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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 949259 times)
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ranlo
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June 03, 2015, 05:43:47 AM
 #6261

OK who's in charge in here? let's talk about what to do of this coin before it really dies.
First of all, why don't we introduce the halving just as btc. Should be about time now.

anche check your coinzen forum, someone is spamming it like a garbage bin.

No idea who's in charge anymore. Some of us admins have somehow been missing months of payments, despite following through with our jobs during the entire period. There are a lot of fixes that need to be dealt with before things like halving are even talked about, and there are apparently people getting a LOT more coins than they should be.

Isn't Unthinkingbit still in charge?

I haven't been tracking my payments too well to notice if I've been missing any, other than the last round, because my earnings were zero and that's hard to miss. It looks like they got put back into round 47, though.

The part that bugs me, though, is that when I got taken off earnings for my jobs (because I failed to reply to the forum post a month ago), I never got a PM about it. I did get other admin related PMs, though, like please upload the latest receiver file. So I kept doing my duties not realizing that because I didn't reply to a forum post I was about to be able to keep the job but not the pay LOL. In the future, when there's an important change or decision affecting an admin, it's a good courtesy to message us specifically so we are alerted. If you want to add regular forum participation as part of the job description, then that's fine, but since that's not a requirement currently (and was not when we signed on) we should all get PM'd about this change and given a chance to decide to make sure we check in as often as needed to meet the new criteria or quit. I also believe that regardless of what goes on in the other forums, the major information and updates should continue to be posted to this BCT thread. That's how it works with other coins. There are only so many forums one can actively participate in and still remain sane Smiley It's basically BCT and one or two others. So major information and updates need to be posted here.

I even responded about my jobs. I even updated the list on the wiki. Yet was still missing at least 2 months of full payments, and one month where I'm missing about 85% of them. I didn't go back past 3 months, but there's likely even more missing. Which means with some of us admins missing payments, all the others that were on the list are OVERPAID for the same period. Basically some of us got screwed big time. This is majorly off-putting to me.

FWIW, they are aware I'm still around. I respond to every inquiry from UTB about hosting the receiver files. I didn't realize I needed to keep checking the payment files to ensure I was still on the list, though. I figured as long as admins are aware I'm still active and am doing my jobs, I'd remain on it. Now I don't even know what to think.
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June 03, 2015, 06:15:50 AM
 #6262

I even responded about my jobs. I even updated the list on the wiki. Yet was still missing at least 2 months of full payments, and one month where I'm missing about 85% of them. I didn't go back past 3 months, but there's likely even more missing. Which means with some of us admins missing payments, all the others that were on the list are OVERPAID for the same period. Basically some of us got screwed big time. This is majorly off-putting to me.

FWIW, they are aware I'm still around. I respond to every inquiry from UTB about hosting the receiver files. I didn't realize I needed to keep checking the payment files to ensure I was still on the list, though. I figured as long as admins are aware I'm still active and am doing my jobs, I'd remain on it. Now I don't even know what to think.

It sounds like you were making some reasonable assumptions. Based on your post I would say that I think some things with how the script is handled, including but not limited to the human factor, got out of whack. I'm guessing that with the DVC price being depressed for so long, doing all the work to keep things neat and clean on the coding end maybe wasn't quite as high a priority as it should have been. Maybe some short cuts were taken, some corners cut to save time. I'm not directly accusing anyone, just presenting a likely scenario. I don't get the impression that there was any malice or desire to cheat anyone involved. I do think any time saved over the past few months will be lost several times over in cleaning things up. I hope that cleanup does get done.

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June 03, 2015, 06:27:10 AM
 #6263

I even responded about my jobs. I even updated the list on the wiki. Yet was still missing at least 2 months of full payments, and one month where I'm missing about 85% of them. I didn't go back past 3 months, but there's likely even more missing. Which means with some of us admins missing payments, all the others that were on the list are OVERPAID for the same period. Basically some of us got screwed big time. This is majorly off-putting to me.

FWIW, they are aware I'm still around. I respond to every inquiry from UTB about hosting the receiver files. I didn't realize I needed to keep checking the payment files to ensure I was still on the list, though. I figured as long as admins are aware I'm still active and am doing my jobs, I'd remain on it. Now I don't even know what to think.

