Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Karartma1]

These are scary times. Will make your palms sweaty when playing these little swings during bear markets.

It's not a question on if bitcoin will fail, but the questions are when will it fail, how big will it get before it will fail and how much will it effect other more practical cryptos. Bitcoin is the ultimate modern materialization of pure greed. A lot of people with unrealistic dreams of easy riches and very little practical substance. Currently PoW mining is costing the bitcoin network about 2,5 billion$ annually (https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption). That is the pure electric cost, calculated with the assumption that most mining is done with cheap electricity. And you also have to count in the mining equipment that's development and production is mostly paid by the money from the crypto market, then also things like rent end salaries. The closer realistic cost of running the bitcoin network for a year is closer to 5 billion$. With an optimistic count, it is said that bitcoin has around 3-5million active users. That means that it costs around 1000$ per year for user just to keep bitcoin mining alive. All of these expenses for a payment network without actual advantages...

The millennials, who are the driving force of bitcoin, aren't able to comprehend that someone does have to pick up the bill. The only way that they don't have to pay for the mining mega expenses is for new greater fools to do it instead. But the bleak truth about greater fools is that they always eventually run out. Then bitcoiners have to pay for the mining costs of the network, with the dollar value of their bitcoins. Then you will see how all those "fiat-hating-revolutionary-snowflakes" will screech in distress, over how much less dollars will they get for their bitcoins.

Bolded text is what I am indeed seeing in this whole crypto crazy world. People who had no idea about what a bitcoin is, suddenly become expert traders who can distinguish between a good and a bad crypto coin. I've seen people losing their savings to gamble on tokens, coins and ICOs.

I'm on the train but a part of me is feeling a bit(coin) train sick. And by the way, thanks for the energy consumption insights

[Ibian]

These are scary times. Will make your palms sweaty when playing these little swings during bear markets.

It's not a question on if bitcoin will fail, but the questions are when will it fail, how big will it get before it will fail and how much will it effect other more practical cryptos. Bitcoin is the ultimate modern materialization of pure greed. A lot of people with unrealistic dreams of easy riches and very little practical substance. Currently PoW mining is costing the bitcoin network about 2,5 billion$ annually (https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption). That is the pure electric cost, calculated with the assumption that most mining is done with cheap electricity. And you also have to count in the mining equipment that's development and production is mostly paid by the money from the crypto market, then also things like rent end salaries. The closer realistic cost of running the bitcoin network for a year is closer to 5 billion$. With an optimistic count, it is said that bitcoin has around 3-5million active users. That means that it costs around 1000$ per year for user just to keep bitcoin mining alive. All of these expenses for a payment network without actual advantages...

The millennials, who are the driving force of bitcoin, aren't able to comprehend that someone does have to pick up the bill. The only way that they don't have to pay for the mining mega expenses is for new greater fools to do it instead. But the bleak truth about greater fools is that they always eventually run out. Then bitcoiners have to pay for the mining costs of the network, with the dollar value of their bitcoins. Then you will see how all those "fiat-hating-revolutionary-snowflakes" will screech in distress, over how much less dollars will they get for their bitcoins.

Bolded text is what I am indeed seeing in this whole crypto crazy world. People who had no idea about what a bitcoin is, suddenly become expert traders who can distinguish between a good and a bad crypto coin. I've seen people losing their savings to gamble on tokens, coins and ICOs.

I'm on the train but a part of me is feeling a bit(coin) train sick. And by the way, thanks for the energy consumption insights

Do remember to compare it to the energy the legacy financial system consumes.

[jojo69]

I always appreciate it when a newcomer to the thread makes it abundantly clear in their first post that they should be ignored.

Much more efficient that way.

[HairyMaclairy]

Quite Jojo.

[Jacques_Bittard]

Bolded text is what I am indeed seeing in this whole crypto crazy world. People who had no idea about what a bitcoin is, suddenly become expert traders who can distinguish between a good and a bad crypto coin. I've seen people losing their savings to gamble on tokens, coins and ICOs.

