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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 864701 times)
perezoso
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November 19, 2013, 09:43:46 PM

Interesting thought.  Could you point out the MPP clause in the ToS you accepted when purchasing?

What's your point?  

You can go read the MPP yourself if you are confused about it.  

The MPP only guarantees more hashing power (with a cap) it doesn't guarantee an positive ROI.  Guaranteeing a positive ROI would require the MPP to offer unlimited additional hashrate and it clearly indicates it is capped at 400%.  I am not happy about it but a judge (if you want to waste your money and potentially see the inside of the court room in 3-6 months) is going to take a neutral aproach to the reading.  Just because someone "could" be confused isn't the standard of proof.  HashFast could probably have been more "creative" with the language and still win in court.

There is that, and there are also contradictory statements and suggestions, sometimes together in the same document.  And people are rounding these up.

What I've said, and which the trolls consistently misstate is "if there is litigation with Hashfast, it will be about the MPP".   All these legal eagles, proud of how sharp they think they are, especially with interpretation of legal text ... yes, you know the ones...  these guys apparently can't actually read, because they think that "if there is litigation with Hashfast, it will be about the MPP" means, "I'm gonna sue Hashfast because I know I can win a big judgement against them."  

Folks that can't tell the difference between those two statements can go back to English 101, and should definitely reconsider their self-assigned legal credentials.

Anyway, I'm not sure what my personal strategy would be if, at the end of the day, even with the MPP, I still don't ROI.  I would consider joining a lawsuit or arbitration at that time (which isn't yet), if I thought it had a chance, and I don't think it's a cut and dry situation either way. For example, there are indications of what might be called fraud with respect to timing of chip delivery. It's not that time yet, though.  

I think I would mainly think of more creative ways to put pressure on the company.  It's a less than ideal outcome, but, for example, if I feel assured that the company had to spend enough money to counteract bad publicity generated so as to make their sale to me unprofitable for them.... there's a modicum of justice in that.

But as I've taken pains to point out, I still hold out hope that Hashfast will prove themselves to be straight up guys (and gals, I guess), and will proactively address the problem when they ship.  In which case, everybody's happy and Hashfast's reputation is enhanced.
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DeathAndTaxes
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November 19, 2013, 11:15:43 PM

No I understand what you wrote I just think it is completely wrong.  If there is legal action against HashFast it will have absolutely nothing to do with the MPP.  That would be an utterly pointless way to waste a lot of money with absolutely no chance in hell of any positive gain. 
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November 19, 2013, 11:40:47 PM

But as I've taken pains to point out, I still hold out hope that Hashfast will prove themselves to be straight up guys (and gals, I guess), and will proactively address the problem when they ship.
I don't. It's clear for me that they prefer money over reputation to spend on future customers.
Where is _everything_ they promised us, just for example?

I'm the pessimist here, but i sincerely don't understand all of this optimism.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
opentoe
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November 20, 2013, 12:03:26 AM

Whats up with their new call center? Every time I call they take my info down and say they will have someone call me back.

I asked, and the call center isn't even physically located at HF. They are outsourced.

Lots of small get rich quick companies outsource contractors for their call centers. They don't have to worry about anything. Just give the customer some phone number and that's it.


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November 20, 2013, 12:06:58 AM

Are lawsuits liable in situations like this? I've never seen a company sued for not coming through on deadlines or coming up with a product. Now if they refuse to give you a refund then I suggest start your lawsuit right away. I try to follow this thread just to keep up with things, but what is the major issue? HF is having problems getting their product out the door, that I understand, but are they refusing to refund people or something?


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November 20, 2013, 12:08:03 AM

Are lawsuits liable in situations like this? I've never seen a company sued for not coming through on deadlines or coming up with a product. Now if they refuse to give you a refund then I suggest start your lawsuit right away. I try to follow this thread just to keep up with things, but what is the major issue? HF is having problems getting their product out the door, that I understand, but are they refusing to refund people or something?
Yes
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November 20, 2013, 12:20:55 AM

I'm the pessimist here, but i sincerely don't understand all of this optimism.

It's not the optimism, it's realism. Instead of 400-500GHs Nov 1st you're gonna get 400-500GHs Jan 1st and 1500-2000GHs mid February, depending of the final operational GHs these machines will have. You are screwed because first option would get you positive ROI and the second one almost certainly will not (except if Cointerra fails bigtime), but it is not the end of the world. You cross out HashFast from the list of the companies you'll ever deal in your life again, just like you crossed Yifu and you move on. It can be worse, HF can go down and not deliver anything, and you get only practically satoshies through law-suites. Do you think the court will refund you fairly? Do you think the money paid for BabyJets waits in the bank ready to be refunded? I will never, ever consider HF again, no matter how attractive their offers may be in the future, and I certainly hope anyone who was dragged through this by their side will do the same. That's the best you can do and hope that those 2-2.5THs you finally get in February will mine something. Realism, not optimism.
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November 20, 2013, 12:22:21 AM

Well, I suppose I should cross off HashFast as a company to preorder from after reading the last few pages... *sigh*
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November 20, 2013, 12:27:03 AM

It's not the optimism, it's realism. Instead of 400-500GHs Nov 1st you're gonna get 400-500GHs Jan 1st and 1500-2000GHs mid February,
I stopped reading here (will resume later).
Please tell me where it's written that we will receive the MPP in February. It's no-where. No-Where. They are careful not to put that detail no where.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
Kouye
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November 20, 2013, 12:31:09 AM

Well, I suppose I should cross off HashFast as a company to preorder from after reading the last first few pages... *sigh*

Fixed that for you.
There were so many red flags from the start I can't beleive people actually gave them so much credit. Sad

I stopped following pretty early, but did they explain the twitter account deletion thing, by the way?

