[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[melodiem]

I woke up with an idea but its just in thought stage.

Its about "dumping" DEVC on the market and the effect that has on value.

Im not a money market expert but from what I understand, DVC needs to maintain a certain value if it is going to be an effective way to pay developers/creators. Its a given that writers on devtome are going to cash out their DVC..peeps gotta eat, but what if we could somehoe slow the impact on the market?

So, my idea is a fund for developers/creators to be able to exchange their DVC for cash and purchase DVC for cash.

DVC purchased can be held and released to the market in a controlled way over the month (when prices are up?) and cash purchased with DVC could be used to purchase more DVC, creating a fund to pay for the costs of running the fund and (as it grew enough) to fund bounties for future works.

This would require an initial pool of DVC and cash (investors?) and I dont know how to make that profitable for them yet, but Im still thinking The fact that this could stabilise the price of DVC might be enough? not sure.

I am pretty sure Ive found the software to make this work but I don't have the knowledge to get this whole thing right and I dont even know if this is something the community wants or would support...its just an idea...still thinking, but input would be gratefully received.

[Flam]

...

So please the next time you draw (easy) conclusions maybe think about more than one cause for a fact first. It may help you overall.

Challenge accepted. I needed something to do this evening. I'll start by parsing every duplicate from every article you've written =)

I don't and normally would not do this. However, gigantic walls of text drive me insane. Three lines, that's all you need to make any point.

I've never been paid once in my professional career for a work in progress. Asking to be paid for a work in progress isn't just reprehensive, it's a cheat. That kind of laziness is just mistaking kindness for weakness.

I don't know how you came with the term "work in progress" here. Again it's a bad way to use logic to try to discredit me. The funny thing is if you come to me with sophism it will back fire at you as follows: I post my paper when I judge them readable and decent to me and the readers. So it's not a work in progress. The beauty of internet gives me the opportunity to not consider what I post as a final work. And that's where it will back fire at  you a bit. It's not because I post something that meet the requirements of devtome that I won't improve it later. So here I return your poor arguement against you. Some times I'm adding more words yep, sometimes i'm rewriting things. Sometimes I'm even deleteing some sentences i don't like. This take me time and it doesn't improve my word count. Actually I'm updating my olds guide by putting some images to illustrate each skill. It accounts for 7*10 words. It takes me way more time to do that than to simply write 70 words. Call me an abuser again. You can point my mistake and I wasn't dening anything here. You can say it's some kind of cheating, you are right. You can't easily say that I had the intention of cheating. I can provide even more elements that will say I'm clearly not. I suspect you having bad intentions against me when you distort my words to try to make a point. Sorry for you but what you call a "work is progress" here is perfectionism.

[ranlo]

I woke up with an idea but its just in thought stage.

Its about "dumping" DEVC on the market and the effect that has on value.

Im not a money market expert but from what I understand, DVC needs to maintain a certain value if it is going to be an effective way to pay developers/creators. Its a given that writers on devtome are going to cash out their DVC..peeps gotta eat, but what if we could somehoe slow the impact on the market?

So, my idea is a fund for developers/creators to be able to exchange their DVC for cash and purchase DVC for cash.

DVC purchased can be held and released to the market in a controlled way over the month (when prices are up?) and cash purchased with DVC could be used to purchase more DVC, creating a fund to pay for the costs of running the fund and (as it grew enough) to fund bounties for future works.

This would require an initial pool of DVC and cash (investors?) and I dont know how to make that profitable for them yet, but Im still thinking The fact that this could stabilise the price of DVC might be enough? not sure.

I am pretty sure Ive found the software to make this work but I don't have the knowledge to get this whole thing right and I dont even know if this is something the community wants or would support...its just an idea...still thinking, but input would be gratefully received.

I love the idea but I'm not sure how to make it work. There was (or is?) a similar app for Bitcoin, that works in a way that is like this but different. Essentially what that app does is takes the amount of money you deposit and you will ALWAYS have that much, such that:

*You deposit $100 when BTC is $100 each - you have 1 BTC
*BTC goes down to $50 each - you have 2 BTC
*BTC goes up to $200 each - you have 0.5 BTC

When you make a withdrawal/payment, it is based on how much you had deposited. So your value relative to BTC never goes up or down; it is static.

