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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25492372 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (158 posts by 14 users with 9 merit deleted.)
Syke
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April 12, 2019, 04:01:27 AM

Now there's a proper wall at $4780 on Stamp.
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April 12, 2019, 04:08:53 AM

Your taxes helped poor people and an overwhelming amount of illegal aliens get basic healthcare!?

FTFY. Would rather have put ACA money into building the wall, to mitigate the arguable open border and flood of illegal immigration we are dealing with.

Also, I draw the line at my tax dollars being used for third trimester abortions, in the name of "basic healthcare".

Yeah right... 



A purported black gay man complaining that other socially marginalized people are getting too many societal protections, including access to basic life choices.

The irony.. the irony.
I was not aware that you were a racist JJG.
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April 12, 2019, 04:11:22 AM

A simple fact:

in 1975 the minimal wage was $5.15 EDIT: looked at a wrong reference, apparently it was $2.10/hr in 1975, which is $9.9 now
in 2019 the minimal wage is $7.25

Well, $5.15 2.1 adjusted for inflation would be $24.33 9.9 today, so $15 number is not crazy.

Bob surely produces mixed messages (like paying 1% for 7 fig btc tx is OK, but $15/hr for MickeyD is too much).
The rich are different..., but I liked him more during drinking period...

I would pay 1% of any amount if it meant making sure that I won't lose it. If all other exchanges were Mt. Gox then even 5% could be preferable. It's called an insurance.

I don't see the connection to the minimum wage, which is a function of productivity and income?
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April 12, 2019, 04:18:35 AM

Please let STFU Thursday JJG kindly flow into STFU Friday JJG

Just a friendly WO suggestion.


I'm starting to get it now. Guess it took me longer because I barely skimmed so many of his posts due to the oversupply of redundancy.
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April 12, 2019, 04:22:06 AM

The point about a $15 wage demand at McDonalds, leading to workers being replaced with $35k kiosks, was an example of capitalism and the free market responding to stimulus.

I do automation for a living and am all for $35k kiosks. I also understand well the limits of automation and the need for humans to mop up any deviations.  

The minimum wage in Australia is A$22 which is US$15.60. We have full employment here in Australia (5% unemployment rate).  

If your business is so shit you can’t afford to pay a living wage, then you deserve to go out of business. I’m looking at you, Walmart.
Point in case for the farmer and illegal worker conundrum.
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April 12, 2019, 04:28:27 AM

I don't see the connection to the minimum wage, which is a function of productivity and income?

Historically, there was a connection between productivity and income, but it largely disappeared in the last 45 years or so.
These are the facts:
Productivity change 1973-2017: 77%
Hourly pay during the same period: 12.4%
https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

I don't care what causes this, but it can't be sustainable much longer.
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April 12, 2019, 04:35:27 AM

I believe minimum wage is morally wrong because it makes it illegal for you to sell your labor for under a certain price.

Likely you misspoke, here.  Morally wrong and illegal are two different things.


Likely you misread Lambie... Minimum wages makes ilegal to work being paid less than that... and it is morally wrong to impose such limitation because it ends up in more unemployment and bars from working (and being paid *anything*) people that do not produce/deserve more than that. I do agree... with some reserves though.

I doubt that I misread or misunderstood Lambie...

Minimum wage brings an attempt at a balancing of interests, and sometimes those interests are not very well balanced, but whether something is immoral or illegal tend to be different questions, and sometimes might overlap.. but they are a bit different categories of consideration.
You seem to be misreading or misunderstanding quite a number of post. I've seen you do it with my own posts, with jbreher's posts and now with Lambie's post (even after your display of illiteracy was pointed out to you by bitserve). Perhaps spend more time reading and less time writing?

I don't see the connection to the minimum wage, which is a function of productivity and income?

