[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[sidhujag]

Vote for block rewards change before next release http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1032.msg34586.html#msg34586

Damn, am I the only one who voted no? I must start an anti-reward-change campaign...  

You can use the discussion thread to talk about the proposal too.

I also started a new thread about the voting system: http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1034.msg34589.html#msg34589

There is a proposal from me that would affect shares too.

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[smeagol]

Vote for block rewards change before next release http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1032.msg34586.html#msg34586

Damn, am I the only one who voted no? I must start an anti-reward-change campaign...  

You can use the discussion thread to talk about the proposal too.

I also started a new thread about the voting system: http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1034.msg34589.html#msg34589

There is a proposal from me that would affect shares too.

Sidhujag, could you create a poll for transaction messaging and myriadcoin multiple algos?  I can make bounties to attract more devs, too.

[sidhujag]

Vote for block rewards change before next release http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1032.msg34586.html#msg34586

Damn, am I the only one who voted no? I must start an anti-reward-change campaign...  

You can use the discussion thread to talk about the proposal too.

I also started a new thread about the voting system: http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1034.msg34589.html#msg34589

There is a proposal from me that would affect shares too.

Sidhujag, could you create a poll for transaction messaging and myriadcoin multiple algos?  I can make bounties to attract more devs, too.

tx messaging and myriadcoin?

THing with adding services to the blockchain would be we are moving away from the bitcoin protocol and any updates would mean harder and harder changes back to devcoin... so we really need to evaluate if we should do such a thing I can forsee in the future that only a few alt coins will be able to keep up to the bitcoin codebase and leverage true developer power while the altcoins die off due to lack to developer competence. By adding something like tx messaging you would need to re-integrate every single time and with every thin client perhaps that needs to connect, unless its scalable such that something like the android client doesnt need to know about it? I'm trying to keep it as close to btc as possible while adding reciever file stuff... but perhaps if the pro's outweigh the con's we can always do it.. just think long term. Whatever bitcoin implements it is easy to do so with devcoin.

For example someone on IRC asked me how to change the default base58 properties set in chainparams, and I didnt change ours because devcoin is totally address compatible with bitcoin they are the same, but any other coin that attempted to create a non conforming address with bitcoin (every alt besides devcoin) needs to know how to create bip32 priv/pub key pairs to enter in the base58 properties in order to properly integrate the 0.9.2 codebase... so since I never touched it I investigated and found it to be the whole openssl heartbleeed bip32 fix.. and some algorithm is externally applied to find this information... many people will not know how to calculate these things going forward and we were able to leverage bitcoin's tools and development to be able to integrate 0.9.2 rather painlessly. Also any thin client that integrates bip32 and such are also freebies for devcoin.. whereas other alt coins will lose the ability to "keep up" unless they have a bigger development community thats capable (not many).

[fishy]

What files do you need to change to change the algo?

I myself am a large holder of devcoin and the ability to mine with another algo would probably bring more network hashpower as well as more coin popularity.

[ahmed_bodi]

Vote for block rewards change before next release http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1032.msg34586.html#msg34586

Damn, am I the only one who voted no? I must start an anti-reward-change campaign...  

You can use the discussion thread to talk about the proposal too.

I also started a new thread about the voting system: http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1034.msg34589.html#msg34589

There is a proposal from me that would affect shares too.

Sidhujag, could you create a poll for transaction messaging and myriadcoin multiple algos?  I can make bounties to attract more devs, too.

tx messaging and myriadcoin?

THing with adding services to the blockchain would be we are moving away from the bitcoin protocol and any updates would mean harder and harder changes back to devcoin... so we really need to evaluate if we should do such a thing I can forsee in the future that only a few alt coins will be able to keep up to the bitcoin codebase and leverage true developer power while the altcoins die off due to lack to developer competence. By adding something like tx messaging you would need to re-integrate every single time and with every thin client perhaps that needs to connect, unless its scalable such that something like the android client doesnt need to know about it? I'm trying to keep it as close to btc as possible while adding reciever file stuff... but perhaps if the pro's outweigh the con's we can always do it.. just think long term. Whatever bitcoin implements it is easy to do so with devcoin.

For example someone on IRC asked me how to change the default base58 properties set in chainparams, and I didnt change ours because devcoin is totally address compatible with bitcoin they are the same, but any other coin that attempted to create a non conforming address with bitcoin (every alt besides devcoin) needs to know how to create bip32 priv/pub key pairs to enter in the base58 properties in order to properly integrate the 0.9.2 codebase... so since I never touched it I investigated and found it to be the whole openssl heartbleeed bip32 fix.. and some algorithm is externally applied to find this information... many people will not know how to calculate these things going forward and we were able to leverage bitcoin's tools and development to be able to integrate 0.9.2 rather painlessly. Also any thin client that integrates bip32 and such are also freebies for devcoin.. whereas other alt coins will lose the ability to "keep up" unless they have a bigger development community thats capable (not many).

^ this was me btw. and i agree with changing to devcoin to multi algorithm but not to add tx messaging. However i can also agree with sidhujag. It will take major effort to stay inline with the bitcoin codebase.

