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Author Topic: Cloudbet | Bitcoin Casino & Sportsbook | The No.1 Bitcoin Gambling Site  (Read 417591 times)
JollyGood
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September 20, 2018, 09:24:20 AM
 #5121

@slaman29 Thanks for stopping by! At the moment we only request KYC when certain flags have been raised. We try to avoid it wherever possible as we know anonymity is very important to some of our players, and I suspect that KYC for all new players on sign up would drive a lot of people away. It's something I'm happy to pass on as feedback to the team though, as I know the topic comes up for discussion regularly.

Thank you for your response Ronnie at least we see that you guys are being open about this, and this is exactly what I'm trying to say actually.

You are right, players like me are absolutely never going to sign up at a site that needs KYC. But this means for me, as long as there is the possibility that kyc is required, I am never playing, and I know almost 100% anyone who wouldn't sign up because of KYC at signup, would also never sign up if there would be kyc down the line.

So it is extremely important you make it clear at the site on sign up. So people don't get unfairly "trapped".

I agree. If not at sign up then KYC if required must be requested before any deposits can be made. What must be avoided is a customer having his account frozen awaiting KYC after he wins or after he deposits funds because that would be unfair.

Nobody legally requires AML/KYC for crypto gambling or crypto-related websites because there is no international consensus or single definition on what rules should apply.

For example, if you bounce a check/cheque in Dubai it leads to immediate arrest and an automatic jail sentence because it is considered a criminal offence but doing so anywhere in Europe or most countries around the world it is not even a civil offence, no way are you going to a police station for that let alone a jail. Another example, in the USA if you commit murder in various states you will get the death penalty but in other states you will never be sentenced to death. Likewise, there is no single internationally accepted and implemented cause that raises flags that force website owners to request KYC.

As long as no FIAT is involved then AML/KYC are virtually non-existent requirements.

Speaking of the USA, your website gambling website is not legal in the USA so why are you not blocking access in the way STAKE does with a js alert stating:
"Sorry, Stake isn't available in your Region. Not in a restricted region? If you're using a proxy service or VPN to access Stake, try turning it off and reload the page.?"

Most gambling sites play this KYC/AML game against their users when they want to scam

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September 20, 2018, 03:18:12 PM
 #5122

Nobody legally requires AML/KYC for crypto gambling or crypto-related websites because there is no international consensus or single definition on what rules should apply.

As long as no FIAT is involved then AML/KYC are virtually non-existent requirements.
I have no idea what the sense of your nonsense post it, but in many jurisdictions AML/KYC laws are also applicable for crypto currencies!

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September 20, 2018, 03:43:33 PM
 #5123

Nobody legally requires AML/KYC for crypto gambling or crypto-related websites because there is no international consensus or single definition on what rules should apply.

As long as no FIAT is involved then AML/KYC are virtually non-existent requirements.
I have no idea what the sense of your nonsense post it, but in many jurisdictions AML/KYC laws are also applicable for crypto currencies!

Oh Lord here we go again... Please provide

1) the name of any jurisdiction where crypto can be traded without using FIAT and WITHOUT providing AML/KYC

2) the name of any jurisdiction where crypto can be traded without using FIAT but MUST provide AML/KYC

3) the name of any jurisdiction where crypto casinos are lawful WITHOUT providing AML/KYC

4) the name of any jurisdiction where crypto casinos are lawful WITH MANDATORY AML/KYC

As mentioned, if any conversion of crypto either FIAT>CRYPTO or CRYTPO>FIAT takes place then various regulations kick in no matter which country the exchanger/trader is located or registered in.

If all transactions taking place are simply CRYPTO>CRYPTO then there are plenty of jurisdictions around the world where AML/KYC on those websites is not necessary or mandatory.

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September 20, 2018, 03:48:01 PM
 #5124

I have no idea what the sense of your nonsense post it, but in many jurisdictions AML/KYC laws are also applicable for crypto currencies!

I usually expect the unexpected from you but that comment made me do a double-take  Grin

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September 20, 2018, 09:28:23 PM
 #5125

@game-protect

I see you did not answer. As mentioned nothing surprises me about what you write but for what it is worth Cloudbet and all online crypto casinos are under zero obligation to obtain KYC because they are dealing in crypto and not with FIAT.

