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Author Topic: ASICMINER Speculation Thread  (Read 808627 times)
Vexual
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September 08, 2013, 07:25:47 AM
Last edit: September 08, 2013, 07:43:20 AM by Vexual
 #2861


Perhaps you are right, and it is something innocuous, but you are definitely wrong not to entertain the possibility he is becoming less forthcoming with shareholder updates for the same reason we saw with Yifu.

This is a game of degrees, not wrong or right. Nobody knows with certainty. You can only evaluate your odds by examining many factors, and this is a factor I think people are overlooking (while getting excited about things that don't matter, like advertisements).

What particular possible similarity with Yifu are you considering?
I think it was you that got most excited about the ads, nutjob.

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Vycid
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September 08, 2013, 08:04:59 AM
 #2862


Perhaps you are right, and it is something innocuous, but you are definitely wrong not to entertain the possibility he is becoming less forthcoming with shareholder updates for the same reason we saw with Yifu.

This is a game of degrees, not wrong or right. Nobody knows with certainty. You can only evaluate your odds by examining many factors, and this is a factor I think people are overlooking (while getting excited about things that don't matter, like advertisements).

What particular possible similarity with Yifu are you considering?
I think it was you that got most excited about the ads, nutjob.

Fewer and fewer updates as the news got worse and worse. That was Yifu's pattern, at least. Just saying - keep your eyes open, metadata is data.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235763.msg3105250#msg3105250

Lohoris
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September 08, 2013, 08:11:41 AM
 #2863

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not
Not sarcasm, I meant it!

(I think you may be one of the people I options from... sorry)
Np, it's like a match, you won, I'm fine with that ; )

Very recently I have been exploring the idea of starting a "short derivatives" platform.
[...]
This market desperately needs adequate opportunities for short interest.
It is nice to give people some opportunity to have short positions, but I don't think this would be the ideal method.
It feels slightly more complex than writing and buying options, and I doubt there are many people who deal in options at all.
I think it would be better to just manage a fund: you collect coins, you invest them as you feel, you give people dividends if you manage to be successful, you take a cut.

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SOSLOVE868
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September 08, 2013, 08:20:22 AM
 #2864


Perhaps you are right, and it is something innocuous, but you are definitely wrong not to entertain the possibility he is becoming less forthcoming with shareholder updates for the same reason we saw with Yifu.

This is a game of degrees, not wrong or right. Nobody knows with certainty. You can only evaluate your odds by examining many factors, and this is a factor I think people are overlooking (while getting excited about things that don't matter, like advertisements).

What particular possible similarity with Yifu are you considering?
I think it was you that got most excited about the ads, nutjob.

Fewer and fewer updates as the news got worse and worse. That was Yifu's pattern, at least. Just saying - keep your eyes open, metadata is data.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235763.msg3105250#msg3105250
Vycid , is that you first time know about FC, he always very quiet...if you like CEO talk a lot , go to get some shares of Activemining,  Ken is 24 HRs online....
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September 08, 2013, 08:21:53 AM
 #2865


Fewer and fewer updates as the news got worse and worse. That was Yifu's pattern, at least. Just saying - keep your eyes open, metadata is data.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235763.msg3105250#msg3105250
Eyes open? You weren't even aware ASICMINER has blades for sale.

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Vycid
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September 08, 2013, 08:26:14 AM
 #2866


Perhaps you are right, and it is something innocuous, but you are definitely wrong not to entertain the possibility he is becoming less forthcoming with shareholder updates for the same reason we saw with Yifu.

This is a game of degrees, not wrong or right. Nobody knows with certainty. You can only evaluate your odds by examining many factors, and this is a factor I think people are overlooking (while getting excited about things that don't matter, like advertisements).

What particular possible similarity with Yifu are you considering?
I think it was you that got most excited about the ads, nutjob.

Fewer and fewer updates as the news got worse and worse. That was Yifu's pattern, at least. Just saying - keep your eyes open, metadata is data.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235763.msg3105250#msg3105250
Vycid , is that you first time know about FC, he always very quiet...if you like CEO talk a lot , go to get some shares of Activemining,  Ken is 24 HRs online....

