ASICMINER Speculation Thread

[talnted]

Good time to scoop up shares I take it

if you're in the US, I recommend buying direct shares.

I can always buy on havelock and withdraw cant I?

Correct.. 50 share minimum for a free transfer.  Less then 50 costs .25 btc

[weaknesswaran]

Good time to scoop up shares I take it

if you're in the US, I recommend buying direct shares.

I can always buy on havelock and withdraw cant I?

Correct.. 50 share minimum for a free transfer.  Less then 50 costs .25 btc

One withdrawl is free each month

[freedomno1]

TAT.ASICMINER BTCT.co UPDATE

Due to technical issues, we unfortunately cannot facilitate migrations of TAT.ASICMINER shares to Bitfunder. BTCT.co shareholders MUST use an account at HavelockInvestments.com

If you haven't already, please RESUBMIT your transfer request and include your HAVELOCK account email address.

We apologize for the inconvenience, but this is due to a technical limitation with Bitfunder's ability to import users. You MUST choose Havelock.

Also, please note that all of these migration issues and exchange changes may cause a delay in the issuance of dividends.

Havelocks going to see a lot more shares

[romerun]

What're the catches of AM1 in Havelock? Any dividend/tranferin/out fee? Any limitation to transfer out? etc

[elasticband]

hmmmm 

[helixone]

What're the catches of AM1 in Havelock? Any dividend/tranferin/out fee? Any limitation to transfer out? etc

From the prospectus: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM1

- Each AM1 share has the right to 100% of its respective dividends. There are no asset management fees for AM1 shares.
- There is no fee to import shares. There is no minimum quantity for importing shares. (With multiple import sources, including at the time of writing the other existing passthroughs.)
- One transfer OUT of AM1 will be processed free once per month per account. Subsequent transfers within the same month OUT of AM1 are subject to a fee of 0.25 BTC for transfers of 49 shares or less.
- Transfers OUT of AM1 are always free for any transfer of 50 shares or more.
- Export requests to Friedcat will be submitted within 48 hours of receiving your shares.

This all seems very favorable when compared to either the btct or bitfunder passthroughs (especially bitfunder).

The only "catches" it seems are that the issuer reserves the the following rights:

1. To change schedule of dividends to be in line with any changes in schedule the underlying asset may enact.
2. To change the % of board mining profits withheld if expenses, like electricity, are not covered by the 15% portion being withheld.
3. To make changes to this contract that represent the best interests of its shareholders.
4. To correct and clarify any gross errors or details herein that may prove to be open to misinterpretation.
5. To discontinue import services.
6. To refuse abusive requests of the import/export services offered.

Right now there are basically two places (other than OTC) to trade whole shares. Havelock and bitfunder (G.ASICMINER-PT).

Despite explicit rights in the prospectus, G.ASICMINER-PT's operators have not been allowing share imports OR exports for the past couple of months, so I'd say that it's seems that Havelock is the only game in town for shareholders that want to trade whole shares, and still have the opportunity to export to direct shares. I would also say that it seems inevitable, that over the next few weeks that AM1 will grow to become the largest passthrough.

-helixone

[_mr_e]

Where are my dividends??? Havelock has still not paid out and Wednesday is over... No word from anyone, what is going on?

[BitThink]

Where are my dividends??? Havelock has still not paid out and Wednesday is over... No word from anyone, what is going on?

Delayed due to transferring PT from BTCT to HaveLock.

[supert]

Where are my dividends??? Havelock has still not paid out and Wednesday is over... No word from anyone, what is going on?

Delayed due to transferring PT from BTCT to HaveLock.

I'm still waiting on Burnside to do my transfer to direct from 27th Sept. So don't hold your breath.

[Lohoris]

Making NO money or losing money is a common thing. Making money is a miracle. When someone is making money, that means others are losing money.

This is plain wrong.
Either it is zero-sum, or it isn't.
Turns out it isn't.
Value can be created and destroyed.

If I have a bottle and I break it, I've likely destroyed value.

If I take a canvas and paint something, I've possibly created value: who buys my painting has less money but has one painting worth that much money (if the trade was fair), and now I have one less empty canvas and some money.

[Lohoris]

Can you tell me where I can buy short positon on AM? love to know.

