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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 665313 times)
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June 04, 2015, 10:28:53 PM
 #6301

I have no idea. I reached out to UTB already about a week ago and still haven't heard back. Not sure what we can do without him, and his absence is causing a lot of issues. We're in limbo until either he does something or he allows someone else to do it.

I got a message from him May 27 asking me to upload round 47 receiver files to my website. What exactly do you mean by "his absence" and being unsure what we can do without him?

June 3 - May 27 = 7 days = a week

Anyways, he's the only one with access to alter receivers, as far as I'm aware. Things like adding admins to it, bounties, etc. If we can't add people or take people off the list, we're effectively left with no power. If we can't control the project, and he isn't... I don't get what you're missing, lol.

It's like working at Walmart and having an issue with your paycheck:

"Can I speak to the manager?"
"Sorry... not sure where he is"
"Who can I get a hold of to fix my payment issue?"
"The manager"
"Where is he?"
"I told you, we have no idea. When he randomly pops in, you can ask him. Until then, you'll just have to work without pay or find another job. Oh, and any money you have earned and continue to earn will just be split among the people that are still on the payroll, so you're effectively working to earn them more money while you get nothing. Sorry dude!"

So you're assuming that because we haven't heard from UTB in a week that he's no longer controlling the project? Or is there something else going on? That strikes me as similar to the assumption that was made that because I (and some others) wasn't checking this thread regularly and I missed an announcement about filling out a form with our admin duties, that I had disappeared and wasn't attending to my duties any longer.

I probably am missing key information, but not hearing from someone in a week doesn't in and of itself strike me as a huge issue. If that week drags into several weeks or months, then yes, it's a concern.

But I get the feeling there are other things going on, and that's probably what I'm missing.

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June 04, 2015, 11:19:12 PM
 #6302

I have no idea. I reached out to UTB already about a week ago and still haven't heard back. Not sure what we can do without him, and his absence is causing a lot of issues. We're in limbo until either he does something or he allows someone else to do it.

I got a message from him May 27 asking me to upload round 47 receiver files to my website. What exactly do you mean by "his absence" and being unsure what we can do without him?

June 3 - May 27 = 7 days = a week

Anyways, he's the only one with access to alter receivers, as far as I'm aware. Things like adding admins to it, bounties, etc. If we can't add people or take people off the list, we're effectively left with no power. If we can't control the project, and he isn't... I don't get what you're missing, lol.

It's like working at Walmart and having an issue with your paycheck:

"Can I speak to the manager?"
"Sorry... not sure where he is"
"Who can I get a hold of to fix my payment issue?"
"The manager"
"Where is he?"
"I told you, we have no idea. When he randomly pops in, you can ask him. Until then, you'll just have to work without pay or find another job. Oh, and any money you have earned and continue to earn will just be split among the people that are still on the payroll, so you're effectively working to earn them more money while you get nothing. Sorry dude!"

So you're assuming that because we haven't heard from UTB in a week that he's no longer controlling the project? Or is there something else going on? That strikes me as similar to the assumption that was made that because I (and some others) wasn't checking this thread regularly and I missed an announcement about filling out a form with our admin duties, that I had disappeared and wasn't attending to my duties any longer.

I probably am missing key information, but not hearing from someone in a week doesn't in and of itself strike me as a huge issue. If that week drags into several weeks or months, then yes, it's a concern.

But I get the feeling there are other things going on, and that's probably what I'm missing.

What it means is that he's not actively controlling it. If it takes us 1 week to a month to get a hold of him for problems, that's way too long. I had an issue before with a user and it took him almost 5 weeks to get back to me. You can't run a project when someone only shows up once a month for a quick period and then disappears for another month. Issues are then left for up to a month at a time. i.e., you want to add a new user? You can't do it for over a month because he'll show up AFTER the previous month's receivers are generated, and THEN he'll respond (and maybe add them). In other words, it takes new users as many as 2 months to be added. Most people aren't going to want to wait 1/6 of a year just to be added, and then another 1/6 of a year to actually receive anything.

There are many other issues with the system now as well, but this whole "wait a month until I return and I'll respond" thing isn't viable for a project.

