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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1216663 times)
Thul
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December 03, 2018, 01:15:59 PM
 #21081

Trust.Zone, an anonymous VPN service, now accepts payments in Byteball Bytes.  Private, secure and anonymous browsing, with a 10% discount for Byte holdersCool

>> https://trust.zone/ <<

KYC Byteball sheep do not need anonymous VPN service.  Grin
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December 03, 2018, 01:29:17 PM
 #21082

Trust.Zone, an anonymous VPN service, now accepts payments in Byteball Bytes.  Private, secure and anonymous browsing, with a 10% discount for Byte holdersCool

>> https://trust.zone/ <<

KYC Byteball sheep do not need anonymous VPN service.  Grin

This service has to be in the Ann thread!
Not that many things are tradeable with Byteball.
Has anyone tried it?
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December 03, 2018, 05:59:28 PM
Last edit: December 03, 2018, 07:44:38 PM by tarmo888
 #21083

I'd like to resume the discussion on the theme of the default unit of Byteball, since Tony has finally made his point on this in the recent AMA session on Reddit, which people can fully read here:

https://np.reddit.com/r/ByteBall/comments/9yfbvt/i_am_tony_byteball_founder_and_lead_developer_ask/

I had expressed my opinion in June in this post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg40547826#msg40547826

and this is Tony's opinion as expressed during the AMA:

Quote
It would be unthinkable for Bitcoin to change their SI base unit, so altcoin changing it would look even more scammy. Imagin Bitcoin changing from BTC to mBTC, priced under dollar and listing total supply as 21 000 000 000 mBTC. People should be educated to read total supply and display units instead.

So, without changing the supply size, everybody (exchange, bot, user) can still decide individually what display unit makes most sense for them. Exchanges have decided for GBYTE, most bots for MBYTE. New user wallets start with Byte, but users can pick anything they like.

Base unit is Byte because on code level, if you want to send amounts, you need to convert amounts into Byte. Same is for Bitcoin satoshi and Ethereum wei.


What are you quoting is my opinion, not Tony's. OP on Reddit is the one who has the microphone icon behind their user handle. User who asked a question about unit sizes never got a reply from Tony, so I answered to 1 of 3 questions that this user asked. Their other 2 questions were in form of "When?", which I guess why they didn't get answered.

Since you missed that and trimmed first part of my answer, I am guessing you didn't get what I wrote you, so here same answer told in different way (maybe makes more sense):

GBYTE and BTC are the units that exchanges have decided to you and that's what is on CMC and it's this unit because that's how total supply is defined. Bitcoin decided for 21 million BTC and Byteball decided 1 million GBYTE. If you would change that unit on CMC to MByte, you would need to change the unit for total supply, so 1 000 000 GBYTE to 1 000 000 000 MBYTE. That would make Byteball to have 1 billion supply, which automatically would look shitty for some users because Bitcoin only has 21 million supply. But those who argue that price looks expensive, doesn't understand that it is normal to have higher price if supply is small.

Another thing you do not understand, it is up to exchanges and app developers to choose which unit they want to use, that makes most sense for them and their users. Bitcoin has thought about that, Litecoin too, many good Bitcoin wallets even have an option to change the units in the wallet the same way like Byteball does.

Some cryptocurrencies like Nano have not even thought about it yet, so they are wondering if they should change it now because it is not user-friendly for users to pay in amounts that have decimal places. https://www.reddit.com/r/nanocurrency/comments/9zqr03/weekend_discussion_shifting_the_decimal_place/

Good Bitcoin wallets and Byteball wallet doesn't have to do that, this feature is already built-in. Changing a base SI unit would be step backwards into 90s, that is not how the units displaying should work.

If you would be developer then you would understand that Byteball works the same as Bitcoin and Ethereum, in code you use only bytes, like on Bitcoin you use satoshis and on Ethereum you use wei. This enables the dapp or bot developer to let users decided what is the unit displayed on UI.

It is not feasible to change the ticker on CMC every time price reaches some level and then drops to some other level. GBYTE is only default for CMC and existing exchanges, it is not default in any other way. And it's not about what is default, GBYTE, BTC is the unit in which the supply is defined, changing that will change how supply is displayed too.


