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Author Topic: ICONOMI - Live for today. Invest for tomorrow.  (Read 559498 times)
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MalReynolds
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April 14, 2017, 09:14:31 PM
Last edit: April 14, 2017, 09:30:15 PM by MalReynolds
 #3761

NK?  Seriously?  WTF?

I grow increasingly weary of the shell game being played by ICONOMI.  It is killing me that nobody is asking - OR ESPECIALLY ANSWERING - the right questions here.

The goal of ICONOMI is to earn a ROI for ICN holders who funded them in the ICO.  To generate this ROI, ICONOMI is running three projects - DAMP, ICNX and ICNP.  

Now what do each of these three projects contribute to the ROI of ICN holders?  DAMP = fees.  ICNX = percentage increases.  ICNP = multiples.

If you could only have one project contributing to the ROI of your ICN, which would you choose - the project returning fees on your investment, the project returning percentage increases on your investment, or the project returning multiples on your investment?

When ICONOMI first came out of the ICO, it had resources in five currencies:  BTC, ETH, LSK, EUR and USD.  The total amount of resources raised from the ICO was around 17,000 BTC. The deal was that 10,000 BTC would go to fund ICONOMI development and the rest would be put into ICNP.

The original ICNP resources at the end of ICO were around 7000 BTC equivalent  worth 605.89 USD each.  This totaled roughly $4.25 million.

Key questions -  Has the money allocated to ICNP been segregated into seperate accounts from the original 10K BTC of ICONOMI operating expenses?  How much of what currency was set aside to go into ICNP?   What are the account numbers for the BTC, ETH and LSK that have been allocated to ICNP?

What percent of the total ICNP fund has been spent purchasing other cryptocurrencies and what percent of it remains unused so far?

What are the new currencies that ICNP has taken a stake in - dates of purchase, cost per coin at time of purchase, and amounts puchased?

Since the ICO, BTC has appreciated by a factor of 1.97, ETH has appreciated by a factor of 3.68 and LSK has appreciated by a factor of 1.20.    

What is the appreciated value of the unused ICNP funds?

Waiting for a published quarterly report with all this info is so old economy.

Where can I find a continuously updated dashboard with this basic ICNP information?  

And since I know the answer to the question above, here's another:

When will a continuously updated dashboard with this basic ICNP information go online?

I have cross-posted these questions directly to Slack and Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/ICONOMI/comments/65ba12/questions_on_icnp/

Comment posted by snkns at Reddit , cross-posted here for your reading pleasure:

I can answer most of these <Mal Quesions>!

Has the money allocated to ICNP been segregated into separate accounts?

No, it has not. Here are the addresses where the funds are held:

LSK https://explorer.lisk.io/address/6300322192409448238L
ETH https://etherscan.io/address/0x154Af3E01eC56Bc55fD585622E33E3dfb8a248d8
BTC https://blockchain.info/address/3KbWWjumBGLBUWYCeidydxe1uET9QyWoEg

How much of what currency was set aside to go into ICNP?

Rounded because who cares about cent or fractions of LSK:

BTC 2,987
ETH 86,220
LSK 1,729,539
USD $53,433
EUR €1,080,518

<Note by Mal : See https://medium.com/iconominet/iconomi-acquires-9-766-of-byteball-initial-distribution-free-of-charge-cd9c4a5d49ac .>

But I guess "earmarked" would be a better description than actually "set aside." (Professionally, I would be in HUGE trouble if I failed to segregate client or fund assets from my personal or operating accounts. This is really basic but Iconomi doesn't seem to care).

What percent of the total ICNP fund has been spent purchasing other cryptocurrencies and what percent of it remains unused so far?

Zero percent has been spent on purchasing cryptocurrencies. ICNP is a venture capital fund that will invest in ICO's and other early stage investment opportunities. But you knew that.

<Yeah, to me "participating in ICO" = "purchasing cryptocurrencies", but that is sloppy wording on my part.  I applaud your precision with words.>

Less than 5% of available funds have been invested.

The investments that have been made are:
ETH 5000 in Golem on Nov 10, 2016
ETH 2000 in Santiment on Feb 13, 2017
BTC 0.0015 as a registration transaction with Byteball (have received bytes in the first 4 distribution rounds, beginning Dec 27, 2016).

Iconomi reports current ICNP ownership of Byteball is 4,827 GBYTE, which is substantially lower than is should be based on the percentage split established by the first distribution. This number also fails to take into account Iconomi (but not ICNP) expenditure of BTC prior to the 4th Byteball distribution which just occurred on April 11.

(I could go into a lot more detail on this, but suffice it to say, ICNP may be getting stiffed by Iconomi on its fair GBYTE allocation).

What is the appreciated value of the unused ICNP funds?

