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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1216842 times)
Marc De Mesel
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December 01, 2018, 10:52:03 AM
 #21061

The Byteball Platform - Thoughts on a Rebrand

Greetings Byteball Community and Team.

My apologies for such a long post, and a re-post from our Reddit thread, but I felt some may not see it otherwise and that a full explanation was in order...

It's been a long time since I've posted ...


Great post and kudos to you for seeing cancelling the airdrop fully was a mistake, I didn't see it at the time but now have to admit it would have been better to drastically reduced airdrops over time instead.

Good for you u got out and missed the largest drop in price.

Happy to see ppl like you join the project again, I would not sell your domains for small profit but instead keep them, and keeping the power that comes with it if the names you propose get adopted, crypto is supposed to be decentralised in different ways, domain name ownership being one of them.

Thanks so much for all your contributions.

Early Bitcoin, Byteball & Bitcoin Cash Investor. Loving Voluntarysm, Lambos & Girls Wink
Check out my: https://youtube.com/user/Marcdemesel - https://twitter.com/marcdemesel & https://instagram.com/marc_de_mesel
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pineapple express
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December 01, 2018, 01:58:42 PM
 #21062

I had a hunch: Only those who drop their pants (KYC) are allowed to play along.  Grin

Do you have any actually ideas how to distribute coins so whales don't get it (whale can be any script-kiddie who finds a loophole). Nobody wants a coin, where most of it is owned by whales, that is no way different than fiat currencies. Why are you even here, Byteball clearly doesn't fit with what you want, go buy some Monero.
most of balls already owned by Max Kordek
tarmo888
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December 01, 2018, 02:43:51 PM
 #21063

I had a hunch: Only those who drop their pants (KYC) are allowed to play along.  Grin

Do you have any actually ideas how to distribute coins so whales don't get it (whale can be any script-kiddie who finds a loophole). Nobody wants a coin, where most of it is owned by whales, that is no way different than fiat currencies. Why are you even here, Byteball clearly doesn't fit with what you want, go buy some Monero.
most of balls already owned by Max Kordek

Why do you need to spread FUD all the time? Do you even know what "most" means?

Max Kordek (or actually Lisk Foundation) owns 17 377.989853045 GByte, the circulating supply of Byteball is currently 662 811 GByte (probably because Byteball Foundation bytes are not in circulation yet), which makes Lisk Foundation share to be 2.6% of circulating supply.
Total supply of Byteball is 1 000 000, which makes Lisk Foundation to own 1.7% of total supply.
Does 2.6% or 1.7% look like "most" to you?

Are you also one of those who doesn't understand that 1 address doesn't equal 1 user? There could be easily somebody who has more bytes than Lisk Foundation because the airdrop to BTC users, but it would still not be "most", which means over 50%.

https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-2016-7e68cdd13b12
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/byteball/
http://transition.byteball.org/
jwinterm
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December 01, 2018, 04:13:18 PM
 #21064

Did any large ICOs participate in the air drop that weren't from Russia? Or were waves and lisk the only known ICOs to participate?
pineapple express
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December 01, 2018, 05:19:09 PM
Last edit: December 01, 2018, 05:33:39 PM by pineapple express
 #21065

Quote
Max Kordek (or actually Lisk Foundation) owns 17 377.989853045 GByte
You continue to demonstrate your ignorance
https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-2016-7e68cdd13b12 Dec 31, 2016
https://explorer.byteball.org/#XCQ3LC6BSRGLPKC6LDQBTHZBKHLGIS5B  62242 GByte Dec 1, 2018

Quote
Did any large ICOs participate in the air drop that weren't from Russia? Or were waves and lisk the only known ICOs to participate?
Iconomi and Komodo at least
With an ICONOMI balance of 6900 BTC, ICONOMI’s stake in the first distribution of bytes represents 9.766% of initial distribution, making it the second largest participant. https://medium.com/iconominet/iconomi-acquires-9-766-of-byteball-initial-distribution-free-of-charge-cd9c4a5d49ac
Komodo gets more funding through #Byteball snapshot https://twitter.com/komodoplatform/status/807641366713028608

tarmo888
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December 01, 2018, 06:31:50 PM
 #21066

Quote
Max Kordek (or actually Lisk Foundation) owns 17 377.989853045 GByte
You continue to demonstrate your ignorance
https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-2016-7e68cdd13b12 Dec 31, 2016
https://explorer.byteball.org/#XCQ3LC6BSRGLPKC6LDQBTHZBKHLGIS5B  62242 GByte Dec 1, 2018

Not sure why these numbers don't match, but 62k is still 9.4% of current circulation supply and 6.2% of total supply.