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December 03, 2018, 06:10:26 PM
 #21084

Interesting concept. Good to see something new and innovative, not just the same thing over and over. Interested to see how this project does in a few months time.
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December 03, 2018, 08:17:44 PM
 #21085

A decentralized, non-censurable marketplace should, of course, offer products and services that are not available through the regulated Fiat markets.
This is still a real market gap, in the sense of real cryptoanarchists (yes, there should be in the flood of speculators, and in the end they are the ones who give the crypto currencies a value at all).

Cryptoanarchists (and only they can really do anything with free(!) crypto currencies) are urgently looking for a solution for an unregulated market.

The unregulated market is growing exponentially. There you only pay with crypto currencies.
Unfortunately, there are so far only centralized solutions that do not cover the full range of possibilities and are expensive and vulnerable.

Those who are not as stupid as the Byteball team and align themselves accordingly will have catapulted a clone of this project very quickly into the Top 10.

Can you name something that is not possible to buy with fiat currencies? Because, only thing that I can come up with is illegal stuff.

Blackbytes are not meant for illegal stuff, it's private because of privacy (privacy doesn't equal illegal). Cryptocurrency that has option to do public or private transactions are not 100% anonymous and not suitable for illegal stuff (use cash for that sh|t instead). It is just disaster waiting to happen for those who think they can use cryptocurrencies for illegal stuff because at some time in the future, somebody figures out how to do the analysis to link your public spendings with your private spendings, then it is just a matter of motivation for them. And we don't know if FBI/NSA can already do that or not, they have enough money to throw unlimited people at this problem (it also makes them much easier to do that because open-source).

This is same reason why Monero is not 100% anonymous because they were not anonymous from the beginning https://medium.com/cryptics/monero-not-anonymous-at-all-113c3a14c816
All cryptocurrencies are as private as they used to be (which we can know) and will be in the future (which we can't know).
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December 03, 2018, 10:02:56 PM
 #21086

I'd like to resume the discussion on the theme of the default unit of Byteball, since Tony has finally made his point on this in the recent AMA session on Reddit, which people can fully read here:

https://np.reddit.com/r/ByteBall/comments/9yfbvt/i_am_tony_byteball_founder_and_lead_developer_ask/

I had expressed my opinion in June in this post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg40547826#msg40547826

and this is Tony's opinion as expressed during the AMA:

Quote
It would be unthinkable for Bitcoin to change their SI base unit, so altcoin changing it would look even more scammy. Imagin Bitcoin changing from BTC to mBTC, priced under dollar and listing total supply as 21 000 000 000 mBTC. People should be educated to read total supply and display units instead.

So, without changing the supply size, everybody (exchange, bot, user) can still decide individually what display unit makes most sense for them. Exchanges have decided for GBYTE, most bots for MBYTE. New user wallets start with Byte, but users can pick anything they like.

Base unit is Byte because on code level, if you want to send amounts, you need to convert amounts into Byte. Same is for Bitcoin satoshi and Ethereum wei.


What are you quoting is my opinion, not Tony's. OP on Reddit is the one who has the microphone icon behind their user handle. User who asked a question about unit sizes never got a reply from Tony, so I answered to 1 of 3 questions that this user asked. Their other 2 questions were in form of "When?", which I guess why they didn't get answered.

Since you missed that and trimmed first part of my answer, I am guessing you didn't get what I wrote you, so here same answer told in different way (maybe makes more sense):

GBYTE and BTC are the units that exchanges have decided to you and that's what is on CMC and it's this unit because that's how total supply is defined. Bitcoin decided for 21 million BTC and Byteball decided 1 million GBYTE. If you would change that unit on CMC to MByte, you would need to change the unit for total supply, so 1 000 000 GBYTE to 1 000 000 000 MBYTE. That would make Byteball to have 1 billion supply, which automatically would look shitty for some users because Bitcoin only has 21 million supply. But those who argue that price looks expensive, doesn't understand that it is normal to have higher price if supply is small.

