Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Lancelot19]

The conversation that was posted about 8 pages back between Dan at MS was my email chain.

I have since refused the shipment and it was sent back to them.

If anyone has requested a refund from Minersource and has not received it, please send me a message.

If your order ships, do not accept it, if you accept it you will make it quite a bit harder to get your refund.

Interesting return path. It shipped out from Commerce City, Co. The tracking return the package to Rolla, MO. Which JUST happens to be where Bob and Dan seem to live.

I will be careful though and refer to the your counsel on this matter. I am also a customer and with their terms of service it makes it a little ambiguous what happens when you decline shipment. This is the part that worries me:
"Preorders

The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order."

If anyone can provide me with some clarity I will really appreciate it.

to start, a companies ToS means absolutely nothing.  They can write whatever they want in it, but if they violate the government laws, they may have as well written them in the sand on a beach, because they are worthless.  Now BA has decided to business in the U.S., the U.K., as well as a slew of other companies whose laws protect the consumer from unfair business practices such as this.  In the U.S. for example, you are allowed to request a refund even after the product is delivered for some period of time (someone can correct me on the exact length of days here as I am unsure off the top of my head) no questions asked.

Now, if a refund request was submitted prior to shipping, it is on the companies responsibility to oblige the request, and shipping the product blatantly ignores that.  Any judge will easily award the customer the lawsuit and make the seller refund for the product.  He should just make sure he has copies of all emails sent to and from BA, as well as copies of when his shipping notice was received and the tracking info.  Now being in China, that complicates things, and a rejected package will probably have a very hard time getting retribution even though the law is very clear.  This is because it can get messy when going international.  But the fact remains, that he has the right to request a refund at any point, regardless of what any ToS say on BA's.

Also, it can be proven that BA very clearly violated their own ToS many times.  The one I am referring to is when they said they needed to cash out the order money to pay for production.  There are many people who have tracked their bitcoins and they are still sitting in the same address that they were sent to, obviously not cashed out by BA.  Just another instance where the scum of the earth company has lied about what they are doing.

Thanks for the response. My only issue is that these items weren't marketed as commercial products, rather built to order. This changes which laws apply. If it is actually a built to order product, it would be as if you pay a construction company to build a house, and then once its done, decline payment. If those same rules apply then maybe they aren't required to do refunds. Did anyone hire counsel regarding this matter for clarification? Many people are saying many things and I'm not sure if they did their homework. I have already reported to BBB and FTC, and declined shipment. Unfortunately, I can't afford a lawyer for such a small amount of money, but someone I know with experience says it will be tough because they offered compensation and the units are performing above spec, so the TOS might apply. They then recommended I accept shipment and compensation. I regret ever ordering from BA.

[1714687681]

1714687681

[1714687681]

1714687681

[1714687681]

1714687681

[thejaxx]

I will be careful though and refer to the your counsel on this matter. I am also a customer and with their terms of service it makes it a little ambiguous what happens when you decline shipment. This is the part that worries me:

Time and time again the "Terms of Service" have been struck down in the court of law due to conflicting with law. Terms of Service does not nullify your rights.

And the FTC has been VERY specific about this. The FTC is also VERY specific about the rules of refunds. FTC rules state specifically that if a customer requests a cancellation of his order BEFORE shipment, then the seller is REQUIRED to give a 100% full refund. There are NO IF's, AND's, or BUT's about it.

When it comes to BA, I do not know since they are not located in the United States.

[thejaxx]

I will be careful though and refer to the your counsel on this matter. I am also a customer and with their terms of service it makes it a little ambiguous what happens when you decline shipment. This is the part that worries me:

Time and time again the "Terms of Service" have been struck down in the court of law due to conflicting with law. Terms of Service does not nullify your rights.

And the FTC has been VERY specific about this. The FTC is also VERY specific about the rules of refunds. FTC rules state specifically that if a customer requests a cancellation of his order BEFORE shipment, then the seller is REQUIRED to give a 100% full refund. There are NO IF's, AND's, or BUT's about it.

When it comes to BA, I do not know since they are not located in the United States.

