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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 773179 times)
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OleOle
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Are you like these guys?


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December 30, 2014, 11:00:02 PM
 #6141

Do it and I will start to follow this coin again. Smiley
Let me know. It's 1 year I don't follow this coin. Any other news I missed?


There's nothing you've missed. A quick look at the gradual tending-toward-zero of the DVC price chart will fully inform you of all the happenings. After all, we have to assume that all the information is priced into the market and I think it's very fair to say that the Devcoin guys have done a great job with information sharing, building co-operation across all parties and being open and flexible with participants, investors and interested groups. When circumstances change or a reason can be figured out as to why people might want to buy DVC on exchanges, then the demand/supply imbalance might be addressed opening the possibility of an upward trajectory in the price of the coin.

  Smiley




since you already know it maybe you can be kind enough to explain the new format ? With it comes the ability to do what deadsea said so maybe you can infer on how this is possible. Thanks



In the interests of equal disclosure and uniformity in the presentation of information, if you have any significant changes to announce to market then you know as well as I do that people who co-ordinate the Devcoin project are the most suitable to release this information. In the meantime, I reserve my right as an observer and investor to point out that the unitary value of DVC has only gone one way so I urge you as and when appropriate to release any changes and improvements that might make the coin more viable as an instrument of currency or value. Unlike some others who have expressed a preference that DVC be discontinued as a supposed monetary unit, I would like to see the project evolve and become successful as unlike many altcoins out there Devcoin does have an attractive ethos underpinning the project which may benefit a wide range of parties. I do though, remain firm in my view that the unit has to have a tradeable value and equalization of the demand/supply characteristics would go some way to creating a more realistic market for the coin.

Suffice to say that normally it is only robust management that can withstand a one year price depreciation graph that looks like this:

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/pair/dvc/btc/vircurex/1-year

The three month graph which theoretically has all the recent news built in and might give a more accurate picture of recent management initiatives doesn't inspire confidence either:

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/pair/dvc/btc/vircurex/3-months

As such, it's probably far more constructive if those associated with the leadership and development of the coin present any enhancements in the best possible light rather than requesting that disenchanted investors who legitimately comment on the one-way downhill ride of DVC speak on behalf of the Devcoin leadership team.

I wish you the very best of luck with all current and future efforts to enhance the viability of the Devcoin project and the price appreciation of the DVC unit.










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December 31, 2014, 01:03:19 AM
 #6142

You said there is nothing you missed which was wrong. The news isnt baked in because there are too many alts and only one exchange.. but as soon as we apply it somewhere useful it may become baked in ofcourse u will always be late as an investor if you act on news that is already out there... its more of an inside look at whats coming that anyone can see from coinzen but noone bothers.. when applied correctly may finally turn the tide..

Propose a solution and others will listen that is the best way to go.. if its doable I will implement it if we all agree. Feature wise im talking.. right now im thinking how to get voting in

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December 31, 2014, 05:25:55 AM
 #6143

i came in as a writer, but later signed on as a signup admin because i believed in this project.... but i am somewhat dismayed at 1)at least one or more peopl i signed up have yet to be paid after 6 months.... 2)my payment as a signup admin has decreased from 5 shares to 1 share..... and 3) the price has been allowed to drop so far (i actually tried on a few occasions to boost it (somewhat successfully in a few instances))... that the return for even a few minutes of my time helping out new signups is now a burden rather than a profession.....  i will continue to help people sign up because i believe in the overall principle behind devcoin.... but there must be some changes made that make sense.... or it becomes a house of cards.....


i run a website where i write about serious political issues.... and currently i get more enjoyment from people visiting it than working for devcoins..... i really think devcoin has a lot of creativity it could bring to the world.... but some things need to drastically change for this to happen.... i'm still here and willing to do whatever i can to help.....

On the # of shares you get for being an admin, it's equal whether it's 1 or 5. What happens is the total shares there are for the round are calculated, and the admins get x%. In other words, if you got 2 shares when there are 100 total, with 200 total you'd get 4 shares (meaning your pay is exactly the same). This helps keep admin payments steady so they don't fluctuate.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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December 31, 2014, 05:28:05 AM
 #6144

Devcoin inflation is too high.

Fork it and cut the monthly receiver files output by 90% going forward and watch Devcoin become valuable again Wink 20 million added per month instead of 200 million would be a start in the right direction.

That's the reason I don't follow this coin anymore. It's such a nice project. You should give 100 million each month out to new customers for free, to ebay, wikipedia, non profit organisation, etc, and make them circulate. You will see that the millions left will have a value much greater than now.
This coin will be killed by greediness.

