Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[HairyMaclairy]

It wouldn't be just TA. Getting above 10k anytime soon would bring a fresh round of bullish news stories and newbies fomoing.

If it’s not drawn in crayon it doesn’t count

[HairyMaclairy]

You will not find anyone here who thinks that BCH will ever be $4k again ..even if BTC attains even the wildest predictions.

The trend BTC/BCH is very clearly lower.

It still has the support of Bitmain and another BTC bubble would presumably provide them a war chest with which to pump it. I mean, they're a million deep in that shit, so I'd certainly not rule it out.

No.  Bitmain has abandoned Bcash. Jihan is now bagholder extraordinaire

[JayJuanGee]

You guys think we will ever see BCash @$4k again within any bullrun? I feel like I lost a fortune by not selling @4k and kept that scam hodling.

Yes, we can
https://www.coindesk.com/coinlabs-mt-gox-claim-may-hold-up-payouts-for-another-2-years
"Coinlab’s claim"
Bitcoin gold is also a fork of Bitcoin but ....

The fuck does that have to do with Bcash going to 4k?

Also, the stupid ass Gox related article is from April 6.. 

what a diptwat, struggling to spread old FUD as if it were new.

I know you have suggested altcoins will have one last pump in the next bull run, do you include BCH in your assessment? If in fact they do have one last pump, are you of the view they will all surpass their previous ATH?

I don't really like to talk about alt coins, nor to waste my brain power on sorting through what causes some of them to be able to pump, whether it is marketing or momentum, but part of my presumptions that various altcoins will pump along with bitcoin for at least one more time around is because so far, they do not really seem to have been killed off.  If the bitcoin bear market would have persisted below $3,122 and even had reached into the lower $2,xxxs - as well as dragging out a kind of stagnation for another year or two (prior to our April 1 pump), then that kind of overall negativism in the bitcoin space would have likely also caused some lethal suffering to alt coins, but that did not happen.. so in my thinking the various altcoins and their dumb - scammy - vaporware ideas have not really been killed, so you cannot really stop people from being mislead into believing that altcoins (could) have more profit potential than bitcoin.

I have no real ideas which of the altcoins are NOT going to screw themselves over and continue to be able deceive people into thinking that they have some kind of value that is comparable to bitcoin's value....

So I really have few clues about which alts are coming along for our next BTC ride - even ETH has gained some mindshare and developer share and infrastructure that causes it to continue to be able to be pumped beyond belief, so who would have thought that continued growth from such crap of 14 year olds was feasible or reasonable given the extent of their messy terabyte blocks and various other messy aspects.

My point is that I can see a bunch of money still going into various altcoin space, while I remain puzzled about which ones will pump.. whether already existing ones, new ones or just some kinds of rotating of ones that already exist but might show greater fame from time to time than others.

I guess that I remain conservative too because even though several of the bcash forks seem quit dead whether ABC or SV, there low market cap could cause them to be pumped at various times and maybe make some traction.

[Last of the V8s]

[d_eddie]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bitcoins-wild-ride-60-minutes-2019-05-19/
13 minutes. plus transcript for eddie
but quel dull

If that eddie is me, thank you! I do like transcripts much more than video or audio blahblah*.

Bit of profit-taking on a good week. Then more long.

I couldn't resist, either. As soon as my head cooled off after going flat, I placed a limit long under 8k, and it executed. So now I have a tiny long in the green. Stop limit will salvage a few satoshis if the worst happens.

* Except for the video of RV losing his temper and giving the finger to John Carvalho for calling bcash "bcash".

[toknormal]

I don't really like to talk about alt coins, nor to waste my brain power on sorting through what causes some of them to be able to pump, whether it is marketing or momentum, but part of my presumptions that various altcoins will pump along with bitcoin for at least one more time around is because so far, they do not really seem to have been killed off.

There's no rocket science to that.

Digital assets are not a natural monopoly, that's all. "Maximalists" say they are. Markets say they're not because markets like diversity and crypto-assets are neither technical standards nor world currencies. They're just a digital commodity used for parking temporarily idle capital.

Moreover, Bitcoin - though it will remain the most valuable long term crypto reserve - NEEDS a healthy alt-coin market to survive and grow. I won't go into this again here as arguments already well rehearsed, but suffice to say the nonsense about altcoins being "wiped out" is ridiculous and always has been.

[HairyMaclairy]

Metcalfe’s Law.  A shitcoin with zero users has a value of zero.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law

You still haven’t come up with a single alt with actual real world users.  

[toknormal]

Metcalfe’s Law.  A shitcoin with zero users has a value of zero.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law

Well that makes bitcoin worthless too from many perspectives.

bitcoin is more like an industrial standard like usb or internet.

Hmm. Maybe more like a standard for brush heads.

