)
I know your objection that you ALSO have good plans of distribution - tech bounties etc.
Fine, then stop with the stupid lottery nonsense and expand your bounty plans. Or try to onboard big institutions and fund them with bytes. Or if you really cannot think at new useful ways to distribute bytes then PAY with bytes people who CAN.
Since you are coders you can think only at making bounties for coders - how stupid can a genious be? Make bounties for the tasks you are totally incompetent for!

Have you ever heard of unknown unknowns? You seem to be rather blind towards the things you ignore - ie you even ignore that you ignore them. Otherwise you would have set bounty programs time ago to reward people able to do what you obviously can't. Or perhaps, as coders you intimately despise any skills which is not connected to coding - and this is why you'd pay bounties only for coders.
So childish.
So first of all please abolish this stupid, useless lottery which is harming the project by waisting bytes that could be spent usefully.
Second of all, pay me a bounty for having suggesting you one first right thing to do.
My two cents - or bytes.


The funds are not meant to give away to institutions, they are meant to be distributed to users. There is around 10% for Obyte Foundation and around 20% for distributing to users left. Just giving large amount to some business for free would look even worse to the community. They can afford to buy the Bytes like everybody else, GBYTE is on sale for quite cheap at the moment.

Do you have proof (actual data) that draw airdrop is harming the project or that's just your opinion?

* Newsflash, draw airdrop doesn't happen every week, it's after every 2 weeks. It is not pointless, it motivates people to hold the bytes, exactly what some people asked for, a motivation to hold.
* Developer contest for Autonomous agents happens also after every 2 weeks. Draw airdrop happens on one week, the developer contest the next week, which makes the distribution fund burn for these 2 distributions around 300 GB per week. This distribution is for people who actually do stuff, but there isn't many of those people, I guess nobody wants to do anything to get free bytes.
* Around 2-3 GB per day is distributed on World Community Grid for people who voluntarily help to do the science calculations https://wcg.report/
* Then there is grants program, which is not only for developers, anyone can write a proposal project document, but not many do. I guess it is too much work to actually do something that would benefit the community, everybody just wants stuff for free. https://medium.com/obyte/byteball-grants-program-906a71b93d3c
* There is also Real Name attestation, on which anybody can get their document verified and a private KYC profile into their wallet app. Distribution funds are used to pay Jumio for doing this, give reward to users for doing this and reward users who invite others to do it.

These 5 distribution methods are not the only ones, but they are probably the biggest at the moment. You can come up with better methods and share it with the community, but you probably won't come up with anything better (more viral and less abused) https://medium.com/obyte/distribution-methods-revisited-we-need-you-b0a38800b722

All I can see is that you think that somebody should just give you free bytes for actually not doing anything really, just for writing a random misinformed Bitcointalk post.
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October 05, 2019, 12:28:16 AM
 #22013

So, once again, what were the reasons for choosing lottery over equal distribution to holders? I wasn't following the discussion if there was one but I'm sure there were some solid points for such decision.
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October 05, 2019, 01:58:49 AM
 #22014

So, once again, what were the reasons for choosing lottery over equal distribution to holders? I wasn't following the discussion if there was one but I'm sure there were some solid points for such decision.

Don't know the exact reasons, but here are possible reasons:
* the goal of the distribution fund is NOT to spend it as fast as possible. long distribution is preferred because long distribution will give free bytes to more users than just some early adopters.
* Bitcoin airdrop showed that distributing equally to all based on how much they already had didn't create adoption, just more sell off.
* the bigger the lottery reward in real world the more participants it usually draws into it. this worked in the beginning, but new participants on Draw Airdrop has stalled now.
* draw airdrop has predictable 200-400 GB cost after each 2 weeks.
* there are around 500 000 addresses with any history on Obyte.
* each storage unit fits around 100 payment transactions.
* the fee for 500 000 addresses would be up to 275MB (depending how many transactions in each unit and how much to set the minimum balance for airdrop).
* sending transaction to all addresses would waste up to 275MB of every full node disk space.
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October 05, 2019, 08:26:39 AM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #22015

The funds are not meant to give away to institutions, they are meant to be distributed to users.

I didn't think I should explain it in full, but since you don't get it I will. Obyte's original plan was to have institutions to act as witnesses. Ask Tonych if you don't believe it. This is difficult, as Tonych lately said. Nevertheless, this goal should still be pursued. Offering bytes to them could ease things. Anyway, they would not accept them if they are not interested, since they wouldn't understand the usefulness of accepting.  It is written "distribution do Institution" but it reads "onboarding institution."

Do you have proof (actual data) that draw airdrop is harming the project or that's just your opinion?

Only my skills in logic, but I understand this will sound very mysterious to you.
As of the argument that it is not producing adoption - which is actually my point - this is self evident, all the bytes go to single people who have already adopted Obyte, which means zero new adopters added.

