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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 948738 times)
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sidhujag
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August 05, 2014, 04:43:23 AM
 #5941

Hi Georgem,

I agree with your posts but what I proposed wasnt really a full scale
block rewards change but more like a filter that gets applied when we have stagnant activity (less reciever entries).. so it merely attempts to add incentives to get the ball rolling. I know those graphics and fully agree on long term projections but we cant lift off without some incentives in place (minor tweaks) that will add what it was missing and turn it into a great alternative for currency.

Really if we apply some sort of formula and top out at 50k then in terms of being used globally the affect of the filter will tend towards 0 because it wont be even applied if there are alot of receiver entries and there is innovation happening all over the place. If we have tons of writers there is bound to be great material that will drive up ad revenue or bring awareness to devcoin.. likewise for developers. Musicians are the same if we have the right incentives in place for when things are at a standstill it may kickstart it to get going because as is it seems we are not progressing.

I propose a filter such that if there are less than x recievers it cause a tightening of supply to avoid abundance of supply that does not reflect the demand. When supply is too big and there is no reason to buy investors wont buy to support because they will fear the dumping and recievers arent growing.. that is
the worsed case scenario.

Once we pass the hurdle then technically the filter is not applied and we are back to normal supply schedule. So it simply reduce rewards when development is at a standstill.

Other coins apply rewards that affect the coin forever which shouldnt be thr case
since you Assume devcoin is used on a global scale which means enough reciever entries to saturate the rewards.

There is no other coin like devcoin thus you cannot apply that theory with this especially since its acting as a filter. You applied a cause and effect which doesnt correlate in this case either imo.
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The network tries to produce one block per 10 minutes. It does this by automatically adjusting how difficult it is to produce blocks.
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August 05, 2014, 01:19:24 PM
 #5942

I propose a filter such that if there are less than x recievers it cause a tightening of supply to avoid abundance of supply that does not reflect the demand.

Isn't this a temporary problem that will go away anyway once devcoin has more adoption?

So why fix a problem that only exists because of low participation, instead of working on just making more people participate?

That is like giving a wheelchair to a guy who broke his leg... that's just wrong.
You don't give wheelchairs to guys whose leg will heal eventually... you give wheelchairs to paraplegics (who have no chance of recovery).

Also: if you integrate this "wheelchair" into devcoin, aren't you in a way taking the bonus away from devoted people who still stay on the devcoin ship?
Shouldn't those people be rewarded more, since they are like the last men standing?

Isn't this a mechanism that helps attract more people since more devcoins can now be earned? This is a good feedback loop although nobody can guarantee it works when most people have an altcoin fatigue anyway...

Really all those tactics I see people want to apply (I see it with Quark, Mazacoin, etc...) it's like they want to put a baby into a wheelchair so that it can move around faster, instead of patiently wait a little longer so the baby learns to walk...  Cheesy

In the meantime: Devcoin too low priced for you? Well GRAB THEM!  Grin

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August 05, 2014, 03:12:32 PM
 #5943

I propose a filter such that if there are less than x recievers it cause a tightening of supply to avoid abundance of supply that does not reflect the demand.

Isn't this a temporary problem that will go away anyway once devcoin has more adoption?

So why fix a problem that only exists because of low participation, instead of working on just making more people participate?

That is like giving a wheelchair to a guy who broke his leg... that's just wrong.
You don't give wheelchairs to guys whose leg will heal eventually... you give wheelchairs to paraplegics (who have no chance of recovery).

Also: if you integrate this "wheelchair" into devcoin, aren't you in a way taking the bonus away from devoted people who still stay on the devcoin ship?
Shouldn't those people be rewarded more, since they are like the last men standing?

Isn't this a mechanism that helps attract more people since more devcoins can now be earned? This is a good feedback loop although nobody can guarantee it works when most people have an altcoin fatigue anyway...

Really all those tactics I see people want to apply (I see it with Quark, Mazacoin, etc...) it's like they want to put a baby into a wheelchair so that it can move around faster, instead of patiently wait a little longer so the baby learns to walk...  Cheesy

In the meantime: Devcoin too low priced for you? Well GRAB THEM!  Grin

Its not a patch its the way it should have been because they couldnt foresee it becoming an issue it wasnt done. Adoption is not taking hold look at last times it rose.. there were new people which is good but the feet kept getting kicked from under it as dumping continued and the equilibrium was met again where the neediest dumper finally gets outweighed by buyers.. but you see at these prices that people arent coming they are leaving... so to create incentive (buyers market) so that not only will recievers hold but investors will buy knowing there is a chance they can make money and supporting open src at the same time.
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August 05, 2014, 03:36:59 PM
 #5944

does dev have a personalized coin now?

ags ?