If he did buy 45k as additional for the Lisk Foundation then it's great, at least someone influential believes in Byteball and doesn't come to whine here all the time.

Seems they did get more because 2017 report shows more than 2016 https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-may-2017-ee51f2a6570b
jwinterm
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December 01, 2018, 06:43:40 PM
 #21067

Parsing the semantics of "most" doesn't change the fact that distribution is pretty fukt.

So currently maybe 30-50% of bytes held by scammy ICOs?
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December 01, 2018, 07:02:58 PM
 #21068

Parsing the semantics of "most" doesn't change the fact that distribution is pretty fukt.

So currently maybe 30-50% of bytes held by scammy ICOs?

Bitcoin airdrop was fukt idea, since Steem attestation, there has been 1 year vesting contract, so if people still sell and somebody hoards them, it is out of Byteball control. Welcome to cryptocurrencies, everybody can do anything with their money.
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December 01, 2018, 07:13:53 PM
 #21069

Parsing the semantics of "most" doesn't change the fact that distribution is pretty fukt.

So currently maybe 30-50% of bytes held by scammy ICOs?

Bitcoin airdrop was fukt idea, since Steem attestation, there has been 1 year vesting contract, so if people still sell and somebody hoards them, it is out of Byteball control. Welcome to cryptocurrencies, everybody can do anything with their money.

Kind of funny how you call bitcoin coinbase distribution method shitty a few posts ago, but byteball is basically owned by ICOs with a few crumbs now going to account farmers and bot netters, while bitcoin has the widest and truly the fairest distribution of any coin in all likelihood (you can't fake proof of work, you gotta burn to earn).
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December 01, 2018, 07:51:02 PM
 #21070

Parsing the semantics of "most" doesn't change the fact that distribution is pretty fukt.

So currently maybe 30-50% of bytes held by scammy ICOs?

Bitcoin airdrop was fukt idea, since Steem attestation, there has been 1 year vesting contract, so if people still sell and somebody hoards them, it is out of Byteball control. Welcome to cryptocurrencies, everybody can do anything with their money.

Kind of funny how you call bitcoin coinbase distribution method shitty a few posts ago, but byteball is basically owned by ICOs with a few crumbs now going to account farmers and bot netters, while bitcoin has the widest and truly the fairest distribution of any coin in all likelihood (you can't fake proof of work, you gotta burn to earn).

So, go try and earn with mining Bitcoin and let us know how much you got. It is long time ago past the threshold where everybody could participate.
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December 01, 2018, 08:12:05 PM
 #21071

Parsing the semantics of "most" doesn't change the fact that distribution is pretty fukt.

So currently maybe 30-50% of bytes held by scammy ICOs?

Bitcoin airdrop was fukt idea, since Steem attestation, there has been 1 year vesting contract, so if people still sell and somebody hoards them, it is out of Byteball control. Welcome to cryptocurrencies, everybody can do anything with their money.

Kind of funny how you call bitcoin coinbase distribution method shitty a few posts ago, but byteball is basically owned by ICOs with a few crumbs now going to account farmers and bot netters, while bitcoin has the widest and truly the fairest distribution of any coin in all likelihood (you can't fake proof of work, you gotta burn to earn).

So, go try and earn with mining Bitcoin and let us know how much you got. It is long time ago past the threshold where everybody could participate.