[dalamar96]

I woke up with an idea but its just in thought stage.

Its about "dumping" DEVC on the market and the effect that has on value.

Im not a money market expert but from what I understand, DVC needs to maintain a certain value if it is going to be an effective way to pay developers/creators. Its a given that writers on devtome are going to cash out their DVC..peeps gotta eat, but what if we could somehoe slow the impact on the market?

So, my idea is a fund for developers/creators to be able to exchange their DVC for cash and purchase DVC for cash.

DVC purchased can be held and released to the market in a controlled way over the month (when prices are up?) and cash purchased with DVC could be used to purchase more DVC, creating a fund to pay for the costs of running the fund and (as it grew enough) to fund bounties for future works.

This would require an initial pool of DVC and cash (investors?) and I dont know how to make that profitable for them yet, but Im still thinking The fact that this could stabilise the price of DVC might be enough? not sure.

I am pretty sure Ive found the software to make this work but I don't have the knowledge to get this whole thing right and I dont even know if this is something the community wants or would support...its just an idea...still thinking, but input would be gratefully received.

I love the idea but I'm not sure how to make it work. There was (or is?) a similar app for Bitcoin, that works in a way that is like this but different. Essentially what that app does is takes the amount of money you deposit and you will ALWAYS have that much, such that:

*You deposit $100 when BTC is $100 each - you have 1 BTC
*BTC goes down to $50 each - you have 2 BTC
*BTC goes up to $200 each - you have 0.5 BTC

When you make a withdrawal/payment, it is based on how much you had deposited. So your value relative to BTC never goes up or down; it is static.

I like this idea too, but the static thing doesn't make sense to me. I will have to do some math, but most of what will need to happen is offsetting volume at various levels to make sure the coins stay around a certain level. Not quite sure how to make that happen, but I am sure someone on walstreet has figured it out

[tenthirtyone]

So here is flam's data dump:

http://pastebin.com/FDmGKHmD

All I did was scrape the pages. Then Sort alphabetically and take out anything devtome puts on the page. I tried to remove the majority of your copy & paste titles (in fact I removed the majority of them) but I got fed up and moved on.

When I run wc on the alphabetized dump file it returns 32,580 words. When I hit it with uniq it goes down to 30359 (NOTE: This means you have 2000+ words that, when broken in to their own lines, are identical). That was a big catch but still felt low, especially with all the copy & paste I manually removed.

So I got creative. I took the alphabetized list and I looked at just the first 10 characters of each line. My belief was that your "template" is actually the majority of your word score.

I think I was right. Line count is: 2972,  uniq line count is: 2256. A difference of 700+. That means at least 1400 of lines I broke out of the data dump start the exact same way, saying the exact same thing.

Either you have OCD or you are just copying and pasting, changing enough wordage to make it appear unique at first.

If anyone has a problem with this, admittedly, rudimentary analysis I invite you to take a look at the data set I included in the beginning of the post and check for yourself.

(As a LoL player since beta I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of abilities/gains per level and descriptions you include are copy & paste too.)

[melodiem]

I love the idea but I'm not sure how to make it work. There was (or is?) a similar app for Bitcoin, that works in a way that is like this but different. Essentially what that app does is takes the amount of money you deposit and you will ALWAYS have that much, such that:

*You deposit $100 when BTC is $100 each - you have 1 BTC
*BTC goes down to $50 each - you have 2 BTC
*BTC goes up to $200 each - you have 0.5 BTC

When you make a withdrawal/payment, it is based on how much you had deposited. So your value relative to BTC never goes up or down; it is static.

Ok, I can see how that would work..If you bought at $100, then right now you would have around 0.12 BTC? ($100 worth of BTC, not BTC worth $100)

This could work in the same setting, but maybe more use for the investors than the users. (ie: by supporting the fund for $100 they will always have $100 worth of DVC to pull out?) Possibly with a bonus plan that increases the longer they leave the funds there?