Iconomi currently provides a total value for the fund, which has some highly suspect math involved. ICNP is divided into 1m tokens, and currently has a token value of a little over $10.30. That means the fund itself is supposedly currently worth $10.3 million.

<So accepting ICONOMI's math (for now), the ICONOMI.Performance fund asset has grown from 4.25M to $10.3M in about six months, mostly due to ICO funds appreciation.  That's 10.30/4.25 = 2.43X multiplier in six months, and is fully owned by ICN holders.  At a 1:100 ratio, each ICN has a fundamentals value of 0.10 USD and MOST OF THE ICONOMI.Performance FUNDS HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN USED YET.  ICONOMI.Performance CURRENTLY HAS SUPERIOR CAPITALIZATION THAN BLOCKCHAIN.CAPITAL IS RAISING IN ITS ICO, WITH BETTER TERMS FOR ICN HOLDERS.  SCREW DAMP FEES (but I'll take 'em!).  SCREW ICNX PERCENTAGES (but I'll take 'em!).  ***MULTIPLES LIKE THESE*** ARE WHY I AM HODLING.>  

Where can I find a continuously updated dashboard with this basic ICNP information?

The beta platform has what purports to be this info. The share price is continuously updated, but aspects of it are clearly incorrect (the "highly suspect math"). I'll provide a current screenshot below, but notice a few obvious inaccuracies:

First:
Iconomi reported initial ETH in ICNP was 86,220
Iconomi claims it has invested 7000 ETH in Golem and Santiment cumulatively
Yet you can see in the screenshot below, they still claim all 86,220 ETH as "uninvested".

Second:
Iconomi claims it recouped its initial 5000 ETH investment (plus profit) in Golem by selling 1/3 of its GNT at the first peak
For some bizarre reason the dashboard below does not reflect this at all, and does not give a current GNT balance.
To figure out what the heck is going on here you'd have to reverse-engineer the math on the share price, and I don't have the time or will to do that right now

Third:
The GBYTE issue I noted earlier. Total GBYTE in ICNP should be in the low 6000's by now. It's possible though that their current number just hasn't been been updated to reflect the 3rd and 4th distribution rounds.

ICNP Chart/Facts:
imgur.com/pcYezH5

Am a bit confused though Mal. By my observations, you own at least 1.5% of Iconomi, and I could have sworn you'd indicated you had beta access.

<Nope, as a US citizen, I am ineligible for beta - or even final release - platform access to this data.  THAT'S WHY THIS DATA NEEDS TO BE ON A WEBPAGE DASHBOARD AS WELL AS THE PLATFORM.  This is all news to me...thanks for sharing!>

*****************************************************************************************


What I'm gonna try to do now:

1. Go over all of this with Jani and try to agree on final numbers (with no "highly suspect math") that should be in the 1Q report
2. Try and get the ICONOMI.Performance funds separated into their own accounts before the accountability of them gets even more confusing.


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April 14, 2017, 10:05:26 PM
 #3762

Good stuff, Mal & Snkns.

You too, MoveCrypto.

Uncle Mendeleev is overjoyed by your efforts.

I am tumescent.
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April 14, 2017, 10:50:50 PM
 #3763

I want to ask if the team will also be burning their own ICN tokens, because if they keep buying and buying tokens on the exchange this is going to lead to centralization of the tokens on the hands of developers leaving investors nothing to actually hold on to, what they promised was dividends before the ICO and now change of tone that they wont be paying dividends again

How a buy/burn profit distribution is going to lead to centralization of the tokens they have?
Their tokens will be released end of this month, but not all at once. They are vested over 24 months, meaning every month they will get 1/24 of their share.

Regardless of that, I don't understand how it is related to their tokens specifically. The total supply will be reduced, it's not that certain tokens will have bigger weight.
Ha-ha Grin
Now the team Iconomi, will be going to buy their 13, 000, 000 tokens. That is, they will do the redemption of the tokens at themselves. After all, there has never been transparency.
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April 14, 2017, 10:52:02 PM
 #3764

So i've been away for a while now.

If you have funds on the ICO site what is best to do now??

Is there a working investment console ready and functioning so that I can move my icn there and benefit from their ico investments made on my behalf yet or still best to leave it on the ico site?

What about the investments icn already made like golem etc? did you have to have the icn in your wallets to benefit from these gains or were the calculated and added to the ico funds already there?

Investment in golem at what time? I remember they announced investing in golem when it was at around 2k, but the price did not bump as much as it did a while after getting on poloniex. Right now is maintaining a steady course downwards I suppose. Where does Icn jump in, if their ico is not riding the wave? but I assume they did not buy golem coins itself? That 5k eth though. 
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April 14, 2017, 10:55:58 PM
 #3765

So i've been away for a while now.

If you have funds on the ICO site what is best to do now??