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sidhujag
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August 05, 2014, 06:15:59 PM
 #5945

Vote for block rewards change before next release http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1032.msg34586.html#msg34586
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August 05, 2014, 09:22:13 PM
 #5946

Hey all, I haven't been around here for a while so excuse me if this has been discussed but I was just taking a look at the Devtome traffic analytics and I noticed the huge increase in traffic that occurred in round 35.  You'll see in the rounds before round 35 the traffic was at roughly 200k pageviews, then it jumps to around 600k.  I'm just wondering, what caused this?  Where is all this new traffic coming from?

Here's the traffic analytics page:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_analytics

Thanks.



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August 05, 2014, 09:41:01 PM
 #5947

Hey all, I haven't been around here for a while so excuse me if this has been discussed but I was just taking a look at the Devtome traffic analytics and I noticed the huge increase in traffic that occurred in round 35.  You'll see in the rounds before round 35 the traffic was at roughly 200k pageviews, then it jumps to around 600k.  I'm just wondering, what caused this?  Where is all this new traffic coming from?

Here's the traffic analytics page:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_analytics

Thanks.



Maybe something to do with devcoinauction.com? I have been actively promoting it and maybe people end up going to devtome from it? Might be bots too only 8 second before they leave... and each session goes to 5 pages on average.
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August 05, 2014, 09:57:16 PM
 #5948

Vote for block rewards change before next release http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1032.msg34586.html#msg34586

Damn, am I the only one who voted no? I must start an anti-reward-change campaign...  Grin

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August 05, 2014, 10:02:40 PM
 #5949

Vote for block rewards change before next release http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1032.msg34586.html#msg34586

Damn, am I the only one who voted no? I must start an anti-reward-change campaign...  Grin

You can use the discussion thread to talk about the proposal too.

I also started a new thread about the voting system: http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1034.msg34589.html#msg34589

There is a proposal from me that would affect shares too.
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August 05, 2014, 11:39:02 PM
 #5950

Vote for block rewards change before next release http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1032.msg34586.html#msg34586

Damn, am I the only one who voted no? I must start an anti-reward-change campaign...  Grin

You can use the discussion thread to talk about the proposal too.

I also started a new thread about the voting system: http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1034.msg34589.html#msg34589

There is a proposal from me that would affect shares too.

Sidhujag, could you create a poll for transaction messaging and myriadcoin multiple algos?  I can make bounties to attract more devs, too.

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August 06, 2014, 01:22:18 AM
 #5951

Vote for block rewards change before next release http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1032.msg34586.html#msg34586

Damn, am I the only one who voted no? I must start an anti-reward-change campaign...  Grin

You can use the discussion thread to talk about the proposal too.

I also started a new thread about the voting system: http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1034.msg34589.html#msg34589

There is a proposal from me that would affect shares too.

Sidhujag, could you create a poll for transaction messaging and myriadcoin multiple algos?  I can make bounties to attract more devs, too.

tx messaging and myriadcoin?

THing with adding services to the blockchain would be we are moving away from the bitcoin protocol and any updates would mean harder and harder changes back to devcoin... so we really need to evaluate if we should do such a thing I can forsee in the future that only a few alt coins will be able to keep up to the bitcoin codebase and leverage true developer power while the altcoins die off due to lack to developer competence. By adding something like tx messaging you would need to re-integrate every single time and with every thin client perhaps that needs to connect, unless its scalable such that something like the android client doesnt need to know about it? I'm trying to keep it as close to btc as possible while adding reciever file stuff... but perhaps if the pro's outweigh the con's we can always do it.. just think long term. Whatever bitcoin implements it is easy to do so with devcoin.

For example someone on IRC asked me how to change the default base58 properties set in chainparams, and I didnt change ours because devcoin is totally address compatible with bitcoin they are the same, but any other coin that attempted to create a non conforming address with bitcoin (every alt besides devcoin) needs to know how to create bip32 priv/pub key pairs to enter in the base58 properties in order to properly integrate the 0.9.2 codebase... so since I never touched it I investigated and found it to be the whole openssl heartbleeed bip32 fix.. and some algorithm is externally applied to find this information... many people will not know how to calculate these things going forward and we were able to leverage bitcoin's tools and development to be able to integrate 0.9.2 rather painlessly. Also any thin client that integrates bip32 and such are also freebies for devcoin.. whereas other alt coins will lose the ability to "keep up" unless they have a bigger development community thats capable (not many).
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August 06, 2014, 01:50:51 AM
 #5952

What files do you need to change to change the algo?