I picture a really simple interface for the users...users deposit DVC or cash and get DVC or cash in return. From that point it gets complex lol

I will have my first Devtome payout this month so maybe I can start building the pool with (some) of that (yes I have rent to pay too!) but will have to have it at a pretty solid working stage before I can expect other investors..and it still an idea

[ranlo]

I love the idea but I'm not sure how to make it work. There was (or is?) a similar app for Bitcoin, that works in a way that is like this but different. Essentially what that app does is takes the amount of money you deposit and you will ALWAYS have that much, such that:

*You deposit $100 when BTC is $100 each - you have 1 BTC
*BTC goes down to $50 each - you have 2 BTC
*BTC goes up to $200 each - you have 0.5 BTC

When you make a withdrawal/payment, it is based on how much you had deposited. So your value relative to BTC never goes up or down; it is static.

Ok, I can see how that would work..If you bought at $100, then right now you would have around 0.12 BTC? ($100 worth of BTC, not BTC worth $100)

This could work in the same setting, but maybe more use for the investors than the users. (ie: by supporting the fund for $100 they will always have $100 worth of DVC to pull out?) Possibly with a bonus plan that increases the longer they leave the funds there?

I picture a really simple interface for the users...users deposit DVC or cash and get DVC or cash in return. From that point it gets complex lol

I will have my first Devtome payout this month so maybe I can start building the pool with (some) of that (yes I have rent to pay too!) but will have to have it at a pretty solid working stage before I can expect other investors..and it still an idea

Yep, you got it down. The investor platform would be a bit different, but in terms of maintaining value in all the coins I brought it up since they both do that (just in different methods and for different purposes -- the app does it in the reverse, maintaining USD->Coin value, whereas we want to do Coin->USD value).

[Flam]

But dumping isn't just related to pre-mining.

Mostly it has to do with just tellign an exchange "sell these" without telling it "at no less a price than ______" (fill in the lowest price you are willing to accept).

Basically if you sell to an existing buy order you consume buy side depth, but if you instead place a sell order on the sell side buyers have to buy from you instead of you selling to them, and it is the sell side not the buy side of the order books that gets consumed, so the price used by all the profitability sides market cap sites and so on is not driven down.

Dumping is thus smply dumping your coins onto the buyers instead of placing an offer on the sell side waiting for them to come to you.

Often there is a large gap aka "spread" between the highest buy offer and the lowest sell offer, so you often get a significant amount more for your coins by placing them on the sell side too, as you are above the "spread" instead of driving the bottom of the "sread" even further downward.

-MarkM-

There is a misconception here. There is no dump other than the one I described. I already said it that you call it a dump because you are holding shares. And you are thinking about the economy from your point of view and not globaly. The actual price of the market is the right price and it's the case at anytime. Anything else is hope and speculation. Someone who sell devcoin as he earns them is not a dumper. What  if I am able to pay my rent in devcoin directly ? Am I still dumping ? I don't think so. So some guys come then trade DVC to BTC then trade BTC to usd then pay for things. And they are absolutely right. I don't know you but if you are a pure speculator you have to admit that some guys are not and it's totally fine.
I saw this case not so long ago on this forum about 25M dvc sold at his lowest at the time something like 0.0003 usd. Almost everyone laughed at the guy and called him a noob dumper etc... The history proven that it wasn't a good move in a nutshell but The guys here still don't know anything about this guy. Maybe he had an issue in his life and he had to sell everything or maybe he is a super trader and he switched his DVC to dogecoin and/or moon coin and he is now the one laughing, reading this thread back. Again for any fact many causes foreseeable...

[melodiem]

So here is flam's data dump:

Tenthirtyone, the cool thing about any wiki is that you are encouraged to improve pages and add knowledge to articles you feel you can improve..all that time spent copy/pasting and criticising the work, could have been spent fixing it up and making Devtome better. (I am assuming this is your agenda as it was the original point of your post about the quality of certain articles)

It seems you both write about the same topic, could you work together and maybe this would also help Flam with his English writing at the same time? (also improving the overall quality of Devtome)

It is a collaborative work and I am pretty sure your word count is about the words you type on your account, not the articles you write them on. (can someone verify this is how it works or am I doing it wrong?)