If they operate in the US, they must conform to US laws.  Think of it this way, you can sell on Amazon in other countries now and have your funds converted to your local currency.  But, in order to open an Amazon account in those countries, you must follow their laws and open any accounts or receive any business numbers required.  You must conform to the laws of wherever you are selling your product.

Intersting. I wasn't clear on that and the responses that a few of the BA folks made on ecoin said they are bound by Hong Kong law. Which funny enough has pretty strict customer protection laws that they are violating.

BTW Debit, you have a PM.

[thejaxx]

This all reminds me of a conversation I had with a guy that was studying for his bar exam a few months back. I really wish I could remember his name dammit.

I was doing some wiring at his new place and we got to talking. I asked him what field of law he was going to work in and he wasn't quite sure yet. He sort of joking asked "Why? You know of a new and upcoming area that I can be a cowboy in?" hehe

I told him about bitcoin. He had heard of it but did not really look into it all that much. After our conversation, he was totally hyped and said he was going to be doing a lot of reading into it. It fascinated him and he said 'That is the wild west there' and will need some people who can speak the lingo and help out.

[btcminer84]

Stupid question: When is shipping of X3? 

[tempestb]

I think Bobsag is supposed to fill in some blanks as to the status of the X3.  So far he has said that he's seen some parts.  Take that for what it's worth.

[Und3rd0g]

Another Problem. Even when set to use DHCP it it looks like its hardcoded to use 8.8.8.8 as the DNS..

Blackarrow.. please fix to use the DHCP Supplied DNS Server.

That is Google's public DNS server.  I find it to be faster than my ISP's DNS server.  I would not worry about this.

[CryptoGuy]

Another Problem. Even when set to use DHCP it it looks like its hardcoded to use 8.8.8.8 as the DNS..

Blackarrow.. please fix to use the DHCP Supplied DNS Server.

That is Google's public DNS server.  I find it to be faster than my ISP's DNS server.  I would not worry about this.

Neither do I but if they don't give you the option to change it they should at least add OpenDNS as a backup.

[Und3rd0g]

Another Problem. Even when set to use DHCP it it looks like its hardcoded to use 8.8.8.8 as the DNS..

Blackarrow.. please fix to use the DHCP Supplied DNS Server.

Do you know if it at least maintains some sort of DNS cache? I believe it would make mining considerably slower if it has to connect to the DNS server for every share (about every 3 seconds).

Checking DNS is a necessary step.  DNS will likely be cached on your local device.  No worries. 

[Scrappy Do]

Another Problem. Even when set to use DHCP it it looks like its hardcoded to use 8.8.8.8 as the DNS..

Blackarrow.. please fix to use the DHCP Supplied DNS Server.

Do you know if it at least maintains some sort of DNS cache? I believe it would make mining considerably slower if it has to connect to the DNS server for every share (about every 3 seconds).

Checking DNS is a necessary step.  DNS will likely be cached on your local device.  No worries. 

8.8.8.8 is google dns. Now granted, if you think you have better.. so be it. But if you have better than google... your the shit man.

[LennonNZ]

Not hardcoding the DNS when you select DHCP (the default) is the point. Why are BA doing it.  I know that 8.8.8.8  is Google's DNS.

Thinking Google's DNS is "better" that your ISPs DNS Server 99% of the time is quite wrong. I don't want to argue with people regarding this and it actually it CAN make things slower. If people want their devices to use Google's DNS they should choose it themselves :-)

Saying all that.. I saw an update yesterday to 1.6. From the outside.. I see no differences and Watts and Voltage graphs are still broken.

I'm making maybe 0.005 BTC every day. (hard to know as I've only been running under a week) so considering the power usage and how much BC is getting harder to mine I don't think I'll ever get ROI). 6 Months ago.. It would have been a lot different.

[Atomar]

OK. Got my X1 today (saturday!).
Pluged it in, set pool and it's up and running with with 125 Gh/s 100°C.
Freq changes from 1200 to 1100 and back ... Don't know how to change that to fix freq yet.

[LennonNZ]

Maybe a little confusing.

Normally when a machine gets on the network is will request its network settings via DHCP. This gives out the IP Address/Netmask/gateway/DNS Servers etc.