I'm on the train but a part of me is feeling a bit(coin) train sick. And by the way, thanks for the energy consumption insights

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields. Sure it's useful in black markets, but this usefulness is a ticking time bomb before laws will end this. Greed is represented here by the notion that very little people actually seem to care about this. Everyone are solely concentrated on how much higher they want to sell their bitcoins and practical usefulness is rarely asked. Most know a lot about the price of bitcoin, in the same time knowing nothing about the value of bitcoin.

Promises of easy riches will always attract the worst among people. Those who are greedy enough to desire wealth, but who are lazy and stupid enough not to actually be able acquire it. These are the people who have strong desire for wealth, while knowing that they won't ever be able to achieve it in a productive way. They are the ones who are capable in selling their grandmother for bigger gains, because they know that they probably won't get many chances in life.
My guess is that this ugly phase of the crypto world will eventually end together with bitcoin. Total crash of bitcoin would finally disillusion people from finding easy shortcuts to riches here. Only those would remain who are able to work with this market more, then with a "buy low, sell high" routine. The rest will run off to new motivational classes and marketing schemes to find new shortcuts for easy riches.
I have faith in the cryptoasset market in general, but it has to mature quicker or else it will create a big mess.

[Ibian]

Bolded text is what I am indeed seeing in this whole crypto crazy world. People who had no idea about what a bitcoin is, suddenly become expert traders who can distinguish between a good and a bad crypto coin. I've seen people losing their savings to gamble on tokens, coins and ICOs.

I'm on the train but a part of me is feeling a bit(coin) train sick. And by the way, thanks for the energy consumption insights

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields. Sure it's useful in black markets, but this usefulness is a ticking time bomb before laws will end this. Greed is represented here by the notion that very little people actually seem to care about this. Everyone are solely concentrated on how much higher they want to sell their bitcoins and practical usefulness is rarely asked. Most know a lot about the price of bitcoin, in the same time knowing nothing about the value of bitcoin.

Promises of easy riches will always attract the worst among people. Those who are greedy enough to desire wealth, but who are lazy and stupid enough not to actually be able acquire it. These are the people who have strong desire for wealth, while knowing that they won't ever be able to achieve it in a productive way. They are the ones who are capable in selling their grandmother for bigger gains, because they know that they probably won't get many chances in life.
My guess is that this ugly phase of the crypto world will eventually end together with bitcoin. Total crash of bitcoin would finally disillusion people from finding easy shortcuts to riches here. Only those would remain who are able to work with this market more, then with a "buy low, sell high" routine. The rest will run off to new motivational classes and marketing schemes to find new shortcuts for easy riches.
I have faith in the cryptoasset market in general, but it has to mature quicker or else it will create a big mess.

Looks like we have a communist.

[Totscha]

These are scary times. Will make your palms sweaty when playing these little swings during bear markets.

It's not a question on if bitcoin will fail, but the questions are when will it fail, how big will it get before it will fail and how much will it effect other more practical cryptos. Bitcoin is the ultimate modern materialization of pure greed. A lot of people with unrealistic dreams of easy riches and very little practical substance. Currently PoW mining is costing the bitcoin network about 2,5 billion$ annually (https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption). That is the pure electric cost, calculated with the assumption that most mining is done with cheap electricity. And you also have to count in the mining equipment that's development and production is mostly paid by the money from the crypto market, then also things like rent end salaries. The closer realistic cost of running the bitcoin network for a year is closer to 5 billion$. With an optimistic count, it is said that bitcoin has around 3-5million active users. That means that it costs around 1000$ per year for user just to keep bitcoin mining alive. All of these expenses for a payment network without actual advantages...

The millennials, who are the driving force of bitcoin, aren't able to comprehend that someone does have to pick up the bill. The only way that they don't have to pay for the mining mega expenses is for new greater fools to do it instead. But the bleak truth about greater fools is that they always eventually run out. Then bitcoiners have to pay for the mining costs of the network, with the dollar value of their bitcoins. Then you will see how all those "fiat-hating-revolutionary-snowflakes" will screech in distress, over how much less dollars will they get for their bitcoins.

I agree it would be crazy to spend $5 billion / year to run a payment network used by 5 million users (that number is pretty low IMO). That's just wasteful. And if you think Bitcoin is just that, you've been reading some funny pamphlets.