Yeah, I used to be against this idea but looking back at BTC, that's what made it so popular. Faucets and randomized giveaways got people interested in it and helped gain value (because if I'm given a free coin, I want its value to go up so I help create new value. Millions of others doing the same thing boosts it up considerably).


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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December 31, 2014, 06:24:33 AM
 #6145

What's the approximate value of one DVC coin right now any way ?

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novacadian
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December 31, 2014, 07:44:16 AM
 #6146

Yeah, I used to be against this idea but looking back at BTC, that's what made it so popular. Faucets and randomized giveaways got people interested in it and helped gain value (because if I'm given a free coin, I want its value to go up so I help create new value. Millions of others doing the same thing boosts it up considerably).

Agreed, since the give aways have died down on the forum, so has the traffic. Just as well during the Spammer War. Less collateral damage. Wink

What's the approximate value of one DVC coin right now any way ?

You can find a ticker tape of the current buys at http://coinzen.com

- Nova

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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December 31, 2014, 02:09:06 PM
 #6147

Devcoin inflation is too high.

Fork it and cut the monthly receiver files output by 90% going forward and watch Devcoin become valuable again Wink 20 million added per month instead of 200 million would be a start in the right direction.

That's the reason I don't follow this coin anymore. It's such a nice project. You should give 100 million each month out to new customers for free, to ebay, wikipedia, non profit organisation, etc, and make them circulate. You will see that the millions left will have a value much greater than now.
This coin will be killed by greediness.

People who are saying that inflation is too high, are just early investors who want to save their investment by going to such extreme lenghts like forking the coin, just to make a gain.

That's the worst kind of people we could have as supporters.

They only think about themselves, they don't care about all the other (new) people who might enter devcoin at some point in the future.

If we cut the coin supply, it means early investors (who already got millions of coins for cheap) will ofcourse enjoy it, but all the new people who enter later won't have any advantage.
So this proposed maneuver is just here to please early investors, AND NOTHING ELSE.

(But I am glad this proposition got sacked.)

There is a reason why this coin DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A BLOCK HALVING of any kind, right?

I say, let the coin specification be as it is, it's perfect.

What should be done, is create a better platform and market for the distribution of content. (music, sound, 3d, pictures, etc..)

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December 31, 2014, 02:37:22 PM
 #6148

I would like to be involved in it.
I mean, look for investors. If this works, I don't care if inflation will erode the value. I would like to see this project fly. Not out of greedinees but as a real opportunity to do something for people once.

I think the problem is the way coins are distributed. No investor can rely on anonymous people. They need to see that trusted realities have control on the distribution. Not today, but in the long run. That's why the inclusion of no-profit organisations and at least one payment processor is the minimum.


Exactly!

While it doesn't make sense for Bitcoin or other coins to have a foundation (because those coins are built like a completely trustless decentralized system),
it makes ABSOLUTE sense for devcoin to have a foundation, where leading members who handle the devcoin distribution are registered and visible with their REAL NAMES.
What devcoin needs is liability and responsibility.

It seems like the distribution of devcoins will always rely on real people who decide which user/artist gets how many devcoins each round.
To an extend this can be managed by algorithms, but NEVER 100%.

It's sad, but a very central part of devcoin is completely centralized, and has the potential to ruin the whole coin, because it goes against the very notion of a decentralized and trustless cryptocurrency system.

But this doesn't have to be a flaw.

If the distribution mechanism (new devcoins) can't be converted into some kind of trustless algorithm, than we atleast should have a true foundation, liable under law, when it comes to how those devcoins are handled and distributed.

Has this been discussed before?

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December 31, 2014, 03:01:15 PM
 #6149

Call it foundation, or trust, or even a company (incorporated).

Everybody can call himself "a foundation" (as seen with ixcoin foundation)... what I am talking about is an incorporated foundation (with legal liability).


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January 01, 2015, 05:51:54 AM
 #6150

Wishing the DevCoin Community a healthy and prosperous 2015!

- Nova

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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January 02, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
 #6151

DVC has a great potential. I show you why.