The X-1 Takes these ok.. but then ignores the DNS Server sent from the DHCP Server and uses 8.8.8.8 instead (it seems its hard coded)

There is no way to change this DNS Setting at all as if you go via the GUI and try and change it.. you cannot.

8.8.8.8 will work ok for most people (but not all people as they may not have access to 8.8.8.8 or may run it without an internet connection directly). Some people may want to change the DNS Server/Use the one given out via DHCP (which should be the default) but you can't.

[LennonNZ]

OK. Got my X1 today (saturday!).
Pluged it in, set pool and it's up and running with with 125 Gh/s 100°C.
Freq changes from 1200 to 1100 and back ... Don't know how to change that to fix freq yet.

I can only run it at 1100Hz and runs at around 110GH/s on average. (its been running at 60C ALL the time). I dunno if this is accurate as the graph is 60C ALL the time even at night and day when the ambient temperate is different by quite a bit)

If I change to 1200Hz then it just fails completely when it tries to start up mining.

[Atomar]

Ther is an Softwareupdate for my X1 to 1.4
How do I know what I have installed now?? Should I update at all ?? What changed ??

@ LennonNZ: Where did you see V 1.6 ??

And: I managed to chage to 1100Hz. And temp is ~80°C

[LennonNZ]

Ther is an Softwareupdate for my X1 to 1.4
How do I know what I have installed now?? Should I update at all ?? What changed ??

@ LennonNZ: Where did you see V 1.6 ??

And: I managed to chage to 1100Hz. And temp is ~80°C

It asked me to update yesterday. Try Settings.. Update Software.. . (on the http page)

800Hz = 40C 90GH/s
1000Hz = 40C 100GH/s
1100Hz = 60C 110GH/s
1200Hz = Fail

You getting 80C when I get 60C is quite a difference. I am 100% the ambient temperate in your house is not 20C warmer of you would be living in Fiji or Nevada in the middle of Summer with no Aircon :-)

What "reported" temperatures are other people getting? the 40C/60C temps sound quite falsified..

Update: I just stopped the FAN for a couple of minutes and the temperature reported did not change so I am quite 100% the temperatures are just made up. Any comment BlackArrow?

[Atomar]

I see the update. But it's for 1.4 (not 1.6)
Any Problem with updating the Software? Don't wanna scrow up the new miner ;-)

No. I'm from the "cold" Switzerland ;-) Temp right in front of the Miner is right now 23°C
But when I had the Miner flat on the table the temp was showing 100°C. So it is changing ...

[LennonNZ]

I see the update. But it's for 1.4 (not 1.6)
Any Problem with updating the Software? Don't wanna scrow up the new miner ;-)

No. I'm from the "cold" Switzerland ;-) Temp right in front of the Miner is right now 23°C
But when I had the Miner flat on the table the temp was showing 100°C. So it is changing ...

I think you have to update to 1.4 before you upgrade to 1.6.

I have done both with no problems. What changes where made.. NO idea.. no one has said..

Also to note On the bottom of the Manual (  http://blackarrowsoftware.com/download/X-1%20Prospero%20(Control%20Board%20-%20Original%20Design)%20User%20Instructions%20v1.3.pdf )  it says:

"Note that device is designed to be placed on the side, vertically. Blocking the airflow vents may cause device to overheat and prevent it from working properly."

See the picture under II. This is how it should be standing.. not like the picture up the top of the Manual

its around 23C here at the moment in the house. and my temps are as I gave before.. I think the exactly 60,80,100 temps are just made up..

[LennonNZ]

Maybe .. the Temp can only report temps as 40/60/80/100 and as you had it on the side one of the outlets was covered so it got hotter and reported as 100 (could be anything from 80->100) and as mine is on its side I get temp of 60-80). Which make it quite useless.

[LennonNZ]

Yes I am correct.. about 4 mins after placing it on its side (instead of end) the temp went from 60 exactly ->80 exactly -> 100 exactly now..

so it can only report temps in 20C intervals (useless)

So peoples.. make sure you are placing them in their ends.. not their sides..

Edit: in the bottom of the manual they show it standing correctly.. but right besides a wall.. blocking the airflow!!!