We're 10 years in and there are now 4 million blockchain transactions occurring each day, only about 0.3 Million (6%) of which are on the bitcoin network.

The thing about all these useless commentaries is that they're aways made by bagholders. If you read the mainstream press through the years you'll see exactly the same claims made about bitcoin as "maximalists" now make about alt coins. Then later you hear them trumpetting the opposite view - once they're "in".

The number of empty theories I've heard about this or that going to zero/moon, wiping stuff out or being scams has just developed into a low buzzing drone, there's so many of them. The fact is that altcoins are here to stay. There is no "Metcalfe’s Law" craperry cherry picked theories that will deny markets their diversity I'm afraid.

[gembitz]

http://boards.4channel.org/biz/thread/13616424/paul-solotshi-calder-le-roux-the-real-satoshi

 

weeeee

[HairyMaclairy]

Bitcoin is a store of value. Everyone on this thread is actively doing just that (trolls excluded) .  We are a thriving community and only one tiny corner of the Bitcoin ecosystem (even if I would like to think we are near the centre).   Many of us have significant amounts of value tied up in Bitcoin.  

You keep avoiding the ‘no real life users’ of alts problem.  

[gembitz]

Bitcoin is a store of value. Everyone on this thread is actively doing just that (trolls excluded) .  Many of us have significant amounts of value tied up in Bitcoin.  

You keep avoiding the ‘no real life users’ of alts problem.  

~dat value of salt mining weeeee

===>

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2890164/Revealed-successful-criminal-mastermind-ve-never-heard-real-life-Bond-villain-cocaine-gun-empire-spanning-four-continents-s-turned-super-snitch.html

[JayJuanGee]

I don't really like to talk about alt coins, nor to waste my brain power on sorting through what causes some of them to be able to pump, whether it is marketing or momentum, but part of my presumptions that various altcoins will pump along with bitcoin for at least one more time around is because so far, they do not really seem to have been killed off.

There's no rocket science to that.

Digital assets are not a natural monopoly, that's all. "Maximalists" say they are. Markets say they're not because markets like diversity and crypto-assets are neither technical standards nor world currencies. They're just a digital commodity used for parking temporarily idle capital.

Moreover, Bitcoin - though it will remain the most valuable long term crypto reserve - NEEDS a healthy alt-coin market to survive and grow. I won't go into this again here as arguments already well rehearsed, but suffice to say the nonsense about altcoins being "wiped out" is ridiculous and always has been.

There seems to be something off about the way that you frame your arguments, here... including your ongoing assertions that bitcoin needs alts.. blah blah blah... Even though a dog might need a tail, the tail does not wag the dog, the dog wags the tail, so get out of here with your ongoing suggestions that altcoins play a larger role than they actually do in reality.

There are theories and principles regarding sound money that have never exactly been put into play in such a way that involves any kind of money that is as sound as bitcoin, at least in theory.  Therefore, if bitcoin is as sound as it purports to be, then value will gravitate into bitcoin, and even though there might be some utility reasons to use other coins, they would not attract much value - except transactional.  If bitcoin does not prove to be as sound of a money as it is made out to be, then that would cause justifications for other kinds of coins.  It could take 50 or more years to see how this plays out, and whether bitcoin does prove to be as sound as it currently seems to be on a relative basis. 

So, until all of this sound money bullshit and gravitation of value into bitcoin bullshit plays out, there is a lot of room for snake oil salesmen and their various lame imitations.  Just because those bullshit coins persist for a long time (50 years or more) does not mean that it is inevitable that such shit coins have to exist, and that remains the part that could take a long time to play out. 

Yes, I see you don't seem to buy such fat protocol theory, and maybe you will be right, but I imagine both of us could be dead by the time the evidence really plays out, but in the meantime I am not going to be distracted to invest into various shitcoins even if I might be able to make more money on them than I can on bitcoin, because I don't want to bother myself with shit scams, even if they have decent chances of being financially profitable for as long as it is relevant to my own life...

Also, I do admit psychological preference to bitcoin because there does not appear to be any coin that comes even close to bitcoin in terms of soundness of money, and that is why my crypto investments are more than 98% in bitcoin.  Of course, I have other investments too because I am no spring chicken, but I continue to believe that investing in bitcoin serves whatever diversification away from my other dollar related investments that I have no need to diversify into other alt coins because they merely tag along with bitcoin anyhow.... the dog wagging the tail and not the tail wagging the dog... as I already mentioned.

[Torque]

The fact is that altcoins are here to stay. There is no "Metcalfe’s Law" craperry cherry picked theories that will deny markets their diversity I'm afraid.

That may be true that the alt coin market as a whole is here to stay, but that doesn't make any of the individual shitcoins within it lasting. There will always be shitcoins du jour. It'll be a constant, ever changing, revolving door of shit.

