ICONOMI - Live for today. Invest for tomorrow.

[d3nc3nd]

Holy fuck, look at Stratis.
Damn, wish I had invested in that one instead, with 1/12 of Iconomi's budget and they have done 30x.
mother of fuck.
Very disappointed on ICN so far to tell you the truth, looks like a bust.
First the delays, then they fuck up with the dividends.
Dividends was their selling ppint, what kind of dumbos change their selling point.
How fucking stupid can you be, it's suicide in this business, unless they don't give a fuck anymore
since they made their money, and trying to screw us over.

They better man up to their promises and start buying back in bulk.
Push it to at least 20x. Useless fucking russian scumbags.

They are not Russian

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[cryptohunter]

So i've been away for a while now.

If you have funds on the ICO site what is best to do now??

Is there a working investment console ready and functioning so that I can move my icn there and benefit from their ico investments made on my behalf yet or still best to leave it on the ico site?

What about the investments icn already made like golem etc? did you have to have the icn in your wallets to benefit from these gains or were the calculated and added to the ico funds already there?

we are yet to hear from the team about their ico investments after golem, santiment. It's been almost two months since their last blog post about their santiment investment. I am not sure whether they haven't invested in any of the recent icos such as wetrust, cosmos, matchpool etc. or they invested but yet to publish the news about their investments. Either way, the communication has to be better.

They should be a dashboard on ICN homepage indicating the Net Asset Value (NAV) of all holdings.

This is quite ridiculous. So they have our funds and we have no idea what is being bought sold nothing?

Did they claim on byteball with the ico funds I hope so since that would be a big chunk of free returns for us all.

Is this correct. I was under the impression this would all be 100% transparent?

Anyway for now when will we get on polo? since I don't want to leave my coins on the ico site for too much longer if possible.

they announce investments in ICOs after the ICO has finished. You can read about them in the official medium page. You will find info about byteball as well

Okay that's fair enough. So all those that invested in the ICO are benefitting from the drastic rise from golem ?

I mean so far there is no site or any way to decide what you use your icn to invest in so I guess they are just doing it all on our behalf and we will eventually get all the dividends shared out between us all.

I hope they finish up the console soon so we can either leave our icn on auto pilot and they invest for us or we decide which projects we go for.

[SEOcrypto]

So i've been away for a while now.

If you have funds on the ICO site what is best to do now??

Is there a working investment console ready and functioning so that I can move my icn there and benefit from their ico investments made on my behalf yet or still best to leave it on the ico site?

What about the investments icn already made like golem etc? did you have to have the icn in your wallets to benefit from these gains or were the calculated and added to the ico funds already there?

we are yet to hear from the team about their ico investments after golem, santiment. It's been almost two months since their last blog post about their santiment investment. I am not sure whether they haven't invested in any of the recent icos such as wetrust, cosmos, matchpool etc. or they invested but yet to publish the news about their investments. Either way, the communication has to be better.

They should be a dashboard on ICN homepage indicating the Net Asset Value (NAV) of all holdings.

This is quite ridiculous. So they have our funds and we have no idea what is being bought sold nothing?

Did they claim on byteball with the ico funds I hope so since that would be a big chunk of free returns for us all.

Is this correct. I was under the impression this would all be 100% transparent?

Anyway for now when will we get on polo? since I don't want to leave my coins on the ico site for too much longer if possible.

they announce investments in ICOs after the ICO has finished. You can read about them in the official medium page. You will find info about byteball as well

Okay that's fair enough. So all those that invested in the ICO are benefitting from the drastic rise from golem ?

I mean so far there is no site or any way to decide what you use your icn to invest in so I guess they are just doing it all on our behalf and we will eventually get all the dividends shared out between us all.

I hope they finish up the console soon so we can either leave our icn on auto pilot and they invest for us or we decide which projects we go for.

From what I understand there will be no dividends.

There is no such thing as "leaving our ICN on auto pilot" anymore, as to realize any profit you need to sell your ICN.  (over time as total supply decreases, even as you sell ICN your % of overall ICN could remain constant.  I get this principle, but it still relies on me putting ICN on an exchange and selling it)

Also, from this line - Golem investment proceeds were already realized and measure 1000 ETH - I infer that they closed out their Golem position, presumably before Golem started spiking.  (they invested 5000 ETH initially)

[kn7777777]

Does anyone knows in which new projects planned to invest ICONOMI Team?

[MoveCrypto]

So i've been away for a while now.

