Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[fabiorem]

Right now BTC is holding the line pretty well, but I am getting the sense of fear and desperation in both the BTC and LTC subs. It's starting to feel a bit... impatient over there. It's a very different sentiment to that one in December. Either we've entered a new phase in crypto where one is going to need to be patient as the market caps are now much larger, or these impatient ones will be shaken out at losses at much lower prices.

I think we are in a bear market already. There's a feel of hybernation, of freezing winds.

[jojo69]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

[jojo69]

(maybe except for a full node on an ofline computer).

you can not maintain a node on an offline computer, by definition

[erre]

How was it with a paper wallet? If I have 10 Bitcoins on a paper wallet, I have to sent them all at once to the exchange? Otherwise the rest will get lost?

There is a step between having a paper wallet and sending it to the exchange.

You have to import your private key into a hot wallet before sending it to the exchange. When you send less than 10 bitcoins to the exchange, depending upon your hot wallet software, you will either get the remaining coins in a different address or it will go back to your original address (blockchain.info).

Either way, once you import your private key to a hot wallet...it's no longer secure. You need to go through the process to put it on a paper wallet again.

unless you run something like armory where you can create a transaction and sign it on a completely secure offline computing environment, then import that sig to an online box and broadcast it

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

My recommendation would be to download the Coinomi wallet to your Android smartphone, add the coins bitcoin, bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold. Then choose bitcoin and use the sweep option from the alternatives in the upper right corner to either scan the QR code or type in the private key. You now have your bitcoins in the Coinomi wallet instead of in your paper wallet. Then you do the same with  bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold. you now have an empty paper wallet (almost, there are 29 more coins to claim, but they are not yet supported by Coinomi, so save the "empty" wallet for later).
you can now use one of the two built in exchanges to convert your altcoins to bitcoin or some other altcoin  if you so wish. Then just send whatever amount you want from Coinomi to an exchange if you wish to cash out to fiat, and make a new paper wallet for the rest if you feel uncomfortable with having your coins on a phone wallet.

Coinomi/bither apps are a good simple way to cash your fork coins, just empty your wallets from btc before importing the private keys.

Here how a btc tx works:
When you send btc you are simply "crafting" a transaction and broadcasting it online.
For the crafting process you need a private key to "sign" a tx, in other world you need the proof that you are the owner of the coins you want to send, and you can do it by signing a message (the  tx itself) with your private key. You can do it offline, and later send the tx to the network (broadcast).
It's like a rubber stamp, you don't give the rubber stamp away with the document but only the ink stamp (the signature), and you can't reverse engeniering the key from the signature.

[Arriemoller]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

[Toxic2040]

got me a new lambo, a fittness lambo

-snip-

doing something for my health so I can hodl longer 

Nice ride dude..like the colors.

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

LOL'ed


Do you even bitcoin brah?

[Midoucha]

Bitcoin price is being manipulated indeed. I'm sure absolutely sure that the price will do what known as ''The leap of the dead cat''. That mean it will go up near the historical maximum price and then go brutally below 10K $. Meanwhile not happens, the price will oscilate between 12K and 18K$.

[Karartma1]

In between all this short term bearish posts and sentiments, I will make a Bitcoin market cap prediction. Something I don't do often but I feel Bitcoin currently trades at an attractive discount:

Bitcoin today has a market cap <250 billion. Q3 2019 I expect the market cap to be >500 billion.

Please quote me for future reference.

Done and done.

I do hope you are right on this since it looks like if the bears hybernate the market we are going back to 2014/15 patterns. I mean good to buy more but 2017 bull run was amazing to say the least

[d_eddie]

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.

Signing, as jojo69 and erre explained, is the process of adding your key to the transaction. The key is the "owner's seal of approval" for each address that is being charged (only 1 address for the simple, most common transactions).

When you add the key, it gets mixed up with the transaction by crypto magic, so that anyone can easily check the owner's seal, without being able to look at it (in other words: unable to steal it). So a signed transaction is safe to broadcast (that's not just "send"- it's "send for the world to see").

How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

While you sign, the key is exposed. If someone gets hold of it, they can sign any transaction in your name (with ALL your coins from that key's address). So the signing process is best done offline, in a safe box, which a phone generally isn't. What's more, if the key just lives in the phone (which it must if you can sign from it!), when the phone gets compromised you risk losing every single satoshi on it.

[jojo69]

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

two things;

You actually think a phone is ever turned off?

And no, an online computer is no more secure than a phone...that is what the offline computer is for.

[Arriemoller]

Bitcoin price is being manipulated indeed. I'm sure absolutely sure that the price will do what known as ''The leap of the dead cat''. That mean it will go up near the historical maximum price and then go brutally below 10K $. Meanwhile not happens, the price will oscilate between 12K and 18K$.

LOL, "the leap of the dead cat" is also known as a "dead cat bounce" in English.

[erre]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

I tempted to explain it as clear as possible, jojo was a bit more technical but we both kindly tried to save you from complete ignorance.
You are here from 2013 and you should at least be a bit ashamed of not knowing what a signature is, I have not any tech background but these are the bases about how our hobby works.
Hope your other hobby is not rocket-science, or you could have you burned hard soon.

[conspirosphere.tk]

The WO thread today:

[Wekkel]

We got Bitcoin at record highs above $10k and anyone in Alts saw his estate rise twofold this December/January alone and you speak about a bear market?

I am confused  

[d_eddie]

We got Bitcoin at record highs above $10k and anyone in Alts saw his estate rise twofold this December/January alone and you speak about a bear market?