The ETHs, XRPs, EOSes, TRONs, DASHs, Tezos, etc. of today are just the next Feathercoins, Ixcoins, Vertcoins, Auroracoins, Dodgecoins, Quarks, etc. of tomorrow. They're all shit and bring nothing of value to the table.

Moreover, Bitcoin - though it will remain the most valuable long term crypto reserve - NEEDS a healthy alt-coin market to survive and grow.

By that if you mean that Bitcoin^TM needs a giant steaming pile of garbage shitcoins to contrast against, and prove to itself and the public what NOT to aspire to, then yes I agree.   I also believe that the giant, ever-growing shitcoin pile is actually HELPING Bitcoin^TM's cause.

[toknormal]

You keep avoiding the ‘no real life users’ of alts problem.

What exactly do you mean by a "real life user".

In monetary assets, a "real life user" is simply someone who's invested. Here - see some metals belonging to "real life users".

Here's some "real life users" making transactions on blockchains. I presume those in the top 5 are just wasting their lives by not doing them on the "holy" bitcoin chain.

Here's some "real life users" providing trustless, blockchain sourced liquidity to traders requiring stable, pegged assets to national currencies. Maybe they should have just stuck with BTC and accepted the losses when their guvpaper based goods prices were rendered irrelevant. (Not to mention the "real life users" making money by shorting or longing that asset onto its peg - but, hey, just hold BTC instead, otherwise you're not a "real life user" ? )

Here's some making money from running masternodes on the Dash network and securing the "o-conf" end of the confirmation cycle so crypto can be used in instant transaction scenarios. As far as I know they're "real life users".

Ethereum is adding thousands of developers every year to its ecosystem but I'm sure that doesn't count as "real life users" as they're not on the bitcoin network, nor are they "users", they're developers.

The reason you folks think there's "nothing going on" and "no value" in other chains is simply because you're so f*ng fanatically tunnel visioned that you've already defined yourselves a self fulfilling prophecy.

Might be an idea to wake tf up and realise that because not everybody thinks like you, not everybody invests like you - at least not exclusively.

[Torque]

Might be an idea to wake tf up and realise that because not everybody thinks like you, not everybody invests like you - at least not exclusively.

But the MAJORITY do, and that's who really counts in the cryptosphere, isn't it? The MAJORITY is who Bitcoin is trying to appeal to and win over. Literally everyone, even your grandma and grandpa too. Not a few "crazy" investors.

[yefi]

No.  Bitmain has abandoned Bcash. Jihan is now bagholder extraordinaire

Jihan still holds strategic direction with Zhan, so we should be cautious in assuming they've abandoned it. A big smile will cross my face if Jihan has been truly sidelined though.

[bones261]

It appears that my user name (along with others) made it on 60 minutes tonight for a few seconds.

image upload

[toknormal]

Might be an idea to wake tf up and realise that because not everybody thinks like you, not everybody invests like you - at least not exclusively.

But the MAJORITY do, and that's who really counts in the cryptosphere, isn't it? The MAJORITY is who Bitcoin is trying to appeal to and win over. Not a few "crazy" investors.

I doubt it.

The "majority" has never been invested in reserve assets. They've been invested in the utility assets that make the money that flows into the reserve assets. That's why you're seeing bitcoin dominance decrease over the years even though its price and marketcap rises.

[gembitz]

You keep avoiding the ‘no real life users’ of alts problem.

What exactly do you mean by a "real life user".

In monetary assets, a "real life user" is simply someone who's invested. Here - see some metals belonging to "real life users".

Here's some "real life users" making transactions on blockchains. I presume those in the top 5 are just wasting their lives by not doing them on the "holy" bitcoin chain.

Here's some "real life users" providing trustless, blockchain sourced liquidity to traders requiring stable, pegged assets to national currencies. Maybe they should have just stuck with BTC and accepted the losses when their guvpaper based goods prices were rendered irrelevant. (Not to mention the "real life users" making money by shorting or longing that asset onto its peg - but, hey, just hold BTC instead, otherwise you're not a "real life user" ? )

Here's some making money from running masternodes on the Dash network and securing the "o-conf" end of the confirmation cycle so crypto can be used in instant transaction scenarios. As far as I know they're "real life users".

Ethereum is adding thousands of developers every year to its ecosystem but I'm sure that doesn't count as "real life users" as they're not on the bitcoin network, nor are they "users", they're developers.

The reason you folks think there's "nothing going on" and "no value" in other chains is simply because you're so f*ng fanatically tunnel visioned that you've already defined yourselves a self fulfilling prophecy.

Might be an idea to wake tf up and realise that because not everybody thinks like you, not everybody invests like you - at least not exclusively.

drug dealers & endusers weee

[Toxic2040]

It appears that my user name (along with others) made it on 60 minutes tonight for a few seconds.

image upload