MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[bitcoinmarketmaker]

Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

I respectfully disagree with the quote above, a BTC exchange MUST have both the option to buy BTC with fiat AND to sell BTC for fiat. If on one side there is an in-balance/delay, then it is not a proper exchange, and in the "real" financial world this would mean they would be out of business in not more than 3 days. And this is what I believe is going to happen with Mt.Gox (but I don't mean in 3 days). But I really hope I am wrong and this is not going to happen, but I am already OUT of Mt. Gox, impossible to do serious work with Mt.Gox as a partner.

But I do agree with the other part of the post of the same author, about cancelling Mt.Gox fiat withdrawals, buying BTC, holding them in an offline wallet or transferring them to another exchange for fiat withdrawal.

[acoindr]

Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

I respectfully disagree with the quote above, a BTC exchange MUST have both the option to buy BTC with fiat AND to sell BTC for fiat. If on one side there is an in-balance/delay, then it is not a proper exchange, and in the "real" financial world this would mean they would be out of business in not more than 3 days. And this is what I believe is going to happen with Mt.Gox (but I don't mean in 3 days). But I really hope I am wrong and this is not going to happen, but I am already OUT of Mt. Gox, impossible to do serious work with Mt.Gox as a partner.

But I do agree with the other part of the post of the same author, about cancelling Mt.Gox fiat withdrawals, buying BTC, holding them in an offline wallet or transferring them to another exchange for fiat withdrawal.

Yes, I considered editing that line out knowing someone would call me on it reasoning exactly as you did.

I left it in because Mt.Gox does still allow the exchange of BTC for fiat. That's not the part of the process that broke. Moving that fiat via certain channels is where the problem arose.

[flound1129]

Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

I respectfully disagree with the quote above, a BTC exchange MUST have both the option to buy BTC with fiat AND to sell BTC for fiat. If on one side there is an in-balance/delay, then it is not a proper exchange, and in the "real" financial world this would mean they would be out of business in not more than 3 days. And this is what I believe is going to happen with Mt.Gox (but I don't mean in 3 days). But I really hope I am wrong and this is not going to happen, but I am already OUT of Mt. Gox, impossible to do serious work with Mt.Gox as a partner.

But I do agree with the other part of the post of the same author, about cancelling Mt.Gox fiat withdrawals, buying BTC, holding them in an offline wallet or transferring them to another exchange for fiat withdrawal.

Yes, I considered editing that line out knowing someone would call me on it reasoning exactly as you did.

I left it in because Mt.Gox does still allow the exchange of BTC for fiat. That's not the part of the process that broke. Moving that fiat via certain channels is where the problem arose.

Or so they claim.  We'll find out the truth eventually.

[desired_username]

The sepa EUR withdraw seems to be working fine now. Got my last xfer within 3 working days.

[ibox]

I'm really among the people who think they are not trying to fraud but I don't understand WHY they don't take another bank! Or split the amount into several account and after send it from there.

I called the Polish bank and indeed they have a max limit of 120k€ per day (after I was a simple caller so I guess some negociations are possible at another level) but why don't they open 10 bank account in this case? They will be able to send around 1 milion per day no?
Or several bank account in several banks and even the time that someone deposit the money on the Polish bank if they move it to "toto bank" (it will take 1 day) they will be able after to face all the demands and to grow faster in Europe...
I don't get it...

[sturle]

Updated short summary of what we currently know about withdrawals.

Changes: SEPA > 30k EUR have very low priority.  It will usually be faster to split those in 30k chunks to get in the normal FIFO queue.  Users can now make one SEPA withdrawal per 10 days.  It used to be 20.  Normal withdrawals are processed in FIFO order, except for very small ones which get priority and are used to fill their daily quota.

• JPY domestic is next day
  • one extra delay recorded due to misspelling of Japanese name
  • one day extra recorded due to extraordinary volume (JPY withdrawal volume was > 1 million USD yesterday)
• EUR via SEPA is less than one week
  • maximum per user is one withdrawal per 10 days
  • smaller than 1000 EUR will get in a priority queue and used to fill the daily quota
  • larger than 1000 EUR, up to 30000 EUR are processed in FIFO order
  • withdrawals > 30000 EUR will be delayed for more than 10 days; split in chunks of 30k EUR for faster processing
• International withdrawals are very slow.
  • Only 10 standard international withdrawals are processed daily.
  • Queue is strictly FIFO, unclear if FIFO is per user or per withdrawal.
  • It is possible to make an express manual withdrawal via another payment provider for a fee.

