HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[cedivad]

But as I've taken pains to point out, I still hold out hope that Hashfast will prove themselves to be straight up guys (and gals, I guess), and will proactively address the problem when they ship.

I don't. It's clear for me that they prefer money over reputation to spend on future customers.
Where is _everything_ they promised us, just for example?

I'm the pessimist here, but i sincerely don't understand all of this optimism.

[opentoe]

Whats up with their new call center? Every time I call they take my info down and say they will have someone call me back.

I asked, and the call center isn't even physically located at HF. They are outsourced.

Lots of small get rich quick companies outsource contractors for their call centers. They don't have to worry about anything. Just give the customer some phone number and that's it.

[opentoe]

Are lawsuits liable in situations like this? I've never seen a company sued for not coming through on deadlines or coming up with a product. Now if they refuse to give you a refund then I suggest start your lawsuit right away. I try to follow this thread just to keep up with things, but what is the major issue? HF is having problems getting their product out the door, that I understand, but are they refusing to refund people or something?

[MrTeal]

Are lawsuits liable in situations like this? I've never seen a company sued for not coming through on deadlines or coming up with a product. Now if they refuse to give you a refund then I suggest start your lawsuit right away. I try to follow this thread just to keep up with things, but what is the major issue? HF is having problems getting their product out the door, that I understand, but are they refusing to refund people or something?

Yes

[itod]

I'm the pessimist here, but i sincerely don't understand all of this optimism.

It's not the optimism, it's realism. Instead of 400-500GHs Nov 1st you're gonna get 400-500GHs Jan 1st and 1500-2000GHs mid February, depending of the final operational GHs these machines will have. You are screwed because first option would get you positive ROI and the second one almost certainly will not (except if Cointerra fails bigtime), but it is not the end of the world. You cross out HashFast from the list of the companies you'll ever deal in your life again, just like you crossed Yifu and you move on. It can be worse, HF can go down and not deliver anything, and you get only practically satoshies through law-suites. Do you think the court will refund you fairly? Do you think the money paid for BabyJets waits in the bank ready to be refunded? I will never, ever consider HF again, no matter how attractive their offers may be in the future, and I certainly hope anyone who was dragged through this by their side will do the same. That's the best you can do and hope that those 2-2.5THs you finally get in February will mine something. Realism, not optimism.

[Xian01]

Well, I suppose I should cross off HashFast as a company to preorder from after reading the last few pages... *sigh*

[cedivad]

It's not the optimism, it's realism. Instead of 400-500GHs Nov 1st you're gonna get 400-500GHs Jan 1st and 1500-2000GHs mid February,

I stopped reading here (will resume later).
Please tell me where it's written that we will receive the MPP in February. It's no-where. No-Where. They are careful not to put that detail no where.

[Kouye]

Well, I suppose I should cross off HashFast as a company to preorder from after reading the last first few pages... *sigh*

Fixed that for you.
There were so many red flags from the start I can't beleive people actually gave them so much credit.

I stopped following pretty early, but did they explain the twitter account deletion thing, by the way?

[itod]

It's not the optimism, it's realism. Instead of 400-500GHs Nov 1st you're gonna get 400-500GHs Jan 1st and 1500-2000GHs mid February,

I stopped reading here (will resume later).
Please tell me where it's written that we will receive the MPP in February. It's no-where. No-Where. They are careful not to put that detail no where.

What do you want me to tell you? To guarantee you? To wipe off your tears? If they don't give MPP promised on their website as a part of the value of their product, than it may be realistic substance for a law suite. Just maybe, lawyers get into play then, but not before February. So please will you stop this law-suite whining, If you wanna go to the court feel free to do it, but it gets boring reading here 10 times a day people explaining to you it's not rational course of action at this moment, and you constantly repeating same thing day after day like you want HF to go down now. Please stop the whine.

[cedivad]

Maybe i didn't explained myself. The MPP states that you are entitled to 4 times (blabla) the hashrate, but it does not says when you will receive this hashrate.
If received in February (first of, as per MPP, not middle as you say), it's one thing. If received in April, it's a completely different one.

I disagree with everything else you have said. Ignore me if you don't want to read me.

[ninjarobot]

Providing MPP modules to Batch 1 customers at no additional cost and after the sale has been the best thing HF has done so far. I don't understand how you can criticize them about that, much less take them to court. You can pound your chest all you want but this is just not going to happen.

The thing I object to is that MPP was designed to protect against excessive difficulty increases. Not delays.

HF has done nothing to compensate against delays so it is the customers that will pay the price for HF failures.

[crumbs]

...
I stopped following pretty early, but did they explain the twitter account deletion thing, by the way?

Nah, they never did.
And now even Cypherdoc doesn't drop by anymore.  He used to be so enthusiastic...

[cedivad]

I bought after the MPP was announced. And the MPP doesn't make them less liars. They sold out batch 1 only thanks to the MPP, please note this point.

[iCEBREAKER]

Providing MPP modules to Batch 1 customers at no additional cost and after the sale has been the best thing HF has done so far. I don't understand how you can criticize them about that, much less take them to court. You can pound your chest all you want but this is just not going to happen.

The thing I object to is that MPP was designed to protect against excessive difficulty increases. Not delays.

HF has done nothing to compensate against delays so it is the customers that will pay the price for HF failures.

To compensate for delays HF is starting the MPP earlier than they have to, on Oct 30 instead of ship date.