Another thing you do not understand, it is up to exchanges and app developers to choose which unit they want to use, that makes most sense for them and their users. Bitcoin has thought about that, Litecoin too, many good Bitcoin wallets even have an option to change the units in the wallet the same way like Byteball does.

Some cryptocurrencies like Nano have not even thought about it yet, so they are wondering if they should change it now because it is not user-friendly for users to pay in amounts that have decimal places. https://www.reddit.com/r/nanocurrency/comments/9zqr03/weekend_discussion_shifting_the_decimal_place/

Good Bitcoin wallets and Byteball wallet doesn't have to do that, this feature is already built-in. Changing a base SI unit would be step backwards into 90s, that is not how the units displaying should work.

If you would be developer then you would understand that Byteball works the same as Bitcoin and Ethereum, in code you use only bytes, like on Bitcoin you use satoshis and on Ethereum you use wei. This enables the dapp or bot developer to let users decided what is the unit displayed on UI.

It is not feasible to change the ticker on CMC every time price reaches some level and then drops to some other level. GBYTE is only default for CMC and existing exchanges, it is not default in any other way. And it's not about what is default, GBYTE, BTC is the unit in which the supply is defined, changing that will change how supply is displayed too.




Sorry to have mistunderstood you for Tony on Reddit, since the AMA was with him I thought it was him to answer the questions.

Thank you for having dedicated time to try to explain me your point, but from your answer I understand that you have totally missed mine.

Quote
It is not feasible to change the ticker on CMC every time price reaches some level
How do I have to say that the price is the least of my concerns? I'm repeating it in every post of mine but then people answer again and again as if the focus of my argument were just the price. It's a problem of semantics and of cognitive dissonance, but it seems that people here understand only about coding and pricing and are totally blind to any bigger picture. And IF the problem I'm raising is real, then to discharge the responsability of it on the exchanges is tragically childish. Problems must be addressed, not justified.

Quote
If you would be developer then you would understand...
If you would NOT be developer then you would PERHAPS understand that to create "A cryptocurrency platform ready for real world adoption" is a complex task that goes far beyond coding and if you stay in denial of that and don't get into the team people who can see beyond coding, then.. well, good luck, you're gonna need it.

If by any chance you are really interested to understand what I'm talking about, and which you didn't address in your answer, you may want to read my June's post:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg40547826#msg40547826


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December 03, 2018, 10:49:38 PM
Last edit: December 03, 2018, 11:20:21 PM by tarmo888
 #21087

Sorry to have mistunderstood you for Tony on Reddit, since the AMA was with him I thought it was him to answer the questions.

Thank you for having dedicated time to try to explain me your point, but from your answer I understand that you have totally missed mine.

Quote
It is not feasible to change the ticker on CMC every time price reaches some level
How do I have to say that the price is the least of my concerns? I'm repeating it in every post of mine but then people answer again and again as if the focus of my argument were just the price. It's a problem of semantics and of cognitive dissonance, but it seems that people here understand only about coding and pricing and are totally blind to any bigger picture. And IF the problem I'm raising is real, then to discharge the responsability of it on the exchanges is tragically childish. Problems must be addressed, not justified.

Quote
If you would be developer then you would understand...
If you would NOT be developer then you would PERHAPS understand that to create "A cryptocurrency platform ready for real world adoption" is a complex task that goes far beyond coding and if you stay in denial of that and don't get into the team people who can see beyond coding, then.. well, good luck, you're gonna need it.

If by any chance you are really interested to understand what I'm talking about, and which you didn't address in your answer, you may want to read my June's post:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg40547826#msg40547826

I read it again, but I still don't understand what the hell are you suggesting to do. If you change it from GBYTE to MBYTE, then 1USD be shown as 33.422460 MByte, instead of 0.033422460 GBYTE (or 1GBYTE = 29.92USD to 1MBYTE = 0.02992USD). So, changing the unit directly affects how the price is displayed. Are you suggesting to replace understood storage units to made up unit names like babbage, lovelace, shannon, szabo, finney, satoshi? http://ethdocs.org/en/latest/ether.html

Also, saying that you don't care about the price, but then say that it should be changed from GBYTE to MBYTE because many people can't afford GBYTE is directly connected with price because once price of MBYTE raises to hundreds, you would do this process again, because many people would never afford MBYTE then (and somebody will think it is blocking the mass-adoption again). Many people will never afford 1 BTC and it is fine because once BTC prices goes into hundreds of thousands, it would start to make sense to display prices in mBTC instead. Byteball has already taken care of that, like many good Bitcoin wallets have done it too. Byteball also starts with smallest (Byte) unit as default, not like Bitcoin wallets start with the biggest (BTC) unit as default.