There's estimated to be over one million unique miners, 200k on slush pool alone:
https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/how-many-bitcoins-are-there/

But you don't need to mine, you can buy, because mining has certain fixed and ongoing costs meaning there's economics behind what miners are willing to sell for. You can talk shit all you want but it's infinitely better than the clusterfuck byteball began as and the new clusterfuck it's morphed into with one guy making it up as he goes along.
JesusCryptos
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December 02, 2018, 02:51:58 PM
 #21072

Quote
Max Kordek (or actually Lisk Foundation) owns 17 377.989853045 GByte
You continue to demonstrate your ignorance
https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-2016-7e68cdd13b12 Dec 31, 2016
https://explorer.byteball.org/#XCQ3LC6BSRGLPKC6LDQBTHZBKHLGIS5B  62242 GByte Dec 1, 2018

Not sure why these numbers don't match, but 62k is still 9.4% of current circulation supply and 6.2% of total supply.

If he did buy 45k as additional for the Lisk Foundation then it's great, at least someone influential believes in Byteball and doesn't come to whine here all the time.

Seems they did get more because 2017 report shows more than 2016 https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-may-2017-ee51f2a6570b

Interesting, did anyone investigate, by checking the byteball addresses of those large holders of concurrent projects, if it is them to have constantly dumped bytes over the months?

⚪ Byteball          I T   J U S T   W O R K S .  
Sending Crypto to Email   -   Risk-Free Conditional Smart Payments   -   ICO Platform with KYC
ANN THREAD                  TELEGRAM                     TWITTER                  MEDIUM                  SLACK                  REDDIT
pineapple express
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December 02, 2018, 08:27:46 PM
 #21073

Quote
Max Kordek (or actually Lisk Foundation) owns 17 377.989853045 GByte
You continue to demonstrate your ignorance
https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-2016-7e68cdd13b12 Dec 31, 2016
https://explorer.byteball.org/#XCQ3LC6BSRGLPKC6LDQBTHZBKHLGIS5B  62242 GByte Dec 1, 2018

Not sure why these numbers don't match, but 62k is still 9.4% of current circulation supply and 6.2% of total supply.

If he did buy 45k as additional for the Lisk Foundation then it's great, at least someone influential believes in Byteball and doesn't come to whine here all the time.

Seems they did get more because 2017 report shows more than 2016 https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-may-2017-ee51f2a6570b
17377 GByte in the 1st round. There were 10 rounds.
Thul
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December 02, 2018, 09:14:43 PM
 #21074

Quote
Max Kordek (or actually Lisk Foundation) owns 17 377.989853045 GByte
You continue to demonstrate your ignorance
https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-2016-7e68cdd13b12 Dec 31, 2016
https://explorer.byteball.org/#XCQ3LC6BSRGLPKC6LDQBTHZBKHLGIS5B  62242 GByte Dec 1, 2018

Not sure why these numbers don't match, but 62k is still 9.4% of current circulation supply and 6.2% of total supply.

If he did buy 45k as additional for the Lisk Foundation then it's great, at least someone influential believes in Byteball and doesn't come to whine here all the time.

Seems they did get more because 2017 report shows more than 2016 https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-may-2017-ee51f2a6570b
17377 GByte in the 1st round. There were 10 rounds.
Grin

--------------------------------
I wished that someone would develop a clon that would be consistently oriented towards benefits, i.e. integrate a decentralised, uncensurable marketplace into the project.

The currency is distributed through discounts on goods and services sold. Both the dealer and the customer benefit from this.

Such a project would quickly become very popular.
Something like https://bitify.com/, in contrast to it however censorship resistant and free of charge.

Don't none of you know any capable programmers who want to earn a lot of money with a coin project that can finally be used?  Cool
tarmo888
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December 02, 2018, 09:48:02 PM
Last edit: December 02, 2018, 11:40:31 PM by tarmo888
 #21075

Quote
Max Kordek (or actually Lisk Foundation) owns 17 377.989853045 GByte
You continue to demonstrate your ignorance
https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-2016-7e68cdd13b12 Dec 31, 2016
https://explorer.byteball.org/#XCQ3LC6BSRGLPKC6LDQBTHZBKHLGIS5B  62242 GByte Dec 1, 2018

Not sure why these numbers don't match, but 62k is still 9.4% of current circulation supply and 6.2% of total supply.

