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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3045495 times)
opentoe
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December 04, 2013, 01:12:47 AM
 #24921

I had the option and opportunity to buy a pre-order 10K unit but my gut told me it won't be as lucrative as the Jupiter I have now. Because of the other companies putting out hardware (it's only a matter of time they will), and such a far time in the future KNC indicated shipping times. When a company says they will ship a product in Q1/Q2 that means they have no clue on when they are shipping anything. How can you NOT know when you will ship something within a three month time? If things are that messed up and have to add another 3 months to it then something is wrong.

I am jealous of people getting Jupiters now, I would have loved to grab a couple of those and to tell you the truth have no idea why I didn't order any. I guess my single upgraded Saturn hashing at 560Gh/s will stay on until it dies.


Hey, anyone in the US know how to compute what it cost approx to run this rig? It pulls 650 watts from the wall and I think is at 5-6 amps. I'm just trying to figure out what the electrical cost is. I'm in the Eastern US.


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Jaymax
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December 04, 2013, 01:15:44 AM
 #24922

Y'all stuck thinking inside the box...

My Jupiter and Upgraded Saturn-Jupiter have been running for weeks with nary a PC PSU in sight.

Clue 1) 12V industrial power supplies are not hard to find
Clue 2) 5V industrial power supplies are not hard to find
Clue 3) alidirect.com
Clue 4) common your grounds!

And for a bonus - power supplies designed for a fixed specific voltage, are WAY cheaper.  I have a separate 12V switch-mode supply for each ASIC module, and they cost about £8 each - and they should easily handle two 'legacy' KnC ASICs each.

Now please carry on as you were.

Sounds interesting, how energy efficiency are these industrial power supplies?   alidirect.com took me to some generic landing page hosted by Bluehost...

Doh! My bad - aliexpress.com (it's late here)  -  I am in the luxurious position of having unmetered power, so I haven't checked at the wall to see if they meet the claimed efficiency - but then, with power supplies generally, the quoted efficiency is probably only valid within some narrow load range.  It would only be fair to note that the wee internal fans have already crapped out on two of the eight 12V supplies I have running so far; but dropping on a cheap external 12V fan over the chassis grill will not be hard (because the supplies are under-loaded, I haven't bothered with this yet)
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December 04, 2013, 01:24:31 AM
 #24923

I had the option and opportunity to buy a pre-order 10K unit but my gut told me it won't be as lucrative as the Jupiter I have now. Because of the other companies putting out hardware (it's only a matter of time they will), and such a far time in the future KNC indicated shipping times. When a company says they will ship a product in Q1/Q2 that means they have no clue on when they are shipping anything. How can you NOT know when you will ship something within a three month time? If things are that messed up and have to add another 3 months to it then something is wrong.

I am jealous of people getting Jupiters now, I would have loved to grab a couple of those and to tell you the truth have no idea why I didn't order any. I guess my single upgraded Saturn hashing at 560Gh/s will stay on until it dies.


Hey, anyone in the US know how to compute what it cost approx to run this rig? It pulls 650 watts from the wall and I think is at 5-6 amps. I'm just trying to figure out what the electrical cost is. I'm in the Eastern US.



If your cost is 15 cents per kilowatt hour, I believe you would calculate it like this:

((650 watts * 24 hours) / 1000 watts per hour) * .15 cents = $2.34 per day
xstr8guy
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December 04, 2013, 01:25:04 AM
 #24924

Do we even know if 20nm is just a die shrink of 28nm or a completely new design?  If it's a new ASIC design then power usage estimates are pointless at this point.

Bitfury had comparable power usage at 55nm and HashFast and Cointerra are predicting much more efficient devices at 28nm than KNC's.  So hopefully KNC will continue to stay one step ahead and no just accept an inefficient design as inevitable.
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December 04, 2013, 01:25:12 AM
 #24925

A reasonably priced batch of Saturn/Mercury type units would sell out no problem at this point since KNC is 'proven', but all their store shows is the Neptune.  

I can not understand this either and KnC makes no sense in not offering Saturn/Mercury miners "in mass".

Any ASIC business usually develops a chip and then runs it for at least 1 year. Now that their first design is proven, bugs are worked out and NRE costs recouped, KnC could do large volume runs of the older line and price these things at levels that blow the competition away. Everyone will flock to them since they are proven. Or they could just offer the ASICs and let the 3rd party board developers run with it.

In the ASIC business the high-volume player always wins in the long run, it makes sense for any successful bitcoin ASIC vendor to take this route early to establish themselves. IMHO KnC is opening the door for Black Arrow or other similar ASICs to take a higher volume route with 3rd party board developers.