And as I've explained more in detail in my June post, to think in terms of Gigabytes means to think in terms of Million of Dollars - that's not how I would design a currency seeking mass adoption. As for the people who are programming bots in MBYTE, they are a little minority of tech guys. 99% of people will stay stuck with the GBYTE unit which was chosen for them. This could result lethal for Byteball adoption. As I've said in June, I don't care about the price, I care about perception and coherency and avoiding cognitive dissonance. To seek mass adoption with a currency which unit is expressed in "million of dollars" by 99% of adopters is sheer cognitive dissonance. Comparing to Bitcoin here it makes no sense because the two coins are not peers due to Bitcoin's huge first mover advantage.

Developers are not programming bots in MBYTE, developers do it in Bytes (smallest unit for Byteball), just like Bitcoin developers do it in Satoshi (smallest unit in Bitcoin mainnet) and Ethereum developers do it in Wei (smallest unit in Ethereum blockchain). It is up to bot or exchange developer to choose, which unit makes sense for their product/services prices. Best would be if they also let users pick the unit of display, but it doesn't matter because once they click buy link or scan a QR code, Byteball wallet will show the unit that user has chosen.

If you dowload the wallet, then default unit is Bytes, GBYTE is not chosen for them, it's just CMC and exchanges.

Not sure why would somebody associate gigabytes with Millions of Dollars, giga is billion, mega is million. Most people don't associate them billions or millions, but rather with storage space, what is the whole point of bytes in Byteball (1GBYTE is roughly 1GBYTE of data in DAG).
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December 03, 2018, 11:42:18 PM
Last edit: December 04, 2018, 02:03:32 AM by tarmo888
 #21088

I see that again and again there are people here who claim that Byteball should be not be listed in Gigabytes in exchanges since this would be harming the price, because investors would perceive the high cost of one Gigabyte very expensive. I have always been against the "tactical" idea of scaling down the official unit of measurement just for the purpose to benefit the price. Tony has always stated that he is not interested in the price but in the distribution of the coin, and I have always agreed on that.

But then, I've also seen Byteball listed in Gigabytes on Coinmarketcap and something has suddenly clicked in my mind.
The fact that Byteball is measured in Gigabytes is not a problem because this is harming its price.

The fact that Byteball is measured in Gigabytes is a problem because it is crucially violating Byteball's mission number one: to achieve mass adoption.

Even though Byteball's monetary base is consisting in billions of bytes, only 650.000 Gigabytes or so are existing now, and max supply will be 1 Million.
Therefore, if you are thinking in terms of Gigabytes, mass adoption is virtually impossible. People will always feel the frustration of not being able to own even one single Gigabyte and they will likely not even take into consideration the currency. Since there are whales who own a lot of Gigabytes, people who will be able to afford one entire Gigabyte will be in the thousands - best case scenario. This is NOT mass adoption.
People will argue that something similar is happening with Bitcoin - most of the people today can afford to own only fractions of a Bitcoin. But this, in fact, is one of the main problems of Bitcoin, people have always to carefully count how many zeroes there are before the quantity of satoshis of their transactions. This is totally absurd and in fact Bitcoin today is used only as a speculative store of value, and NOT as a real currency.
Byteball aimed to be better, but if the total monetary base is consisting in just 1 Million coins the fact is that it has just AMPLIFIED 21 times this problem of Bitcoin, it has not at all solved it. There will be max 21 Million Bitcoins, and Byteball won't ever have more than one Million Gigabytes. If you are thinking in term of Gigabytes, you have just made the problem 21 times worse. And now we are thinking in terms of Gigabytes. When I'm speaking with my friend we are talking about how many Gigabytes we have, not Megabytes or Bytes. This is a mistake.