It is in fact a decentralized peer 2 peer network that enables any 2 parties in the world to exchange value over the internet without the need for trust and a central authority.

Was email better than regular mail back in 1990? You needed a $5000 computer and it still took a long time, while a stamp only cost a few cents. What a waste of money, right?

[Jacques_Bittard]

Bolded text is what I am indeed seeing in this whole crypto crazy world. People who had no idea about what a bitcoin is, suddenly become expert traders who can distinguish between a good and a bad crypto coin. I've seen people losing their savings to gamble on tokens, coins and ICOs.

I'm on the train but a part of me is feeling a bit(coin) train sick. And by the way, thanks for the energy consumption insights

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields. Sure it's useful in black markets, but this usefulness is a ticking time bomb before laws will end this. Greed is represented here by the notion that very little people actually seem to care about this. Everyone are solely concentrated on how much higher they want to sell their bitcoins and practical usefulness is rarely asked. Most know a lot about the price of bitcoin, in the same time knowing nothing about the value of bitcoin.

Promises of easy riches will always attract the worst among people. Those who are greedy enough to desire wealth, but who are lazy and stupid enough not to actually be able acquire it. These are the people who have strong desire for wealth, while knowing that they won't ever be able to achieve it in a productive way. They are the ones who are capable in selling their grandmother for bigger gains, because they know that they probably won't get many chances in life.
My guess is that this ugly phase of the crypto world will eventually end together with bitcoin. Total crash of bitcoin would finally disillusion people from finding easy shortcuts to riches here. Only those would remain who are able to work with this market more, then with a "buy low, sell high" routine. The rest will run off to new motivational classes and marketing schemes to find new shortcuts for easy riches.
I have faith in the cryptoasset market in general, but it has to mature quicker or else it will create a big mess.

Looks like we have a communist.

I'm a pure blooded capitalist, but with things like ethics, conscience and a sober mind. Bitcoin has little to do with the idea of capitalism, where efficiency is an important pillar. One of the most important dreams of a typical bitcoiner is wealth re-distribution. They dream that bitcoin will eventually replace central banking, putting them into position of wealth and power, so they can sit on their ass for the rest of their life, while the deflationary value of their currency will even make them richer while they're doing the sitting. To me, this reminds me the illusions that the Bolsheviks had. Talking about vanquishing the evil rich, but only thinking about re-distribution of wealth from other pockets to own pockets. Without actually thinking about the practical issues involved in running a country and drowning in the illusions of personal worth instead. As you can see, I'm not even a fan of communists..

[Ibian]

Bolded text is what I am indeed seeing in this whole crypto crazy world. People who had no idea about what a bitcoin is, suddenly become expert traders who can distinguish between a good and a bad crypto coin. I've seen people losing their savings to gamble on tokens, coins and ICOs.

I'm on the train but a part of me is feeling a bit(coin) train sick. And by the way, thanks for the energy consumption insights

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields. Sure it's useful in black markets, but this usefulness is a ticking time bomb before laws will end this. Greed is represented here by the notion that very little people actually seem to care about this. Everyone are solely concentrated on how much higher they want to sell their bitcoins and practical usefulness is rarely asked. Most know a lot about the price of bitcoin, in the same time knowing nothing about the value of bitcoin.

Promises of easy riches will always attract the worst among people. Those who are greedy enough to desire wealth, but who are lazy and stupid enough not to actually be able acquire it. These are the people who have strong desire for wealth, while knowing that they won't ever be able to achieve it in a productive way. They are the ones who are capable in selling their grandmother for bigger gains, because they know that they probably won't get many chances in life.
My guess is that this ugly phase of the crypto world will eventually end together with bitcoin. Total crash of bitcoin would finally disillusion people from finding easy shortcuts to riches here. Only those would remain who are able to work with this market more, then with a "buy low, sell high" routine. The rest will run off to new motivational classes and marketing schemes to find new shortcuts for easy riches.
I have faith in the cryptoasset market in general, but it has to mature quicker or else it will create a big mess.

Looks like we have a communist.