If he did buy 45k as additional for the Lisk Foundation then it's great, at least someone influential believes in Byteball and doesn't come to whine here all the time.

Seems they did get more because 2017 report shows more than 2016 https://blog.lisk.io/financial-report-may-2017-ee51f2a6570b
17377 GByte in the 1st round. There were 10 rounds.

http://transition.byteball.org/ shows that XCQ3LC6BSRGLPKC6LDQBTHZBKHLGIS5B had BTC balance 8467.98998896, which at 0.00625 would have been only 52.924937431 GByte.

Does anybody still think that Bitcoin airdrop was great distribution or that 1 address equals 1 user? That what happens when you airdrop to addresses without KYC.
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December 03, 2018, 10:57:53 AM
 #21076

I wished that someone would develop a clon that would be consistently oriented towards benefits, i.e. integrate a decentralised, uncensurable marketplace into the project.

The currency is distributed through discounts on goods and services sold. Both the dealer and the customer benefit from this.

Such a project would quickly become very popular.
Something like https://bitify.com/, in contrast to it however censorship resistant and free of charge.

Don't none of you know any capable programmers who want to earn a lot of money with a coin project that can finally be used?  Cool

I doubt that such shops really have a big impact. It's just that the willingness to pay with crypto currencies is low because everyone speculates on it. That's one of the biggest problems of all. You can see it well at Bitcoin. The number of ways to pay with Bitcoin has increased considerably in the last two years, but some shops have already abolished the payment method because there was little interest. Why should it be any different at Byteball?

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December 03, 2018, 12:18:55 PM
 #21077

I wished that someone would develop a clon that would be consistently oriented towards benefits, i.e. integrate a decentralised, uncensurable marketplace into the project.

The currency is distributed through discounts on goods and services sold. Both the dealer and the customer benefit from this.

Such a project would quickly become very popular.
Something like https://bitify.com/, in contrast to it however censorship resistant and free of charge.

Don't none of you know any capable programmers who want to earn a lot of money with a coin project that can finally be used?  Cool

I doubt that such shops really have a big impact. It's just that the willingness to pay with crypto currencies is low because everyone speculates on it. That's one of the biggest problems of all. You can see it well at Bitcoin. The number of ways to pay with Bitcoin has increased considerably in the last two years, but some shops have already abolished the payment method because there was little interest. Why should it be any different at Byteball?
A decentralized, non-censurable marketplace should, of course, offer products and services that are not available through the regulated Fiat markets.
This is still a real market gap, in the sense of real cryptoanarchists (yes, there should be in the flood of speculators, and in the end they are the ones who give the crypto currencies a value at all).

"Because of this, Braun criticizes the emphasis that bitcoin supporters often place on mainstream adoption, arguing that many newcomers within the industry do not share the cryptocurrency’s underlying political ramifications.

“I’m not criticizing that more people use it per se, but they kind of water it down and then the whole revolutionary aspect gets lost,” Braun said."

https://www.coindesk.com/crypto-anarchists-are-building-tools-to-resist-the-state-in-eastern-europe

The dream of many Cryptos, like Byteball, to enter the mass market is far from reality (and you recognize this quite rightly).
The mass of sheep stays with Fiat and buys further on ebay and amazon with paypal and credit card.

Cryptoanarchists (and only they can really do anything with free(!) crypto currencies) are urgently looking for a solution for an unregulated market.

The unregulated market is growing exponentially. There you only pay with crypto currencies.
Unfortunately, there are so far only centralized solutions that do not cover the full range of possibilities and are expensive and vulnerable.

Those who are not as stupid as the Byteball team and align themselves accordingly will have catapulted a clone of this project very quickly into the Top 10.
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December 03, 2018, 12:25:25 PM
Merited by Kavallo (5), altcoinb (1)
 #21078

I'd like to resume the discussion on the theme of the default unit of Byteball, since Tony has finally made his point on this in the recent AMA session on Reddit, which people can fully read here:

https://np.reddit.com/r/ByteBall/comments/9yfbvt/i_am_tony_byteball_founder_and_lead_developer_ask/

I had expressed my opinion in June in this post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg40547826#msg40547826

and this is Tony's opinion as expressed during the AMA:

Quote
It would be unthinkable for Bitcoin to change their SI base unit, so altcoin changing it would look even more scammy. Imagin Bitcoin changing from BTC to mBTC, priced under dollar and listing total supply as 21 000 000 000 mBTC. People should be educated to read total supply and display units instead.