[sturle]

I called the Polish bank and indeed they have a max limit of 120k€ per day (after I was a simple caller so I guess some negociations are possible at another level) but why don't they open 10 bank account in this case? They will be able to send around 1 milion per day no?

Call the bank again and ask if the 120k limit is per customer or per account.  I bet it is per customer.

Or several bank account in several banks and even the time that someone deposit the money on the Polish bank if they move it to "toto bank" (it will take 1 day) they will be able after to face all the demands and to grow faster in Europe...
I don't get it...

Call a few other banks and ask if they would like a large Bitcoin exchange for customer.  Tell them about the fraud problem as well, and the sad stories about the banking problems of other Bitcoin exchanges, in case they haven't heard them.  Perhaps Bitcoin24 could be a good example in Poland?

[ibox]

@sturle, you are really annoying...

I want to talk with real users of platforms. I didn't answer your last post because it's obvious that you can look good in front of some people but I nailed your argumentation in 2 posts just yesterday (hard when someone use the same logic no?).

Let me clarify something : your last argument was "Did you never try to defend something you never did yourself?"

>>End of the game, come back home
we are talking about money here so my answer is NO I don't defend something I don't know on a topic supposed to help people understanding how they use THEIR MONEY because the big difference between you and I is that I currently have money in this business.

So I let you in peace but don't bother me anymore with this, you are OR a MG sales man OR a naive guy thinking that just logic and figures can explain everything in this business...in both case you look and act like a troll.

(I don't even wanna know where you took your 10 days withdrawal limit neither your stupid "proofs" I already kicked your ass on it)

[sturle]

@sturle, you are really annoying...

I want to talk with real users of platforms. I didn't answer your last post because it's obvious that you can look good in front of some people but I nailed your argumentation in 2 posts just yesterday (hard when someone use the same logic no?).

Let me clarify something : your last argument was "Did you never try to defend something you never did yourself?"

>>End of the game, come back home
we are talking about money here so my answer is NO I don't defend something I don't know on a topic supposed to help people understanding how they use THEIR MONEY because the big difference between you and I is that I currently have money in this business.

? You should take a introductory course in elementary logic.

Do you think all historians who write about the black plague have tried it themselves?  Or that everyone who defend the right to abortion have tried an abortion themselves?  Or the opposite?

I try to collect facts, and to help people do smart decisions based on the facts.  Nothing else.  I also have a considerable amount invested in Bitcoin, and I run a small Bitcoin business myself.  And I do arbitrage between MtGox and other exchanges like most other people posting here.

So I let you in peace but don't bother me anymore with this, you are OR a MG sales man OR a naive guy thinking that just logic and figures can explain everything in this business...in both case you look and act like a troll.

(I don't even wanna know where you took your 10 days withdrawal limit neither your stupid "proofs" I already kicked your ass on it)

It would be impossible to give a formal proof of correctness.  (For the reasons why this is impossible, I suggest an introductory course in formal logic at any university.)  The information can however easily be proven wrong by giving one single counterexample.  I.e. an example which contradict the hypothesis.  As long as no counterexamples are found, and there are a lot of confirmations, I assume the information (hypothesis) to be correct, and you missed my ass by miles.  In case other people want to know about where I got the 10 days from: I let someone from MtGox support have a look at my previous version, and got some clarifications and updates.  The reduction from 20 to 10 days happened very recently.

I am just a normal customer of MtGox.  I never did any work for MtGox, nor did I ever receive any form of compensation from MtGox for providing facts here or elsewhere.

[Resetif]

Mtgox withdrew in JPY ?

[ibox]

@sturle, you are really annoying...

I want to talk with real users of platforms. I didn't answer your last post because it's obvious that you can look good in front of some people but I nailed your argumentation in 2 posts just yesterday (hard when someone use the same logic no?).

Let me clarify something : your last argument was "Did you never try to defend something you never did yourself?"

>>End of the game, come back home
we are talking about money here so my answer is NO I don't defend something I don't know on a topic supposed to help people understanding how they use THEIR MONEY because the big difference between you and I is that I currently have money in this business.

? You should take a introductory course in elementary logic.

Do you think all historians who write about the black plague have tried it themselves?  Or that everyone who defend the right to abortion have tried an abortion themselves?  Or the opposite?

I try to collect facts, and to help people do smart decisions based on the facts.  Nothing else.  I also have a considerable amount invested in Bitcoin, and I run a small Bitcoin business myself.  And I do arbitrage between MtGox and other exchanges like most other people posting here.

So I let you in peace but don't bother me anymore with this, you are OR a MG sales man OR a naive guy thinking that just logic and figures can explain everything in this business...in both case you look and act like a troll.