It sounds like you were making some reasonable assumptions. Based on your post I would say that I think some things with how the script is handled, including but not limited to the human factor, got out of whack. I'm guessing that with the DVC price being depressed for so long, doing all the work to keep things neat and clean on the coding end maybe wasn't quite as high a priority as it should have been. Maybe some short cuts were taken, some corners cut to save time. I'm not directly accusing anyone, just presenting a likely scenario. I don't get the impression that there was any malice or desire to cheat anyone involved. I do think any time saved over the past few months will be lost several times over in cleaning things up. I hope that cleanup does get done.

I didn't say there was malice involved, but it doesn't change the situation. Here's the deal:

Every month right now, there are 8 BTC or so given out to those that are on the earnings files. If half of us aren't on it and half are, they're getting 2x as much payment while the rest get nothing. 8 BTC is quite a bit to just ignore right now, especially if DVC ever rises (in which case it's now significantly more than 8 BTC per month being misappropriated).
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June 03, 2015, 09:37:04 AM
 #6264

so it's a total mess here. don't you believe it's time to tidy up the room and start all over again? you cannot just sit there and wait for your payment. looks like we are dealing with a state postal office: people doing nothing all day just waiting for their monthly check.
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June 03, 2015, 09:43:53 AM
 #6265

Really? Do you have any proof of your statement? if there really went more than 100k $ into development there should be a bigger impact of progress for Devcoin than it is/was.  Undecided i am still a big DVC hodler.

More then 100k $ of revenues from mining went into development, only in the last year, and what did you accomplish?
154k $ market cap, you are a bunch of thieves!
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June 03, 2015, 11:06:23 AM
 #6266

Really? Do you have any proof of your statement? if there really went more than 100k $ into development there should be a bigger impact of progress for Devcoin than it is/was.  Undecided i am still a big DVC hodler.

More then 100k $ of revenues from mining went into development, only in the last year, and what did you accomplish?
154k $ market cap, you are a bunch of thieves!

Simple: in a year devcoin has 2.5B new coins mined, 2B of which goes to devs. In may last year devcoin was worth 20 satoshi and fell all along the way to 4 (I believe it's the same devs selling most of their monthly check). Let's assume 10 satoshi average price at a 350$ avg bitcoin price: 2B*350*0.00000010 = 70k usd. Not far from the 100k estimate by lechatnoir.

Now, assuming devcoin remains at these prices around 5 satoshi with btc at 250 for the next year, it's only 25k, less than 2500 a month. how many people split these revenues? what do they do with it? why don't they move their ass to push the price of this coin north of 20 satoshi with some real development that revives the community?
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June 03, 2015, 02:08:41 PM
 #6267

so it's a total mess here. don't you believe it's time to tidy up the room and start all over again? you cannot just sit there and wait for your payment. looks like we are dealing with a state postal office: people doing nothing all day just waiting for their monthly check.

There are only like two people with access to change things. The rest of us CAN'T do anything but wait -- we can't change anything without file access. What you're saying is like saying "you can't wait for Bitcointalk to allow avatars again. You have to do it yourself instead of waiting for them to do it." You can't do something if you have no control over it.
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June 03, 2015, 02:34:31 PM
 #6268

I didn't say there was malice involved, but it doesn't change the situation. Here's the deal:

Every month right now, there are 8 BTC or so given out to those that are on the earnings files. If half of us aren't on it and half are, they're getting 2x as much payment while the rest get nothing. 8 BTC is quite a bit to just ignore right now, especially if DVC ever rises (in which case it's now significantly more than 8 BTC per month being misappropriated).

Oh, I get that, and it's disappointing. You're correct about this not being something to ignore. You're also correct about not really being able to access the files and clean things up.

What do you recommend as a next step?

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June 04, 2015, 12:24:57 AM
 #6269

I didn't say there was malice involved, but it doesn't change the situation. Here's the deal:

Every month right now, there are 8 BTC or so given out to those that are on the earnings files. If half of us aren't on it and half are, they're getting 2x as much payment while the rest get nothing. 8 BTC is quite a bit to just ignore right now, especially if DVC ever rises (in which case it's now significantly more than 8 BTC per month being misappropriated).

Oh, I get that, and it's disappointing. You're correct about this not being something to ignore. You're also correct about not really being able to access the files and clean things up.

What do you recommend as a next step?