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September 20, 2018, 09:51:42 PM
 #5126

@game-protect

I see you did not answer. As mentioned nothing surprises me about what you write but for what it is worth Cloudbet and all online crypto casinos are under zero obligation to obtain KYC because they are dealing in crypto and not with FIAT.
Why should I answer to your trading questings while I speak about online crypto currency casinos?

Also, how is FIAT related to Fraudbet? Do they take FIAT deposits?

I have better things to do than answering all nonsense questions on bitcointalk. Wink

Go back in the thread, I never mentioned Fraudbet (no idea what it is anyway)

The point is as long as you have non-FIAT online gambling website then there is no need for a licence if you register in Costa Rica and there is no KYC requirement there.

If all transactions taking place are simply crypto (not using FIAT) then there are plenty of jurisdictions around the world where AML/KYC on those websites is not necessary or mandatory and in several cases a gambling licence is not needed either.

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September 20, 2018, 09:59:24 PM
 #5127

If all transactions taking place are simply crypto (not using FIAT) then there are plenty of jurisdictions around the world where AML/KYC on those websites is not necessary or mandatory and in several cases a gambling licence is not needed either.
Then give some examples of the plenty of jurisdictions around the world where AML/KYC is not mandatory for crypto currency casinos and a gambling license is also not needed?

Do you think the hundreds of Curaηao based casinos pay $40,000 and more every year while they can operate legally and without AML/KYC requirement in plenty jurisdictions around the world?


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September 20, 2018, 11:02:23 PM
 #5128

Then give some examples of the plenty of jurisdictions around the world where AML/KYC is not mandatory for crypto currency casinos and a gambling license is also not needed?

Do you think the hundreds of Curaηao based casinos pay $40,000 and more every year while they can operate legally and without AML/KYC requirement in plenty jurisdictions around the world?

Costa Rica is one:
https://www.gamblingsites.com/online-gambling-jurisdictions/costa-rica/

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September 21, 2018, 08:46:35 AM
 #5129

Morning all!

@JollyGood I understand, it would definitely make sense to update the rules to include those terms - I'll draft an amendment and pass it on up the chain for approval. We are GDPR compliant, are you suggesting we should have this displayed on site? If so i'll pass the request along for the website team. I'll also check with them regarding the cookie notifications as it's not really my area of expertise, but thanks very much for the heads up!

Players from the US are unable to use our service, and are blocked and notified of this when attempting to create an account. I'll pass on the feedback about making this more visible when initially visiting the site though.

@marlboroza The red flag was that the money could be being 'cleaned' by depositing and withdrawing without play-through, the amount wasn't relevant when the KYC request was made as it is a blanket rule that would apply to any amount. Thankfully the amount in question was small with little risk of ML, which is probably why senior management decided to issue the funds after investigation.

The minimum stakes for most of our sporting lines are 0.0001 BTC, however there are some specific lines where the minimum stake is slightly higher. The player deposited with enough to make stakes on regular events but unfortunately the line they wanted to place had a higher minimum stake, which is why they then requested the withdrawal.

I've made a request that a check box or link to the T&Cs be added to the sign up page based on this discussion, i'll post when the devs have checked the ticket but obviously can't make any promises on a timeframe for implementation just yet.

Our license provider is E Gambling Montenegro and you can find details on our license page.

@slaman29 You definitely make a good point about KYC rules being more visible, and as i have said to @JollyGood above I'll draft some changes to the rules to include the terms and pass them up for approval - I'm sure anything I suggest will have to be checked over by our legal team before going live!

Thanks,

Ronnie @ Cloudbet

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September 21, 2018, 09:02:03 AM
 #5130

Nobody legally requires AML/KYC for crypto gambling or crypto-related websites because there is no international consensus or single definition on what rules should apply.

As long as no FIAT is involved then AML/KYC are virtually non-existent requirements.
I have no idea what the sense of your nonsense post it, but in many jurisdictions AML/KYC laws are also applicable for crypto currencies!

Oh Lord here we go again... Please provide

1) the name of any jurisdiction where crypto can be traded without using FIAT and WITHOUT providing AML/KYC

2) the name of any jurisdiction where crypto can be traded without using FIAT but MUST provide AML/KYC

3) the name of any jurisdiction where crypto casinos are lawful WITHOUT providing AML/KYC

4) the name of any jurisdiction where crypto casinos are lawful WITH MANDATORY AML/KYC

As mentioned, if any conversion of crypto either FIAT>CRYPTO or CRYTPO>FIAT takes place then various regulations kick in no matter which country the exchanger/trader is located or registered in.