I am confused  

We're spoiled brats, that's what.

[jojo69]

We got Bitcoin at record highs above $10k and anyone in Alts saw his estate rise twofold this December/January alone and you speak about a bear market?

I am confused  

the moon...it has mountains and valleys...who knew?

[Arriemoller]

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.

Signing, as jojo69 and erre explained, is the process of adding your key to the transaction. The key is the "owner's seal of approval" for each address that is being charged (only 1 address for the simple, most common transactions).

When you add the key, it gets mixed up with the transaction by crypto magic, so that anyone can easily check the owner's seal, without being able to look at it (in other words: unable to steal it). So a signed transaction is safe to broadcast (that's not just "send"- it's "send for the world to see").

How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

While you sign, the key is exposed. If someone gets hold of it, they can sign any transaction in your name (with ALL your coins from that key's address). So the signing process is best done offline, in a safe box, which a phone generally isn't. What's more, if the key just lives in the phone (which it must if you can sign from it!), when the phone gets compromised you risk losing every single satoshi on it.

Well, since I don't know what signing is, I never sign. When I move my coins I just scan or type the address of the recipient and hit send. Or if I am going to empty my wallet I might sweep it. What's the problem with that? If wallets aren't safe how are we ever going to be able to buy things? And as I said, my phone with my stash is only on wile I'm doing transactions. The only way to get to my coins would be to steal my phone and know my password. Or somehow get a glimpse of my seed. And neither of that is possible. Believe me, they are stored safely.
You guys are way too paranoid.

Well, since I don't know what signing is, I never sign. When I move my coins I just scan or type the address of the recipient and hit send. Or if I am going to empty my wallet I might sweep it. What's the problem with that? If wallets aren't safe how are we ever going to be able to buy things? And as I said, my phone with my stash is only on wile I'm doing transactions. The only way to get to my coins would be to steal my phone and know my password. Or somehow get a glimpse of my seed. And neither of that is possible. Believe me, they are stored safely.
You guys are way too paranoid.

[d_eddie]

Well, since I don't know what signing is, I never sign. When I move my coins I just scan or type the address of the recipient and hit send.

When you hit send, you are signing without knowing. Without a valid signature, no coin moves!

Or somehow get a glimpse of my seed. And neither of that is possible. Believe me, they are stored safely.

The seed is even more powerful: it's the key to the keymaker shop. With the seed, ALL the keys of ALL the addresses in that wallet are accessible. The whole wallet, not a single address, can go bust.

You guys are way too paranoid.

It's not that we are paranoid. It's that they are after us!!

[Arriemoller]

I'm not the one asking, but I did'n understand any of that.

What is signing, what's an online box and what exactly does broadcast mean in this case?

offline box - An absolutely secure, known and trusted computing environment.  This computer NEVER touches a network.  USB sticks never go from a networked computer to this computer, only the other way around.  Most people use minimalist hardware, old socket AM2 boxes or even raspberry pi for this.  Live Linux sessions are the OS of choice...be sure to check that MD5 checksum kids.

online box - Your day to day posting on WO, reading news, email and porn box.  Assumed to be riddled with keyloggers and zero days, may even have a tiny NSA agent living inside.

signing - Verifies that the transaction in question has been authorized by your private key.  Obviously your private key is not included in a transaction.  Signing is the process whereby you demonstrate to the network that the transaction has been authorized and is in fact valid.  This is a basic function of dual key encryption.  If you don't get this you should sell your bitcoin and store your wealth in a system with a safety net.

broadcast - the process whereby the network becomes aware of the signed transaction.  The transaction data is disseminated to your peer nodes which rebroadcast it.  The aggregate unverified transactions on the network are known as the mempool.  This is the data from which each miner will select their 1MB of choice, choose a nonce and hash.


anyone who keeps more than 1 or 2 BTC on a phone...I just don't know what to say without being rude...you are playing with fire

Ok, so box is just geek for computer, and broadcast is just geek for send, and signing is still a mystery to me.
We do not speak the same language obviously.
How a turned of phone is less secure than a computer that you geeks run all the time is also a mystery to me.
I have no problem what so ever with having my coins on a phone, you are just way to afraid of ghosts.

I tempted to explain it as clear as possible, jojo was a bit more technical but we both kindly tried to save you from complete ignorance.
You are here from 2013 and you should at least be a bit ashamed of not knowing what a signature is, I have not any tech background but these are the bases about how our hobby works.
Hope your other hobby is not rocket-science, or you could have you burned hard soon.

Model trains and coin collecting are my other hobbies, so I guess I'm safe.
Thank you for trying to explain what it is, but as I have mentioned before that doesn't help if I don't know how to do it. It would be a lot more helpful if you just said something like "it's a way of sending coins without hitting the send button live, and you do it by klicking tab so and so and type that and that and then do this and then that, done. The technical mumbo jumbo does not do it for me, sorry but thanks for trying. As I said before, we just don't speak the same language.

[Arriemoller]

Well, since I don't know what signing is, I never sign. When I move my coins I just scan or type the address of the recipient and hit send.

When you hit send, you are signing without knowing. Without a valid signature, no coin moves!

Or somehow get a glimpse of my seed. And neither of that is possible. Believe me, they are stored safely.

The seed is even more powerful: it's the key to the keymaker shop. With the seed, ALL the keys of ALL the addresses in that wallet are accessible. The whole wallet, not a single address, can go bust.

You guys are way too paranoid.

It's not that we are paranoid. It's that they are after us!!

LOL

And yes I know that the seed is the master key to the whole wallet.