I have no idea. I reached out to UTB already about a week ago and still haven't heard back. Not sure what we can do without him, and his absence is causing a lot of issues. We're in limbo until either he does something or he allows someone else to do it.
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June 04, 2015, 04:05:34 AM
 #6270

I have no idea. I reached out to UTB already about a week ago and still haven't heard back. Not sure what we can do without him, and his absence is causing a lot of issues. We're in limbo until either he does something or he allows someone else to do it.

I got a message from him May 27 asking me to upload round 47 receiver files to my website. What exactly do you mean by "his absence" and being unsure what we can do without him?

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June 04, 2015, 04:58:07 AM
 #6271

I have no idea. I reached out to UTB already about a week ago and still haven't heard back. Not sure what we can do without him, and his absence is causing a lot of issues. We're in limbo until either he does something or he allows someone else to do it.

I got a message from him May 27 asking me to upload round 47 receiver files to my website. What exactly do you mean by "his absence" and being unsure what we can do without him?

June 3 - May 27 = 7 days = a week

Anyways, he's the only one with access to alter receivers, as far as I'm aware. Things like adding admins to it, bounties, etc. If we can't add people or take people off the list, we're effectively left with no power. If we can't control the project, and he isn't... I don't get what you're missing, lol.

It's like working at Walmart and having an issue with your paycheck:

"Can I speak to the manager?"
"Sorry... not sure where he is"
"Who can I get a hold of to fix my payment issue?"
"The manager"
"Where is he?"
"I told you, we have no idea. When he randomly pops in, you can ask him. Until then, you'll just have to work without pay or find another job. Oh, and any money you have earned and continue to earn will just be split among the people that are still on the payroll, so you're effectively working to earn them more money while you get nothing. Sorry dude!"
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June 04, 2015, 10:28:53 PM
 #6272

I have no idea. I reached out to UTB already about a week ago and still haven't heard back. Not sure what we can do without him, and his absence is causing a lot of issues. We're in limbo until either he does something or he allows someone else to do it.

I got a message from him May 27 asking me to upload round 47 receiver files to my website. What exactly do you mean by "his absence" and being unsure what we can do without him?

June 3 - May 27 = 7 days = a week

Anyways, he's the only one with access to alter receivers, as far as I'm aware. Things like adding admins to it, bounties, etc. If we can't add people or take people off the list, we're effectively left with no power. If we can't control the project, and he isn't... I don't get what you're missing, lol.

It's like working at Walmart and having an issue with your paycheck:

"Can I speak to the manager?"
"Sorry... not sure where he is"
"Who can I get a hold of to fix my payment issue?"
"The manager"
"Where is he?"
"I told you, we have no idea. When he randomly pops in, you can ask him. Until then, you'll just have to work without pay or find another job. Oh, and any money you have earned and continue to earn will just be split among the people that are still on the payroll, so you're effectively working to earn them more money while you get nothing. Sorry dude!"

So you're assuming that because we haven't heard from UTB in a week that he's no longer controlling the project? Or is there something else going on? That strikes me as similar to the assumption that was made that because I (and some others) wasn't checking this thread regularly and I missed an announcement about filling out a form with our admin duties, that I had disappeared and wasn't attending to my duties any longer.

I probably am missing key information, but not hearing from someone in a week doesn't in and of itself strike me as a huge issue. If that week drags into several weeks or months, then yes, it's a concern.

But I get the feeling there are other things going on, and that's probably what I'm missing.

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June 04, 2015, 11:19:12 PM
 #6273

I have no idea. I reached out to UTB already about a week ago and still haven't heard back. Not sure what we can do without him, and his absence is causing a lot of issues. We're in limbo until either he does something or he allows someone else to do it.

I got a message from him May 27 asking me to upload round 47 receiver files to my website. What exactly do you mean by "his absence" and being unsure what we can do without him?

June 3 - May 27 = 7 days = a week

Anyways, he's the only one with access to alter receivers, as far as I'm aware. Things like adding admins to it, bounties, etc. If we can't add people or take people off the list, we're effectively left with no power. If we can't control the project, and he isn't... I don't get what you're missing, lol.