Is there a working investment console ready and functioning so that I can move my icn there and benefit from their ico investments made on my behalf yet or still best to leave it on the ico site?

What about the investments icn already made like golem etc? did you have to have the icn in your wallets to benefit from these gains or were the calculated and added to the ico funds already there?

Investment in golem at what time? I remember they announced investing in golem when it was at around 2k, but the price did not bump as much as it did a while after getting on poloniex. Right now is maintaining a steady course downwards I suppose. Where does Icn jump in, if their ico is not riding the wave? but I assume they did not buy golem coins itself?

The Iconomi team sold Golem tokens? or they are still holding ?
I didnt understand how the investments works..

Santiments,Golem and byteballs
Will we get some dividents from those assets Huh




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April 14, 2017, 11:47:20 PM
 #3766


NK?  Seriously?  WTF?

I grow increasingly weary of the shell game being played by ICONOMI.  It is killing me that nobody is asking - OR ESPECIALLY ANSWERING - the right questions here.

The goal of ICONOMI is to earn a ROI for ICN holders who funded them in the ICO.  To generate this ROI, ICONOMI is running three projects - DAMP, ICNX and ICNP.  


Those goddamn Russians, have no idea how to run a project like you would in
the first world, so even if they are indeed working it appears that they're a scam.

I look forward to the Q1 financial report from Supreme Leader Jani

MoveCrypto for Komodo Notary
https://komodoplatform.com/
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April 15, 2017, 12:21:58 AM
 #3767


NK?  Seriously?  WTF?

I grow increasingly weary of the shell game being played by ICONOMI.  It is killing me that nobody is asking - OR ESPECIALLY ANSWERING - the right questions here.

The goal of ICONOMI is to earn a ROI for ICN holders who funded them in the ICO.  To generate this ROI, ICONOMI is running three projects - DAMP, ICNX and ICNP.  


Those goddamn Russians, have no idea how to run a project like you would in
the first world, so even if they are indeed working it appears that they're a scam.

Where you saw Russians?Huh? There is ZERO Russians in their team! Please educate yourself before making such rasist claims.


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April 15, 2017, 02:12:06 AM
 #3768

So if the ICNP appreciated in value from 4 million to 10.3 million, does that count as realized profit once they are put into ICOs? If that's the case, profit is currently $6.3 million once realized, and 20% of that is $1.26 million. So just from the ICNP, we have generated $1.26 million in ICN buy backs, and they haven't even invested 95% of funds yet. This thing is going to be massive.

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April 15, 2017, 02:31:36 AM
 #3769

So if the ICNP appreciated in value from 4 million to 10.3 million, does that count as realized profit once they are put into ICOs? If that's the case, profit is currently $6.3 million once realized, and 20% of that is $1.26 million. So just from the ICNP, we have generated $1.26 million in ICN buy backs, and they haven't even invested 95% of funds yet. This thing is going to be massive.

Yeah, I am slack-jawed in amazement myself about this too.  How many ICONOMI people are coding DAMP / ICNX ?  How many people are running ICONOMI.Performance?  Which project is the ICONOMI cash cow here???  WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR AFTER A HALF YEAR?

How ICN remains under $1 is a mystery to me, even if it is not on Polo.


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April 15, 2017, 05:53:47 AM
 #3770



If you are so pro player, how did not realise yourself is kind of difficult to give dividends, without exchanger co-operation.
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April 15, 2017, 06:41:25 AM
 #3771

I thought I remembered one of the devs writing a while back that there was a major staking update coming soon, but now I can’t find the post. I  don’t see any mention of this on the website. Anyone know?
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April 15, 2017, 07:20:40 AM
 #3772

So if the ICNP appreciated in value from 4 million to 10.3 million, does that count as realized profit once they are put into ICOs? If that's the case, profit is currently $6.3 million once realized, and 20% of that is $1.26 million. So just from the ICNP, we have generated $1.26 million in ICN buy backs, and they haven't even invested 95% of funds yet. This thing is going to be massive.

Yeah, I am slack-jawed in amazement myself about this too.  How many ICONOMI people are coding DAMP / ICNX ?  How many people are running ICONOMI.Performance?  Which project is the ICONOMI cash cow here???  WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR AFTER A HALF YEAR?

How ICN remains under $1 is a mystery to me, even if it is not on Polo.




Thank you MAL, this needs greatly to be publicized, as there are investors in ICN.

we need light.
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April 15, 2017, 07:23:33 AM
 #3773

Wondering why ICONOMI dont invest in Stratisplatform.
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April 15, 2017, 07:28:30 AM
 #3774

Wondering why ICONOMI isnt communitcating
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April 15, 2017, 08:15:36 AM
 #3775

delete it and I will just re-paste. Can't censor truth


1.Because despite the fact that Jani and Tim think that they are building the best platform ever, their complete autism when it comes to communicating

with their investors is hurting their overall brand.