Ahmed

[sidhujag]

What files do you need to change to change the algo?

I myself am a large holder of devcoin and the ability to mine with another algo would probably bring more network hashpower as well as more coin popularity.

It depends which algo.. im not sure how much work it is. If its as simple as changing the getwork routines im all for it, but if it means changing the way blocks are stored on disk or memory then i disagree. The mining part is seperated pretty well now in the new base..

Remember that since the hash is so high it may not make economic sense to try to mine with another algo? How will you find a block when competing against asics? Not sure how multi algo works in this regard.

Also think about the fact that miners only get 10% of each block.. is it really a miners coin?  Maybr when value is realy high.. but the security is important and if the merge mined pools arent helping thrn we can investigate other algos to improve security.

[ahmed_bodi]

What files do you need to change to change the algo?

I myself am a large holder of devcoin and the ability to mine with another algo would probably bring more network hashpower as well as more coin popularity.

It depends which algo.. im not sure how much work it is. If its as simple as changing the getwork routines im all for it, but if it means changing the way blocks are stored on disk or memory then i disagree. The mining part is seperated pretty well now in the new base..

Remember that since the hash is so high it may not make economic sense to try to mine with another algo? How will you find a block when competing against asics? Not sure how multi algo works in this regard.

Also think about the fact that miners only get 10% of each block.. is it really a miners coin?  Maybr when value is realy high.. but the security is important and if the merge mined pools arent helping thrn we can investigate other algos to improve security.

You'd essentially need a version scheme. E.G. SHA256 has a block version number of 2. and Scrypt has 3, etc etc.

Each Algorithm Would have its own difficulty and so that means theres no competition between asics.

[sidhujag]

What files do you need to change to change the algo?

I myself am a large holder of devcoin and the ability to mine with another algo would probably bring more network hashpower as well as more coin popularity.

It depends which algo.. im not sure how much work it is. If its as simple as changing the getwork routines im all for it, but if it means changing the way blocks are stored on disk or memory then i disagree. The mining part is seperated pretty well now in the new base..

Remember that since the hash is so high it may not make economic sense to try to mine with another algo? How will you find a block when competing against asics? Not sure how multi algo works in this regard.

Also think about the fact that miners only get 10% of each block.. is it really a miners coin?  Maybr when value is realy high.. but the security is important and if the merge mined pools arent helping thrn we can investigate other algos to improve security.

You'd essentially need a version scheme. E.G. SHA256 has a block version number of 2. and Scrypt has 3, etc etc.

Each Algorithm Would have its own difficulty and so that means theres no competition between asics.

Ok so there is conflict there between sha256 blocks vs merge mined blocks vs algo x blocks... all blocks need to be stored on disk via mutable/imutable data.. this was optimized when rsnel optmized i0coin merge mining memory usage... If you can add a version and check for it when reading/writing its pretty simple but I think it may be more complicated than that... probably have to rewrite sections to make it simple to extend or integrate with bitcoin all over again.. its quite a bit of work. Is it really worth it?

[ahmed_bodi]

Yeah it might be a bit more work. And really i doubt it will impact DVC much. over @ MYR, we're all struggling in a way to get more dev's, users and popularity even though its premine/instamine free and we're all working hard towards being as legit and fair as possible

Ahmed

[smeagol]

@ahmed
Looking at your github I see you forked myriadcoin from zetacoin, what was the basis behind that decision?

[Hunterbunter]

Devcoins are not about value through scarcity. It is one of the few coins that aren't actually about the coin at all, and only use the cryptocurrency part as a tool to achieve something of greater value - proliferating open source and creative commons. I understand that people don't like seeing the current price, but there is a reason for it, and it's not a bad thing. Even at this price, people are still excited to release open source toys (http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,150.msg34312.html#msg34312), and writing on devtome is still going strong (63% of shares for round 37: http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com/).

The codebase needs to remain extremely conservative, and will leverage the effort of bitcoiners in that regard. As Sidhujag noted, the more complexity we add to the code, the more we have to manage ourselves and the more potential problems we create. We're not going to uniquely modify the source code unless it is absolutely necessary, especially not for the sake of price manipulation. Nearly all alt-coins that try to differentiate themselves by algorithmic rules are essentially worthless, because they don't offer enough of an advantage over bitcoins to convince bitcoin holders to transfer liquidity. Bitcoins offer enough of a difference between themselves and other currencies like the USD, or Paypal et al, to convince people to put money into it. They're backed by a strong development team, cryptography, and the largest community and network hash power by far.

The true innovation of Devcoins, and why anyone should bother investing in them, are the receiver files. These are the lifeblood of the devcoin community, and they are managed by human beings. This is as revolutionary to bitcoins as bitcoins are to fiat. The value of investment is going to depend solely on the actions of those humans, much like the stock in a company. There is an element of philanthropy here, rather than one of investment, but that's not to say someone can't invest in the coin if they think the people giving their work over to the project for shares, are giving them at a discount. A top writer might be able to earn $100/hour, but if they're writing on devtome for $15/hour, but at $100/quality, a savvy investor might realize that the project actually gains that difference. Of course, for every $100/hour writer on devtome there might be ten $5/hour writers, but there is a value there that counts.