It's like working at Walmart and having an issue with your paycheck:

"Can I speak to the manager?"
"Sorry... not sure where he is"
"Who can I get a hold of to fix my payment issue?"
"The manager"
"Where is he?"
"I told you, we have no idea. When he randomly pops in, you can ask him. Until then, you'll just have to work without pay or find another job. Oh, and any money you have earned and continue to earn will just be split among the people that are still on the payroll, so you're effectively working to earn them more money while you get nothing. Sorry dude!"

So you're assuming that because we haven't heard from UTB in a week that he's no longer controlling the project? Or is there something else going on? That strikes me as similar to the assumption that was made that because I (and some others) wasn't checking this thread regularly and I missed an announcement about filling out a form with our admin duties, that I had disappeared and wasn't attending to my duties any longer.

I probably am missing key information, but not hearing from someone in a week doesn't in and of itself strike me as a huge issue. If that week drags into several weeks or months, then yes, it's a concern.

But I get the feeling there are other things going on, and that's probably what I'm missing.

What it means is that he's not actively controlling it. If it takes us 1 week to a month to get a hold of him for problems, that's way too long. I had an issue before with a user and it took him almost 5 weeks to get back to me. You can't run a project when someone only shows up once a month for a quick period and then disappears for another month. Issues are then left for up to a month at a time. i.e., you want to add a new user? You can't do it for over a month because he'll show up AFTER the previous month's receivers are generated, and THEN he'll respond (and maybe add them). In other words, it takes new users as many as 2 months to be added. Most people aren't going to want to wait 1/6 of a year just to be added, and then another 1/6 of a year to actually receive anything.

There are many other issues with the system now as well, but this whole "wait a month until I return and I'll respond" thing isn't viable for a project.

Anyways, you're free to do whatever you want. I've already made my decision.
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June 05, 2015, 09:33:56 AM
 #6274

DVC has a great potential. I show you why.

A coin must have:

- a good name -> ok
- liquidity -> ok
- a good (and possibily unique) purpose -> ok
- a low transaction cost -> ok (it's merge mined)
- a community -> ok
- high mining hashrate -> ok
- popularity - ko
- philanthropic projects - ko
- investors - ko
- marketing - ko

The problem is not the number of coins. Bitcoin Community is planning to use bits (1BTC=1,000,000bits). This will 'create' ~ 14,000,000*1,000,000= 14,000,000,000,000.
DVC will get the same number of coins in 14,000,000,000,000/2,400,000,000 = 5833 years

The problem is simple: despite DVC is very cheap in transaction since rides on BTC's back, it has zero real marketing. The reason? It's not really the coin for people. I mean, the way coins are distributed must eradically change.
First you need a partner (a big one) already able to distribute coins to philanthropic organisations. In order to receive more these no profit organizations will have to:
- advertise the coin in public events;
- exchange the coin (the partner will monitor this on its payment processor);
- update their payment / donation systems;
- among their projects, they must promote and support at least one kind of art/skill/sport;
- have a logo in every reality.

With this model you will have the task to oversee the process, without the need to check on every piece of artistic production. You will have more time to develop a strong marketing.
At that point the partner will look like a benefactor, plus it will receive a share for handling the distribution, having a coin with very low transaction fee, lower than that fart of Dogecoin.
Steve Jobs was a visionary. We should try to imitate him.

this was a good post, will someone finally move their arse and do something? where's unthinkingbit? anyone able to get hold of him?
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June 05, 2015, 11:46:09 AM
 #6275

The centralization of creating the csv payouts are what has held it back aswell as supply too high when demand is low.. I've tried to remedy both things with proposals when price was higher but was shot down in a vote by community.. So I can't say I didn't try. I believ you fix these things using prediction markets etc and maybe u can fix devcoin but I thing now other coins do what devcoin does but are better.

Utb stepped aside for hunterbunter and things really haven't been same since.. He still does round updates that's it.
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June 06, 2015, 12:20:21 AM
 #6276

The centralization of creating the csv payouts are what has held it back aswell as supply too high when demand is low.. I've tried to remedy both things with proposals when price was higher but was shot down in a vote by community.. So I can't say I didn't try. I believ you fix these things using prediction markets etc and maybe u can fix devcoin but I thing now other coins do what devcoin does but are better.

Utb stepped aside for hunterbunter and things really haven't been same since.. He still does round updates that's it.