[sidhujag]

So here is flam's data dump:

http://pastebin.com/FDmGKHmD

All I did was scrape the pages. Then Sort alphabetically and take out anything devtome puts on the page. I tried to remove the majority of your copy & paste titles (in fact I removed the majority of them) but I got fed up and moved on.

When I run wc on the alphabetized dump file it returns 32,580 words. When I hit it with uniq it goes down to 30359 (NOTE: This means you have 2000+ words that, when broken in to their own lines, are identical). That was a big catch but still felt low, especially with all the copy & paste I manually removed.

So I got creative. I took the alphabetized list and I looked at just the first 10 characters of each line. My belief was that your "template" is actually the majority of your word score.

I think I was right. Line count is: 2972,  uniq line count is: 2256. A difference of 700+. That means at least 1400 of lines I broke out of the data dump start the exact same way, saying the exact same thing.

Either you have OCD or you are just copying and pasting, changing enough wordage to make it appear unique at first.

If anyone has a problem with this, admittedly, rudimentary analysis I invite you to take a look at the data set I included in the beginning of the post and check for yourself.

(As a LoL player since beta I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of abilities/gains per level and descriptions you include are copy & paste too.)

It does seem like templating, and im not sure this should be allowed, atleast pay the unique line count and not the difference?

[sidhujag]

I woke up with an idea but its just in thought stage.

Its about "dumping" DEVC on the market and the effect that has on value.

Im not a money market expert but from what I understand, DVC needs to maintain a certain value if it is going to be an effective way to pay developers/creators. Its a given that writers on devtome are going to cash out their DVC..peeps gotta eat, but what if we could somehoe slow the impact on the market?

So, my idea is a fund for developers/creators to be able to exchange their DVC for cash and purchase DVC for cash.

DVC purchased can be held and released to the market in a controlled way over the month (when prices are up?) and cash purchased with DVC could be used to purchase more DVC, creating a fund to pay for the costs of running the fund and (as it grew enough) to fund bounties for future works.

This would require an initial pool of DVC and cash (investors?) and I dont know how to make that profitable for them yet, but Im still thinking The fact that this could stabilise the price of DVC might be enough? not sure.

I am pretty sure Ive found the software to make this work but I don't have the knowledge to get this whole thing right and I dont even know if this is something the community wants or would support...its just an idea...still thinking, but input would be gratefully received.

But developers get paid in shares not dvc, the shares result in dvc which is volatile based on the number of people submitting that round... so there is never any stability in terms of fiat amounts people recieve, but there is stability in terms of fiat if devcoin rises to account for the higher number of shares... that is something that we may see going forward if we increase the number of writers/developers with quality content/applications. If we focus on quality, we will see good results. I think once we get around to invoices/contracts etc it is prudent that static value is considered, maybe held as collateral through the mechanism you describe so that people aren't left hanging when there is a crash for example.... its fair to both parties... if price rises one side benefits more than others, same as crashing. Essentially like commodity producers hedging with contracts on the futures exchange.

[Flam]

So here is flam's data dump:

http://pastebin.com/FDmGKHmD

All I did was scrape the pages. Then Sort alphabetically and take out anything devtome puts on the page. I tried to remove the majority of your copy & paste titles (in fact I removed the majority of them) but I got fed up and moved on.

When I run wc on the alphabetized dump file it returns 32,580 words. When I hit it with uniq it goes down to 30359 (NOTE: This means you have 2000+ words that, when broken in to their own lines, are identical). That was a big catch but still felt low, especially with all the copy & paste I manually removed.

So I got creative. I took the alphabetized list and I looked at just the first 10 characters of each line. My belief was that your "template" is actually the majority of your word score.

I think I was right. Line count is: 2972,  uniq line count is: 2256. A difference of 700+. That means at least 1400 of lines I broke out of the data dump start the exact same way, saying the exact same thing.

Either you have OCD or you are just copying and pasting, changing enough wordage to make it appear unique at first.

If anyone has a problem with this, admittedly, rudimentary analysis I invite you to take a look at the data set I included in the beginning of the post and check for yourself.

(As a LoL player since beta I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of abilities/gains per level and descriptions you include are copy & paste too.)