We have to think at Gigabytes as we are thinking at the Million of dollars.

The few who can afford owning the Gigabytes are the rich elite, just like those who are owning the Million of dollars. Most of the people don't own Million of dollars (or euros), they just own dollars (or euros). Perhaps thousands of Euros/Dollars ("grands"), but not Millions.
And if Byteball will achieve mass adoption most of the people won't own Gigabytes, they will just own Bytes. Or Kilobytes. If you consider bytes to be cents, then you should consider the ideal unity of Byteball being Kilobytes. Not even Megabytes. Megabytes would somehow semantically sound like the "grands" - one thousand dollars or pounds according to the urban dictionary of FIAT money.
Just as you don't buy a packet of cigarettes with 0.00001 Million of Dollars, you shouldn't have to buy it with 0.001 Gigabytes.
This all could seem a trivial problem to many, but it is not. Reality is a state of mind and perception is playing a fundamental role in the shaping of reality.
To use Gigabytes to measure Byteball generates a cognitive dissonance with the mission of achieving mass adoption. It makes feel Byteball to be an elitarian coin/platform, not a popular one. The exchanges, and more than that Coinmarketcap, are the places where the measurment unit of Byteball is officialized. If exchanges and Coinmarketcap will tell Gigabytes, people will think in Gigabytes, and this makes no sense, since in ordinary life you don't think in terms of Million of Dollars/Euros. That would be crazy. And to insist to speak about Byteball in terms of Gigabytes is crazy too. It basically makes bo sense.

As I've said, I'm not interested in the price of Byteball. In a healthy environment the price is just a natural consequence. But I am interested in seeing one little problem corrected, which alone is able to jeopardize Byteball's entire mission, since it's in complete dissonance with the "philosophy" of Byteball.

Just my two cents (or Bytes)

Byteball units vs beer units - or why it doesn't matter if GBYTE looks too expensive

In food store, you would buy a 1-3 bottles of beer (Bytes) or 6 pack (KBytes) or 12 pack (MByte).
Now, when that store buys it from wholesale, it is not buying them by 1 bottle, it might buy them in 24 packs (GByte) and open it up for people who want to buy just one beer (you don't need to buy the biggest pack of beer, you buy as much you need).
So, bots are like food store (selling smaller amounts to many individuals) and exchanges are like wholesale (selling in bulk to food stores). Difference is, every next unit on Bytebal is 1000 times bigger (like metric units for storage), not just 2 times like the beer example.

You would never go to wholesale shop and look at the 24 pack and think: "I will never afford beer". You would go to foods store and you would buy 12 beers (Byte) or two 6-pack (KByte) or one 12-pack (MByte) and you will be happy that you got beer, you will not be sad because you didn't get the biggest pack of beer (GByte).
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December 04, 2018, 12:10:13 AM
 #21089

tarmo888 do you get paid to post here? It's just kind of weird the frequency of your responses and the alignment of your opinion on all issues with that of the powers that be. Just noticed your account is only a month old or so, and I remember there was another guy that came out of the blue who would post here defending the party line, meterse, though he seems to have gone away around the time you showed up. Just curious if it's an official like "community manager" position or if you will say that you're not being compensated or what...
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December 04, 2018, 01:37:41 AM
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 #21090

tarmo888 do you get paid to post here? It's just kind of weird the frequency of your responses and the alignment of your opinion on all issues with that of the powers that be. Just noticed your account is only a month old or so, and I remember there was another guy that came out of the blue who would post here defending the party line, meterse, though he seems to have gone away around the time you showed up. Just curious if it's an official like "community manager" position or if you will say that you're not being compensated or what...

I do not get payed to post here, I am not community manager (I have already said that), I am developer who apparently understood what Byteball is about in less than year than most here in 2 years.
It doesn't matter if I confess whether I am also meterse or not (Thul could be my alter-ego too), you can't really be 100% sure either way, that's a wonderful thing about anonymous forums.