Anyways, you're free to do whatever you want. I've already made my decision.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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June 05, 2015, 09:33:56 AM
 #6303

DVC has a great potential. I show you why.

A coin must have:

- a good name -> ok
- liquidity -> ok
- a good (and possibily unique) purpose -> ok
- a low transaction cost -> ok (it's merge mined)
- a community -> ok
- high mining hashrate -> ok
- popularity - ko
- philanthropic projects - ko
- investors - ko
- marketing - ko

The problem is not the number of coins. Bitcoin Community is planning to use bits (1BTC=1,000,000bits). This will 'create' ~ 14,000,000*1,000,000= 14,000,000,000,000.
DVC will get the same number of coins in 14,000,000,000,000/2,400,000,000 = 5833 years

The problem is simple: despite DVC is very cheap in transaction since rides on BTC's back, it has zero real marketing. The reason? It's not really the coin for people. I mean, the way coins are distributed must eradically change.
First you need a partner (a big one) already able to distribute coins to philanthropic organisations. In order to receive more these no profit organizations will have to:
- advertise the coin in public events;
- exchange the coin (the partner will monitor this on its payment processor);
- update their payment / donation systems;
- among their projects, they must promote and support at least one kind of art/skill/sport;
- have a logo in every reality.

With this model you will have the task to oversee the process, without the need to check on every piece of artistic production. You will have more time to develop a strong marketing.
At that point the partner will look like a benefactor, plus it will receive a share for handling the distribution, having a coin with very low transaction fee, lower than that fart of Dogecoin.
Steve Jobs was a visionary. We should try to imitate him.

this was a good post, will someone finally move their arse and do something? where's unthinkingbit? anyone able to get hold of him?
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June 05, 2015, 11:46:09 AM
 #6304

The centralization of creating the csv payouts are what has held it back aswell as supply too high when demand is low.. I've tried to remedy both things with proposals when price was higher but was shot down in a vote by community.. So I can't say I didn't try. I believ you fix these things using prediction markets etc and maybe u can fix devcoin but I thing now other coins do what devcoin does but are better.

Utb stepped aside for hunterbunter and things really haven't been same since.. He still does round updates that's it.

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June 06, 2015, 12:20:21 AM
 #6305

The centralization of creating the csv payouts are what has held it back aswell as supply too high when demand is low.. I've tried to remedy both things with proposals when price was higher but was shot down in a vote by community.. So I can't say I didn't try. I believ you fix these things using prediction markets etc and maybe u can fix devcoin but I thing now other coins do what devcoin does but are better.

Utb stepped aside for hunterbunter and things really haven't been same since.. He still does round updates that's it.

Yeah, it's been 9 days since I tried to get a hold of UTB. No luck. Usually he only gets in touch when a round ends (so every 4-5 weeks). That's just not viable.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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June 07, 2015, 04:38:51 AM
 #6306

Utb stepped aside for hunterbunter and things really haven't been same since.. He still does round updates that's it.

So HunterBunter is now in charge?

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June 07, 2015, 05:01:59 AM
 #6307

What it means is that he's not actively controlling it. If it takes us 1 week to a month to get a hold of him for problems, that's way too long. I had an issue before with a user and it took him almost 5 weeks to get back to me. You can't run a project when someone only shows up once a month for a quick period and then disappears for another month. Issues are then left for up to a month at a time. i.e., you want to add a new user? You can't do it for over a month because he'll show up AFTER the previous month's receivers are generated, and THEN he'll respond (and maybe add them). In other words, it takes new users as many as 2 months to be added. Most people aren't going to want to wait 1/6 of a year just to be added, and then another 1/6 of a year to actually receive anything.

There are many other issues with the system now as well, but this whole "wait a month until I return and I'll respond" thing isn't viable for a project.

Anyways, you're free to do whatever you want. I've already made my decision.

OK, I see what you're saying. I didn't notice previous long absences because, well, I wasn't around either, except I always dealt with PMs related to my admin duties.

I'm not sure that there's much of anything to decide. Devcoins are fairly easy to earn; there's nothing lost to continue to earn them like that. But, to heavily invest a lot of time or resources into them may not be such a good choice right now.