You can buy PUTs.
How can you know everything but not this?

Of course, now that there isn't btct anymore, buying PUTs might be tricky.

[conspirosphere.tk]

This is plain wrong.
Either it is zero-sum, or it isn't.
Turns out it isn't.
Value can be created and destroyed.

until they keep printing they are doing both.


zero-sum or not, someone got raped
[sorry for the OT]

[huhai0978]

Can you tell me where I can buy short positon on AM? love to know.

You can buy PUTs.
How can you know everything but not this?

Of course, now that there isn't btct anymore, buying PUTs might be tricky.

I definitely know PUT option. Even BTCT is still there, it doesn't help much. The options on BTCT are insane most of the time.
If you are a hardcore AM fanboy, I can offer you a better deal. I keep your AM shares for 3 month. I pay you 2x the weekly dividend,  whatevev it is. I return the AM shares back to you in Dec.
How about this deal?

[supert]

You are just plain wrong.
We are talking about money, not commodities, not the value you are referring to.
If your knowledge of money comes from your economics books, you are doomed. Money is a zero-sum game. It's like the energy. It's conserved. You cannot create energy out of nowhere. Central banks can print money, but no one believes that they "create money". They simply take money from one man's pocket and put it into another man's pocket. Money is conserved. Your economics books are wrong.

You are completely wrong. In fact you are not even getting as far as being wrong.

Money (spendable units of account) is not conserved. It is created/destroyed by extension and repayment of credit, both public (govt spending vs taxation) and private (in the banking system and money markets).  Base money (created by the central bank) is a very small part of total money + credit. Example: I loan you $100 and you give me an IOU redeemable on demand. If your credit is known to be good, that IOU is tradeable for $98, say. That is an extra $98 of credit-money come into existence.

Also, you are confusing value and money. Value is most certainly not conserved. Example: if I run my car into my living room, I have destroyed value (though no money has changed hands).

Also, classical economics books DO assume (wrongly) money is conserved (for a great detailed explanation of this, read Mirowski's "More Heat Than Light").

Bitcoin is kind-of conserved because there is no credit economy to speak of.

[supert]

Can you tell me where I can buy short positon on AM? love to know.

You can buy PUTs.
How can you know everything but not this?

Of course, now that there isn't btct anymore, buying PUTs might be tricky.

I definitely know PUT option. Even BTCT is still there, it doesn't help much. The options on BTCT are insane most of the time.
If you are a hardcore AM fanboy, I can offer you a better deal. I keep your AM shares for 3 month. I pay you 2x the weekly dividend,  whatevev it is. I return the AM shares back to you in Dec.
How about this deal?

Tempting but counterparty risk is too great for me.

How about you just give me 2x the weekly dividend?

[Lohoris]

I definitely know PUT option. Even BTCT is still there, it doesn't help much. The options on BTCT are insane most of the time.
If you are a hardcore AM fanboy, I can offer you a better deal. I keep your AM shares for 3 month. I pay you 2x the weekly dividend,  whatevev it is. I return the AM shares back to you in Dec.
How about this deal?

Just stating you are wrong does not make me an AM fanboy, and I obviously would be insane to just "hand over" my shares to you, random passerby.

If you want to buy PUTs you could do like vycyd did: you post your offer, someone might "accept" and write such a PUT, and you go buy that PUT. Worked pretty well for him, but that was before the crash.
Obviously if you think price will drop so much in 3 months, you might be able to find someone to write them.
Not me, not anymore.

[g83]

SELL SELL SELL

[huhai0978]

Not me, not anymore.

So you did write PUT for vycyd. Does that hurt?  lol.

[Lohoris]

Not me, not anymore.

So you did write PUT for vycyd. Does that hurt?  lol.

No, it doesn't, actually.

I mostly see it as me playing against him and he winning, and that's very good: who played best, won, and that's great. At least money went to someone who deserved it, instead of to some bank or politician.

Or you can say I've paid him to learn a lesson, there are much more expensive lessons out there.

Either way, it's been quite good.

(obviously not as good as getting it right, but better to fail here were the amount are relatively low, than failing much bigger later)

[supert]

(... As trolls go, much less classy than vycid, I have to say...)