If you have funds on the ICO site what is best to do now??

Is there a working investment console ready and functioning so that I can move my icn there and benefit from their ico investments made on my behalf yet or still best to leave it on the ico site?

What about the investments icn already made like golem etc? did you have to have the icn in your wallets to benefit from these gains or were the calculated and added to the ico funds already there?

we are yet to hear from the team about their ico investments after golem, santiment. It's been almost two months since their last blog post about their santiment investment. I am not sure whether they haven't invested in any of the recent icos such as wetrust, cosmos, matchpool etc. or they invested but yet to publish the news about their investments. Either way, the communication has to be better.

They should be a dashboard on ICN homepage indicating the Net Asset Value (NAV) of all holdings.

This is quite ridiculous. So they have our funds and we have no idea what is being bought sold nothing?

Did they claim on byteball with the ico funds I hope so since that would be a big chunk of free returns for us all.

Is this correct. I was under the impression this would all be 100% transparent?

Anyway for now when will we get on polo? since I don't want to leave my coins on the ico site for too much longer if possible.

they announce investments in ICOs after the ICO has finished. You can read about them in the official medium page. You will find info about byteball as well

Okay that's fair enough. So all those that invested in the ICO are benefitting from the drastic rise from golem ?

I mean so far there is no site or any way to decide what you use your icn to invest in so I guess they are just doing it all on our behalf and we will eventually get all the dividends shared out between us all.

I hope they finish up the console soon so we can either leave our icn on auto pilot and they invest for us or we decide which projects we go for.

From what I understand there will be no dividends.

There is no such thing as "leaving our ICN on auto pilot" anymore, as to realize any profit you need to sell your ICN.  (over time as total supply decreases, even as you sell ICN your % of overall ICN could remain constant.  I get this principle, but it still relies on me putting ICN on an exchange and selling it)

Also, from this line - Golem investment proceeds were already realized and measure 1000 ETH - I infer that they closed out their Golem position, presumably before Golem started spiking.  (they invested 5000 ETH initially)

If you had 100k ICN, then you would be entitled to 1 ETH from this Q1 1000 ETH distribution.

That means you would have to buy 1/90 of 1 ETH and sell a corresponding amount of ICN every day if you want to realize your profit.

Which means for Q1, you would have to transfer maybe about 120 ICN to exchange and slowly sell it off, less than 1% of your holdings.  Not too bad.

Golem ico price was 0.001 ETH/GNT.  They allegedly sold about 1/3 for 6000 ETH, or about 0.0036 ETH/GNT

Golem price is currently 0.0016 ETH/GNT.  Seems like that trade was well executed.  We can verify it when we see the cryptographic proof of reserves for ICNP and ICNX.

[FUTURECRYPTO]

[/quote]

From what I understand there will be no dividends.

There is no such thing as "leaving our ICN on auto pilot" anymore, as to realize any profit you need to sell your ICN.  (over time as total supply decreases, even as you sell ICN your % of overall ICN could remain constant.  I get this principle, but it still relies on me putting ICN on an exchange and selling it)

Also, from this line - Golem investment proceeds were already realized and measure 1000 ETH - I infer that they closed out their Golem position, presumably before Golem started spiking.  (they invested 5000 ETH initially)


[/quote]

If they invested 5000 ETH then how come the profit is only 1000 ETH? Shouldn't it be 20000 ETH. Because golem is almost 5X from ICO. Am I missing anything?

[SEOcrypto]

They invested 5000 ETH when ETH = ~$10 USD

I'm not sure if they closed the entire position or not.  The statement doesn't clarify that.  Maybe I'm wrong - somebody care to elaborate?

[mummybtc]

I want to ask if the team will also be burning their own ICN tokens, because if they keep buying and buying tokens on the exchange this is going to lead to centralization of the tokens on the hands of developers leaving investors nothing to actually hold on to, what they promised was dividends before the ICO and now change of tone that they wont be paying dividends again

[SEOcrypto]

I want to ask if the team will also be burning their own ICN tokens, because if they keep buying and buying tokens on the exchange this is going to lead to centralization of the tokens on the hands of developers leaving investors nothing to actually hold on to, what they promised was dividends before the ICO and now change of tone that they wont be paying dividends again

It's a buy and burn.  Overall supply is reduced.

[Daparski]

They invested 5000 ETH when ETH = ~$10 USD

I'm not sure if they closed the entire position or not.  The statement doesn't clarify that.  Maybe I'm wrong - somebody care to elaborate?