Oh well what is ocd ? The duplicated lines from summoner spells are still here. I let the admins doing their work but for the other things I'm fine with it.
You can think it's standardised at some point but it's not copy paste as you say. For the skill desrciption  copy/paste accusation  go on it's what that takes me the most of my time. No hero have the same value from their skills it will hard to copy paste anything here.

[Flam]

Another thing about the copy paste accusation  for the skills

One of the "bad habits" I have is to post my article first then I read them once or twice as I don't like to do this from the preview and then I correct the spelling on my own. I do this with the goal to learn and improve. Only after this I put my article in a word processor for a clean paper. So please check all the old versions I posted correcting my spelling and grammar many times and tell me it's copy paste here too.

[melodiem]

one way to ensure quality content is what markm said about writing what had been requested by someone else. This way they get paid for writing stuff someone wants to read and is willing to pay small fee for.

I was advertising on here and Reddit, to write up Bio's for developers/artists on Devtome, (also to give me fresh material) but then I got a message from a Reddit reader saying it wasn't right to charge people to write on Devtome because Devtome pay me...so I stopped, focussing on reviews instead. Its a moral grey area I think, I didn't mean to break any rules, and to be honest wasn't sure what they were.....but easier to stop than get harassed.

Is this what you mean, or do you mean something different?

[ThinkI]

So here is flam's data dump:

http://pastebin.com/FDmGKHmD

All I did was scrape the pages. Then Sort alphabetically and take out anything devtome puts on the page. I tried to remove the majority of your copy & paste titles (in fact I removed the majority of them) but I got fed up and moved on.

When I run wc on the alphabetized dump file it returns 32,580 words. When I hit it with uniq it goes down to 30359 (NOTE: This means you have 2000+ words that, when broken in to their own lines, are identical). That was a big catch but still felt low, especially with all the copy & paste I manually removed.

So I got creative. I took the alphabetized list and I looked at just the first 10 characters of each line. My belief was that your "template" is actually the majority of your word score.

I think I was right. Line count is: 2972,  uniq line count is: 2256. A difference of 700+. That means at least 1400 of lines I broke out of the data dump start the exact same way, saying the exact same thing.

Either you have OCD or you are just copying and pasting, changing enough wordage to make it appear unique at first.

If anyone has a problem with this, admittedly, rudimentary analysis I invite you to take a look at the data set I included in the beginning of the post and check for yourself.

(As a LoL player since beta I'm going to go out on a limb and say the majority of abilities/gains per level and descriptions you include are copy & paste too.)

I had a quick look at this and I think some of the duplication you are measuring is due to the type of content. i.e. There is a lot of identical data, shared between the characters, being described. This is a failure of the Game not the author. I do not play the game and so I could be wrong here.
Similarly the titles of sections will tend to be the same since the documents are about the same thing (I guess).

These issues may be more obvious because the other content is not easily accessible to a native English speaker. I have had a lot of experience reading English work by non-native English speakers and it can be quite painful to unravel. Typically the same bad sentence structure is repeated over and over because the author only knows a few ways of expressing themselves. Given the content I would expect this to be painfully obvious to someone who knows what they are looking at.

So yes there is evidence of templates but they are a product of the language skills of the author as much as anything else. Combine this with the subject matter which seems to have large amounts of identical data in it and I can understand why you would complain.

If this were a native English speaker then I would suggest they work more on the differences between characters in order to give each document some originality. Since it is not a native English speaker I would suggest they also pick up some story books for an age range they are comfortable reading and look at how the author changes the sentence structure to make the story flow in a more interesting way. In this way they can increase the number of ways they have of expressing themselves and reduce the template feel of the documents. I would also suggest they read their work aloud, as if they were talking to a friend about the subject, and changing it to improve the flow and pick up their enthusiasm for the subject matter.

So the question is, should we penalize people because they are not native English speakers or should we help them improve there English?
This fellow seems willing to improve.

ThinkI

[weisoq]

I'll repost what I said before, because I assumed that would clarify progress to the positive. Apparently not.

On those guides:
1) It's certainly a template, but that doesn't make it plagiarism.
2) This writer has been completely open about what he's doing and asking whether repetition or template is allowed for the purpose of explanations - finding the best way to do it is ongoing.
3) The plan was to have a top-page and series of sub pages with references to avoid duplication.
4) I haven't had time to revist this recently due to other issues and pure plagiarism in other articles, but will do.