If all transactions taking place are simply CRYPTO>CRYPTO then there are plenty of jurisdictions around the world where AML/KYC on those websites is not necessary or mandatory.

The best way to deal with game-protect is just to take everything he says with a dash of salt and lots of herbs and spices. He just seems to troll all the threads, seems to talk about legality and especially licensing but actually doesn't really understand the finer points of jurisdictions, and how crypto casinos fit into all that.

@OP thanks for really being active on the discussions here. A lot of important stuff that needs clarification, and really good to see people like you respond, even when there is criticism.

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September 21, 2018, 10:49:55 AM
 #5131

@slaman29 Thanks for the kind words! I don't mind the questions, happy to be as transparent as possible and I like a good forum debate Smiley

@JollyGood I just got a response regarding the cookies - apparently we don't currently use them so the notification isn't required. I'll ask that if we do start using them that a warning is included as standard when visiting the site.

Thanks,

Ronnie @ Cloudbet

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September 21, 2018, 11:26:22 AM
 #5132

Quote from: Cloudbet
@JollyGood I understand, it would definitely make sense to update the rules to include those terms - I'll draft an amendment and pass it on up the chain for approval. We are GDPR compliant, are you suggesting we should have this displayed on site? If so i'll pass the request along for the website team. I'll also check with them regarding the cookie notifications as it's not really my area of expertise, but thanks very much for the heads up!

Thank you for getting back to me, it always help so much when team members help out so fast. Thank you.

Regarding GDPR, I have not signed up to your Cloudbet website so cannot say what happens when an account is created. GDPR is not something needs to be "advertised" or highlighted as existing on your website but the functionality is essential if your website is accessed by EU residents.

Effectively, any page that has an input field which allows customers to enter data (it could be their name, address, telephone number, email address, what their checkbox settings for notifications are, basically anything they want to edit or delete except the orders they placed because you are obligated to keep them for accounting/tax/legal reasons.

If Cloudbet website allows customers to Right of Erasure and Right of Access as per GDPR then it complies. If it does not then it is in breach of GDPR and liable for a penalty fine. Writing in and asking for access to view personal data or information is not the way GDPR works, customers must be able to login and a have the Right of Erasure and the Right of Access. Do you have that on the website?

Quote from: Cloudbet
@JollyGood I just got a response regarding the cookies - apparently we don't currently use them so the notification isn't required. I'll ask that if we do start using them that a warning is included as standard when visiting the site.

Sorry but your team is wrong. I would have thought if customers login to a site it would more than likely place cookies by default. I have not created an account at Cloudbet, I just browsed the home page and checked for cookies. It shows clearly cookies are being stored therefore a cookie notification on Cloudbet is necessary. Please look at the image attached.

It clearly shows: "Is this website storing information on my computer?"
The response clearly shows: "Yes, cookies and 48.0KB of site data"


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September 21, 2018, 12:57:27 PM
 #5133

@JollyGood Apologies, I might have misunderstood the question about cookies. I’ll go back and clarify now but I know we do comply with Right of Erasure.

Ronnie @ Cloudbet

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4x4et
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September 21, 2018, 01:22:53 PM
 #5134

@slaman29 Thanks for the kind words! I don't mind the questions, happy to be as transparent as possible and I like a good forum debate Smiley

@JollyGood I just got a response regarding the cookies - apparently we don't currently use them so the notification isn't required. I'll ask that if we do start using them that a warning is included as standard when visiting the site.

Thanks,

Ronnie @ Cloudbet

LOL - i think there is no website, especially the one with login, which doesn't use cookies

this only shows you Cloudbet "profesionalism" at its finest

CHEAP GOOGLE VOICE ACCOUNTS, TORRENT INVITES, E-BOOKS, AND MANY MORE - PM ME
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September 21, 2018, 01:44:14 PM
 #5135

@JollyGood Apologies, I might have misunderstood the question about cookies. I’ll go back and clarify now but I know we do comply with Right of Erasure.

Ronnie @ Cloudbet

No problem Ronnie, I understand you wrote earlier that this is not your area of expertise but the devs need to sort this out.

I am grateful for you getting back with replies, it shows Cloudbet is at least trying to engage with its users on a level better than some other gambling sites such as Betking.

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September 21, 2018, 02:34:23 PM
 #5136

The best way to deal with game-protect is just to take everything he says with a dash of salt and lots of herbs and spices. He just seems to troll all the threads, seems to talk about legality and especially licensing but actually doesn't really understand the finer points of jurisdictions, and how crypto casinos fit into all that.