I'm a pure blooded capitalist, but with things like ethics, conscience and a sober mind. Bitcoin has little to do with the idea of capitalism, where efficiency is an important pillar. One of the most important dreams of a typical bitcoiner is wealth re-distribution. They dream that bitcoin will eventually replace central banking, putting them into position of wealth and power, so they can sit on their ass for the rest of their life, while the deflationary value of their currency will even make them richer while they're doing the sitting. To me, this reminds me the illusions that the Bolsheviks had. Talking about vanquishing the evil rich, but only thinking about re-distribution of wealth from other pockets to own pockets. Without actually thinking about the practical issues involved in running a country and drowning in the illusions of personal worth instead. As you can see, I'm not even a fan of communists..

It wasn't a question.

Also it never ceases to amaze me how just a few words can inspire a lengthy rant from your type. But that's what a liar's gotta do. Talk long enough to obfuscate what is really being said.

[orpington]

Bolded text is what I am indeed seeing in this whole crypto crazy world. People who had no idea about what a bitcoin is, suddenly become expert traders who can distinguish between a good and a bad crypto coin. I've seen people losing their savings to gamble on tokens, coins and ICOs.

I'm on the train but a part of me is feeling a bit(coin) train sick. And by the way, thanks for the energy consumption insights

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields. Sure it's useful in black markets, but this usefulness is a ticking time bomb before laws will end this. Greed is represented here by the notion that very little people actually seem to care about this. Everyone are solely concentrated on how much higher they want to sell their bitcoins and practical usefulness is rarely asked. Most know a lot about the price of bitcoin, in the same time knowing nothing about the value of bitcoin.

Promises of easy riches will always attract the worst among people. Those who are greedy enough to desire wealth, but who are lazy and stupid enough not to actually be able acquire it. These are the people who have strong desire for wealth, while knowing that they won't ever be able to achieve it in a productive way. They are the ones who are capable in selling their grandmother for bigger gains, because they know that they probably won't get many chances in life.
My guess is that this ugly phase of the crypto world will eventually end together with bitcoin. Total crash of bitcoin would finally disillusion people from finding easy shortcuts to riches here. Only those would remain who are able to work with this market more, then with a "buy low, sell high" routine. The rest will run off to new motivational classes and marketing schemes to find new shortcuts for easy riches.
I have faith in the cryptoasset market in general, but it has to mature quicker or else it will create a big mess.

Looks like we have a communist.

I'm a pure blooded capitalist, but with things like ethics, conscience and a sober mind. Bitcoin has little to do with the idea of capitalism, where efficiency is an important pillar. One of the most important dreams of a typical bitcoiner is wealth re-distribution. They dream that bitcoin will eventually replace central banking, putting them into position of wealth and power, so they can sit on their ass for the rest of their life, while the deflationary value of their currency will even make them richer while they're doing the sitting. To me, this reminds me the illusions that the Bolsheviks had. Talking about vanquishing the evil rich, but only thinking about re-distribution of wealth from other pockets to own pockets. Without actually thinking about the practical issues involved in running a country and drowning in the illusions of personal worth instead. As you can see, I'm not even a fan of communists..

another wordy communist...

[olumyd]

Bolded text is what I am indeed seeing in this whole crypto crazy world. People who had no idea about what a bitcoin is, suddenly become expert traders who can distinguish between a good and a bad crypto coin. I've seen people losing their savings to gamble on tokens, coins and ICOs.

I'm on the train but a part of me is feeling a bit(coin) train sick. And by the way, thanks for the energy consumption insights

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields. Sure it's useful in black markets, but this usefulness is a ticking time bomb before laws will end this. Greed is represented here by the notion that very little people actually seem to care about this. Everyone is solely concentrated on how much higher they want to sell their bitcoins and practical usefulness is rarely asked. Most know a lot about the price of bitcoin, at the same time knowing nothing about the value of bitcoin.