Iconomi sold 1/3 of their Golem tokens for ROI+ 1000 eth profit.

[Daparski]

I want to ask if the team will also be burning their own ICN tokens, because if they keep buying and buying tokens on the exchange this is going to lead to centralization of the tokens on the hands of developers leaving investors nothing to actually hold on to, what they promised was dividends before the ICO and now change of tone that they wont be paying dividends again

How a buy/burn profit distribution is going to lead to centralization of the tokens they have?
Their tokens will be released end of this month, but not all at once. They are vested over 24 months, meaning every month they will get 1/24 of their share.

Regardless of that, I don't understand how it is related to their tokens specifically. The total supply will be reduced, it's not that certain tokens will have bigger weight.

[MoveCrypto]

They invested 5000 ETH when ETH = ~$10 USD

I'm not sure if they closed the entire position or not.  The statement doesn't clarify that.  Maybe I'm wrong - somebody care to elaborate?

Iconomi sold 1/3 of their Golem tokens for ROI+ 1000 eth profit.

Golem ico price was 0.001 ETH/GNT and they put 5000 ETH in (ETH was about $10.25 at time of Golem ico)
Sold 1/3 for 6000 ETH at the peak ETH price:
5M GNT × (1/3) = 1.67M GNT

6000 ETH ÷ 1.67M GNT = 0.0036 ETH/GNT

Current price of GNT:
0.00161 ETH/GNT

Of course, we wait for financial report and cryptographic proof of reserves to verify these moves.

[Muro]

There is nothing clear about the gains of Iconomi, quite dark and gives me the feeling that the delay are benefits for the team. They have a lot of money to invest and the numbers I see are crumbs, even me or anyone with a little experience could make better profits, I am not convinced ...

[MoveCrypto]

There is nothing clear about the gains of Iconomi, quite dark and gives me the feeling that the delay are benefits for the team. They have a lot of money to invest and the numbers I see are crumbs, even me or anyone with a little experience could make better profits, I am not convinced ...

They are burning about $50k worth of the ICN supply in Q1.

The market leader in buyback & burn, as far as I know, is BitCrystals with $183k worth of the supply burnt (USD value taken at the time of each burn)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=957797.msg18109534#msg18109534

BCAP will also join the buyback & burn competition soon.

[Mendeleev]

I want to ask if the team will also be burning their own ICN tokens, because if they keep buying and buying tokens on the exchange this is going to lead to centralization of the tokens on the hands of developers leaving investors nothing to actually hold on to, what they promised was dividends before the ICO and now change of tone that they wont be paying dividends again

It's a buy and burn.  Overall supply is reduced.

He means that, overall, the 13 million they hold will become a larger percentage of the total supply. For example, 13 million out of 70 million is worth more than 13 million out of 100 million.

The question is whether they'll burn their own tokens. The answer would be... they won't just burn them for no reason. The rule is that they get burned after being bought back by Iconomi.

So they would burn the tokens that they, themselves, buy back (from the profits). If they're selling tokens, some of those tokens could also end up in the hands of other buyers - depending whose buy order they fall into.

So in theory, yes it could become more centralised if they never sold a single token. But if you look at it that way, 13 million is already a massive piece of the pie anyway. Each individual team member will use their part of the 13 million as they please. And, as Daparski pointed out, they don't get the whole 13 million all at once.

You are free to never sell your own too, so any X ICN they hold won't be worth any more than any X amount you hold. If that makes sense. In that sense, it's fair, as it's up to you what you do with your ICN, and it's up to them what they do with theirs.

There's nothing wrong with the way this is set up, but you do have to trust that it won't somehow be used to their advantage when they want to sell some of their own ICN - since they effectively hold all the cards. They'd be like whales on the market, with the power to maximise their own return.

There's still a lot that needs to be explained surrounding all of this. E.g. whether or not ICN still represents ownership will have an effect on how much they are likely to sell off.

Perhaps an AMA is the best method for clearing up some of these finer points. But I'm sure my old pals MoveCrypto or Daparski will have some wisdom to impart  

[Muro]

With these numbers of profits, by the distribution of their currencies, plus the salaries, plus their investments ... The logic is that they care for their iversores as gold that can make them very rich and be very grateful with humility, work and dedication.

[MalReynolds]

NK?  Seriously?  WTF?

I grow increasingly weary of the shell game being played by ICONOMI.  It is killing me that nobody is asking - OR ESPECIALLY ANSWERING - the right questions here.