The receiver files (and all the others) are completely transparent, and anyone can see a forum post explaining exactly when and why a person received those shares. If you think it's being handled well, then invest not in the coin, but in the people performing open source and creative commons work at a value less than their worth to the world. Oddly enough, the best writers tend to keep coming back while the poor ones tend to either stop writing or improve, so there is sustained value being created every single round.

For those of you who don't frequent our home on coinzen, Unthinkingbit is taking a step back as lead administrator, and has asked me to take his place. We're working out the details, but rest assured I will attend this coin with the same dedication that he has shown.

EDIT: Here's a chart for dvc/usd going back two years: http://dvcusdchart.blisteringdevelopers.com/daily

As you can see, the very bottom in price has been stably higher after every successive explosive period. Anyone who invested in any of these down periods has had many opportunities to do extremely well. The satoshi price is not an issue with devcoins, or the way that it's working, but an issue with the sheer increase in the price of bitcoins over all this time.

[ahmed_bodi]

@ahmed
Looking at your github I see you forked myriadcoin from zetacoin, what was the basis behind that decision?

No idea why 8bit did that. more then likely it was due to it being based on a recentish bitcoin source and having a retarget system we keppt

[Athanasios Motok]

Ok so i don't know if this was already brought up at all or if anything similar was tried, Do you think devtome as well as writing should sponsor photography? Maybe something like 1 share per 10 original pictures and the pictures would be rated for quality, overall look... Im not talking about family reunion type pictures but more like scenery, automotive, nature and other things people may like. Tell me what you think.
-AM

[From Above]

Ok so i don't know if this was already brought up at all or if anything similar was tried, Do you think devtome as well as writing should sponsor photography? Maybe something like 1 share per 10 original pictures and the pictures would be rated for quality, overall look... Im not talking about family reunion type pictures but more like scenery, automotive, nature and other things people may like. Tell me what you think.
-AM

devcoin is dead ... thats what i think.
~CfA~

[sidhujag]

Ok so i don't know if this was already brought up at all or if anything similar was tried, Do you think devtome as well as writing should sponsor photography? Maybe something like 1 share per 10 original pictures and the pictures would be rated for quality, overall look... Im not talking about family reunion type pictures but more like scenery, automotive, nature and other things people may like. Tell me what you think.
-AM

How would devcoin be rewarded for a photo business? ad revenue?

[notabot]

For those of you who don't frequent our home on coinzen, Unthinkingbit is taking a step back as lead administrator, and has asked me to take his place. We're working out the details, but rest assured I will attend this coin with the same dedication that he has shown.

Congratulations Hunterbunter. We are in good hands.

.....I noticed the huge increase in traffic that occurred in round 35.  You'll see in the rounds before round 35 the traffic was at roughly 200k pageviews, then it jumps to around 600k.  I'm just wondering, what caused this?  Where is all this new traffic coming from?

Here's the traffic analytics page:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_analytics

Thanks.

You can view the page hits at https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity and selecting the devtome_analytics_xx.csv and sorting by page hits. It could be due to good promotion/high visibility links/ and/or advertising campaigns.

[fishy]

Ok so i don't know if this was already brought up at all or if anything similar was tried, Do you think devtome as well as writing should sponsor photography? Maybe something like 1 share per 10 original pictures and the pictures would be rated for quality, overall look... Im not talking about family reunion type pictures but more like scenery, automotive, nature and other things people may like. Tell me what you think.
-AM

How would devcoin be rewarded for a photo business? ad revenue?

sell photos for commercial use, then convert revenue to DVC

[Athanasios Motok]

Ok so i don't know if this was already brought up at all or if anything similar was tried, Do you think devtome as well as writing should sponsor photography? Maybe something like 1 share per 10 original pictures and the pictures would be rated for quality, overall look... Im not talking about family reunion type pictures but more like scenery, automotive, nature and other things people may like. Tell me what you think.
-AM

How would devcoin be rewarded for a photo business? ad revenue?

sell photos for commercial use, then convert revenue to DVC

This is what I was thinking to sell the photos online and convert what is made into DVC.
-AM

[sidhujag]

Ok so i don't know if this was already brought up at all or if anything similar was tried, Do you think devtome as well as writing should sponsor photography? Maybe something like 1 share per 10 original pictures and the pictures would be rated for quality, overall look... Im not talking about family reunion type pictures but more like scenery, automotive, nature and other things people may like. Tell me what you think.
-AM

How would devcoin be rewarded for a photo business? ad revenue?

sell photos for commercial use, then convert revenue to DVC

This is what I was thinking to sell the photos online and convert what is made into DVC.
-AM

You should make a business proposal on devtome and then have everyone review to see the idea it should outline what the inputs and outputs are and be as objective as possible as well as you should do market research if it already exists or something like it etc.

[Athanasios Motok]

http://www.filedropper.com/devgallery

That's the plan