Doing that may kill the goose that lays the golden egg. I think the reason Knc is doing limiting batches is to avoid driving up the difficulty to the point where it is no longer cost effective for them to manufacture new ASIC devices.

Every machine Knc delivers effectively pushes down the value of their future devices, which is one of the great paradoxes of the zero sum bitcoin mining game.

KnC have always stated that they will sell machines and they will ALSO mine.

If it were me, i would still be producing 28nm machines for mining, not selling.

While the schmucks are swooning over 20nm in 6 months, KnC mine is reaching into the PH level based on tuned and tweaked 28nm tech

EDIT: forgot to disclose that i am one of those Schmucks with a 20nm preorder...
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December 04, 2013, 01:29:49 AM
 #24926

Anyone interested in a way to remove the 24 pin ATX cable  Roll Eyes

I made some for myself - you just plug it directly at the back of the PSU and it starts.

The left single one is for EVGA 1300W and the right 2 ones are for Cooler Master V850/V1000 and probably other PSUs that use the same platform:



Good buy unnecessary 24 pin cable  Grin

I'm going to buy two Cooler Master V1000's so I would need two of those 19pin plugs. Do you have them made already? I know where to buy them and even have PCI-E pins/crimps but if you already have them, let me know. I'll need two of them.
Thanks.

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December 04, 2013, 01:36:15 AM
 #24927


I'm going to buy two Cooler Master V1000's so I would need two of those 19pin plugs. Do you have them made already? I know where to buy them and even have PCI-E pins/crimps but if you already have them, let me know. I'll need two of them.
Thanks.


You need 19pin and 10 pin per PSU or it will not start. I've been racking my brain for the past couple of days why it wouldn't start and found the answer Smiley
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December 04, 2013, 01:47:57 AM
 #24928


I'm going to buy two Cooler Master V1000's so I would need two of those 19pin plugs. Do you have them made already? I know where to buy them and even have PCI-E pins/crimps but if you already have them, let me know. I'll need two of them.
Thanks.


You need 19pin and 10 pin per PSU or it will not start. I've been racking my brain for the past couple of days why it wouldn't start and found the answer Smiley

Thanks for the helpful info, I would have never guessed since every PSU I ever jump started only used one connector. I do see that has two MB connections. Also, this unit has 4 PCI-E which is great for 4 modules and a Jupiter but heard Coolermaster was cheap and only put 3 cables in the box. Is that true?

Did you buy extra cables from Coolermaster?

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CYPER
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December 04, 2013, 01:50:52 AM
 #24929


I'm going to buy two Cooler Master V1000's so I would need two of those 19pin plugs. Do you have them made already? I know where to buy them and even have PCI-E pins/crimps but if you already have them, let me know. I'll need two of them.
Thanks.


You need 19pin and 10 pin per PSU or it will not start. I've been racking my brain for the past couple of days why it wouldn't start and found the answer Smiley

Thanks for the helpful info, I would have never guessed since every PSU I ever jump started only used one connector. I do see that has two MB connections. Also, this unit has 4 PCI-E which is great for 4 modules and a Jupiter but heard Coolermaster was cheap and only put 3 cables in the box. Is that true?

Did you buy extra cables from Coolermaster?

V850 comes with 3 cables. V1000 comes with 4.
Another thing is you can safely use the CPU ports with PCI-E cables, so you have 6 in total Wink

Cooler Master sent me free cables that I requested over email Wink
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December 04, 2013, 01:54:28 AM
 #24930

November order 10103, received my tracking number today. States expected delivery Thursday 5, December.
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December 04, 2013, 02:15:33 AM
 #24931

November order 10103, received my tracking number today. States expected delivery Thursday 5, December.
102xx same deal man! Congratz and happy mining!

Tips - 16AbA3b2GRR37t6RasVJmoxXTGuGUE1PAP
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December 04, 2013, 02:17:54 AM
 #24932


I'm going to buy two Cooler Master V1000's so I would need two of those 19pin plugs. Do you have them made already? I know where to buy them and even have PCI-E pins/crimps but if you already have them, let me know. I'll need two of them.
Thanks.


You need 19pin and 10 pin per PSU or it will not start. I've been racking my brain for the past couple of days why it wouldn't start and found the answer Smiley

Thanks for the helpful info, I would have never guessed since every PSU I ever jump started only used one connector. I do see that has two MB connections. Also, this unit has 4 PCI-E which is great for 4 modules and a Jupiter but heard Coolermaster was cheap and only put 3 cables in the box. Is that true?

Did you buy extra cables from Coolermaster?