Promises of easy riches will always attract the worst among people. Those who are greedy enough to desire wealth, but who are lazy and stupid enough not to actually be able to acquire it. These are the people who have a strong desire for wealth while knowing that they won't ever be able to achieve it in a productive way. They are the ones who are capable in selling their grandmother for bigger gains because they know that they probably won't get many chances in life.
My guess is that this ugly phase of the crypto world will eventually end together with bitcoin. Total crash of bitcoin would finally disillusion people from finding easy shortcuts to riches here. Only those would remain who are able to work with this market more, then with a "buy low, sell high" routine. The rest will run off to new motivational classes and marketing schemes to find new shortcuts for easy riches.
I have faith in the cryptoasset market in general, but it has to mature quicker or else it will create a big mess.

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields. Sure it's useful in black markets, but this usefulness is a ticking time bomb before laws will end this. Greed is represented here by the notion that very little people actually seem to care about this. Everyone are solely concentrated on how much higher they want to sell their bitcoins and practical usefulness is rarely asked. Most know a lot about the price of bitcoin, in the same time knowing nothing about the value of bitcoin.

Firstly, everything money related attracts greed and wantonness. As for usefulness; Who gives value to Fiat as a medium of exchange? - government. Who are the government? - the people. If there has to be usefulness and mass adoption for cryptocurrencies (with BTC leading into the mainstream), then all test parameters must be concluded beyond tradable asset quality. So far bitcoin hasn't survived a massive financial crisis attack or extreme devaluation. So we are still in the testing phase of a new global financial exchange system. Right now, people only care about how not to get stuck in debt when there's a way out - trading supposedly digital assets that can be exchanged relatively for fiat.

Promises of easy riches will always attract the worst among people. Those who are greedy enough to desire wealth, but who are lazy and stupid enough not to actually be able acquire it. These are the people who have strong desire for wealth, while knowing that they won't ever be able to achieve it in a productive way. They are the ones who are capable in selling their grandmother for bigger gains, because they know that they probably won't get many chances in life.

Reality isn't a thunderbolt, so being shocked at how far people can go to earn that extra buck is old news. The question therefore is, should they do it transporting illegal drugs and trafficking people? or sit at home and trade digital assets that have little or no harm currently - well other than people getting more money to engage in vices, don't see anything wrong there.

I have faith in the crypto assets market in general, but it has to mature quicker or else it will create a big mess.

The system is still young and quite too early to predict so much about the market at its current state. If there are similarities to previous systems that have failed and eventually crashed, this doesn't mean this will turn out exactly the same way, afterall, each system has its peculiar journey to make and then will learn from the entire process.

[ol92]

Bolded text is what I am indeed seeing in this whole crypto crazy world. People who had no idea about what a bitcoin is, suddenly become expert traders who can distinguish between a good and a bad crypto coin. I've seen people losing their savings to gamble on tokens, coins and ICOs.

I'm on the train but a part of me is feeling a bit(coin) train sick. And by the way, thanks for the energy consumption insights

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields. Sure it's useful in black markets, but this usefulness is a ticking time bomb before laws will end this. Greed is represented here by the notion that very little people actually seem to care about this. Everyone are solely concentrated on how much higher they want to sell their bitcoins and practical usefulness is rarely asked. Most know a lot about the price of bitcoin, in the same time knowing nothing about the value of bitcoin.

Promises of easy riches will always attract the worst among people. Those who are greedy enough to desire wealth, but who are lazy and stupid enough not to actually be able acquire it. These are the people who have strong desire for wealth, while knowing that they won't ever be able to achieve it in a productive way. They are the ones who are capable in selling their grandmother for bigger gains, because they know that they probably won't get many chances in life.
My guess is that this ugly phase of the crypto world will eventually end together with bitcoin. Total crash of bitcoin would finally disillusion people from finding easy shortcuts to riches here. Only those would remain who are able to work with this market more, then with a "buy low, sell high" routine. The rest will run off to new motivational classes and marketing schemes to find new shortcuts for easy riches.
I have faith in the cryptoasset market in general, but it has to mature quicker or else it will create a big mess.

Looks like we have a communist.