No. He has RECENTLY become quiet, despite the fact there is just as much to discuss as ever - if not more, given the rise of a huge field of competition.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=49840;sa=showPosts;start=140


Fewer and fewer updates as the news got worse and worse. That was Yifu's pattern, at least. Just saying - keep your eyes open, metadata is data.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235763.msg3105250#msg3105250
Eyes open? You weren't even aware ASICMINER has blades for sale.

Yeah, OK, that invalidates everything else.

At least I double-checked that they were indeed not selling, since I knew I was not sure.

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September 08, 2013, 08:36:39 AM
 #2867

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not
Not sarcasm, I meant it!

(I think you may be one of the people I options from... sorry)
Np, it's like a match, you won, I'm fine with that ; )

Very recently I have been exploring the idea of starting a "short derivatives" platform.
[...]
This market desperately needs adequate opportunities for short interest.
It is nice to give people some opportunity to have short positions, but I don't think this would be the ideal method.
It feels slightly more complex than writing and buying options, and I doubt there are many people who deal in options at all.
I think it would be better to just manage a fund: you collect coins, you invest them as you feel, you give people dividends if you manage to be successful, you take a cut.


Thanks for the kind words.

Based on the input I have been receiving, I will start exploring the possibility. There will be an announcement in the near future one way or another.

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September 08, 2013, 08:38:46 AM
 #2868

Thanks for the kind words.

Based on the input I have been receiving, I will start exploring the possibility. There will be an announcement in the near future one way or another.

Great!

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Vexual
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September 08, 2013, 08:43:10 AM
 #2869

Yeah, OK, that invalidates everything else.

At least I double-checked that they were indeed not selling, since I knew I was not sure.
huh?

how much of this fund will be spent on crack cocaine?

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September 08, 2013, 08:46:10 AM
 #2870

This is a game of degrees, not wrong or right. Nobody knows with certainty. You can only evaluate your odds by examining many factors, and this is a factor I think people are overlooking (while getting excited about things that don't matter, like advertisements).

If I'm evaluating my odds i see an investment for one of the few companies for mining hardware that
- hasn't broken any promises or shipped overdue/shitty products to its customers (compared to most of the rest of the market)
- currently holds 10% of the network hashrate
- didn't take preorders to finance 2nd gen production (compared to every other company on the market)
- doesn't need to brag about data of unfinished products because there's no need for advertising to get preorder money
- has a good (if not the best) brand reputation in the small mining community  

These degrees feel quite good for my taste of security in a wildly speculated high-risk market.

oh and while I'm at it let me evaluate...
user
- is short on AM
- is concerned when AM buys advertising space  Huh
- seems resistant to any positive news and instantly bad-mouthes them.
(irrespictive of the fact that there were no negative news besides growing competition (=based on promises for unreleased products), low divs because of 2nd gen investment and partially low hashrate charts in the last weeks)
- has ridiculous demands for shareholders' comfort from a small startup company (that isn't even given by big companies in a regular market), just to ease his position  Roll Eyes
- not informed on present delievery status of AM's product portfolio
- sometimes has a postcount of more than 50% per page on a speculation thread
- starts to seed doubts on company's reliability without any proof when he runs out of arguments ignoring the fact that he's just adressing fundamental risks that every shareholder should already be aware of in the first place.  
- tends to get an sarcastic undertone after broad criticism and continues preaching his standpoint instead of confessing several flaws in his argumentation to allow a constructive discussion

you really seemed like a good counterbalance at first but shifting focus of a thread by constant posting from a goodlooking hashrate chart and decent news on advertising back to two pages of argumentation for your distorted standpoint is really the icing of the cake.
  
congrats and welcome to my ignorelist (with your rate of being quoted it won't help though)




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September 08, 2013, 08:54:20 AM
 #2871


No. He has RECENTLY become quiet, despite the fact there is just as much to discuss as ever - if not more, given the rise of a huge field of competition.