Historically, there was a connection between productivity and income, but it largely disappeared in the last 45 years or so.
These are the facts:
Productivity change 1973-2017: 77%
Hourly pay during the same period: 12.4%
https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

I don't care what causes this, but it can't be sustainable.
That's a different topic altogether. I don't see the connection between paying 1% on Gemini vs not wanting a minimum wage. One is an insurance, the other is determined based on how much value they add as well as how replaceable the worker is (supply vs demand).

As far as the productivity gap goes. Workers are more productive because of the tools the business owners acquire for their use. As such, the numbers are inaccurate for any worker that does not buy their own tools to use in the business.
JayJuanGee
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April 12, 2019, 04:40:20 AM

Your taxes helped poor people and an overwhelming amount of illegal aliens get basic healthcare!?

FTFY. Would rather have put ACA money into building the wall, to mitigate the arguable open border and flood of illegal immigration we are dealing with.

Also, I draw the line at my tax dollars being used for third trimester abortions, in the name of "basic healthcare".

Yeah right... 



A purported black gay man complaining that other socially marginalized people are getting too many societal protections, including access to basic life choices.

The irony.. the irony.
I was not aware that you were a racist JJG.

Your evidence?  I might have to roll my eyes at you too...



What a goofball!!!!  or would retarded be a better assertion, here?

hahahahaha   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
BTCMILLIONAIRE
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April 12, 2019, 04:44:06 AM

Your taxes helped poor people and an overwhelming amount of illegal aliens get basic healthcare!?

FTFY. Would rather have put ACA money into building the wall, to mitigate the arguable open border and flood of illegal immigration we are dealing with.

Also, I draw the line at my tax dollars being used for third trimester abortions, in the name of "basic healthcare".

Yeah right...  


A purported black gay man complaining that other socially marginalized people are getting too many societal protections, including access to basic life choices.

The irony.. the irony.
I was not aware that you were a racist JJG.

Your evidence?  I might have to roll my eyes at you too...


What a goofball!!!!  or would retarded be a better assertion, here?

hahahahaha   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
The way in which you spam smileys and repeatedly fail to distill the content of posts made by numerous people as well as the fact that your walls of text are generally the same poor points rephrased several times implies very little hope for you if I was truly to be retarded.

Also, calling third trimester abortions "basic life choices" depicts you as a degenerate of the highest order.
Biodom
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April 12, 2019, 04:45:22 AM

I believe minimum wage is morally wrong because it makes it illegal for you to sell your labor for under a certain price.

Likely you misspoke, here.  Morally wrong and illegal are two different things.


Likely you misread Lambie... Minimum wages makes ilegal to work being paid less than that... and it is morally wrong to impose such limitation because it ends up in more unemployment and bars from working (and being paid *anything*) people that do not produce/deserve more than that. I do agree... with some reserves though.

I doubt that I misread or misunderstood Lambie...

Minimum wage brings an attempt at a balancing of interests, and sometimes those interests are not very well balanced, but whether something is immoral or illegal tend to be different questions, and sometimes might overlap.. but they are a bit different categories of consideration.
You seem to be misreading or misunderstanding quite a number of post. I've seen you do it with my own posts, with jbreher's posts and now with Lambie's post (even after your display of illiteracy was pointed out to you by bitserve). Perhaps spend more time reading and less time writing?

I don't see the connection to the minimum wage, which is a function of productivity and income?

Historically, there was a connection between productivity and income, but it largely disappeared in the last 45 years or so.
These are the facts:
Productivity change 1973-2017: 77%
Hourly pay during the same period: 12.4%
https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

I don't care what causes this, but it can't be sustainable.
As far as the productivity gap goes. Workers are more productive because of the tools the business owners acquire for their use. As such, the numbers are inaccurate for any worker that does not buy their own tools to use in the business.

