[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[weisoq]

I know it's safe but my issue is with stopping eset from quarantining it. Even if I turn it off it will still flag it later on scan. How can I whitelist it?

Tried your link too, got flagged on download.

I don't know, but like a lot of new software until it's more ubiquitous AV's may flag it. I didn't receive any quarantine msg but think I did initially have to permit it to run (same with some other clients) until I guess enough users of my AV were also running the .exe. I don't use eset but would assume there's an excluded processes section or similar which gives you an override option. edit: http://www.eset.sg/html/171/779

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[dalamar96]

So far the Chinese are not even a visible presence in the Galactic Milieu, let alone serious competition for the Brits, Canucks and Martians, heck maybe not even for the Italians or the Ixians.

There is at least one planet upon which a Chinese civilisation exists or at least did once upon a time exist, but so far no players to play it nor even to play citizens of it have appeared.

Maybe the Chinese are over-rated, or are too blinded by trivial earnings in the now to be more than just another bunch of Johnny-come-lately folk, that is, maybe they won't arrive until people who already set up infrastructure and trade deals and alliances and so on and so on are already making good money, so that they will end up being just the dirt cheap peasants the established, landed classes/nations hire to do the grunt-work for peanuts.

It seems likely that the best profits will be made by the people who already had infrastructure and processes in place to put cheap labour to work not by the cheap labourers themselves.

-MarkM-

LOL I was talking more about selling WOW Gold or EQII Gold or whatever

[georgem]

A bounty exchange would be cool but when I brought it up before UTB said we simply don't have enough admins to support growing bounty list that is dynamic based on some demand... but I think if it starts small it will go a long way to 1) get new ideas of projects that may help devcoin and 2) a platform to communicate, update status and provide feedback to those working on bounties.. would help organize things, like maybe a testing phase of the bounty where people are assigned to tasks to ensure the bounty is complete to spec.

Exactly. The system should work fine on its own. Admins should only do something if there is a complaint and question etc... that would be the ultimate goal.

The amount of shares that are given should be derived by the developer who is willing to take the least amount of devcoins for the particular task.
That way we could introduce some kind of competition that lowers the shares, but rises the value of devcoins.
Aslong as people get large amount of devcoins for simply writing a text about anything they want nomatter the value for society we are not going anywhere.

It seemed just a matter of time for this shoe to drop. The religious zeal of market competition will have western freelance developers competing with Asian developers for $3/hour bids, which one now sees on many coding monkey projects' sites. Meanwhile writers get $50/hour for writing to DevTomes. A few shares spread around for a committee to get the mandate of this project down for referral may be a good idea.
- Nova

Yes, I understand this. But let's not forget this is the holy new bitcoin economy.

Yes, other nations are forced to use certain kinds of currencies and are used to certain kinds of government subsidised living expenses.... we have to take that into account.
But bitcoin/devcoin etc is awholenother gameplay.

Let poorer people show what they can do, and earn their living by recieving a fair and decent amount of currency. They are not stupid, and embrace new possibilities.

We want poorer people in this market, don't you agree? Why exclude them?

We absolutely need low wage jobs so that practically everyone can enter the jobmarket. That is a fantastic thing and should not be seen as a problem. In the contrary, will that not advance the open source community even more?

Also just wait... life is going to get more expensive in those countries soon.... should a big collapse of worldwide connected fiat currencies come (and I am 100% sure this is going to happen) then we will see people flock into alternative markets even more than we already see.

It is possible (and crypto price development agrees with me) that cryptos might help derive a new worldwide standard of purchasing power index, so that (expressed in bitcoins) disparities in worldwide living expenses will not be as large as they are now.
It will bring the people of the world (who are separated by their governments) together.

(What is the real cost of things? How long will we let corrupt government set price indexes of stuff we need in our lifes? Can't cryptos do a better job in that in the future?)

[markm]

If we pick the programs we pay people to develop correctly, western programmers should haveno  problem moving on from writing profitable programs for X dollars an hour to running profitably programs written by others for X/10 or whatever dollars an hour?

The trick lies in the design/determination of what programs will be profitable to run, not in how cheaply you can hire yourself out as a code-monkey (typing ape?), presumably.

-MarkM-

[georgem]

If we pick the programs we pay people to develop correctly, western programmers should have problem moving on from writing profitable programs for X dollars an hour to running profitably programs written by others for X/10 or whatever dollars an hour?

The trick lies in the design/determination of what programs will be profitable to run, not in how cheaply you can hire yourself out as a code-monkey (typing ape?), presumably.

-MarkM-

Yes, but why do you keep on calculating everything in dollars? That's part of the dump mentality that immediately wants to dump devcoins for dollars, in fear that something might happen to devcoins value.