I see that Devcoin has a unique proposition--to reward open source development--and in the beginning went about it in a very ingenious way (and the whole receiver lines thing is really ingenious). But it suffers from being among the first. There's a lot about it that's clunky and hard to work with, and there's way too much supply that's constantly growing at a rate of 180,000,000 a month with very little to absorb it. Like with a lot of coins, supply has outpaced fruitful development of any kind of meaningful economy that could create demand. Lots of alts suffer from this issue but it's especially a big deal with Devcoin because of the constant and infinite increase in supply by 180M each and every months. It's possible Devcoin could make a comeback. But I suspect it won't, simply because since Devcoin began technology has developed to the point where there are lots of better ways to accomplish Devcoin's mission, but Devcoin's already hard coded. It's the pioneer problem. They say, you know how you can tell the pioneers? They're the ones with all the arrows sticking into their back. Devcoin was a pioneer, and a darned good one too. And it will continue to help people out, especially writers. But... I think it has been and will continue to be, outcompeted by better newer altcoins. It doesn't help when the original developer burns out and the new dev may not have quite the same vision or drive. That's another issue lots of altcoins have... being too dependent on one person with no clear way to cross train or pass the torch. That dev invariably burns out and disappears (gradually at first), and then the coin's value plummets and nothing further happens, even when a new dev supposedly steps up. UTB stuck it out for a very long time, but I suppose he's had enough. He did delegate a lot of stuff, but it seems not quite enough. Having one person responsible for too much isn't sustainable in the long term.

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June 08, 2015, 01:51:17 AM
 #6308

What it means is that he's not actively controlling it. If it takes us 1 week to a month to get a hold of him for problems, that's way too long. I had an issue before with a user and it took him almost 5 weeks to get back to me. You can't run a project when someone only shows up once a month for a quick period and then disappears for another month. Issues are then left for up to a month at a time. i.e., you want to add a new user? You can't do it for over a month because he'll show up AFTER the previous month's receivers are generated, and THEN he'll respond (and maybe add them). In other words, it takes new users as many as 2 months to be added. Most people aren't going to want to wait 1/6 of a year just to be added, and then another 1/6 of a year to actually receive anything.

There are many other issues with the system now as well, but this whole "wait a month until I return and I'll respond" thing isn't viable for a project.

Anyways, you're free to do whatever you want. I've already made my decision.

I haven't been checking lately, but what about Hunterbunter?  I thought he was in charge.

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June 08, 2015, 07:12:17 AM
 #6309

I'm not sure that there's much of anything to decide. Devcoins are fairly easy to earn; there's nothing lost to continue to earn them like that. But, to heavily invest a lot of time or resources into them may not be such a good choice right now.

They're not "fairly easy to earn" when you've been contributing for 2+ months and have gotten nothing since you were, for some reason, removed from all of the payout lists. This is the part that bothers me. Basically, the work I've been doing has just been getting other people higher payouts.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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June 08, 2015, 08:22:51 AM
 #6310

so let's find hunterbunter. also, anyway devcoin inflation can be reduced? periodic halving like bitcoin would be definitely needed here. maybe every 2 years starting from like... now!!
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June 08, 2015, 08:25:47 AM
 #6311

so let's find hunterbunter. also, anyway devcoin inflation can be reduced? periodic halving like bitcoin would be definitely needed here. maybe every 2 years starting from like... now!!

I do not think of it that it will come.


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June 08, 2015, 01:06:24 PM
 #6312

even with the devs under hibernation the price is slowly going up, I'm impressed. are they secretly buying from their freeze cell before announcing a comeback? usually that's the way devs make money: promise amazing things, pump the price and sell the coins, once the are done, disappoint the buyers, undergo hibernation, buy the lows, make a comeback, new promises again, pump up the price, sell to the gullible public... rinse and repeat.
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June 08, 2015, 07:54:46 PM
 #6313

even with the devs under hibernation the price is slowly going up, I'm impressed. are they secretly buying from their freeze cell before announcing a comeback? usually that's the way devs make money: promise amazing things, pump the price and sell the coins, once the are done, disappoint the buyers, undergo hibernation, buy the lows, make a comeback, new promises again, pump up the price, sell to the gullible public... rinse and repeat.
there are no devs lol

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June 09, 2015, 04:52:17 AM
 #6314

They're not "fairly easy to earn" when you've been contributing for 2+ months and have gotten nothing since you were, for some reason, removed from all of the payout lists. This is the part that bothers me. Basically, the work I've been doing has just been getting other people higher payouts.