FC has posted before mentioning that everything is under estimation ,and he will meet his target before what he used planned . Don't you think this information is enough?

if you believing what FC said , then it obviously is enough, you can't ask FC like Ken to stay 24 hours online ,to explaining every single question to every single investors. And I think if you do not believing FC, then even he did explaining everything in detail to you , you might still be suspect about it.

And I think he is really busy to dealing with new data center or 2 gen Chips , since the share price fluctuation actually isn't what he need to concern of. (Because, He won't sell his shares and he isn't consider to issuing more shares.)  Lips sealed

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September 08, 2013, 09:07:07 AM
 #2872

Thank you! Was a great read. Added one more to the list of ignores. Man, he really crapped out in the last few pages. Wonder if good news makes me go crazy (maybe he'd be more useful in the Labcoin thread)
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September 08, 2013, 09:42:08 AM
 #2873

if you like CEO talk a lot , go to get some shares of Activemining,  Ken is 24 HRs online....

you can't ask FC like Ken to stay 24 hours online ,to explaining every single question to every single investors.

You picked a truly terrible example SOS. Ken has not said a meaningful word to his shareholders for well over a month. Did you miss the whole ActM NDA farce?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1707;sa=showPosts

^look for yourself, nothing but "dividend paid" and "sorry, can't talk about it".

FC is fine, don't ever change bro.

Keep clam & hodl on
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September 08, 2013, 09:50:34 AM
 #2874

This is a game of degrees, not wrong or right. Nobody knows with certainty. You can only evaluate your odds by examining many factors, and this is a factor I think people are overlooking (while getting excited about things that don't matter, like advertisements).

If I'm evaluating my odds i see an investment for one of the few companies for mining hardware that
- hasn't broken any promises or shipped overdue/shitty products to its customers (compared to most of the rest of the market)
- currently holds 10% of the network hashrate
- didn't take preorders to finance 2nd gen production (compared to every other company on the market)
- doesn't need to brag about data of unfinished products because there's no need for advertising to get preorder money
- has a good (if not the best) brand reputation in the small mining community  

These degrees feel quite good for my taste of security in a wildly speculated high-risk market.

oh and while I'm at it let me evaluate...
user
- is short on AM
- is concerned when AM buys advertising space  Huh
- seems resistant to any positive news and instantly bad-mouthes them.
(irrespictive of the fact that there were no negative news besides growing competition (=based on promises for unreleased products), low divs because of 2nd gen investment and partially low hashrate charts in the last weeks)
- has ridiculous demands for shareholders' comfort from a small startup company (that isn't even given by big companies in a regular market), just to ease his position  Roll Eyes
- not informed on present delievery status of AM's product portfolio
- sometimes has a postcount of more than 50% per page on a speculation thread
- starts to seed doubts on company's reliability without any proof when he runs out of arguments ignoring the fact that he's just adressing fundamental risks that every shareholder should already be aware of in the first place.  
- tends to get an sarcastic undertone after broad criticism and continues preaching his standpoint instead of confessing several flaws in his argumentation to allow a constructive discussion

you really seemed like a good counterbalance at first but shifting focus of a thread by constant posting from a goodlooking hashrate chart and decent news on advertising back to two pages of argumentation for your distorted standpoint is really the icing of the cake.
  
congrats and welcome to my ignorelist (with your rate of being quoted it won't help though)





Interesting that you would write such a thorough list immediately before introducing me to your ignorelist. That makes the ignorelisting seem more like an attempt to discredit than an actual distaste for the posts.

But we need to go through these one by one, I think, since the accusations do need to be addressed whether you will see the rebuttal or not.

- hasn't broken any promises or shipped overdue/shitty products to its customers (compared to most of the rest of the market)

Hyperbole. Promises have been broken. See here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282910.msg3027585#msg3027585

- currently holds 10% of the network hashrate

Of course. The discussion is about what that is worth.

- didn't take preorders to finance 2nd gen production (compared to every other company on the market)

They also have the luxury of a revenue stream. Ultimately, the source of funding will not impact the quality and competitive positioning of their competiors' products.