I have now long understood that those hilarious coins I have in my wallets are always going to surprise me when I keep valueing them in fiat dollars. So I'd better stop with that.

A devcoin is a devcoin. A bitcoin is a bitcoin. The sooner everybody accepts that the faster we will move into the future.

If the low wage workers see that others take 1000 devcoins for a similar job why should they play by government rules when they don't need to do so?
Why should they take the same differential that exists with dollars and apply it to devcoins? Why not just taking 900 devcoins instead of only 100?
If they are cheaper, they will play with the market, and not give their competitive advantage away for free like stupid slaves.

If they are clever they should derive the value of devcoins by the stuff they can buy with devcoins someplace where devcoins are accepted... (thats what we need more of)

[markm]

It is them calculating in dollars. Have you ever watched what happens with coins that the masses know of no drop dead simple way to turn into fiat?

Have you noticed they always want an exchange to/from fiat first before even a place to buy coffee or food or clothing or shelter with the coin?

I assumed the gold-farmers would be looking for gold they can sell for dollars, otherwise presumably they would already be flooding into the CPU mining concept to mine gold they can sell for DeVCoins or Litecoins or Bitcoins or Martian Botcoins or United Kingdom Britcoins or Canadian Digital Notes or whatever...

For the programmers, presumably they are probably doing code-monkey level stuff to try to get some fiat, otherwise they would do much cleverer stuff heck even just doing a quick hack job on a foocoin->barcoin scale would likely make them more money faster, or being the one who hires codemonkeys to make code be more lucrative (assuming they actually have good ideas of what to have built instead of just coding skills without any idea what would actually be profitable if built.)

-MarkM-

[georgem]

It is them calculating in dollars. Have you ever watched what happens with coins that the masses know of no drop dead simple way to turn into fiat?

Have you noticed they always want an exchange to/from fiat first before even a place to buy coffee or food or clothing or shelter with the coin?

I assumed the gold-farmers would be looking for gold they can sell for dollars, otherwise presumably they would already be flooding into the CPU mining concept to mine gold they can sell for DeVCoins or Litecoins or Bitcoins or Martian Botcoins or United Kingdom Britcoins or Canadian Digital notes or whatever...

For the programmers, presumably they are probably doing code-monkey level stuff to try to get some fiat, otherwise they would do much cleverer stuff heck even just doign a quick hack job on a foocoin->barcoin scale would likely make them more money faster, or being the one who hires codemonkeys to make code be more lucrative (assuming they actually have good ideas of what to have built instead of just coding skills without any idea what would actually be profitable if built.)

-MarkM-

Yes, but devcoin plays an important part in this coming paradigm change.

At the moment the big part of world wide population has no easy access to cryptocurrency because they have to go thru the dinosaur banking system and their insane regulations.
So they always have to use fiat to buy crypto, and it's a hurdle many are not willing to jump over.

But devcoin gives people worldwide the possibility to recieve a well established cryptocurrency by doing some task and creating something of value for the open source community.

So fiat is not needed anymore to recieve a cryptocurrency. Now your work is needed, and not government controlled fiat currency.

THAT is one of the most important potentials devcoin has.

It's like what they say about bitcoin: That bitcoins future will be absolutely bright should we reach a point sometime when many people get payed their salary in bitcoins and then go and buy things with bitcoins (and therefor pay the salary of other people in bitcoin etc)... a neverending circle of crypto bliss.

When that is achieved, cryptocurrencies will be a large part of the world economy.

Devcoin can help this process.

[Hunterbunter]

Yes, but why do you keep on calculating everything in dollars? That's part of the dump mentality that immediately wants to dump devcoins for dollars, in fear that something might happen to devcoins value.

I have now long understood that those hilarious coins I have in my wallets are always going to surprise me when I keep valueing them in fiat dollars. So I'd better stop with that.

A devcoin is a devcoin. A bitcoin is a bitcoin. The sooner everybody accepts that the faster we will move into the future.

If the low wage workers see that others take 1000 devcoins for a similar job why should they play by government rules when they don't need to do so?
Why should they take the same differential that exists with dollars and apply it to devcoins? Why not just taking 900 devcoins instead of only 100?
If they are cheaper, they will play with the market, and not give their competitive advantage away for free like stupid slaves.

If they are clever they should derive the value of devcoins by the stuff they can buy with devcoins someplace where devcoins are accepted... (thats what we need more of)

It's inevitable, the world still runs on fiat. The only way for people to start valuing things in terms of a cryptocurrency is to basically start price fixing things.