As you said he has no idea about legality and jurisdictions yet he somehow runs a website advising and informing people about online gambling scams and even providing legal representatives: https://game-protect.com

I certainly will be taking what he says with dash of salt and lots of herbs and spices  Shocked



@OP thanks for really being active on the discussions here. A lot of important stuff that needs clarification, and really good to see people like you respond, even when there is criticism.

I have to say thanks as well because I agree with your comments about the Cloudbet representative being active here even if the posts are constructive criticism.


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September 21, 2018, 06:56:36 PM
Last edit: November 29, 2018, 05:13:43 PM by marlboroza
 #5137

Quote
Cloudbet is a licensed bitcoin betting site by E-Gambling Montenegro.

E Gambling Montenegro d.o.o (Podgorica, Moskovska br. 65., reg. no. 50615951) hereby certifies that under the concession (serial no. AA 001588, numeric no. 133-01/15 5A i 1ERR) and approval (no. 02/02-118/4), organize and operate games of chance in Montenegro on website www.cloudbet.com
in accordance with the Agreement on management and financial cooperation, concluded between E Gambling Montenegro d.o.o. and TIGER TREE HOLDINGS do.o.o (Cetinje, Njegoseva br. 97., reg. no. 50721755) TIN: 03035166 on 05 March, 2015 which is valid from 05 September, 2018 until 05 March 2019.

Cloudbet are committed to responsible gaming, and are dedicated to an enjoyable and positive bitcoin betting experience.

If you have any questions, please contact our dedicated support team or refer to our frequently asked questions.

Our license provider is E Gambling Montenegro and you can find details on our license page.
I am having difficulty to find your license, neither I can find that E Gambling Montenegro has Montenegro's concession and approval to organize and operate games of chance in Montenegro.
Quote
If you have any questions, please contact our dedicated support team
So where should I look? Here http://www.gov.me/naslovna ? Here http://www.gov.me/pretraga/174352/Azurirani-podaci-o-priredivacima-za-14-09-2018.html ? Here https://e-gambling.me/ ? Here https://e-gambling.com/ ?
Where?

To comply with AML laws we have to request ID
Can you please address this just to see that company which is registered in Montenegro and licensed by another Montenegro's company comply with Montenegro's AML law http://www.aspn.gov.me/rubrike/zakonska-regulativa/112715/Zakon-o-sprjecavanju-pranja-novca-i-finansiranja-terorizma.html

Thank you.

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September 21, 2018, 07:36:29 PM
 #5138

To comply with AML laws we have to request ID

If that is true then they must list AML and KYC guidles and policy on their website at cloudbet.com but the acronyms are not even mentioned once.

Usually asking for AML/KYC is a tactic that is used by nearly all casino websites from time to time to freeze customer accounts when selective scamming.

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September 21, 2018, 08:36:26 PM
Last edit: September 21, 2018, 08:59:54 PM by game-protect
 #5139

Then give some examples of the plenty of jurisdictions around the world where AML/KYC is not mandatory for crypto currency casinos and a gambling license is also not needed?

Do you think the hundreds of Curaηao based casinos pay $40,000 and more every year while they can operate legally and without AML/KYC requirement in plenty jurisdictions around the world?

Costa Rica is one:
https://www.gamblingsites.com/online-gambling-jurisdictions/costa-rica/
One is one and not plenty! Roll Eyes

Costa Rica also is not a gambling license, it is just a company registration.


The best way to deal with game-protect is just to take everything he says with a dash of salt and lots of herbs and spices. He just seems to troll all the threads, seems to talk about legality and especially licensing but actually doesn't really understand the finer points of jurisdictions, and how crypto casinos fit into all that.
You have fully right here! We are clueless about legal things and when we were able to enforce a claim it was because we played Bingo and where lucky! Cheesy

You can find the dumbest dumbasses in the world on bitcointalk! Smiley

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September 22, 2018, 11:21:28 AM
 #5140

Would there be any possibility you could altogether enhance the quantity of alternatives you have for tennis wagering, as at present you have no matches to wager on when there are in truth a poop ton of recreations in qualifiers and finals and copies. Additionally would you investigate set wagering (i.e Williams 2-1) instead of simply the fundamental point spreads and over/unders which each bookie offers? At last do you all plan your own particular lines or take after/associate with a portion of the huge fiat bookies ?
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