They're easy to earn by writing content. That's how most of us got started. But yes, that falls apart if the work we do doesn't trigger the expected payout. As far as I can tell there's nothing wrong with the script that pays for writing. The script to pay admins needs some work.

And I'll echo the sentiment that has been hinted at here, which is that whoever the Devcoin developers are now, can you please "stand up?" I realize devs have better things to do than spend a lot of time on forums, but... a brief update post once or twice a week goes a long way.

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June 09, 2015, 02:49:15 PM
 #6315

They're not "fairly easy to earn" when you've been contributing for 2+ months and have gotten nothing since you were, for some reason, removed from all of the payout lists. This is the part that bothers me. Basically, the work I've been doing has just been getting other people higher payouts.

They're easy to earn by writing content. That's how most of us got started. But yes, that falls apart if the work we do doesn't trigger the expected payout. As far as I can tell there's nothing wrong with the script that pays for writing. The script to pay admins needs some work.

And I'll echo the sentiment that has been hinted at here, which is that whoever the Devcoin developers are now, can you please "stand up?" I realize devs have better things to do than spend a lot of time on forums, but... a brief update post once or twice a week goes a long way.
You have been with devcoin for months and u still don't remember the one and only dev it had for over 2 years? I made a post a few pages back.. I hope that gives closure. If another dev wants to can contact me so I can set him up.

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June 10, 2015, 04:03:16 AM
 #6316

You have been with devcoin for months and u still don't remember the one and only dev it had for over 2 years? I made a post a few pages back.. I hope that gives closure. If another dev wants to can contact me so I can set him up.

If you had asked me this a week ago I would have said Unthinkingbit. But there's been some talk here that UTB has stepped down or passed the torch to someone else. HunterBunter's name has been thrown around as the current lead dev, but I haven't seen him confirm it himself.

So yes, despite how long I've been around with Devcoin, I am currently not sure who the current lead developer is. If you happen to know, then please say who it is. Thanks.

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June 10, 2015, 08:52:59 AM
 #6317

Hunterbunter's role and proposed changes were made clear months ago by him and by UTB. He put quite a bit of time into information and suggestions, and there were comments by people posting recently claiming not to know.

Sidhujag, myself and others proposed changes to alter the dynamics and avoid reaching an inevitable stasis. Many put a lot of effort into various working aspects with their own constructive opinions. They were dismissed by the few, largely out of economic ignorance and personal greed. Hopefully recent changes and renewed input by HB, Nova and others can turn things around, and personally I don't have a lot of time for admins, recipients and writers who take little interest beyond their own benefit or input, then moan about it.

The simple ethos of Devcoin is something beyond easy gain or skewed monetary advantage of a pyramid like most cryptos. Making it a success requires adhering to that ethos of community involvement and thinking further forward than the latest receiver file.

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June 10, 2015, 01:58:32 PM
 #6318

Hunterbunter's role and proposed changes were made clear months ago by him and by UTB. He put quite a bit of time into information and suggestions, and there were comments by people posting recently claiming not to know.

I missed all that. Life got in the way. As far as I know I was merely asking questions. I'd be happy to be pointed to a summary article (on the Devtome?) outlining all the changes and plans for the future.

Sidhujag, myself and others proposed changes to alter the dynamics and avoid reaching an inevitable stasis. Many put a lot of effort into various working aspects with their own constructive opinions. They were dismissed by the few, largely out of economic ignorance and personal greed. Hopefully recent changes and renewed input by HB, Nova and others can turn things around, and personally I don't have a lot of time for admins, recipients and writers who take little interest beyond their own benefit or input, then moan about it.

The simple ethos of Devcoin is something beyond easy gain or skewed monetary advantage of a pyramid like most cryptos. Making it a success requires adhering to that ethos of community involvement and thinking further forward than the latest receiver file.