-- Oh what can I get with 1 thousand bitcoins? today its a car, tomorrow its a house!

needs to turn into

-- Oh what can I get with 1 million devcoins? This, this and this, priced in devcoins and it doesn't seem to change day to day...I now know what I can get when someone offers me devcoins for work...I can rely on it!

At some point, will the amount of devcoins paid per 1000 words, or per bounty, become a fixed amount? Is that easier to account? Better for creators? Not as exciting? With shares, of course, how many coins you get paid is wildly dependent on how many shares everyone gets.

[markm]

I guess you need to hire people for that.

If you know you can get a field of potatoes planted tended harvested and delivered for X DeVCoins you will be in a position to predict how many DeVCoins you need to charge per pound of potatoes.

Though futures markets would also help for crops, in case the weather does you a nasty.

You'd need to contract the workers for a full crop cycle though or use futures to hedge against strikes and such as well as the weather.

By the way Namecoins and Litecoins are both on nice downswings of price on Vircurex; since both seem likely to go back up again at least once before dying completely this seems a good time to have lowball buy offers going down and down and down into lower and lower prices, wating to pick up some bargains ready for the next upswing...

-MarkM-

[ThinkI]

Just added an advert for writing user guides on Cyclos aka DVCbank.

I suggest everyone else who has signed up, do something similar (for the types of work they are interested in ).

We need some (more?) categories added to help organize things.

Who's going to be admin?
Can adds be moved?

ThinkI

[markm]

Currently I am admin but it can support designating more people as admins.

I dunno what exactly an admin can do with regards to ads.

I don't even recall what default ad-categories it came with.

What categories do we need?

-MarkM-

[georgem]

It's inevitable, the world still runs on fiat. The only way for people to start valuing things in terms of a cryptocurrency is to basically start price fixing things.

-- Oh what can I get with 1 thousand bitcoins? today its a car, tomorrow its a house!

needs to turn into

-- Oh what can I get with 1 million devcoins? This, this and this, priced in devcoins and it doesn't seem to change day to day...I now know what I can get when someone offers me devcoins for work...I can rely on it!

At some point, will the amount of devcoins paid per 1000 words, or per bounty, become a fixed amount? Is that easier to account? Better for creators? Not as exciting? With shares, of course, how many coins you get paid is wildly dependent on how many shares everyone gets.

Fixing things will always achieve the opposite.

The way I want crypto currencies to succed is to see them be deflationary forever. Because people tend to do everything better and more efficient over time, that's the nature of the free markets.
Ofcourse only If governments gets out of the way.

Imagine a world where everything is like computers. Getting cheaper and faster all the time aslong as laws of nature allow for an improvement.

That would be the only limit we get on what we can achieve. Not the limits and fixings made by governments.

What's with the space craft that will be payed with devcoins in 2035? To reach that goal we need the free market.  
We need to think outside of government dogma and propaganda.

[dalamar96]

Currently I am admin but it can support designating more people as admins.

I dunno what exactly an admin can do with regards to ads.

I don't even recall what default ad-categories it came with.

What categories do we need?

-MarkM-

How does it hold the devcoins in Escrow?

[cexylikepie]

I see that there is a current user on Devtome that is doing League of Legends guides.
I am not like this person, his guides are copied and pasted over and over with very little actual information or depth.

I do not like it at all that he is taking advantage of devtome and i assure you my guides will be quality, lengthy, and very in depth.

I want to help people become better players, not take advantage of devtome. I really suggest removing that toxic user and his so-called "guides".

Anybody can use copy and paste.

I was thinking of doing guides as well... Is his work really plagiarized?
-AM

they arent exactly "plagiarized, however, he seems to copy and paste his same guide with different pictures relative to the champion.
here are some examples
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=jayce_top_guide
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=orianna_middle_guide
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=fiddlesticks_jungle_guide

i cant find any more on the main page and i am still new so i cant navigate very well. However, in the vast majority of his guides there is basically the skills, and some flavor text.
for example, in every "mid" guide he posts you can find these 2 lines EXACTLY
Flash: Is ok. You can also tweak it with ghost if you want.
Ignite: Standard boost/finish for AP mages. You better take at least one ignite per team the healing reduction is so useful.

you will find that EXACT text for every mid guide, with a little info on each skill. Its disgusting.

[markm]

How does it hold the devcoins in Escrow?

It doesn't. It is a community currency bank type of program. It has clients for all the phones, the ability to let people sell things for the currency on their websites and all that kind of stuff, but never heard of cryptocoins.

Having people create modules for deposit and disbursement of cryptocoins would be nice things to offer bounties for, heck maybe even just continuing work on the free open source version now that - or when - the original developers move on to a proprietary version might be a darn good thing for DevCoin to consider supporting...