Yeah, it's been 9 days since I tried to get a hold of UTB. No luck. Usually he only gets in touch when a round ends (so every 4-5 weeks). That's just not viable.
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June 07, 2015, 04:38:51 AM
 #6277

Utb stepped aside for hunterbunter and things really haven't been same since.. He still does round updates that's it.

So HunterBunter is now in charge?

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June 07, 2015, 05:01:59 AM
 #6278

What it means is that he's not actively controlling it. If it takes us 1 week to a month to get a hold of him for problems, that's way too long. I had an issue before with a user and it took him almost 5 weeks to get back to me. You can't run a project when someone only shows up once a month for a quick period and then disappears for another month. Issues are then left for up to a month at a time. i.e., you want to add a new user? You can't do it for over a month because he'll show up AFTER the previous month's receivers are generated, and THEN he'll respond (and maybe add them). In other words, it takes new users as many as 2 months to be added. Most people aren't going to want to wait 1/6 of a year just to be added, and then another 1/6 of a year to actually receive anything.

There are many other issues with the system now as well, but this whole "wait a month until I return and I'll respond" thing isn't viable for a project.

Anyways, you're free to do whatever you want. I've already made my decision.

OK, I see what you're saying. I didn't notice previous long absences because, well, I wasn't around either, except I always dealt with PMs related to my admin duties.

I'm not sure that there's much of anything to decide. Devcoins are fairly easy to earn; there's nothing lost to continue to earn them like that. But, to heavily invest a lot of time or resources into them may not be such a good choice right now.

I see that Devcoin has a unique proposition--to reward open source development--and in the beginning went about it in a very ingenious way (and the whole receiver lines thing is really ingenious). But it suffers from being among the first. There's a lot about it that's clunky and hard to work with, and there's way too much supply that's constantly growing at a rate of 180,000,000 a month with very little to absorb it. Like with a lot of coins, supply has outpaced fruitful development of any kind of meaningful economy that could create demand. Lots of alts suffer from this issue but it's especially a big deal with Devcoin because of the constant and infinite increase in supply by 180M each and every months. It's possible Devcoin could make a comeback. But I suspect it won't, simply because since Devcoin began technology has developed to the point where there are lots of better ways to accomplish Devcoin's mission, but Devcoin's already hard coded. It's the pioneer problem. They say, you know how you can tell the pioneers? They're the ones with all the arrows sticking into their back. Devcoin was a pioneer, and a darned good one too. And it will continue to help people out, especially writers. But... I think it has been and will continue to be, outcompeted by better newer altcoins. It doesn't help when the original developer burns out and the new dev may not have quite the same vision or drive. That's another issue lots of altcoins have... being too dependent on one person with no clear way to cross train or pass the torch. That dev invariably burns out and disappears (gradually at first), and then the coin's value plummets and nothing further happens, even when a new dev supposedly steps up. UTB stuck it out for a very long time, but I suppose he's had enough. He did delegate a lot of stuff, but it seems not quite enough. Having one person responsible for too much isn't sustainable in the long term.

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June 08, 2015, 01:51:17 AM
 #6279

What it means is that he's not actively controlling it. If it takes us 1 week to a month to get a hold of him for problems, that's way too long. I had an issue before with a user and it took him almost 5 weeks to get back to me. You can't run a project when someone only shows up once a month for a quick period and then disappears for another month. Issues are then left for up to a month at a time. i.e., you want to add a new user? You can't do it for over a month because he'll show up AFTER the previous month's receivers are generated, and THEN he'll respond (and maybe add them). In other words, it takes new users as many as 2 months to be added. Most people aren't going to want to wait 1/6 of a year just to be added, and then another 1/6 of a year to actually receive anything.

There are many other issues with the system now as well, but this whole "wait a month until I return and I'll respond" thing isn't viable for a project.

Anyways, you're free to do whatever you want. I've already made my decision.

I haven't been checking lately, but what about Hunterbunter?  I thought he was in charge.

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June 08, 2015, 07:12:17 AM
 #6280

I'm not sure that there's much of anything to decide. Devcoins are fairly easy to earn; there's nothing lost to continue to earn them like that. But, to heavily invest a lot of time or resources into them may not be such a good choice right now.

They're not "fairly easy to earn" when you've been contributing for 2+ months and have gotten nothing since you were, for some reason, removed from all of the payout lists. This is the part that bothers me. Basically, the work I've been doing has just been getting other people higher payouts.
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