A coin must have:

- a good name -> ok
- liquidity -> ok
- a good (and possibily unique) purpose -> ok
- a low transaction cost -> ok (it's merge mined)
- a community -> ok
- high mining hashrate -> ok
- popularity - ko
- philanthropic projects - ko
- investors - ko
- marketing - ko

The problem is not the number of coins. Bitcoin Community is planning to use bits (1BTC=1,000,000bits). This will 'create' ~ 14,000,000*1,000,000= 14,000,000,000,000.
DVC will get the same number of coins in 14,000,000,000,000/2,400,000,000 = 5833 years

The problem is simple: despite DVC is very cheap in transaction since rides on BTC's back, it has zero real marketing. The reason? It's not really the coin for people. I mean, the way coins are distributed must eradically change.
First you need a partner (a big one) already able to distribute coins to philanthropic organisations. In order to receive more these no profit organizations will have to:
- advertise the coin in public events;
- exchange the coin (the partner will monitor this on its payment processor);
- update their payment / donation systems;
- among their projects, they must promote and support at least one kind of art/skill/sport;
- have a logo in every reality.

With this model you will have the task to oversee the process, without the need to check on every piece of artistic production. You will have more time to develop a strong marketing.
At that point the partner will look like a benefactor, plus it will receive a share for handling the distribution, having a coin with very low transaction fee, lower than that fart of Dogecoin.
Steve Jobs was a visionary. We should try to imitate him.

Absolutely, positively, without a doubt, yes! This post says it all. Marketing and in the way presented is key to success, period.

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January 04, 2015, 08:22:17 AM
 #6152

Well it has taken time but we finally breached the 4 satoshi mark. All the way to the bottom now i fear.
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January 05, 2015, 01:20:13 PM
 #6153

Well it has taken time but we finally breached the 4 satoshi mark. All the way to the bottom now i fear.
Even if it sounds crazy, this his is the right moment to attract investors.

Seems perfectly sane to me. If one believes in DVC there could not be a better time to invest.

- Nova

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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January 05, 2015, 06:40:22 PM
 #6154

Well it has taken time but we finally breached the 4 satoshi mark. All the way to the bottom now i fear.
Even if it sounds crazy, this his is the right moment to attract investors.

Seems perfectly sane to me. If one believes in DVC there could not be a better time to invest.

- Nova

Right on! First investment rule: buy low, sell high.
Something strange in the human psychology to always buy AFTER price has risen dramatically. --> Herd mentality.
So, don't be a sheep!

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January 05, 2015, 07:18:46 PM
 #6155

Well it has taken time but we finally breached the 4 satoshi mark. All the way to the bottom now i fear.
Even if it sounds crazy, this his is the right moment to attract investors.

Seems perfectly sane to me. If one believes in DVC there could not be a better time to invest.

- Nova

Right on! First investment rule: buy low, sell high.
Something strange in the human psychology to always buy AFTER price has risen dramatically. --> Herd mentality.
So, don't be a sheep!

Bought as much as I could when it hit 4!

Papa
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January 05, 2015, 09:42:36 PM
 #6156

Well it has taken time but we finally breached the 4 satoshi mark. All the way to the bottom now i fear.
Even if it sounds crazy, this his is the right moment to attract investors.

Seems perfectly sane to me. If one believes in DVC there could not be a better time to invest.

- Nova

Right on! First investment rule: buy low, sell high.
Something strange in the human psychology to always buy AFTER price has risen dramatically. --> Herd mentality.
So, don't be a sheep!

The problem is buying and buying does nothing if there's never any value added. DVC still, for all intents and purposes, has no value. It has to create it. DVC has to be treated like a business. If I opened a store locally that earned $0, people wouldn't invest. If it was profitable, they would. DVC is the same way.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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January 05, 2015, 10:23:59 PM
 #6157


The problem is buying and buying does nothing if there's never any value added. DVC still, for all intents and purposes, has no value. It has to create it. DVC has to be treated like a business. If I opened a store locally that earned $0, people wouldn't invest. If it was profitable, they would. DVC is the same way.

Ofcourse. We need someone who sells something valuable and accepts Devcoin for it. That's how you create a devcoin related business.

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January 06, 2015, 10:32:14 AM
 #6158


Good.
Hunterbunter, what do you think about that?

I think it's all great discussion, and it's encouraging to see.

This coin is far from dead, and the price is going to do what the price is going to do for the time being. I'm still happy that people are seeing this as a good buying opportunity, as I do myself. It implies that people still believe in its mission, as I do too.

I've had some rl responsibilities hinder my ability to push forward the devcoin proposal since I took over in September, so the reason it is delayed is largely my fault. On the bright side, looking through the proposal now, there's still nothing that I would change about it, so I'm still confident that it will improve things long term (this is what I'm talking about, if you don't know: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_division_proposal).