This does not explain why in 1950-1973 period two graphs coincided.
A simpler explanation would be that after 1973 economy get "financialized" and a larger slice of production gains (in %) went into the pocket of financiers, CEOs, etc.
Perhaps it is a natural law, but then 1789 is a natural law as well. Do we want a repeat? I hope, not.
Pauperizing workers cannot end in anything even remotely good down the pike.
Can it last another 50 years?
Maybe, but i hope to be out of the workforce, politics, etc one way or another well before that.
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April 12, 2019, 04:46:06 AM

[edited out]
You seem to be misreading or misunderstanding quite a number of post. I've seen you do it with my own posts, with jbreher's posts and now with Lambie's post (even after your display of illiteracy was pointed out to you by bitserve). Perhaps spend more time reading and less time writing?

Aren't you the expert, now.   Says that didn't read my posts, but knows how to sum them up.  Whoaza!!!

I will let my posts speak for themselves..     Shocked
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April 12, 2019, 04:47:01 AM

[edited out]
You seem to be misreading or misunderstanding quite a number of post. I've seen you do it with my own posts, with jbreher's posts and now with Lambie's post (even after your display of illiteracy was pointed out to you by bitserve). Perhaps spend more time reading and less time writing?

Aren't you the expert, now.   Says that didn't read my posts, but knows how to sum them up.  Whoaza!!!

I will let my posts speak for themselves..     Shocked
I read enough of them to know that you think that killing babies is a "basic life choice".
JayJuanGee
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April 12, 2019, 04:52:58 AM

Your taxes helped poor people and an overwhelming amount of illegal aliens get basic healthcare!?

FTFY. Would rather have put ACA money into building the wall, to mitigate the arguable open border and flood of illegal immigration we are dealing with.

Also, I draw the line at my tax dollars being used for third trimester abortions, in the name of "basic healthcare".

Yeah right...  


A purported black gay man complaining that other socially marginalized people are getting too many societal protections, including access to basic life choices.

The irony.. the irony.
I was not aware that you were a racist JJG.

Your evidence?  I might have to roll my eyes at you too...


What a goofball!!!!  or would retarded be a better assertion, here?

hahahahaha   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
The way in which you spam smileys and repeatedly fail to distill the content of posts made by numerous people as well as the fact that your walls of text are generally the same poor points rephrased several times implies very little hope for you if I was truly to be retarded.

Also, calling third trimester abortions "basic life choices" depicts you as a degenerate of the highest order.

look who woke up on the wrong side of the bed...

JayJuanGee
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April 12, 2019, 04:54:03 AM

[edited out]
You seem to be misreading or misunderstanding quite a number of post. I've seen you do it with my own posts, with jbreher's posts and now with Lambie's post (even after your display of illiteracy was pointed out to you by bitserve). Perhaps spend more time reading and less time writing?

Aren't you the expert, now.   Says that didn't read my posts, but knows how to sum them up.  Whoaza!!!

I will let my posts speak for themselves..     Shocked
I read enough of them to know that you think that killing babies is a "basic life choice".

Look at you.... trying to goad me into nonsense.

You can't even believe that.   Roll Eyes
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April 12, 2019, 04:55:55 AM

As far as the productivity gap goes. Workers are more productive because of the tools the business owners acquire for their use. As such, the numbers are inaccurate for any worker that does not buy their own tools to use in the business.

The productivity tool is a laptop which costs perhaps $1k.  It is neither here nor there who buys the laptop - it’s only $1k.   It is what you do with the laptop that matters.
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1/21000000 , the only math you need to know


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April 12, 2019, 04:56:54 AM

abort 'em all

conception is murder
BTCMILLIONAIRE
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April 12, 2019, 04:59:28 AM

I believe minimum wage is morally wrong because it makes it illegal for you to sell your labor for under a certain price.

Likely you misspoke, here.  Morally wrong and illegal are two different things.


Likely you misread Lambie... Minimum wages makes ilegal to work being paid less than that... and it is morally wrong to impose such limitation because it ends up in more unemployment and bars from working (and being paid *anything*) people that do not produce/deserve more than that. I do agree... with some reserves though.

I doubt that I misread or misunderstood Lambie...