I'm a pure blooded capitalist, but with things like ethics, conscience and a sober mind. Bitcoin has little to do with the idea of capitalism, where efficiency is an important pillar. One of the most important dreams of a typical bitcoiner is wealth re-distribution. They dream that bitcoin will eventually replace central banking, putting them into position of wealth and power, so they can sit on their ass for the rest of their life, while the deflationary value of their currency will even make them richer while they're doing the sitting. To me, this reminds me the illusions that the Bolsheviks had. Talking about vanquishing the evil rich, but only thinking about re-distribution of wealth from other pockets to own pockets. Without actually thinking about the practical issues involved in running a country and drowning in the illusions of personal worth instead. As you can see, I'm not even a fan of communists..

People early involved in bitcoin weren't like this: there were - and there are still - people which believed that bitcoin - and crypto in general - could bring a better financial system, with alleviating the necessity of Tiers in financial exchanges, leading to the end of the bank oligarchy.

But I agree with you that with the financial gains, bitcoin and crypto has attracted more and more profit driven people, and some early bitcoiners have lost their initial motivation, becoming increasingly similar to "normal" rich people looking for increasing their money...

[Jacques_Bittard]

I agree it would be crazy to spend $5 billion / year to run a payment network used by 5 million users (that number is pretty low IMO). That's just wasteful. And if you think Bitcoin is just that, you've been reading some funny pamphlets.

It is in fact a decentralized peer 2 peer network that enables any 2 parties in the world to exchange value over the internet without the need for trust and a central authority.

Was email better than regular mail back in 1990? You needed a $5000 computer and it still took a long time, while a stamp only cost a few cents. What a waste of money, right?

In my eyes, the problem is exactly that bitcoin isn't nothing but an expensive payment network. It is often called a "cryptocurrency", but in my eyes it is a gimmick of an currency, when it doesn't have an independent mechanism for value stabilization. As long as it has to use fiat to give it value, then fiat will still be the only currency in the pair and bitcoin is just the temporal solution to transfer fiat. That is why, in my technical point of view, it is the same to hope for bitcoin to replace fiat then to hope for your car to fly to the moon. In this reality these things just don't have the needed mechanics for the job..
Don't take me as a pessimist by this. I think that in the future we will have an cryptoasset that is able to break this currency boundary and will be able to actually offer an predictable value without the need for the support of fiat value. Trying to wish bitcoin to do this isn't just constructive use of energy. All these false hopes and illusions will only make a big mess and the people who profit for it aren't exactly the good kind.
I also think that you can't compare the e-mail protocol to bitcoin protocol. One is a communication protocol, you can compare it to IRC if you like. Bitcoin is an financial protocol with a lot more complexities and different rule-sets.

[Wekkel]

It is in fact a decentralized peer 2 peer network that enables any 2 parties in the world to exchange value over the internet without the need for trust and a central authority.

This is all you need to remember. This little red and green here and there will be just a distant blip in a few years.

[olumyd]

Bolded text is what I am indeed seeing in this whole crypto crazy world. People who had no idea about what a bitcoin is, suddenly become expert traders who can distinguish between a good and a bad crypto coin. I've seen people losing their savings to gamble on tokens, coins and ICOs.

I'm on the train but a part of me is feeling a bit(coin) train sick. And by the way, thanks for the energy consumption insights

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields. Sure it's useful in black markets, but this usefulness is a ticking time bomb before laws will end this. Greed is represented here by the notion that very little people actually seem to care about this. Everyone are solely concentrated on how much higher they want to sell their bitcoins and practical usefulness is rarely asked. Most know a lot about the price of bitcoin, in the same time knowing nothing about the value of bitcoin.

Promises of easy riches will always attract the worst among people. Those who are greedy enough to desire wealth, but who are lazy and stupid enough not to actually be able acquire it. These are the people who have strong desire for wealth, while knowing that they won't ever be able to achieve it in a productive way. They are the ones who are capable in selling their grandmother for bigger gains, because they know that they probably won't get many chances in life.
My guess is that this ugly phase of the crypto world will eventually end together with bitcoin. Total crash of bitcoin would finally disillusion people from finding easy shortcuts to riches here. Only those would remain who are able to work with this market more, then with a "buy low, sell high" routine. The rest will run off to new motivational classes and marketing schemes to find new shortcuts for easy riches.
I have faith in the cryptoasset market in general, but it has to mature quicker or else it will create a big mess.

Looks like we have a communist.