V850 comes with 3 cables. V1000 comes with 4.
Another thing is you can safely use the CPU ports with PCI-E cables, so you have 6 in total Wink

Cooler Master sent me free cables that I requested over email Wink

it is true you can request free PCI-express cables if you are a US citizen, the rest of us are required to pay about 5 USD and wait for 2 weeks for them to arrive...

http://www.cmstore.eu/power-supply/6-pin-to-pci-e-6-8-pin-modular-flat-cable/

also i would advise against using the PSU port, at least on a v850 as that is what caused mine to just die.

i thought i'd try that before trying the twin molex to PCI-e.... it has been in the 'shop' now for over a week and will be replaced, not repaired.

the v1000 may be a bit more resilient.

i am currently using a cheap 1100w strike-x psu which has shown no signs of struggle but again, still only using 3 PCI-e cables (1 is 'doubled up' as it was with the v850)

is it plausible to use SATA ports with PCI-e cables as some psus have only 2 PCI-e ports?
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December 04, 2013, 02:30:46 AM
 #24933


I'm going to buy two Cooler Master V1000's so I would need two of those 19pin plugs. Do you have them made already? I know where to buy them and even have PCI-E pins/crimps but if you already have them, let me know. I'll need two of them.
Thanks.


You need 19pin and 10 pin per PSU or it will not start. I've been racking my brain for the past couple of days why it wouldn't start and found the answer Smiley

Thanks for the helpful info, I would have never guessed since every PSU I ever jump started only used one connector. I do see that has two MB connections. Also, this unit has 4 PCI-E which is great for 4 modules and a Jupiter but heard Coolermaster was cheap and only put 3 cables in the box. Is that true?

Did you buy extra cables from Coolermaster?

V850 comes with 3 cables. V1000 comes with 4.
Another thing is you can safely use the CPU ports with PCI-E cables, so you have 6 in total Wink

Cooler Master sent me free cables that I requested over email Wink

it is true you can request free PCI-express cables if you are a US citizen, the rest of us are required to pay about 5 USD and wait for 2 weeks for them to arrive...

http://www.cmstore.eu/power-supply/6-pin-to-pci-e-6-8-pin-modular-flat-cable/

also i would advise against using the PSU port, at least on a v850 as that is what caused mine to just die.

i thought i'd try that before trying the twin molex to PCI-e.... it has been in the 'shop' now for over a week and will be replaced, not repaired.

the v1000 may be a bit more resilient.

i am currently using a cheap 1100w strike-x psu which has shown no signs of struggle but again, still only using 3 PCI-e cables (1 is 'doubled up' as it was with the v850)

is it plausible to use SATA ports with PCI-e cables as some psus have only 2 PCI-e ports?

I am in UK and got 7 for free. They came from the Netherlands.
Also using the CPU port should not cause any problems as voltage is voltage (12V). The connector doesn't fit properly, so make sure you know what you are doing.
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December 04, 2013, 05:03:40 AM
 #24934

November order 10103, received my tracking number today. States expected delivery Thursday 5, December.
102xx same deal man! Congratz and happy mining!

Yay my 102xx order shouldn't be far off shipping, I can't wait Grin
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December 04, 2013, 05:23:18 AM
 #24935

Will Neptune have hosting or only sold as shipped units?

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December 04, 2013, 05:43:45 AM
 #24936

All November units arrived in a reasonable time and function as (or above) advertised.  Just like batch one.

Five stars KnC, really good stuff.

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December 04, 2013, 06:16:07 AM
 #24937

How much power is Neptune slated to pull?  Is it beyond anything a typical US household/apartment AC outlet could feed?
I think it will be like this:
If you connect the Neptune  to it's OWN 20amp circuit, with nothing else, you should be fine.
Whatever you do, don't put it on the same circuit as something like a microwave, or toaster, or anything that draws significant wattage. Make sure it's on a 20amp breaker minimum.

When you estimate a 20A circuit, you mean on a 110V line, yes? European 230V @ 16A would give 3680W, which should probably hold if kendog77's estimate of 3000W power draw is anywhere near what we will get.
I really hope that it will draw less than 3000W to be able to have it along other things on a slightly loaded circuit.
Assuming it will be powered by ATX PSUs, the max spec for North America would be 1300W per PSU. Yes, there are 1500W supplies, but 120V/15A circuits must (electrical code) be derated by 20% for continuous use. So 120V x 15A x 80% is 1440W at the wall. A 90% efficient PSU supplying 1300W DC would be right at the limit. If we use 2 of these, we can supply 2600W DC at most.