Minimum wage brings an attempt at a balancing of interests, and sometimes those interests are not very well balanced, but whether something is immoral or illegal tend to be different questions, and sometimes might overlap.. but they are a bit different categories of consideration.
You seem to be misreading or misunderstanding quite a number of post. I've seen you do it with my own posts, with jbreher's posts and now with Lambie's post (even after your display of illiteracy was pointed out to you by bitserve). Perhaps spend more time reading and less time writing?

I don't see the connection to the minimum wage, which is a function of productivity and income?

Historically, there was a connection between productivity and income, but it largely disappeared in the last 45 years or so.
These are the facts:
Productivity change 1973-2017: 77%
Hourly pay during the same period: 12.4%
https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

I don't care what causes this, but it can't be sustainable.
As far as the productivity gap goes. Workers are more productive because of the tools the business owners acquire for their use. As such, the numbers are inaccurate for any worker that does not buy their own tools to use in the business.

This does not explain why in 1950-1973 period two graphs coincided.
A simpler explanation would be that after 1973 economy get "financialized" and a larger slice of production gains (in %) went into the pocket of financiers, CEOs, etc.
Perhaps it is a natural law, but then 1789 is a natural law as well. Do we want a repeat? I hope, not.
Pauperizing workers cannot end in anything even remotely good down the pike.
Can it last another 50 years?
Maybe, but i hope to be out of the workforce, politics, etc one way or another well before that.
Resources congregating around a select few central points indeed appears to be a natural law of some sort. Just look at the universe (distribution of galaxies, stars within), countries, cities, wealth etc.

I think the solution to the problem is better education and fact bases political and public discourse though. People need to do things that they and others care about.
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April 12, 2019, 05:20:02 AM
Last edit: April 12, 2019, 06:59:09 AM by VB1001
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)




I am working on something like this, for the monthly statistics of the current year in this format, I will improve the presentation, and historical statistics in an quote format.

Ok?

Why asking for permission?
We are bitcoiners, we should be anarco-crypto-liberists (not liberals).
Just do it, worst thing it can happen, someone will scroll past your post.
I would also add a link to the most merited post  for every month!


If I know, but WO is not a thread of statistics, I think it's more ethical to ask if they like the proposal. I do not want to publish something that does not interest anyone.

The issue of merits will not be in the statistics, it is very controversial and in WO there is talk of BTC, not of merits.
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April 12, 2019, 06:00:25 AM

As far as the productivity gap goes. Workers are more productive because of the tools the business owners acquire for their use. As such, the numbers are inaccurate for any worker that does not buy their own tools to use in the business.

The productivity tool is a laptop which costs perhaps $1k.  It is neither here nor there who buys the laptop - it’s only $1k.   It is what you do with the laptop that matters.
I agree that some of the costs aren't going to be relevant, but I don't think that someone doing "grunt work" (repetitive tasks) while using expensive tools is being as productive as those numbers seem to indicate.

I do not know how strong this effect is, but I doubt it's being sufficiently (or at all) considered given that there is literally zero mention of it. Alas, to me this metric seems like either a lack of statistical understanding or political use of statistics.

If there's an oversupply of workers who can use tools that leverage productivity doing the same tasks then naturally they will earn less.

That means that people are learning the wrong things more than anything though.

People have to learn that when there's an oversupply they should look for other avenues where they can leverage their income better. Too much supply lowers your relative productivity substantially, as such I dispute the claim that worker productivity has gone up. Given the sheer amount of low level tasks I'd lean towards assuming that it remained largely constant.


Also, the productivity tool is not just a laptop. Software, data, data processing (cloud computing) in the case of IT jobs are just some factors that the worker has no ownership of and thus can't be accredited with the increase in productivity that these provide.
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HODL


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April 12, 2019, 06:02:43 AM
Merited by Paashaas (1), LFC_Bitcoin (1)

Good morning WO's! I have a good news!
Changpen Zhao reminded that Craig Wright is not Satoshi, and even delisted Bitcoin SV from the stock exchange.


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