So, without changing the supply size, everybody (exchange, bot, user) can still decide individually what display unit makes most sense for them. Exchanges have decided for GBYTE, most bots for MBYTE. New user wallets start with Byte, but users can pick anything they like.

Base unit is Byte because on code level, if you want to send amounts, you need to convert amounts into Byte. Same is for Bitcoin satoshi and Ethereum wei.

My reply to Tony's statements are the following:

1. It would be also unthinkable for Bitcoin to change its name, yet Byteball is just planning to do otherwise and rebrand. To compare Byteball to Bitcoin is useful only if we focus on the technical aspect of both, in which case Byteball can be considered a true peer of Bitcoin, possibly having actually a much better tech. But to extend the comparison to other realms - like brand, adoption rate, etc - it doesn't make any sense because there there's still a true abyss between Bitcoin and Byteball, so what's good for Bitcoin is not at all necessarily good for Byteball.

2. Even though it is theoretically true that "everybody (exchange, bot, user) can still decide individually what display unit makes most sense for them", in the practice this is not true at all. Once again, here we have the big gap between theory and reality, a huge intellectual trap. Coinmarketcap and Exchanges have set the unit standard of GBYTE and now this is the unit 99% of people have in mind when thinking at Byteball. Everyone I know who is aware of Byteball is thinking in terms of Gigabytes. Nobody has a true choice because on mass scale people don't make choices and this is why the science of sociology was born (Gustave Le Bon has put it down already one century ago). Same for "People should be educated, etc.." - sorry my friend, in the history of the world nobody has ever managed to educate A CROWD, and this is why MSM has now been turned into a tool of mass manipulation. You can manipulate a crowd, you cannot educate it. Let's forget the idea of educationg people in thinking in terms of an unit which is different from the one promoted by CMC and Exchanges.
And as I've explained more in detail in my June post, to think in terms of Gigabytes means to think in terms of Million of Dollars - that's not how I would design a currency seeking mass adoption. As for the people who are programming bots in MBYTE, they are a little minority of tech guys. 99% of people will stay stuck with the GBYTE unit which was chosen for them. This could result lethal for Byteball adoption. As I've said in June, I don't care about the price, I care about perception and coherency and avoiding cognitive dissonance. To seek mass adoption with a currency which unit is expressed in "million of dollars" by 99% of adopters is sheer cognitive dissonance. Comparing to Bitcoin here it makes no sense because the two coins are not peers due to Bitcoin's huge first mover advantage.

A final consideration:

While undoubtedly value for a coin is generated in accordance with the principles of Metcalfe's law, we should always keep in mind that there are also other factors beyond adoption which are a cause of value, otherwise neither the Weimer Republik or Zimbawe would have ever experienced hyperinflation. These factors involve causes pertinent to monetary, financial, sociological and psycological sciences, all of which should be taken in consideration when designing a new currency. And when rebranding it and adjusting its path.


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December 03, 2018, 12:43:08 PM
 #21079

And as I've explained more in detail in my June post, to think in terms of Gigabytes means to think in terms of Million of Dollars - that's not how I would design a currency seeking mass adoption.
They may seek mass adoption, but they will not find it. The mass is the wrong target group for free crypto currencies.

From the point of view of someone who is only interested in the benefits of this currency, it is irrelevant whether the base is GB, MB or KB. - The only important thing is that you can use it. And an externally visible benefit will also convince the speculators and let them generously overlook small things like the basic unit.
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December 03, 2018, 01:09:00 PM
 #21080

Trust.Zone, an anonymous VPN service, now accepts payments in Byteball Bytes.  Private, secure and anonymous browsing, with a 10% discount for Byte holdersCool

>> https://trust.zone/ <<
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