There were some kinks in the change of leadership when I took over; a lot of admins just disappeared with the falling price, new devtome writers weren't being added by Unthinkingbit, and whole bunch of other stuff I don't have any control over was not being done - my role as "leader" felt very much like a namesake more than anything actually meaningful, and it really felt like I'd been handed a sinking ship just so it had someone to go down with it...without a manual. Maybe that's still the case, however this isn't like a stock where a company can go bankrupt and shut down (like penny stocks), the cryptocurrency is meritable in and of itself, and can be revamped as many times as we need to. As many have mentioned before, a lot of people here don't even earn devcoins because they need the money, they earn them because of its noble mission.

As for the proposed changes themselves, UTB is still in control of accounting, and doesn't want the account files changed (account.py), so instead we're going to have to implement the proposal via the ongoing bounty file, which I do control. The way the files run, however, means it's not going to perfectly divide all the divisions as expected. At the moment, what you see on something like http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com is an imperfect estimate of the final shares, and when the account files are run, things like ratings, admin bonuses, marketing and all that are calculated by UTB and stored on his github. Once they are on there, it is "official", and final. I do my own calculations daily, but the only one that matters is the final one, which sometimes varies from mine slightly, probably because of timing. He then pushes those files to the various file custodians to be spread by the client. To implement the division proposal perfectly, it would have to be done before pushing to clients, which UTB doesn't want to do, from our last conversation. Doing it in the ongoing file means I have to predict what the final values are going to be, create normalizations on these, then the account script adds these to the final account.csv when UTB runs it. While I can make a very good guess, it's not going to be perfect. If the community still supports implementing the proposal this way, then that's what I'll do. I haven't calculated the error, but I estimate it to be around 5%, against the perfect version.

There are several other issues we face, going forward.

The first, is our exchange presence. Vircurex in particular is a problem, because it's run by the same people who run crypto-stocks, and while both were quite busy for a while, I've been hearing nothing but bad things about them for the last twelve months. Vircurex was hacked some time ago, and the owners promised to pay everyone back from the profits of trading, which was slowly working for a time. Then a few months ago, another issue they had meant they had to freeze funds, causing people to basically flee the exchange, which destroyed their trading volume. It still seems to be running ok now, but the volume is ultra light, meaning that both confidence in them is at an all time low, and there is extremely little incentive for the owners to build or invest anything more into it. The risk of putting funds on there long term is too high for my tastes. We are also listed on Cryptsy, which doesn't seem to be suffering the same fate, but being on only one and a half exchanges is disconcerting. We simply need more exchanges, which we aren't going to get until we're more interesting to speculators.

The second, is that we never managed to generate a block on the live chain, so couldn't confidently say our new client worked properly. This had repercussions down the line because people think the client hasn't changed in over a year, when it has had a lot of work done. The changes work in the test-net, but we have to convince the bigger merge mining pools to try them live and confirm all is well. One thing we could do is simply declare the new client official, and assume it works. It's not good practice to do this, but we may not have any other option without investing serious capital into mining hardware. I tried to do it with blisterpool, but p2pool just didn't pay out frequently enough to keep people interested...even when I was paying a 20% bonus in devcoins! I have had other ideas to get people to lend us their hash, but haven't had the time to actually do any of it. My time will become more available after January, which is when I can more seriously attempt the division changes again.

Devtome writers haven't been added for some time. UTB is still in charge of adding them, and I believe there is a substantial amount of work that goes into vetting new writers, which he seems to not have had the time to do. He is still around and is still doing the files, so the only thing writers can do about this is hound him until he does it, unfortunately.

Lastly, I wasn't exactly given a handbook on things when Unthinkingbit handed over the reigns, and essentially admins as they were have complete control over their assigned duties. This lack of organization is extremely difficult to problem solve, so one of the things I will address soon is who is actually still here doing their jobs. As someone mentioned, accountability has been poor, and that has to change if we have any hope of recovering. On that note, we will probably go through a mass culling of administrators in the next few rounds. Anyone who is still willing to work on devcoins (and has been), irrespective of the price are of course immune to the cull, but I suspect many haven't been bothering to do their duties as promised. I know the pay exists and is supposed to have some meaning, but to draw on the movies for a moment, I would rather have 300 Spartans than 3000 potters, sculptors and blacksmiths.
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January 06, 2015, 02:45:14 PM
 #6159

So very excellent to hear from you Hunter!  I am still around so count me in to help however I can be of service.  I am for moving forward with the proposal.

Papa
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January 07, 2015, 02:18:10 AM
 #6160

Didn't want to copy Hunter's post but fwiw, I've been continuing my duties. At least what I could. I'm a writing admin and have continued to cull and such, but UTB's absence has created issues since I basically have to just report to him. With that said, I'll keep my positions going forward if I can!


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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