So drawing less than 2600W DC would be ideal. Otherwise North American people without convenient access to 240V lines would be ... inconvenienced. Sad

I myself would have to find a 240V line to run that machine unless i can get two 1500W PSUs to run it. Even then i am going to have a huge issue with my power being in an apartment


my question is can you run two of these off a 100 amp panel? (er legally code wise I mean)...I have no central a/c and a boiler for heating so no load there just a oven and clothes dryer..( (and if the oven has to go to gas and the dryer to gas so be it)

my own guess is I'd need at least a 200 amp service to be up to code but that would suck

Old Style Legacy Plug & Play BBS System. Get it from www.synchro.net. Updated 1/1/19. It also works with Windows 10 and allows 16 bit DOS game doors on the same Win 10 Machine! Five Minute Install! Look it over uninstalls just as fast! Freeware! Full BBS System! It is a frigging hoot!:)
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December 04, 2013, 06:21:30 AM
 #24938

I had the option and opportunity to buy a pre-order 10K unit but my gut told me it won't be as lucrative as the Jupiter I have now. Because of the other companies putting out hardware (it's only a matter of time they will), and such a far time in the future KNC indicated shipping times. When a company says they will ship a product in Q1/Q2 that means they have no clue on when they are shipping anything. How can you NOT know when you will ship something within a three month time? If things are that messed up and have to add another 3 months to it then something is wrong.

I am jealous of people getting Jupiters now, I would have loved to grab a couple of those and to tell you the truth have no idea why I didn't order any. I guess my single upgraded Saturn hashing at 560Gh/s will stay on until it dies.


Hey, anyone in the US know how to compute what it cost approx to run this rig? It pulls 650 watts from the wall and I think is at 5-6 amps. I'm just trying to figure out what the electrical cost is. I'm in the Eastern US.


If you don't want to buy a standalone watt meter for the outlet, you can temporarily use the power company's meter. Shut off the whole house (every breaker but the miner), & make sure you have no other juice users on that circuit. Then go take readings before and after 1 hour via stopwatch. Do it 2 times or more for accuracy. The cheap outlet wattmeters are better/easier, though I'm not sure of their accuracy.
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December 04, 2013, 06:22:21 AM
 #24939

Plug one of these into your 30 amp electric dryer outlet.  Bam! Enough power to feed 2 Neptunes!

Do you want bitcoins or dry clothes?   Grin Wink

http://www.powerboxinc.com/7500_combo.html

heh thanks for the link....may have to do that but still want to know if a 100amp panel with NO central a/c load on the house and only a clothes dryer and stove 30amp (I can make the dryer gas if I have to) ok to do or not

1) elec code wise running 2 of these beasts off a 100 amp panel code wise

2) I have to live there don't want to wake up tyring to an elec fire (or not)

anyway thanks if anyone off hand knows something on this (would not to sound like a complete idiot when/if I talk to an electrician on concerns)

Searing

Old Style Legacy Plug & Play BBS System. Get it from www.synchro.net. Updated 1/1/19. It also works with Windows 10 and allows 16 bit DOS game doors on the same Win 10 Machine! Five Minute Install! Look it over uninstalls just as fast! Freeware! Full BBS System! It is a frigging hoot!:)
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December 04, 2013, 06:44:07 AM
 #24940

Plug one of these into your 30 amp electric dryer outlet.  Bam! Enough power to feed 2 Neptunes!

Do you want bitcoins or dry clothes?   Grin Wink

http://www.powerboxinc.com/7500_combo.html

heh thanks for the link....may have to do that but still want to know if a 100amp panel with NO central a/c load on the house and only a clothes dryer and stove 30amp (I can make the dryer gas if I have to) ok to do or not

1) elec code wise running 2 of these beasts off a 100 amp panel code wise

2) I have to live there don't want to wake up tyring to an elec fire (or not)

anyway thanks if anyone off hand knows something on this (would not to sound like a complete idiot when/if I talk to an electrician on concerns)

Searing
If you can change the dryer and stove to gas, piece of cake. Each of the 2 220volt ckts will run 1 Neptune.

But if it's a fairly modern house it's also easy to upgrade. You just buy a 200 amp main breaker. You need to make sure the line coming into the main meter box from the pole, and the short trip from the meter box to the main breaker can handle it.
Check the gauge i.e. 0000?, then internet gauge/current charts.

200amp boxes are usually larger because of the average number of outlets, but if you have a few unused slots in you 100A you can use them for your miner circuits.  If the existing box is full(or nearly), Then you can just add another 100A, 0r 50,etc sub panel.  It's easy but electrician's fees add up quick. Best to buy an electrician friend lunch and maybe a BTC tip. Or YOU do the work and let them check it out.
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