I'm a pure blooded capitalist, but with things like ethics, conscience and a sober mind. Bitcoin has little to do with the idea of capitalism, where efficiency is an important pillar. One of the most important dreams of a typical bitcoiner is wealth re-distribution. They dream that bitcoin will eventually replace central banking, putting them into position of wealth and power, so they can sit on their ass for the rest of their life, while the deflationary value of their currency will even make them richer while they're doing the sitting. To me, this reminds me the illusions that the Bolsheviks had. Talking about vanquishing the evil rich, but only thinking about re-distribution of wealth from other pockets to own pockets. Without actually thinking about the practical issues involved in running a country and drowning in the illusions of personal worth instead. As you can see, I'm not even a fan of communists..

People early involved in bitcoin weren't like this: there were - and there are still - people which believed that bitcoin - and crypto in general - could bring a better financial system, with alleviating the necessity of Tiers in financial exchanges, leading to the end of the bank oligarchy.

But I agree with you that with the financial gains, bitcoin and crypto has attracted more and more profit driven people, and some early bitcoiners have lost their initial motivation, becoming increasingly similar to "normal" rich people looking for increasing their money...

There's a fine line in business, and the weight is certainly on the side of the profit, no one wants to engage ina non-profiting venture, it may not pay in green currencies, however, it does provide certain relaxation and satisfaction of achievement. If I put a dollar in a business and get 50cents in return I am most likely going to think of something different to avoid such an outcome. Yes! crypto has encouraged profit driven people, well at least, it is giving everyone an equal opportunity and decentralising the profits.

[Ibian]

I agree it would be crazy to spend $5 billion / year to run a payment network used by 5 million users (that number is pretty low IMO). That's just wasteful. And if you think Bitcoin is just that, you've been reading some funny pamphlets.

It is in fact a decentralized peer 2 peer network that enables any 2 parties in the world to exchange value over the internet without the need for trust and a central authority.

Was email better than regular mail back in 1990? You needed a $5000 computer and it still took a long time, while a stamp only cost a few cents. What a waste of money, right?

In my eyes, the problem is exactly that bitcoin isn't nothing but an expensive payment network. It is often called a "cryptocurrency", but in my eyes it is a gimmick of an currency, when it doesn't have an independent mechanism for value stabilization. As long as it has to use fiat to give it value, then fiat will still be the only currency in the pair and bitcoin is just the temporal solution to transfer fiat. That is why, in my technical point of view, it is the same to hope for bitcoin to replace fiat then to hope for your car to fly to the moon. In this reality these things just don't have the needed mechanics for the job..
Don't take me as a pessimist by this. I think that in the future we will have an cryptoasset that is able to break this currency boundary and will be able to actually offer an predictable value without the need for the support of fiat value. Trying to wish bitcoin to do this isn't just constructive use of energy. All these false hopes and illusions will only make a big mess and the people who profit for it aren't exactly the good kind.

Brevity, comrade. Nobody is going to read those huge blocks.

[olumyd]

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields.

What ? I... just... huh ?

Lol... don't go into a cardiac attack just yet... The guy's got a point, - 'legal'..., there are no current state or federal stamps on BTC codes acknowledging it as a medium of exchange, however, it does suit the masses to do as they please -  freedom of... something.

[Ibian]

General reminder that bitcoin would never have become more than a forgotten project worth about a basket of apples without the ability to make money on it. Greed is good.

[Jacques_Bittard]

General reminder that bitcoin would never have become more than a forgotten project worth about a basket of apples without the ability to make money on it. Greed is good.

Greed is productive in moderation. Too much of it and things mostly end bad.

[HairyMaclairy]

The ugliest truth of bitcoin is that it just isn't useful in any legal fields.

What ? I... just... huh ?

Lol... don't go into a cardiac attack just yet... The guy's got a point, - 'legal'..., there are no current state or federal stamps on BTC codes acknowledging it as a medium of exchange, however, it does suit the masses to do as they please -  freedom of... something.

If you want to be technical, something does not need to be acknowledged as a medium of exchange in order to create a binding legal obligation.  “I agree to trade my goat for two of your sheep” is legally enforceable even if neither sheep nor goats are recognized as mediums of exchange.