This is part of why I worry about admins.

I need to figure out whether I can give people the ability to admin the ads for example without the ability to change anyone's balances.

With Open Transactions people's balances cannot be changed without them signing off on the change.

Normal banks that is not the case.

I do not want to record on my Open Transactions server that The Bank of Devcoin, or DVCbank, or DVCcyclos or whatever I am going to call it on the Open Transactions side has X number of (digi)DeVCoins, by locking up the corresponding dDVC (digiDeVCoins) on the Open Transactions server, only to find later that on the Cyclos side they issued more than that many DeVCoins of balances to their users.

Unless it is in fact agreed that the DVCbank will operate on a fractional reserve basis, of course.

I am thinking maybe it would be useful if any withdraw from Cyclos type of functions can be locked up in the event a user has an outstanding loan, so that loaned balances cannot stray beyond the confines of the Cyclos system. That way even if they do go fractional reserve they won't actually leak any DeVCoins (or digiDevCoins, which is really what I plan to have the Cyclos balances represent).

There are so far only 210 million digiDeVCoins (dDVC) issued on the Open Transactions server, corresponding to real DeVCoins I have in wallets.

There is no withdrawing from those wallets. Hot wallet functionality is totally distinct from and over-and-above those cold wallet coins.

The cold coins are intended to be frozen "forever", that is, until I foresee no future need for any dDVC to exist.

Hot wallets are thus in addition to those 100% reserves, so that even if a hot wallet vanished the dDVC tokens in the Open Transactions system would still continue to each represent one whole DeVCoin frozen in a wallet.

Ideally hotwallet services (the buying and selling of the dDVC tokens for/with actual on the blockchain DeVCoins) would be done by third parties.

-MarkM-

[ThinkI]

I don't even recall what default ad-categories it came with.

What categories do we need?

-MarkM-

Some basic categories to start with:
Writing: Fiction
Writing: Non-Fiction
Art

Then just look through DevTome and use the categories there to create sub categories.

Anyone got any better ideas?

ThinkI

[markm]

I should maybe note too that I am not actually the admin, as in my own username on the system is not flagged as an admin.

The actual admin that came with the system is still the only admin, and I happen to be the only person who has its password.

That is probably not quite the same thing as simply having my own username flagged as an admin, for example if there is fine grained control over each and every thing one can flag a user as having an admin power over then likely this built in original admin has it all flagged.

So it might be kind of like a "root user" in Unix: an account one actually should try very hard to never actually use nor even maybe need to use.

There seems to be an abstraction layer between fine grained controls and types of user, so that an active admin user means a user having certain powers, an active full member user has different powers and so on.

So it might be possible to make a type of user labelled an advertising admin, and assign to that type various powers relating to advertising.

users seem maybe to be of only one type at a time though, if so a full member would be distinct from an advertising admin and probably an advertising admin should be a separate username distinct from someone's full member username and should not need all the powers of a full member only the various powers relating to ads.

Etc for other separations of function.

-MarkM-

[cexylikepie]

I don't even recall what default ad-categories it came with.

What categories do we need?

-MarkM-

Some basic categories to start with:
Writing: Fiction
Writing: Non-Fiction
Art

Then just look through DevTome and use the categories there to create sub categories.

Anyone got any better ideas?

ThinkI

hey man i just read your "earn devcoins by doing things you enjoy" article and it was great! i've had a devtome link in my sig for a while now, but did not know i could get shares from it. Can you explain how i would do this please?

EDIT: i think i figured it out

[markm]

Some basic categories to start with:
Writing: Fiction
Writing: Non-Fiction
Art

Then just look through DevTome and use the categories there to create sub categories.

Anyone got any better ideas?

ThinkI

It doesn't seem to have sub-categories.

Each category has a parent, but i do not seem to be able to change the parent from "Main category" to, e.g., "Products" or "Services"...

Oops never mind, I found out how to do it...

Trying to separate fiction from non-fiction is I think too awkward to attempt, because a large part (or what used once upon a time to be a large part, anyway) of Devtome's content directly involves the whole fourth wall and what is considered fiction by who kind of stuff.

Earth is a fictional planet, for example, according to various other planets, most of whom are regarded themselves by most inhabitants of Earth as fictional...

-MarkM-

[dalamar96]

Trying to separate fiction from non-fiction is I think too awkward to attempt, because a large part (or what used once upon a tiem to be a large part, anyway) of Devtome's content directly involves the whole fourth wall and what is considered fiction by who kind of stuff.

Earth is a fictional planet, for example, according to various other planets, most of whom are regarded themselves by most inhabitants of Earth as fictiional...

-MarkM-

Now you're over thinking it