They have also upgraded the offer to include complete miniboards instead of raw chips.

These indications of HashFast's good faith demonstrate their commitment to provide customers with the maximum possible value for their BTC. 

[cedivad]

Actually, they just talked about calculated benefits. From what i read, and my english is bad, they are talking about how much additional processing power you will have. Even if they started to calculate that at the shipping time, customers would be entitled to 4 times the hashrate.

[MrTeal]

Providing MPP modules to Batch 1 customers at no additional cost and after the sale has been the best thing HF has done so far. I don't understand how you can criticize them about that, much less take them to court. You can pound your chest all you want but this is just not going to happen.

The thing I object to is that MPP was designed to protect against excessive difficulty increases. Not delays.

HF has done nothing to compensate against delays so it is the customers that will pay the price for HF failures.

To compensate for delays HF is starting the MPP earlier than they have to, on Oct 30 instead of ship date.

They have also upgraded the offer to include complete miniboards instead of raw chips.

These indications of HashFast's good faith demonstrate their commitment to provide customers with the maximum possible value for their BTC. 

Ah, that's the thing though. They're starting the MPP clock on Oct 30th (ending in late January). There is no verbiage in any of the terms as to when those MPP units will ship though, and HashFast won't answer the question of where those units will be in the preorder queue.
If they don't ship until all the existing preorders and upgrade orders go out the door, you very well could get your extra 3 MPP modules for a BabyJet in March.

[ninjarobot]

To compensate for delays HF is starting the MPP earlier than they have to, on Oct 30 instead of ship date.

They have also upgraded the offer to include complete miniboards instead of raw chips.

These indications of HashFast's good faith demonstrate their commitment to provide customers with the maximum possible value for their BTC.  

If by 'maximum possible value for their BTC' you mean getting a fraction of the initial invested BTC back, then yes. I agree.

[iCEBREAKER]

I understand it would be very nice to have specific commitments of X MPP miniboards on Y date.

However, this is an unreasonable/impossible expectation for several reasons.

1.  HF can't predict future difficulty and thus can't extrapolate how many MPP miniboards will be required.

2.  HF can't gauge hardware performance nor availability before the product is finished and in production.

3.  Shipping complete miniboards instead of raw chips greatly exacerbates issue #2.

The MPP wafers have been ordered and paid for.  However...

HashFast must complete their supply chain and ship Batch One before evaluating the many variables in the MPP equation.

[Jutarul]

Providing MPP modules to Batch 1 customers at no additional cost and after the sale has been the best thing HF has done so far. I don't understand how you can criticize them about that, much less take them to court. You can pound your chest all you want but this is just not going to happen.

The thing I object to is that MPP was designed to protect against excessive difficulty increases. Not delays.

HF has done nothing to compensate against delays so it is the customers that will pay the price for HF failures.

correct. Also see [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg3527186#msg3527186].

The MPP was born in an attempt to attract customers at a time the network difficulty grew dramatically. It is a value-added deal which makes this offer very attractive.

With the radio silence from Hashfast there is hardly any way to know what is really going on behind the curtain. All things are possible - from an honest attempt to fix engineering problems and avoiding PR interference to an attempted cover-up of fraudulent advertisement.

Dependent on how Hashfast used customer money to finance production (which has not been stated anywhere and should be considered malpractice), Hashfast customers may be locked into the fate of the company. If it succeeds customers will either be compensated for any shortcomings or may otherwise have grounds for litigation charges. If it fails, customers will have a claim on any left-overs after the company will have to file for bankruptcy. If customer funds were used, it's a misuse of financing, because it lets customers take all the risk while the potential gains (overall profitability of the company) is kept in private hands. Equity financing would have been more appropriate in that case.

Again - without anymore information coming from Hashfast it's hard to paint a precise picture of what is going on. For one it would be interesting to learn how Hashfast stored the customer funds to keep them available for a refund.

[MrTeal]

I understand it would be very nice to have specific commitments of X MPP miniboards on Y date.

However, this is an unreasonable/impossible expectation for several reasons.

1.  HF can't predict future difficulty and thus can't extrapolate how many MPP miniboards will be required.

2.  HF can't gauge hardware performance nor availability before the product is finished and in production.

3.  Shipping complete miniboards instead of raw chips greatly exacerbates issue #2.

The MPP wafers have been ordered and paid for.  However...

HashFast must complete their supply chain and ship Batch One before evaluating the many variables in the MPP equation.

Ah, but that's not the question. Obviously they can't give a specific date on when they will ship the MPP boards as they don't even know when they'll ship batch 1, although they should know the quantity since every batch 1 customer will receive 400% of their hashrate.
The question is, where will the MPP sit in the delivery queue? Assuming they actually ship batch one BabyJets in mid December, once the end of January comes around will those Batch 1 MPP boards be prioritized? If HashFast is still shipping batch 2 BabyJets and Sierras, will they finish those and ship the B1 MPP boards before batch 3? Will they wait until all the sales between batch 1 and the end of January are shipped before going back to ship the batch 1 BabyJet MPP boards and sending those out?

I don't think it's pessimistic to think that if the last possibility (on January 29th the B1 MPP boards are entered into the system, at the very end of the order queue) is what HashFast has in mind, it could be March before any Batch 1 customers see their extra boards. Depending on their order volume in January it could be even longer, as at $5 per GH/s they might sell a considerable volume after they demonstrate that they are hashing.