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Author Topic: ASICMINER Speculation Thread  (Read 808627 times)
Jutarul
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September 07, 2013, 09:47:32 PM
 #2801

So, even if companies average 30% margin long term (I believe it will be much more competitive,  10-20%) it would only take ~3 million market cap across all companies to meet, if not exceed, fair value.
The quoted market cap only takes into account the scarcity of bitcoins and neglects the scarcity of transaction volume. A bitcoin is worth nothing if you can't transact it.

Unfortunately at the moment it is impossible to estimate the net worth of 50GB (max. ~1 year) of blockchain data. In any event, owning mining stocks or equipment is a way to get exposure to that speculative asset (albeit the rapid expansion of network strength depreciates equipment, making companies or intellectual property in that area a safer choice).

Thus, one may argue, a 3 million market cap for mining companies underestimates the long term worth of that sector.

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Vycid
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September 07, 2013, 09:54:01 PM
 #2802

I'd consider starting a hedge fund, but I have this funny feeling that the moment I take someone else's money I'd immediately lose everything and feel like a prick.
Please let us know if you reconsider the idea, it would be quite nice to invest into a fund managed by you!

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not (I think you may be one of the people I options from... sorry), but if it isn't I appreciate the sentiment.

The biggest motivation for me to start a fund is to more easily leverage the short side on BTC securities. That is a significant competitive edge. If the fund has lots of provable assets to cover positions, people might more willingly accept short shares in lieu of direct shares.

Very recently I have been exploring the idea of starting a "short derivatives" platform. The idea is that I would pick up large futures contracts from people seeking major AM positions - so, for example, I would offer to sell someone 100 shares in 6 months at about the current market price - say 2.2 BTC. This is an obligation, not an option, the exchange must occur, so the contracts would only be written with trustworthy individuals and would be partially collateralized in escrow to minimize counterparty risk.

Then I can repackage this as short positions for sale to the public. The derivatives work like this:

Joe opens a 5-share "short" position. The minimum initial margin requirement is 20% of the base share value, plus 0.1 BTC per share. So if the position is opened at 2.2 BTC/share, he has to put in 5 * (0.2 * 2.2 + 0.1) = 2.7 BTC.

Then, say the share price goes up, to 2.5 BTC. Joe's total loss is 0.3 BTC/share, or 1.5 BTC. The margin maintenance requirements are liabilities + 10% of base share price, so 1.5 + 0.1 * 5 * 2.5 = 2.75, which is greater than 2.7 BTC. Joe will get a margin call and will need to either add money or close his position within 24 hours. If the liabilities ever come within 10% of the balance, the position will be closed immediately.

Dividends will be subtracted from available cash, so investors are also responsible for maintaining their balances.

On the other hand, if share prices go down by 0.2 to 2.0 BTC/share, Joe is not obligated to do anything. If he closes his position, he gets 0.2/share, or 1 BTC total (minus some service fee, naturally).

Basically, I want to use futures contracts with major holders to underwrite a kind of short derivative.

All of this would require a robust webapp.

If people are interested in this let me know. This market desperately needs adequate opportunities for short interest.

So, even if companies average 30% margin long term (I believe it will be much more competitive,  10-20%) it would only take ~3 million market cap across all companies to meet, if not exceed, fair value.
The quoted market cap only takes into account the scarcity of bitcoins and neglects the scarcity of transaction volume. A bitcoin is worth nothing if you can't transact it.

Unfortunately at the moment it is impossible to estimate the net worth of 50GB (max. ~1 year) of blockchain data. However, owning mining stocks or equipment is a way to get exposure to that speculative asset (albeit the rapid expansion of network strength depreciates equipment, making companies or intellectual property in that area a safer choice).

Thus, one may argue, a 3 million market cap for mining companies underestimates the long term worth of that sector.

I agree, but I am also ignoring factors like future competition. We cannot say "the companies are collectively worth 3M" if all of the companies that will want a piece of that pie do not exist yet, or have not entered the market yet.

If BTC turns out to be "the big thing", and transaction volumes (and fees) reflect that, that does not necessarily bode well for companies like AM, which might get crushed under the heels of behemoths like Intel or IBM.

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September 08, 2013, 03:29:42 AM
 #2803

Bit of a lucky streak last six hours.

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September 08, 2013, 03:53:03 AM
 #2804

If people are interested in this let me know.
Yes, please setup a separate thread to discuss.
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September 08, 2013, 03:54:26 AM
 #2805

Bit of a lucky streak last six hours.
Nice.
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September 08, 2013, 04:10:37 AM
 #2806

Bit of a lucky streak last six hours.


Just another months, Guys, you should know the answer , it could be 1 PH coming its way or nothing happen.
for whom dump the shares right now , is mean give up its possible future income, for myself I have no reason to  believe that FC will not made his promises.
 
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September 08, 2013, 04:26:56 AM
 #2807

Oh my, ASICMINER, you're making me blush!