I myself am a large holder of devcoin and the ability to mine with another algo would probably bring more network hashpower as well as more coin popularity.

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August 06, 2014, 02:57:06 AM
 #5953

Vote for block rewards change before next release http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1032.msg34586.html#msg34586

Damn, am I the only one who voted no? I must start an anti-reward-change campaign...  Grin

You can use the discussion thread to talk about the proposal too.

I also started a new thread about the voting system: http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1034.msg34589.html#msg34589

There is a proposal from me that would affect shares too.

Sidhujag, could you create a poll for transaction messaging and myriadcoin multiple algos?  I can make bounties to attract more devs, too.

tx messaging and myriadcoin?

THing with adding services to the blockchain would be we are moving away from the bitcoin protocol and any updates would mean harder and harder changes back to devcoin... so we really need to evaluate if we should do such a thing I can forsee in the future that only a few alt coins will be able to keep up to the bitcoin codebase and leverage true developer power while the altcoins die off due to lack to developer competence. By adding something like tx messaging you would need to re-integrate every single time and with every thin client perhaps that needs to connect, unless its scalable such that something like the android client doesnt need to know about it? I'm trying to keep it as close to btc as possible while adding reciever file stuff... but perhaps if the pro's outweigh the con's we can always do it.. just think long term. Whatever bitcoin implements it is easy to do so with devcoin.

For example someone on IRC asked me how to change the default base58 properties set in chainparams, and I didnt change ours because devcoin is totally address compatible with bitcoin they are the same, but any other coin that attempted to create a non conforming address with bitcoin (every alt besides devcoin) needs to know how to create bip32 priv/pub key pairs to enter in the base58 properties in order to properly integrate the 0.9.2 codebase... so since I never touched it I investigated and found it to be the whole openssl heartbleeed bip32 fix.. and some algorithm is externally applied to find this information... many people will not know how to calculate these things going forward and we were able to leverage bitcoin's tools and development to be able to integrate 0.9.2 rather painlessly. Also any thin client that integrates bip32 and such are also freebies for devcoin.. whereas other alt coins will lose the ability to "keep up" unless they have a bigger development community thats capable (not many).

^ this was me btw. and i agree with changing to devcoin to multi algorithm but not to add tx messaging. However i can also agree with sidhujag. It will take major effort to stay inline with the bitcoin codebase.

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August 06, 2014, 03:31:53 AM
 #5954

What files do you need to change to change the algo?

I myself am a large holder of devcoin and the ability to mine with another algo would probably bring more network hashpower as well as more coin popularity.

It depends which algo.. im not sure how much work it is. If its as simple as changing the getwork routines im all for it, but if it means changing the way blocks are stored on disk or memory then i disagree. The mining part is seperated pretty well now in the new base..

Remember that since the hash is so high it may not make economic sense to try to mine with another algo? How will you find a block when competing against asics? Not sure how multi algo works in this regard.

Also think about the fact that miners only get 10% of each block.. is it really a miners coin?  Maybr when value is realy high.. but the security is important and if the merge mined pools arent helping thrn we can investigate other algos to improve security.
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August 06, 2014, 03:37:30 AM
 #5955

What files do you need to change to change the algo?

I myself am a large holder of devcoin and the ability to mine with another algo would probably bring more network hashpower as well as more coin popularity.

It depends which algo.. im not sure how much work it is. If its as simple as changing the getwork routines im all for it, but if it means changing the way blocks are stored on disk or memory then i disagree. The mining part is seperated pretty well now in the new base..

Remember that since the hash is so high it may not make economic sense to try to mine with another algo? How will you find a block when competing against asics? Not sure how multi algo works in this regard.

Also think about the fact that miners only get 10% of each block.. is it really a miners coin?  Maybr when value is realy high.. but the security is important and if the merge mined pools arent helping thrn we can investigate other algos to improve security.

You'd essentially need a version scheme. E.G. SHA256 has a block version number of 2. and Scrypt has 3, etc etc.

Each Algorithm Would have its own difficulty and so that means theres no competition between asics.

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August 06, 2014, 03:46:57 AM
 #5956

What files do you need to change to change the algo?

I myself am a large holder of devcoin and the ability to mine with another algo would probably bring more network hashpower as well as more coin popularity.

It depends which algo.. im not sure how much work it is. If its as simple as changing the getwork routines im all for it, but if it means changing the way blocks are stored on disk or memory then i disagree. The mining part is seperated pretty well now in the new base..