The goal of ICONOMI is to earn a ROI for ICN holders who funded them in the ICO.  To generate this ROI, ICONOMI is running three projects - DAMP, ICNX and ICNP.  

Now what do each of these three projects contribute to the ROI of ICN holders?  DAMP = fees.  ICNX = percentage increases.  ICNP = multiples.

If you could only have one project contributing to the ROI of your ICN, which would you choose - the project returning fees on your investment, the project returning percentage increases on your investment, or the project returning multiples on your investment?

When ICONOMI first came out of the ICO, it had resources in five currencies:  BTC, ETH, LSK, EUR and USD.  The total amount of resources raised from the ICO was around 17,000 BTC. The deal was that 10,000 BTC would go to fund ICONOMI development and the rest would be put into ICNP.

The original ICNP resources at the end of ICO were around 7000 BTC equivalent  worth 605.89 USD each.  This totaled roughly $4.25 million.

Key questions -  Has the money allocated to ICNP been segregated into seperate accounts from the original 10K BTC of ICONOMI operating expenses?  How much of what currency was set aside to go into ICNP?   What are the account numbers for the BTC, ETH and LSK that have been allocated to ICNP?

What percent of the total ICNP fund has been spent purchasing other cryptocurrencies and what percent of it remains unused so far?

What are the new currencies that ICNP has taken a stake in - dates of purchase, cost per coin at time of purchase, and amounts puchased?

Since the ICO, BTC has appreciated by a factor of 1.97, ETH has appreciated by a factor of 3.68 and LSK has appreciated by a factor of 1.20.    

What is the appreciated value of the unused ICNP funds?

Waiting for a published quarterly report with all this info is so old economy.

Where can I find a continuously updated dashboard with this basic ICNP information?  

And since I know the answer to the question above, here's another:

When will a continuously updated dashboard with this basic ICNP information go online?

I have cross-posted these questions directly to Slack and Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/ICONOMI/comments/65ba12/questions_on_icnp/

Comment posted by snkns at Reddit , cross-posted here for your reading pleasure:

I can answer most of these <Mal Quesions>!

Has the money allocated to ICNP been segregated into separate accounts?

No, it has not. Here are the addresses where the funds are held:

LSK https://explorer.lisk.io/address/6300322192409448238L
ETH https://etherscan.io/address/0x154Af3E01eC56Bc55fD585622E33E3dfb8a248d8
BTC https://blockchain.info/address/3KbWWjumBGLBUWYCeidydxe1uET9QyWoEg

How much of what currency was set aside to go into ICNP?

Rounded because who cares about cent or fractions of LSK:

BTC 2,987
ETH 86,220
LSK 1,729,539
USD $53,433
EUR €1,080,518

<Note by Mal : See https://medium.com/iconominet/iconomi-acquires-9-766-of-byteball-initial-distribution-free-of-charge-cd9c4a5d49ac .>

But I guess "earmarked" would be a better description than actually "set aside." (Professionally, I would be in HUGE trouble if I failed to segregate client or fund assets from my personal or operating accounts. This is really basic but Iconomi doesn't seem to care).

What percent of the total ICNP fund has been spent purchasing other cryptocurrencies and what percent of it remains unused so far?

Zero percent has been spent on purchasing cryptocurrencies. ICNP is a venture capital fund that will invest in ICO's and other early stage investment opportunities. But you knew that.

<Yeah, to me "participating in ICO" = "purchasing cryptocurrencies", but that is sloppy wording on my part.  I applaud your precision with words.>

Less than 5% of available funds have been invested.

The investments that have been made are:
ETH 5000 in Golem on Nov 10, 2016
ETH 2000 in Santiment on Feb 13, 2017
BTC 0.0015 as a registration transaction with Byteball (have received bytes in the first 4 distribution rounds, beginning Dec 27, 2016).

Iconomi reports current ICNP ownership of Byteball is 4,827 GBYTE, which is substantially lower than is should be based on the percentage split established by the first distribution. This number also fails to take into account Iconomi (but not ICNP) expenditure of BTC prior to the 4th Byteball distribution which just occurred on April 11.

(I could go into a lot more detail on this, but suffice it to say, ICNP may be getting stiffed by Iconomi on its fair GBYTE allocation).

What is the appreciated value of the unused ICNP funds?