But the fact that you needed to ask that shows how less you know what is going on with Byteball. Makes me wonder, what are you guys doing here? Sitting in the dark, criticizing everything, kind of weird hobby.
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December 04, 2018, 02:26:59 AM
 #21091

tarmo888 do you get paid to post here? It's just kind of weird the frequency of your responses and the alignment of your opinion on all issues with that of the powers that be. Just noticed your account is only a month old or so, and I remember there was another guy that came out of the blue who would post here defending the party line, meterse, though he seems to have gone away around the time you showed up. Just curious if it's an official like "community manager" position or if you will say that you're not being compensated or what...

I do not get payed to post here, I am not community manager (I have already said that), I am developer who apparently understood what Byteball is about in less than year than most here in 2 years.
It doesn't matter if I confess whether I am also meterse or not (Thul could be my alter-ego too), you can't really be 100% sure either way, that's a wonderful thing about anonymous forums.

But the fact that you needed to ask that shows how less you know what is going on with Byteball. Makes me wonder, what are you guys doing here? Sitting in the dark, criticizing everything, kind of weird hobby.

Lol just trolling. I got my tonyballs for free and haven't parted with all of them yet, so for the time being I feel free license to come bust Tony's balls.

You've been repeatedly claiming recently that the airdrops were a terrible idea. Why would you support a project that has 65% or whatever of total supply distributed by a horrible technique?
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December 04, 2018, 02:39:00 AM
Last edit: December 04, 2018, 03:08:27 AM by tarmo888
 #21092

tarmo888 do you get paid to post here? It's just kind of weird the frequency of your responses and the alignment of your opinion on all issues with that of the powers that be. Just noticed your account is only a month old or so, and I remember there was another guy that came out of the blue who would post here defending the party line, meterse, though he seems to have gone away around the time you showed up. Just curious if it's an official like "community manager" position or if you will say that you're not being compensated or what...

I do not get payed to post here, I am not community manager (I have already said that), I am developer who apparently understood what Byteball is about in less than year than most here in 2 years.
It doesn't matter if I confess whether I am also meterse or not (Thul could be my alter-ego too), you can't really be 100% sure either way, that's a wonderful thing about anonymous forums.

But the fact that you needed to ask that shows how less you know what is going on with Byteball. Makes me wonder, what are you guys doing here? Sitting in the dark, criticizing everything, kind of weird hobby.

Lol just trolling. I got my tonyballs for free and haven't parted with all of them yet, so for the time being I feel free license to come bust Tony's balls.

You've been repeatedly claiming recently that the airdrops were a terrible idea. Why would you support a project that has 65% or whatever of total supply distributed by a horrible technique?

Most cryptocurrency projects have whales, what is done is done, I care that future distributions are fair and I don't care how long they take because longer it takes more wider they will be. Bitcoin has also very long distribution that lasts over 100 years. I doubt that Byteball distribution would be even 10 years, but if it is by some miracle then it means that it will have wider distribution than it has now (except when the whales are smart enough to sell high and buy low).

Byteball airdrop to Bitcoin users is good history lesson that it should not be repeated. Bitcoin has most wide distribution because it has been on the market for longest, PoW helped a little bit too when it was not mined with ASICs, but if you don't have PoW then alternative is KYC to make sure that you don't create more whales to selected few who decided to participate. That's also a reason why witnesses need to be known, because you can't have anonymous witnesses on non-PoW coin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_attack
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December 04, 2018, 08:56:40 AM
Merited by Kavallo (1)
 #21093


I read it again, but I still don't understand what the hell are you suggesting to do.


The fact that I'm raising a problem I'm aware of doesn't automatically imply I have a clear OPERATIVE solution in mind - especially since I don't know if and how you can influence CMC's and exchanges' decisions on this aspect - but since now there is a new Byteball marketing team making a project of rebranding right now perhaps this would be the best time to see if there is a feasible solution also to this problem.


Byteball also starts with smallest (Byte) unit as default, not like Bitcoin wallets start with the biggest (BTC) unit as default.


...and this is excellent. Just a pity CMC and exchanges would not adhere to the same criteria. And you have to admit this incoherency could be confusing for a newcomer.


Not sure why would somebody associate gigabytes with Millions of Dollars, giga is billion, mega is million. Most people don't associate them billions or millions, but rather with storage space, what is the whole point of bytes in Byteball (1GBYTE is roughly 1GBYTE of data in DAG).