- doesn't need to brag about data of unfinished products because there's no need for advertising to get preorder money

Horrible, horrible argument. If AM expects people to hold off on preordering with their competition, they had better release those specs. Every preorder with a competitor is a lost sale.

- has a good (if not the best) brand reputation in the small mining community  

Nobody gives a shit about brand. If you demonstrate the ability to deliver a better deal, that is all it takes. This isn't about the coolest type of sunglasses or cell phone, this is about profit margins.



OK - now on to the personal attacks.

- is short on AM

Honestly, this should increase my credibility. I'm not a sockpuppet, or a burned business partner, or a major holder in the competition. I've actually got money on this, just like you do.

- is concerned when AM buys advertising space  Huh

Don't be obtuse. The reaction of shareholders to the advertising space was the point - the investors are still euphoric about the most mundane things, and that demonstrates that there is quite a way left for AM to fall.

- seems resistant to any positive news and instantly bad-mouthes them. (irrespictive of the fact that there were no negative news besides growing competition (=based on promises for unreleased products), low divs because of 2nd gen investment and partially low hashrate charts in the last weeks)

This is too vague for me to address properly. I wish you'd given examples or something. It honestly seems like you listed bad news in the parentheses, so...

- has ridiculous demands for shareholders' comfort from a small startup company (that isn't even given by big companies in a regular market), just to ease his position  Roll Eyes

If things are going as well as you all think they are, I will lose my shirt if FC comes out with an update.

It is NOT unreasonable to expect this level of updates and feedback from a startup company. Do you have any idea the level of engagement that VC firms typically have with their client startups? Startups are VERY communicative. FC got his VC from the community, but lately he has gone dark.

- not informed on present delievery status of AM's product portfolio

Wow, get fucked. I am now informed - I don't see how this is an issue. I know WHAT AM's products are, and being a little confused about the details of the transition from the old blades to the new blades does not really impact the big picture very much.

Would you ignore another user for this confusion? Ridiculous.

- sometimes has a postcount of more than 50% per page on a speculation thread

Guess it's gonna be kinda quiet in here for you, huh? A lot of people argue with me or ask me questions directly, and I take the time to answer them, which is why I sometimes constitute so many of the posts on a single page.

- starts to seed doubts on company's reliability without any proof when he runs out of arguments ignoring the fact that he's just adressing fundamental risks that every shareholder should already be aware of in the first place.  

"seed doubts on company's reliability"? Where have I questioned 'reliability', exactly? Nor have I run out of arguments, I assure you.

Investors should be aware of the fundamental risks, but it is proven time and time again in this thread that many are not.

- tends to get an sarcastic undertone after broad criticism and continues preaching his standpoint instead of confessing several flaws in his argumentation to allow a constructive discussion

You are right that I can get defensive, which is a flaw and something I am aware of. However, I do not believe I ignore good counterarguments like you are insinuating. Mostly I feel like I can adequately defend my thesis from criticism.

Anyway, cheers, hope this thread improves for you without my posts.

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September 08, 2013, 10:21:20 AM
 #2875



OMG..... Are you ok??? you wrote that many.......this really surprise me a lot...  have you got nothing to do ?You should spent your time on some meaningful things instead to spent that much time on this forum ...life is good... !!!
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September 08, 2013, 10:23:19 AM
 #2876



you can't ask FC like Ken to stay 24 hours online ,to explaining every single question to every single investors.

You picked a truly terrible example SOS. Ken has not said a meaningful word to his shareholders for well over a month. Did you miss the whole ActM NDA farce?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1707;sa=showPosts

^look for yourself, nothing but "dividend paid" and "sorry, can't talk about it".

FC is fine, don't ever change bro.

Sorry , I have been away of this forum for a while, when Active mining back to called AMC , he used to spent lot time online like Vycid right now.

Seems things change quickly in Active mining, the only thing unchanged may be is the 4 Avalon miners are still mining.  Grin
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September 08, 2013, 10:51:59 AM
 #2877

If I may Smiley (sorry to the ignorers)

OK - now on to the personal attacks.
a little melodramatic don't you think?