Remember that since the hash is so high it may not make economic sense to try to mine with another algo? How will you find a block when competing against asics? Not sure how multi algo works in this regard.

Also think about the fact that miners only get 10% of each block.. is it really a miners coin?  Maybr when value is realy high.. but the security is important and if the merge mined pools arent helping thrn we can investigate other algos to improve security.

You'd essentially need a version scheme. E.G. SHA256 has a block version number of 2. and Scrypt has 3, etc etc.

Each Algorithm Would have its own difficulty and so that means theres no competition between asics.

Ok so there is conflict there between sha256 blocks vs merge mined blocks vs algo x blocks... all blocks need to be stored on disk via mutable/imutable data.. this was optimized when rsnel optmized i0coin merge mining memory usage... If you can add a version and check for it when reading/writing its pretty simple but I think it may be more complicated than that... probably have to rewrite sections to make it simple to extend or integrate with bitcoin all over again.. its quite a bit of work. Is it really worth it?
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August 06, 2014, 03:52:08 AM
 #5957

Yeah it might be a bit more work. And really i doubt it will impact DVC much. over @ MYR, we're all struggling in a way to get more dev's, users and popularity even though its premine/instamine free and we're all working hard towards being as legit and fair as possible

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August 06, 2014, 01:10:48 PM
 #5958

@ahmed
Looking at your github I see you forked myriadcoin from zetacoin, what was the basis behind that decision?

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August 07, 2014, 09:01:42 AM
Last edit: August 07, 2014, 09:21:40 AM by Hunterbunter
 #5959

Devcoins are not about value through scarcity. It is one of the few coins that aren't actually about the coin at all, and only use the cryptocurrency part as a tool to achieve something of greater value - proliferating open source and creative commons. I understand that people don't like seeing the current price, but there is a reason for it, and it's not a bad thing. Even at this price, people are still excited to release open source toys (http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,150.msg34312.html#msg34312), and writing on devtome is still going strong (63% of shares for round 37: http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com/).

The codebase needs to remain extremely conservative, and will leverage the effort of bitcoiners in that regard. As Sidhujag noted, the more complexity we add to the code, the more we have to manage ourselves and the more potential problems we create. We're not going to uniquely modify the source code unless it is absolutely necessary, especially not for the sake of price manipulation. Nearly all alt-coins that try to differentiate themselves by algorithmic rules are essentially worthless, because they don't offer enough of an advantage over bitcoins to convince bitcoin holders to transfer liquidity. Bitcoins offer enough of a difference between themselves and other currencies like the USD, or Paypal et al, to convince people to put money into it. They're backed by a strong development team, cryptography, and the largest community and network hash power by far.

The true innovation of Devcoins, and why anyone should bother investing in them, are the receiver files. These are the lifeblood of the devcoin community, and they are managed by human beings. This is as revolutionary to bitcoins as bitcoins are to fiat. The value of investment is going to depend solely on the actions of those humans, much like the stock in a company. There is an element of philanthropy here, rather than one of investment, but that's not to say someone can't invest in the coin if they think the people giving their work over to the project for shares, are giving them at a discount. A top writer might be able to earn $100/hour, but if they're writing on devtome for $15/hour, but at $100/quality, a savvy investor might realize that the project actually gains that difference. Of course, for every $100/hour writer on devtome there might be ten $5/hour writers, but there is a value there that counts.

The receiver files (and all the others) are completely transparent, and anyone can see a forum post explaining exactly when and why a person received those shares. If you think it's being handled well, then invest not in the coin, but in the people performing open source and creative commons work at a value less than their worth to the world. Oddly enough, the best writers tend to keep coming back while the poor ones tend to either stop writing or improve, so there is sustained value being created every single round.

For those of you who don't frequent our home on coinzen, Unthinkingbit is taking a step back as lead administrator, and has asked me to take his place. We're working out the details, but rest assured I will attend this coin with the same dedication that he has shown.

EDIT: Here's a chart for dvc/usd going back two years: http://dvcusdchart.blisteringdevelopers.com/daily

As you can see, the very bottom in price has been stably higher after every successive explosive period. Anyone who invested in any of these down periods has had many opportunities to do extremely well. The satoshi price is not an issue with devcoins, or the way that it's working, but an issue with the sheer increase in the price of bitcoins over all this time.
ahmed_bodi
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August 07, 2014, 12:13:44 PM
 #5960

@ahmed
Looking at your github I see you forked myriadcoin from zetacoin, what was the basis behind that decision?

No idea why 8bit did that. more then likely it was due to it being based on a recentish bitcoin source and having a retarget system we keppt

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