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September 08, 2013, 04:58:24 AM
 #2808

Very good average performing last hours..  Cheesy
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September 08, 2013, 05:03:03 AM
 #2809

 Wink https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=284843.msg3105051#msg3105051
I think it's a sign

..Stake.com..   ▄████████████████████████████████████▄
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▀█████▄       ▄█████▀
▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀
..PLAY NOW..
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September 08, 2013, 05:05:11 AM
 #2810

First time ever ,our sex Cat going to post a advertisement over this forum!!!!
It probably be to advertising its 2 Gen chips!!! and new products!~~
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September 08, 2013, 05:08:14 AM
 #2811

Guys what happened to this week's update?  Shocked, Did I miss something? I checked F.C. profile. Nothing.....  Cry

He's working. At this point, a year after the IPO and 2000% growth, you either believe in Friedcat's abilities or you don't.

I don't want any more announcements until new shit is in place and / or ready to sell. I don't need weekly reassurance, and I don't want plans leaking to competitors. I like the opportunities provided by panic and capitulation. I want Friedcat doing what Friedcat does, which is executing better than anyone else in the game.

Bit of a lucky streak last six hours.




i think this counts as a small update.



 Wink

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September 08, 2013, 05:12:12 AM
 #2812

Guys what happened to this week's update?  Shocked, Did I miss something? I checked F.C. profile. Nothing.....  Cry

He's working. At this point, a year after the IPO and 2000% growth, you either believe in Friedcat's abilities or you don't.

I don't want any more announcements until new shit is in place and / or ready to sell. I don't need weekly reassurance, and I don't want plans leaking to competitors. I like the opportunities provided by panic and capitulation. I want Friedcat doing what Friedcat does, which is executing better than anyone else in the game.

Bit of a lucky streak last six hours.




i think this counts as a small update.



 Wink

Uh, so nobody is concerned about the fact that the CEO is choosing to communicate product line updates to his shareholders via advertisements?

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September 08, 2013, 05:15:23 AM
 #2813



Uh, so nobody is concerned about the fact that the CEO is choosing to communicate product line updates to his shareholders via advertisements?
Not at all. That's normally how shareholders find about about products.
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September 08, 2013, 05:25:27 AM
 #2814



Uh, so nobody is concerned about the fact that the CEO is choosing to communicate product line updates to his shareholders via advertisements?
Not at all. That's normally how shareholders find about about products.

No... it's not. They're usually announced at shareholder meetings or industry conferences.

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September 08, 2013, 05:27:23 AM
 #2815



Uh, so nobody is concerned about the fact that the CEO is choosing to communicate product line updates to his shareholders via advertisements?

You are hilarious.
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September 08, 2013, 05:27:27 AM
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Uh, so nobody is concerned about the fact that the CEO is choosing to communicate product line updates to his shareholders via advertisements?
Not at all. That's normally how shareholders find about about products.

No... it's not. They're usually announced at shareholder meetings or industry conferences.

so you're concerned because the company your holding shares of rents advertising space on a forum to reach a potential customergroup?

sorry, this point of view is just ridiculous!!!


oh, i just forgot... Wink

Quote
Disclosure: I am short AM.

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September 08, 2013, 05:27:48 AM
 #2817



Uh, so nobody is concerned about the fact that the CEO is choosing to communicate product line updates to his shareholders via advertisements?
Not at all. That's normally how shareholders find about about products.

No... it's not. They're usually announced at shareholder meetings or industry conferences.

You mean board meetings? What's a shareholder meeting? Honest question, I didn't know there were shareholder meetings for say, people who owned a handful of shares in Facebook or Microsoft.
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September 08, 2013, 05:28:50 AM
 #2818


No... it's not. They're usually announced at shareholder meetings or industry conferences.

Oh, so thats how Apple does it?  I always thought that everyone, including shareholders, found out at the exact same time.

But fuck Apple, what do they know.
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September 08, 2013, 05:29:23 AM
 #2819

Uh, so nobody is concerned about the fact that the CEO is choosing to communicate product line updates to his shareholders via advertisements?
product line update? we don't know that

1VEX7x76pJdreV1nJW8bXpotbCNggDxG5
Vycid
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September 08, 2013, 05:29:50 AM
 #2820


No... it's not. They're usually announced at shareholder meetings or industry conferences.

Oh, so thats how Apple does it?  I always thought that everyone, including shareholders, found out at the exact same time.

But fuck Apple, what do they know.


Uh, yeah, of course everyone finds out at the same time. Anything else would constitute insider trading, genius.

It is NOT done via advertising.

http://www.apple.com/apple-events/

Uh, so nobody is concerned about the fact that the CEO is choosing to communicate product line updates to his shareholders via advertisements?
product line update? we don't know that

Well, considering FC is currently sold out, if it's not new products then it's probably an advertisement for

1) Shares (a legitimate company has no business advertising its shares)

2) Pre-orders (...)

Or I could be wrong, maybe he's looking for franchise partners or something. That would surprise me though - anyone looking to franchise probably already knows about the opportunity.

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