(I don't even wanna know where you took your 10 days withdrawal limit neither your stupid "proofs" I already kicked your ass on it)

It would be impossible to give a formal proof of correctness.  (For the reasons why this is impossible, I suggest an introductory course in formal logic at any university.)  The information can however easily be proven wrong by giving one single counterexample.  I.e. an example which contradict the hypothesis.  As long as no counterexamples are found, and there are a lot of confirmations, I assume the information (hypothesis) to be correct, and you missed my ass by miles.  In case other people want to know about where I got the 10 days from: I let someone from MtGox support have a look at my previous version, and got some clarifications and updates.  The reduction from 20 to 10 days happened very recently.

I am just a normal customer of MtGox.  I never did any work for MtGox, nor did I ever receive any form of compensation from MtGox for providing facts here or elsewhere.

Haha!!! That's it, let's let people decide what they want but I have to give you this : you are a loudy funny person!

[kneim]

It would be impossible to give a formal proof of correctness.  (For the reasons why this is impossible, I suggest an introductory course in formal logic at any university.)  The information can however easily be proven wrong by giving one single counterexample.  I.e. an example which contradict the hypothesis.  As long as no counterexamples are found, and there are a lot of confirmations, I assume the information (hypothesis) to be correct, and you missed my ass by miles.  In case other people want to know about where I got the 10 days from: I let someone from MtGox support have a look at my previous version, and got some clarifications and updates.  The reduction from 20 to 10 days happened very recently.

I am just a normal customer of MtGox.  I never did any work for MtGox, nor did I ever receive any form of compensation from MtGox for providing facts here or elsewhere.

Theorie and practise. Sooner or later all money reached my account. The duration was between 3 days and 4 weeks, and this can switch at all times. Difficult to prove anything.

[Serpens66]

In case other people want to know about where I got the 10 days from: I let someone from MtGox support have a look at my previous version, and got some clarifications and updates.  The reduction from 20 to 10 days happened very recently.

Hmm.. 20days would match to my experience, 10 days not.

[joesmoe2012]

Mtgox withdrew in JPY ?

Confirmed at one day processing time a few pages back in this thread.

[CompNsci]

But your last post...

Would you be kind engouh to explain me how can you defend that hard MtGox without having done any SEPA withdrawal before?

Yes, that is sort of incredible. But I guess the characteristics of the speaker don't logically have anything to do with the truth or falsity of their statements.

[CompNsci]

Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

Well that is the business they purport to be in. They should be transparent about the actual withdrawals delays and provide estimates based on the current queue.

A person who had traded with them before these problems and then sold BTC on Mt. Gox before these problems developed and are clearly stated on their website has a valid complaint against them. Based on all past experience one would expect that they would continue to withdraw in a reasonable timeframe, say, 2-3 business days. 8 weeks isn't even close to a "reasonable" timeframe.

[CompNsci]

I try to collect facts, and to help people do smart decisions based on the facts.  Nothing else.  I also have a considerable amount invested in Bitcoin, and I run a small Bitcoin business myself.  And I do arbitrage between MtGox and other exchanges like most other people posting here.

Yes, and that is a big service in the present circumstances. Of course, Mt. Gox should post estimates on their website and these facts to warn potential sellers. Thanks for gathering this information.

[acoindr]

... Based on all past experience one would expect that they would continue to withdraw in a reasonable timeframe, say, 2-3 business days. 8 weeks isn't even close to a "reasonable" timeframe.

What part of they don't control the entire transfer process don't people understand? Mt.Gox must work with other banks to transfer fiat. The old legacy banking system is lethargic, inefficient, cumbersome and over regulated. That's a reason Bitcoin is so valuable.

If you want to transfer bitcoins to/from Mt.Gox, something they can completely handle without middlemen, what is the timeframe? Nearly instant.

I suspect if you are willing to visit Japan and request fiat in person they can accommodate you in speedy fashion too. Apparently Japanese withdrawals are processed in a single day.

[Nagle]

Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

Mt. Gox doesn't have to offer the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash.

The problem is that they do offer that ability. Then they keep your money.

That's usually called "theft".

[Rampion]

Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

Mt. Gox doesn't have to offer the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash.

The problem is that they do offer that ability. Then they keep your money.

That's usually called "theft".

Not my money for the moment. How much did they steal from you, Nagle? I thought you were out and that Bitcoin was a ponzi scheme which endgame was approaching.

Did you bought back and now you trade BTC? Is the endgame finally approaching? Maybe the endgame will finally be the collapse of MtGox and the other exchanges due to regulatory pressure/illiquidity?

Anyhow: please report how much MtGox stole from you so we can start legal action.