[OVER] RIDDLES 2nd edition --- this was claimed. Look out for 3rd edition!
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itod
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November 20, 2013, 12:36:26 AM

It's not the optimism, it's realism. Instead of 400-500GHs Nov 1st you're gonna get 400-500GHs Jan 1st and 1500-2000GHs mid February,
I stopped reading here (will resume later).
Please tell me where it's written that we will receive the MPP in February. It's no-where. No-Where. They are careful not to put that detail no where.

What do you want me to tell you? To guarantee you? To wipe off your tears? If they don't give MPP promised on their website as a part of the value of their product, than it may be realistic substance for a law suite. Just maybe, lawyers get into play then, but not before February. So please will you stop this law-suite whining, If you wanna go to the court feel free to do it, but it gets boring reading here 10 times a day people explaining to you it's not rational course of action at this moment, and you constantly repeating same thing day after day like you want HF to go down now. Please stop the whine.
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November 20, 2013, 12:53:52 AM

Maybe i didn't explained myself. The MPP states that you are entitled to 4 times (blabla) the hashrate, but it does not says when you will receive this hashrate.
If received in February (first of, as per MPP, not middle as you say), it's one thing. If received in April, it's a completely different one.

I disagree with everything else you have said. Ignore me if you don't want to read me.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
ninjarobot
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November 20, 2013, 01:04:39 AM

Providing MPP modules to Batch 1 customers at no additional cost and after the sale has been the best thing HF has done so far. I don't understand how you can criticize them about that, much less take them to court. You can pound your chest all you want but this is just not going to happen.

The thing I object to is that MPP was designed to protect against excessive difficulty increases. Not delays.

HF has done nothing to compensate against delays so it is the customers that will pay the price for HF failures.
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November 20, 2013, 01:13:26 AM

...
I stopped following pretty early, but did they explain the twitter account deletion thing, by the way?

Nah, they never did.
And now even Cypherdoc doesn't drop by anymore.  He used to be so enthusiastic...
cedivad
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November 20, 2013, 01:21:11 AM

I bought after the MPP was announced. And the MPP doesn't make them less liars. They sold out batch 1 only thanks to the MPP, please note this point.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
iCEBREAKER
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November 20, 2013, 01:30:16 AM

Providing MPP modules to Batch 1 customers at no additional cost and after the sale has been the best thing HF has done so far. I don't understand how you can criticize them about that, much less take them to court. You can pound your chest all you want but this is just not going to happen.

The thing I object to is that MPP was designed to protect against excessive difficulty increases. Not delays.

HF has done nothing to compensate against delays so it is the customers that will pay the price for HF failures.

To compensate for delays HF is starting the MPP earlier than they have to, on Oct 30 instead of ship date.

They have also upgraded the offer to include complete miniboards instead of raw chips.

These indications of HashFast's good faith demonstrate their commitment to provide customers with the maximum possible value for their BTC. 


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Monero
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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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cedivad
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November 20, 2013, 01:34:11 AM

Actually, they just talked about calculated benefits. From what i read, and my english is bad, they are talking about how much additional processing power you will have. Even if they started to calculate that at the shipping time, customers would be entitled to 4 times the hashrate.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
MrTeal
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November 20, 2013, 01:35:58 AM

Providing MPP modules to Batch 1 customers at no additional cost and after the sale has been the best thing HF has done so far. I don't understand how you can criticize them about that, much less take them to court. You can pound your chest all you want but this is just not going to happen.

The thing I object to is that MPP was designed to protect against excessive difficulty increases. Not delays.

HF has done nothing to compensate against delays so it is the customers that will pay the price for HF failures.

To compensate for delays HF is starting the MPP earlier than they have to, on Oct 30 instead of ship date.

They have also upgraded the offer to include complete miniboards instead of raw chips.

These indications of HashFast's good faith demonstrate their commitment to provide customers with the maximum possible value for their BTC. 
Ah, that's the thing though. They're starting the MPP clock on Oct 30th (ending in late January). There is no verbiage in any of the terms as to when those MPP units will ship though, and HashFast won't answer the question of where those units will be in the preorder queue.
If they don't ship until all the existing preorders and upgrade orders go out the door, you very well could get your extra 3 MPP modules for a BabyJet in March.
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November 20, 2013, 01:41:01 AM

To compensate for delays HF is starting the MPP earlier than they have to, on Oct 30 instead of ship date.

They have also upgraded the offer to include complete miniboards instead of raw chips.

These indications of HashFast's good faith demonstrate their commitment to provide customers with the maximum possible value for their BTC.  

If by 'maximum possible value for their BTC' you mean getting a fraction of the initial invested BTC back, then yes. I agree.
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November 20, 2013, 01:55:29 AM

I understand it would be very nice to have specific commitments of X MPP miniboards on Y date.

However, this is an unreasonable/impossible expectation for several reasons.

1.  HF can't predict future difficulty and thus can't extrapolate how many MPP miniboards will be required.

2.  HF can't gauge hardware performance nor availability before the product is finished and in production.

3.  Shipping complete miniboards instead of raw chips greatly exacerbates issue #2.

The MPP wafers have been ordered and paid for.  However...

HashFast must complete their supply chain and ship Batch One before evaluating the many variables in the MPP equation.


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█████████████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████
██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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