* draw airdrop [...] motivates people to hold the bytes, exactly what some people asked for, a motivation to hold.

Yes, it will motivate idiots. You are a dev I guess, have you ever heard of the laws of probability? Lotteries appeal only to VERY stupid people who can't understand probabilities. You have usually a higher chance of getting in a car accident than to win at a lottery - so to base your actions on the hope to win a lottery is totally stupid. Moreover, why would you have to win a "positive" lottery? Perhaps the lottery you end up winning a negative lottery instead - ie the car accident one. So my question now is: is Obyte's plan that of selecting idiots as preferred holders? I guess you know how natural selection works.
By the way, I am holding my bytes - but NOT because of the lottery. In spite of the lottery. I hold bytes because I believe in the project, which is NOT a stupid reason to hold bytes - as it instead would be the lottery reason.

* Developer contest for Autonomous agents happens also after every 2 weeks.
* Around 2-3 GB per day is distributed on World Community Grid
* There is also Real Name attestation

I have acknowledged that there are good ways of distribution, and I deeply respect that. I was just asking for more in substitution of the idiotic way. If there is no new good way, just keep the bytes until a good way appears. I've mentioned the Hedera Hashgraph example for a good reason: patience is an option.

* Then there is grants program, which is not only for developers, anyone can write a proposal project document, but not many do. I guess it is too much work to actually do something that would benefit the community, everybody just wants stuff for free. https://medium.com/obyte/byteball-grants-program-906a71b93d3c

I have to admit I was unaware of the grants for non-developers and I apologize for that. Happy to hear there is this option. Perhaps this part should be put in better evidence for the community.

You can come up with better methods and share it with the community, but you probably won't come up with anything better (more viral and less abused)

If I'll get any precise idea I surely will. I agree it is not easy. The only easy thing to do is to abolish the stupid lottery.

All I can see is that you think that somebody should just give you free bytes for actually not doing anything really, just for writing a random misinformed Bitcointalk post.

You are a dev but you can't properly read or count or both or more likely you may have problems to understand what you've read. Read again. Read better. I've been asking just for 2 bytes - or 2 cents, at your choice. It's probably one of the rare cases in Obyte where to send this "free money" has higher fees that the value of what you would be actually sending.

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October 05, 2019, 09:00:39 AM
 #22016

Talking to tarmo888 is a waste of time. There's zero chance he will change his mind. It has never happened before and it will never happen. The only thing that always happens is a toxic discussion, name calling and eventually invectives. It always happened before and will always happen. With anybody trying. Again. And again. No matter the arguments you will come up with. It's better to spend your time on something more enjoyable. You can send me 2 cents for saving you time and preventing debilitating frustration.


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October 05, 2019, 06:43:35 PM
 #22017

Well, I don't think any current style of distribution works toward adoption. It is a catch-22 situation. What is the use of having a bit of bytes if no one will accept it as payment or you can't spend it anywhere. It is the reason the Bitcoin holder airdrop failed because they don't value the airdrop coins. Maybe some big partnership is needed before any distribution is continued.


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365

TM

EZ365 is a digital ecosystem that combines
the best aspects of online gaming, cryptocurrency
trading
and blockchain education. ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

..WHITEPAPER..    ..INVESTOR PITCH..

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Learn
coinpreacher
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October 05, 2019, 08:54:29 PM
 #22018

Should be started from scratch.

Same code, but with at least one person understanding marketing. Restart as a stable coin pegged to eur / us / Y or something.

Coca Cola just puts regular water into plastic bottles and the enduser price is x10. If you don't how to turn your product into something
valuable: ask a professional.

Sorry guys, english is not my first language ...
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October 06, 2019, 06:40:50 PM
Last edit: October 07, 2019, 01:25:40 AM by tarmo888
Merited by tyz (1)
 #22019

The funds are not meant to give away to institutions, they are meant to be distributed to users.
I didn't think I should explain it in full, but since you don't get it I will. Obyte's original plan was to have institutions to act as witnesses. Ask Tonych if you don't believe it. This is difficult, as Tonych lately said. Nevertheless, this goal should still be pursued. Offering bytes to them could ease things. Anyway, they would not accept them if they are not interested, since they wouldn't understand the usefulness of accepting.  It is written "distribution do Institution" but it reads "onboarding institution."
That's makes even less sense. Your great idea is that we should pay companies to become witnesses? Like that is somehow going to work out great.
Or are you suggesting we should cover the fees of doing the witnesses? I am afraid you haven't even researched how witnessing works or how little is needed to run a witness.


* draw airdrop [...] motivates people to hold the bytes, exactly what some people asked for, a motivation to hold.