- is short on AM

Honestly, this should increase my credibility. I'm not a sockpuppet, or a burned business partner, or a major holder in the competition. I've actually got money on this, just like you do.
Increase credibility?  It seems you are trying to manipulate the market by spamming made up bullshit
- is concerned when AM buys advertising space  Huh

Don't be obtuse. The reaction of shareholders to the advertising space was the point - the investors are still euphoric about the most mundane things, and that demonstrates that there is quite a way left for AM to fall.
Euphoric? You dont even know if those posts are by shareholders, and in any case it does not demonstrate that there is quite a way left to fall
- seems resistant to any positive news and instantly bad-mouthes them. (irrespictive of the fact that there were no negative news besides growing competition (=based on promises for unreleased products), low divs because of 2nd gen investment and partially low hashrate charts in the last weeks)

This is too vague for me to address properly. I wish you'd given examples or something. It honestly seems like you listed bad news in the parentheses, so...
If you can't respond to a general statement, ...

- has ridiculous demands for shareholders' comfort from a small startup company (that isn't even given by big companies in a regular market), just to ease his position  Roll Eyes

If things are going as well as you all think they are, I will lose my shirt if FC comes out with an update.

It is NOT unreasonable to expect this level of updates and feedback from a startup company. Do you have any idea the level of engagement that VC firms typically have with their client startups? Startups are VERY communicative. FC got his VC from the community, but lately he has gone dark.
Perhaps Bitfountain is the VC firm here, you are not. Comparing apples and oranges again

- not informed on present delievery status of AM's product portfolio

Wow, get fucked. I am now informed - I don't see how this is an issue. I know WHAT AM's products are, and being a little confused about the details of the transition from the old blades to the new blades does not really impact the big picture very much.

Would you ignore another user for this confusion? Ridiculous.
Because you have spent so much time claiming to be well informed, and hardware sales make up a large proportion of the business.

- sometimes has a postcount of more than 50% per page on a speculation thread

Guess it's gonna be kinda quiet in here for you, huh? A lot of people argue with me or ask me questions directly, and I take the time to answer them, which is why I sometimes constitute so many of the posts on a single page.
I'm not arguing with you, just pointing out flaws in your logic Smiley
- starts to seed doubts on company's reliability without any proof when he runs out of arguments ignoring the fact that he's just adressing fundamental risks that every shareholder should already be aware of in the first place.  

"seed doubts on company's reliability"? Where have I questioned 'reliability', exactly? Nor have I run out of arguments, I assure you. Are any of them sensible?

Investors should be aware of the fundamental risks, but it is proven time and time again in this thread that many are not.
Perhaps they are aware of the risks, but make calculated decisions on their own, without your expert advice.

- tends to get an sarcastic undertone after broad criticism and continues preaching his standpoint instead of confessing several flaws in his argumentation to allow a constructive discussion

You are right that I can get defensive, which is a flaw and something I am aware of. However, I do not believe I ignore good counterarguments like you are insinuating. Mostly I feel like I can adequately defend my thesis from criticism.
If you have an actual disorder, then I apologise for my crack cocaine comment

Anyway, cheers, hope this thread improves for you without my posts.

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September 08, 2013, 01:19:33 PM
 #2878

AM share price is increasing, and Vycid's posts increase.  Coincidence?

I thought we were going to have less of this, yet I just read through 4 pages of mostly Vycid posts from the last 12 hours.   Huh

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September 08, 2013, 02:33:23 PM
 #2879

I think the price still has not broke out of the downtrend, well poor souls that brought AM @ 5ish...
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September 09, 2013, 08:03:58 AM
 #2880

More than 30 bitcents of difference between bitfunder and btc-tc? I understand that fees are lower on btc-tc (and I can see how paying 4-5% more can be worth it if you're a day trader) but are there other reasons?

Imagine for a second you wanted to market sell 5000 shares.  Check the slippage on each exchange and you will have your answer.
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