I was speaking of symbols but you, as a developer, can obviously see only the math. Smiley But on the second point I agree, people associate Byteball units with storage space, which in my opinion is again something quite confusing for most people, even though I personally quite like that.


In food store, you would buy a 1-3 bottles of beer (Bytes) or 6 pack (KBytes) or 12 pack (MByte). ...


Finally, your example with beers is quite funny, but inconsistent, since 100% of the population has already a very clear idea of what a beer is, while 99.99999999% of the population has not the slightstest idea of what the hell a Byteball-byte is.

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December 04, 2018, 10:54:54 AM
 #21094

I was speaking of symbols but you, as a developer, can obviously see only the math. Smiley But on the second point I agree, people associate Byteball units with storage space, which in my opinion is again something quite confusing for most people, even though I personally quite like that.
Sometimes i have the same problem Roll Eyes

But the unit of cmc is a big problem.
I have many peoples attested and the different units make the people headache.
They just do not understand it or do it hard.
 
The "mass" are stupid (sorry) or do not want knowledge about computers or different byteball units.
As well nobody cares the available supply...

The beer example is good, but...
You would never go to wholesale shop and look at the 24 pack and think: "I will never afford beer". You would go to foods store and you would buy 12 beers (Byte) or two 6-pack (KByte) or one 12-pack (MByte) and you will be happy that you got beer, you will not be sad because you didn't get the biggest pack of beer (GByte).
... the "mass" think in 6-packs Cool (KByte in your example)
For the foods store is easier calc in gbyte, but not for the "mass".

"Mass" adoption is the target!
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December 04, 2018, 11:16:09 AM
Last edit: December 04, 2018, 12:52:21 PM by Thul
 #21095

"Mass" adoption is the target!
Wrong goal.
The mass remains with Fiat, paypal and credit cards... or "bite balls" emitted by the state.  Roll Eyes
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December 04, 2018, 04:53:31 PM
Last edit: December 04, 2018, 05:09:09 PM by tarmo888
 #21096

I read it again, but I still don't understand what the hell are you suggesting to do.
The fact that I'm raising a problem I'm aware of doesn't automatically imply I have a clear OPERATIVE solution in mind - especially since I don't know if and how you can influence CMC's and exchanges' decisions on this aspect - but since now there is a new Byteball marketing team making a project of rebranding right now perhaps this would be the best time to see if there is a feasible solution also to this problem.
It is best practice to have the biggest unit (the unit that the total supply is defined) listed on CMC and exchanges (wholesale). It is also a best practice to give user the option to display whatever unit they like to use in the wallet. Some Bitcoin wallets have only BTC, some have BTC and satoshi, some have BTC, mBTC (milli-bitcoin), bits and satoshis.

What is Nano doing now is showing their incompetence to use best practices. They didn't even figure out that XRB was ISO 4217 compatible, but NANO is not and now they want to fix it (that is bad example of rebranding). They still haven't figured out that XNO will not be ISO 4217 compatible because they think that adding a X in front of 2 letters makes it ISO 4217 compatible. I don't know if they have option to change display unit in wallet, probably not.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nanocurrency/comments/9zqr03/weekend_discussion_shifting_the_decimal_place/

I don't know if IOTA was listed as IOTA (smallest unit) in the beginning on CMC and some exchanges, but I would not be surprised if they did. Cryptocurrency that has had so many f|ckups should not be in TOP15.

It is not sustainable to change the unit on CMC and exchanges every time when somebody feels that they can't own 1 unit. Argument of changing from GBYTE to MBYTE is very much connected with the price speculation. Changing to smaller unit every time price hits $1 or $1000 just tricks people to feel that they got it cheap, it's scammy. Bitcoin doesn't do it, Byteball should not do it either.