The only people I've heard "moaning" were people who continued to work as admins and who for whatever reason stopped getting paid. That seems reasonable. I know I "moaned" about not being informed of those changes via PM which would affect my role as admin even though I was receiving PM correspondence in relation to specific admin duties. That seems reasonable too, imo.

Just some feedback: throwing out a blanket statement about "admins, recipients and writers who take little interest beyond their own benefit or input" is a real turnoff. I'm assuming it wasn't directed at me personally, but it's hard to not feel accused nonetheless. I can't imagine that is very good for what Devcoin stands for and is trying to accomplish in the world.

A suggestion: if someone asks a question, please just answer it. If the answer is buried earlier in the thread and people are still asking about it, that means an FAQ article needs to be written and the link posted on a regular basis as well as the front page of the Devtome. There's a built in incentive for someone in the know to write that article, invoice it, and post it.

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June 10, 2015, 03:21:43 PM
 #6319

I missed all that. Life got in the way. As far as I know I was merely asking questions. I'd be happy to be pointed to a summary article (on the Devtome?) outlining all the changes and plans for the future.

The only people I've heard "moaning" were people who continued to work as admins and who for whatever reason stopped getting paid. That seems reasonable. I know I "moaned" about not being informed of those changes via PM which would affect my role as admin even though I was receiving PM correspondence in relation to specific admin duties. That seems reasonable too, imo.

Just some feedback: throwing out a blanket statement about "admins, recipients and writers who take little interest beyond their own benefit or input" is a real turnoff. I'm assuming it wasn't directed at me personally, but it's hard to not feel accused nonetheless. I can't imagine that is very good for what Devcoin stands for and is trying to accomplish in the world.

A suggestion: if someone asks a question, please just answer it. If the answer is buried earlier in the thread and people are still asking about it, that means an FAQ article needs to be written and the link posted on a regular basis as well as the front page of the Devtome. There's a built in incentive for someone in the know to write that article, invoice it, and post it.
You're an admin, someone who should strive to be a proactive informer not the informed, and claiming lost earnings on those terms. An objective observer might conclude there's an inherent conflict in pursuing that angle while also stating fundamental information was missed because life got in the way. You were also party to lengthy discussions on coinzen about various changes and plans. I know this because I was also involved in them. Whether you're turned-off by honest comments by someone who isn't an admin is a matter for your logic or insecurities not mine. And whether you should feel accused is a matter for your conscience not mine.

However I won't continue as getting personal wouldn't make for a pleasant exchange and there's no upside for either of us in that. But perhaps you should ask yourself what it is you think Devcoin stands for and is trying to accomplish, rather than throwing out that defensive and patronising rebuke. If it incorporates 'a built in incentive for someone in the know to write that article, invoice it, and post it' then we still have very different perspectives and ideals, and in my opinion gets to the core of historical problems.

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June 10, 2015, 05:53:30 PM
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If it incorporates 'a built in incentive for someone in the know to write that article, invoice it, and post it' then we still have very different perspectives and ideals, and in my opinion gets to the core of historical problems.

I can't be the one to write that article right now because I'm not in the know. Not anymore Sad I know I've been involved in discussions before, but I do not know what the current state of affairs is. I'm trying to find out. But no one else here seems to know, or if they know, they're not sharing.

I figured out what happened. When the changes came I did get sent a PM through CoinZen, but it never forwarded to my email so I never saw it. And I wasn't active on the forum to see that I had a message there. It looks like everything has moved over to CoinZen, so I'm going to have to dig through there to figure things out--unless you'd like to fill me in. My current admin duties do not necessarily require me to know the latest developments in order to do my duties.

I agree with you that there is no benefit to getting personal here. This thread is going to be someone's first impression of Devcoin, because Bitcoin Talk is still considered the go to forum for all things crypto including alt coins. For this reason, (and this is a general recommendation) despite how one might feel about whether an admin who asks a question should have done homework or is motivated by greed or whatever, it's still more professional to just answer a question that someone asks. And the answer can include pointing to a link (a CoinZen thread, even) where the answer is posted so as not to repeat things too much. But there should be a straight answer. I was really speaking to that when I gave my feedback and suggestion.


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