2. Their refusal to answer very legitimate questions about where they are incorporated for example is making them come across as shady Slovenian scammers.

3. No Poloniex.

4. Daparski constantly deleting stuff and acting like a thread nazi.

5. Cause ICONOMI revealed itself to be full of shit by going back on the main reason why people gave these scammers so much money: they had promised to pay ETH dividends.

5. Every ico investor who feels scammed because of buybacks can sell their icn at 200% profit. I don't think this is a scam lol  Smiley

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April 15, 2017, 08:39:57 AM
 #3776

delete it and I will just re-paste. Can't censor truth


1.Because despite the fact that Jani and Tim think that they are building the best platform ever, their complete autism when it comes to communicating

with their investors is hurting their overall brand.

2. Their refusal to answer very legitimate questions about where they are incorporated for example is making them come across as shady Slovenian scammers.

3. No Poloniex.

4. Daparski constantly deleting stuff and acting like a thread nazi.

5. Cause ICONOMI revealed itself to be full of shit by going back on the main reason why people gave these scammers so much money: they had promised to pay ETH dividends.

5. Every ico investor who feels scammed because of buybacks can sell their icn at 200% profit. I don't think this is a scam lol  Smiley

Thats a weird way to calculate 200%... ~11-13 cents ICO price to ~42cent right now might be a little more than 200% - but not sure though Cheesy
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April 15, 2017, 09:00:28 AM
 #3777

Holy fuck, look at Stratis.
Damn, wish I had invested in that one instead, with 1/12 of Iconomi's budget and they have done 30x.
mother of fuck.
Very disappointed on ICN so far to tell you the truth, looks like a bust.
First the delays, then they fuck up with the dividends.
Dividends was their selling ppint, what kind of dumbos change their selling point.
How fucking stupid can you be, it's suicide in this business, unless they don't give a fuck anymore
since they made their money, and trying to screw us over.

They better man up to their promises and start buying back in bulk.
Push it to at least 20x. Useless fucking russian scumbags.
They are not Russian

for americans everything is russian if their native language is not english

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April 15, 2017, 09:01:54 AM
 #3778

delete it and I will just re-paste. Can't censor truth


1.Because despite the fact that Jani and Tim think that they are building the best platform ever, their complete autism when it comes to communicating

with their investors is hurting their overall brand.

2. Their refusal to answer very legitimate questions about where they are incorporated for example is making them come across as shady Slovenian scammers.

3. No Poloniex.

4. Daparski constantly deleting stuff and acting like a thread nazi.

5. Cause ICONOMI revealed itself to be full of shit by going back on the main reason why people gave these scammers so much money: they had promised to pay ETH dividends.

5. Every ico investor who feels scammed because of buybacks can sell their icn at 200% profit. I don't think this is a scam lol  Smiley

Thats a weird way to calculate 200%... ~11-13 cents ICO price to ~42cent right now might be a little more than 200% - but not sure though Cheesy

he means satoshi wise

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April 15, 2017, 09:21:29 AM
 #3779

delete it and I will just re-paste. Can't censor truth


1.Because despite the fact that Jani and Tim think that they are building the best platform ever, their complete autism when it comes to communicating

with their investors is hurting their overall brand.

2. Their refusal to answer very legitimate questions about where they are incorporated for example is making them come across as shady Slovenian scammers.

3. No Poloniex.

4. Daparski constantly deleting stuff and acting like a thread nazi.

5. Cause ICONOMI revealed itself to be full of shit by going back on the main reason why people gave these scammers so much money: they had promised to pay ETH dividends.

5. Every ico investor who feels scammed because of buybacks can sell their icn at 200% profit. I don't think this is a scam lol  Smiley

Thats a weird way to calculate 200%... ~11-13 cents ICO price to ~42cent right now might be a little more than 200% - but not sure though Cheesy

he means satoshi wise
I meant in dollars. (42-13)/13 = 223% profit

❘|❘ ICONOMI  Fund Management Platform
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April 15, 2017, 09:31:47 AM
 #3780

delete it and I will just re-paste. Can't censor truth


1.Because despite the fact that Jani and Tim think that they are building the best platform ever, their complete autism when it comes to communicating

with their investors is hurting their overall brand.

2. Their refusal to answer very legitimate questions about where they are incorporated for example is making them come across as shady Slovenian scammers.

3. No Poloniex.

4. Daparski constantly deleting stuff and acting like a thread nazi.

5. Cause ICONOMI revealed itself to be full of shit by going back on the main reason why people gave these scammers so much money: they had promised to pay ETH dividends.

Maybe consider googling  Cashila s.r.o. and some past work from Tim and Jani and you will have some answers.

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