Byteball also starts with smallest (Byte) unit as default, not like Bitcoin wallets start with the biggest (BTC) unit as default.
...and this is excellent. Just a pity CMC and exchanges would not adhere to the same criteria. And you have to admit this incoherency could be confusing for a newcomer.
Exchanges are wholesale, selling in bulk in larger quantities, it doesn't make sense for them to use the smallest unit. Same way food wholesale doesn't sell beer by individual beer bottle. It would be nice if they would enable users to switch between different units, but I am not aware any exchange that does that because that would be lot of work for them on each currency they add and some even don't have names for units like Byteball, Bitcoin and Ethereum does. There is no other standard for unit names, but micro, milli, kilo mega, giga are pretty standard for metric units. Bad example is American (imperial) system, which doesn't make sense for rest of the world. As a European, I don't know how much is penny, nickel, dime, quarter without looking them up on Internet, same way how I would not know how much is babbage, lovelace, shannon, szabo, finney, satoshi.

It doesn't matter what unit of display users pick in the wallet, if they buy something from a shop they should be able to pick whatever unit they are comfortable with. We think that exchanges are super important for mass adoption, but they are not. These centralized-exchanges are anti-cryptocurrency, they are opposite what the cryptocurrencies are for. These centralized-exchanges are same as banks (some even call them like that). The more cryptocurrencies Coinbase and Binance get the further we are from the goal of cryptocurrencies (it is not speculation) - money that is decentralized, without intermediates and which supply is not controlled by Fed. I think we have forgotten that with speculation-mania, everybody should go read what was written in Bitcoin genesis block or listen some of Andreas M. Antonopoulos talks - this guy gets it https://youtu.be/LgI0liAee4s


Not sure why would somebody associate gigabytes with Millions of Dollars, giga is billion, mega i million. Most people don't associate them billions or millions, but rather with storage space, what is the whole point of bytes in Byteball (1GBYTE is roughly 1GBYTE of data in DAG).
I was speaking of symbols but you, as a developer, can obviously see only the math. Smiley But on the second point I agree, people associate Byteball units with storage space, which in my opinion is again something quite confusing for most people, even though I personally quite like that.
Sometimes i have the same problem Roll Eyes
It sounds like you are saying that I don't see the big picture, but I think it is not true. As a true developer, I would argue that Byte, Satoshi and Wei are the only units that people should use because that is the unit that these cryptocurrencies use in code. That's what a developer would say, I am not saying that, I think that people should be able to pick the unit that fits best for them and that's exactly what Byteball wallet does - if you request somebody 500MByte and they scan that QR and if their wallet is set to display GByte then instead of 500MByte, they see 0.5GByte because that is what they have selected for their display unit.

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December 04, 2018, 05:25:54 PM
 #21097

Dakota Indian wisdom says, "If you discover you're riding a dead horse, get off!"

Who is also curious when the team will finally notice that they are riding a dead horse with their marketing and development strategy?
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December 04, 2018, 05:42:38 PM
 #21098

Dakota Indian wisdom says, "If you discover you're riding a dead horse, get off!"

Who is also curious when the team will finally notice that they are riding a dead horse with their marketing and development strategy?

When do you realize that you are not helping, at all. You are that Hyena, who is biting the horse from the leg all the time.
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December 04, 2018, 06:07:43 PM
Last edit: December 04, 2018, 06:18:49 PM by pineapple express
 #21099

Byterteam, so much time wasted. The best way to evaluate your work is to look at the results. A year has passed since you started piss against the wind, what results have you achieved? Balls accepted in Amazon, Overstock? Any payment processor even heard about the balls? Any good ICO? Any DAPP? New witnesses, exchanges, partnerships? Liquidity?
The only thing you care is a fuckin KYC and subsidizing the dead steem forum. When you finally realize that Byterbal community is not your enemy, it is your goal?

Quote
Dakota Indian wisdom says, "If you discover you're riding a dead horse, get off!"
Wonderful quote.
Thul
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December 04, 2018, 06:25:57 PM
 #21100

Byterteam, so much time wasted. The best way to evaluate your work is to look at the results. A year has passed since you started piss against the wind, what results have you achieved? Balls accepted in Amazon, Overstock? Any payment processor even heard about the balls? Any good ICO? Any DAPP? New witnesses, exchanges, partnerships? Liquidity?
The only thing you care is a fuckin KYC and subsidizing the dead steem forum. When you finally realize that Byterbal community is not your enemy, it is your goal?
This!
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