Flam has been totally communicative through the process. We can debate the utility of 'works in progress' but I would urge any devtome-warriors with time to browse to pick through other writings - there are several on a different plane of issues to these.

[ThinkI]

one way to ensure quality content is what markm said about writing what had been requested by someone else. This way they get paid for writing stuff someone wants to read and is willing to pay small fee for.

I was advertising on here and Reddit, to write up Bio's for developers/artists on Devtome, (also to give me fresh material) but then I got a message from a Reddit reader saying it wasn't right to charge people to write on Devtome because Devtome pay me...so I stopped, focussing on reviews instead. Its a moral grey area I think, I didn't mean to break any rules, and to be honest wasn't sure what they were.....but easier to stop than get harassed.

Is this what you mean, or do you mean something different?

I think the distinction is:

• If you choose to write something about someone then they have no control over the content so should not be expected to pay for it.
• If You are commissioned by someone to write something then they will expect control of the content and they should pay for this control.
• If the content is published under the Open Source license then you can put it on DevTome.

The fact that DevTome also pays you is irrelevant.
However in the future I expect DevTome to pay less for the word count of content you were paid to produce.

So yes this is the intention: to help authors get paid in DevCoin for work and so get people using DevCoin.

Does anyone see this differently?

ThinkI

[Flam]

As I didn't saw this post from weisoq and I wasn't going to involve him if he wasn't writing about this here, now I have one more thing to say to the accusation.
One of my first guides was a  guide on Dr.Mundo. This character can fill different roles so the gameplay will be totally different but his native "skills" will remain the same. I was on my way to write the second guide on the same character but I was annoyed that I will have to copy/paste an entire paragraph. So I asked weisoq if some Tag or some code existed to cut off a paragraph from the word count script ! Weisoq answered that it didnt existed yet. He said that I will have to put some links from the original page. I wasn't satisfied with this solution as I want any guide to be a "stand alone" and so to gather the whole information on the same page. So in the end I didn't wrote the second guide at all as it will not be as "reader friendly" as I want. Maybe I will do it later with the actual solution. But i will be happy to copy paste my skill description and cut it off the count if this solution is available some day.
Weisoq also helped me a lot when I started here he gave me some guidelines to improve my quality so he may testify that I take many time to do the things right and I' m not here to abuse the project.

[Unthinkingbit]

..
Yes right now demand outstrips supply regardless of devtome because of volume in exchanges but it would be better if there were more writers providing quality content.. one way to ensure quality content is what markm said about writing what had been requested by someone else. This way they get paid for writing stuff someone wants to read and is willing to pay small fee for. This will drive reading traffic and this ad revenue. The end goal is for devtome to not only sustain itself financially but give back by providing profits from ads and buy dvc at market with that profit.

We did have a Stories and Questions thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252709.0

A lot of people liked the idea, but I was the only person who ever bought a story When we're using the new forum, we'll try it again.

[dalamar96]

As I didn't saw this post from weisoq and I wasn't going to involve him if he wasn't writing about this here I have one more thing to say to the accusation.
On of my first guide was a  guide on Dr.Mundo. This character can fill different roles so the gameplay will be totally different but his native "skills" will remain the same. I was on my way to write the second guide on the same character but I was annoyed that I will have to copy/paste an entire paragraph. So I asked weisoq if some Tag or some code existed to cut off  a paragraph from the word count script! Weisoq answered that it didnt existed yet. He said that I will have to put some links from the original page. I wasn't satisfied with this solution as I want any guide to be a "stand alone" and so to gather the whole information on the same page. So in the end i didn't wrote the second guide at all as it will not be as "reader friendly" as I want. Maybe I will do it later with the actual solution. But i will be happy to copy paste my skill description and cut it off the count if this solution is able some day.
Weisoq also helped me a lot when I started here he gave me guideline to improve my quality so he may testify that I take many time to do the things right and I' m not here to abuse the project.

Good on ya Flam Glad you went to someone with it instead of just taking advantage of the situation.