Iconomi currently provides a total value for the fund, which has some highly suspect math involved. ICNP is divided into 1m tokens, and currently has a token value of a little over $10.30. That means the fund itself is supposedly currently worth $10.3 million.

<So accepting ICONOMI's math (for now), the ICONOMI.Performance fund asset has grown from 4.25M to $10.3M in about six months, mostly due to ICO funds appreciation.  That's 10.30/4.25 = 2.43X multiplier in six months, and is fully owned by ICN holders.  At a 1:100 ratio, each ICN has a fundamentals value of 0.10 USD and MOST OF THE ICONOMI.Performance FUNDS HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN USED YET.  ICONOMI.Performance CURRENTLY HAS SUPERIOR CAPITALIZATION THAN BLOCKCHAIN.CAPITAL IS RAISING IN ITS ICO, WITH BETTER TERMS FOR ICN HOLDERS.  SCREW DAMP FEES (but I'll take 'em!).  SCREW ICNX PERCENTAGES (but I'll take 'em!).  ***MULTIPLES LIKE THESE*** ARE WHY I AM HODLING.>  

Where can I find a continuously updated dashboard with this basic ICNP information?

The beta platform has what purports to be this info. The share price is continuously updated, but aspects of it are clearly incorrect (the "highly suspect math"). I'll provide a current screenshot below, but notice a few obvious inaccuracies:

First:
Iconomi reported initial ETH in ICNP was 86,220
Iconomi claims it has invested 7000 ETH in Golem and Santiment cumulatively
Yet you can see in the screenshot below, they still claim all 86,220 ETH as "uninvested".

Second:
Iconomi claims it recouped its initial 5000 ETH investment (plus profit) in Golem by selling 1/3 of its GNT at the first peak
For some bizarre reason the dashboard below does not reflect this at all, and does not give a current GNT balance.
To figure out what the heck is going on here you'd have to reverse-engineer the math on the share price, and I don't have the time or will to do that right now

Third:
The GBYTE issue I noted earlier. Total GBYTE in ICNP should be in the low 6000's by now. It's possible though that their current number just hasn't been been updated to reflect the 3rd and 4th distribution rounds.

ICNP Chart/Facts:
imgur.com/pcYezH5

Am a bit confused though Mal. By my observations, you own at least 1.5% of Iconomi, and I could have sworn you'd indicated you had beta access.

<Nope, as a US citizen, I am ineligible for beta - or even final release - platform access to this data.  THAT'S WHY THIS DATA NEEDS TO BE ON A WEBPAGE DASHBOARD AS WELL AS THE PLATFORM.  This is all news to me...thanks for sharing!>

*****************************************************************************************


What I'm gonna try to do now:

1. Go over all of this with Jani and try to agree on final numbers (with no "highly suspect math") that should be in the 1Q report
2. Try and get the ICONOMI.Performance funds separated into their own accounts before the accountability of them gets even more confusing.

[Mendeleev]

Good stuff, Mal & Snkns.

You too, MoveCrypto.

Uncle Mendeleev is overjoyed by your efforts.

I am tumescent.

[winterrose]

I want to ask if the team will also be burning their own ICN tokens, because if they keep buying and buying tokens on the exchange this is going to lead to centralization of the tokens on the hands of developers leaving investors nothing to actually hold on to, what they promised was dividends before the ICO and now change of tone that they wont be paying dividends again

How a buy/burn profit distribution is going to lead to centralization of the tokens they have?
Their tokens will be released end of this month, but not all at once. They are vested over 24 months, meaning every month they will get 1/24 of their share.

Regardless of that, I don't understand how it is related to their tokens specifically. The total supply will be reduced, it's not that certain tokens will have bigger weight.

Ha-ha
Now the team Iconomi, will be going to buy their 13, 000, 000 tokens. That is, they will do the redemption of the tokens at themselves. After all, there has never been transparency.

[xcajun21]

So i've been away for a while now.

If you have funds on the ICO site what is best to do now??

Is there a working investment console ready and functioning so that I can move my icn there and benefit from their ico investments made on my behalf yet or still best to leave it on the ico site?

What about the investments icn already made like golem etc? did you have to have the icn in your wallets to benefit from these gains or were the calculated and added to the ico funds already there?

Investment in golem at what time? I remember they announced investing in golem when it was at around 2k, but the price did not bump as much as it did a while after getting on poloniex. Right now is maintaining a steady course downwards I suppose. Where does Icn jump in, if their ico is not riding the wave? but I assume they did not buy golem coins itself? That 5k eth though.