Yes, it will motivate idiots. You are a dev I guess, have you ever heard of the laws of probability? Lotteries appeal only to VERY stupid people who can't understand probabilities. You have usually a higher chance of getting in a car accident than to win at a lottery - so to base your actions on the hope to win a lottery is totally stupid. Moreover, why would you have to win a "positive" lottery? Perhaps the lottery you end up winning a negative lottery instead - ie the car accident one. So my question now is: is Obyte's plan that of selecting idiots as preferred holders? I guess you know how natural selection works.
By the way, I am holding my bytes - but NOT because of the lottery. In spite of the lottery. I hold bytes because I believe in the project, which is NOT a stupid reason to hold bytes - as it instead would be the lottery reason.
Seems like you just have heard somewhere that lottery is stupid and now applying it to everything that mentions lottery, but Draw Airdrop mentions lottery just because it has elements of lottery, but is nothing like actual lottery.

Draw airdrop doesn't have the same risks that regular lotteries have. Normal lottery is stupid because there is almost certain downside of loosing the ticket price and unlikely chance of winning.
Regular lottery is stupid because you lose $1 and you have 1 of million chance of winning $1 million (minus taxes), you could just donate to government directly instead of participating in lottery.
Draw airdrop, it doesn't cost you anything to participate and you have 1 of 5500 chance of winning 100GB or 1 of 550 chance of winning 100GB if you have done Real Name attestation, which is not comparable how bad regular lottery is. Your only risk is that GBYTE value can go down.


I have acknowledged that there are good ways of distribution, and I deeply respect that. I was just asking for more in substitution of the idiotic way. If there is no new good way, just keep the bytes until a good way appears. I've mentioned the Hedera Hashgraph example for a good reason: patience is an option.
Cannot please everyone, some say that the distribution fund should be spent faster, some say it should be on hold. I think it should have predictable distribution rate, that's probably why the draw airdrop was not totally cancelled, but reduced by exactly the amount that the new distribution, developer contest, spends every 2 weeks. So, the distribution rate would stay the same.


Do you have proof (actual data) that draw airdrop is harming the project or that's just your opinion?
Only my skills in logic, but I understand this will sound very mysterious to you.
As of the argument that it is not producing adoption - which is actually my point - this is self evident, all the bytes go to single people who have already adopted Obyte, which means zero new adopters added.
That's a sh1tty excuse for not doing some research. Actually data is always more important than somebody's opinion. Opinions are like assh0les, everyone has one.
One look at CoinmarketCap and you could have said something smart like: "changing the draw airdrop from every week to every 2 weeks has reduced the trading volume", but you didn't do that. I bet you could not run a successful company by just counting on your gut feeling and not the data. I don't have any data that draw lottery raises or lowers the price, it just seems it affects the volume.

* Then there is grants program, which is not only for developers, anyone can write a proposal project document, but not many do. I guess it is too much work to actually do something that would benefit the community, everybody just wants stuff for free. https://medium.com/obyte/byteball-grants-program-906a71b93d3c
I have to admit I was unaware of the grants for non-developers and I apologize for that. Happy to hear there is this option. Perhaps this part should be put in better evidence for the community.
Another example that you are not into doing some research first before voicing your opinion.


Second of all, pay me a bounty for having suggesting you one first right thing to do.
My two cents - or bytes.
All I can see is that you think that somebody should just give you free bytes for actually not doing anything really, just for writing a random misinformed Bitcointalk post.
You are a dev but you can't properly read or count or both or more likely you may have problems to understand what you've read. Read again. Read better. I've been asking just for 2 bytes - or 2 cents, at your choice. It's probably one of the rare cases in Obyte where to send this "free money" has higher fees that the value of what you would be actually sending.
I think it is you who has problems with reading and writing, you literally say that somebody should pay you a bounty for Bitcointalk post.
"My two cents" expression is used to state that you had an opinion, not how much the bounty should be. Learn English and don't use expressions which you don't have idea when to use them!
tarmo888
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October 07, 2019, 02:02:58 AM
 #22020

Talking to tarmo888 is a waste of time. There's zero chance he will change his mind. It has never happened before and it will never happen. The only thing that always happens is a toxic discussion, name calling and eventually invectives. It always happened before and will always happen. With anybody trying. Again. And again. No matter the arguments you will come up with. It's better to spend your time on something more enjoyable. You can send me 2 cents for saving you time and preventing debilitating frustration.

Not any arguments, bring on the good arguments. Preferably something backed with data, not just opinions, we have internally bunch of opinions too, which are quite useless if they can't be proved.

You used to post normal posts, but it seems that it is you who has turned toxic lately. All you do now is post animated gifs and FUD. Maybe you are pissed that you bags are worthless now, but I can't see how posting FUD will help that, seems like you are digging bigger crave to your bags with every new FUD post.
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