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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2761543 times)
Come-from-Beyond
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January 29, 2014, 06:07:57 PM
 #25801

Regarding Mixing Service. Do we need such on-chain service that mixes coins with anonymity-reliability trade-off? 30% anonymity means 70% reliability to get all the coins back. Yes, it means that with 100% anonymity u could get 0% - 200% coins back.

can you elaborate on how the mixing service can work and why such high risks are involved?
the anonymity feature is quite important in my view.

I can't. I don't know the algo. It costs 1M NXT.
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January 29, 2014, 06:10:29 PM
 #25802

Regarding Mixing Service. Do we need such on-chain service that mixes coins with anonymity-reliability trade-off? 30% anonymity means 70% reliability to get all the coins back. Yes, it means that with 100% anonymity u could get 0% - 200% coins back.

can you elaborate on how the mixing service can work and why such high risks are involved?
the anonymity feature is quite important in my view.
That's the first approach we have, there might be other and better approaches.

You should only use it if you do so regularly and if you are aware of the risk.

You could mix 1.000 Nxt and you end up with 700.

The chance for that is really low tho, if you're familiar witch stochastics the more transactions you have going on, the closer you end up at + - 0%.

I find it hard to wrap my head around, but it's maths Cheesy
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January 29, 2014, 06:10:32 PM
 #25803

Regarding Mixing Service. Do we need such on-chain service that mixes coins with anonymity-reliability trade-off? 30% anonymity means 70% reliability to get all the coins back. Yes, it means that with 100% anonymity u could get 0% - 200% coins back.

What is the purpose of that mixing service? Achieving anonymity?
newsilike
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January 29, 2014, 06:11:39 PM
 #25804

Yes
ChuckOne
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January 29, 2014, 06:19:03 PM
 #25805

Yes

Anonymity in which form? What is the question somebody will not be able to answer after I did mixing some coins up?
Come-from-Beyond
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January 29, 2014, 06:20:25 PM
 #25806

Yes

Anonymity in which form? What is the question somebody will not be able to answer after I did mixing some coins up?

Is there a link between these incoming and these outgoing transactions?
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January 29, 2014, 06:23:59 PM
 #25807

Regarding Mixing Service. Do we need such on-chain service that mixes coins with anonymity-reliability trade-off? 30% anonymity means 70% reliability to get all the coins back. Yes, it means that with 100% anonymity u could get 0% - 200% coins back.

can you elaborate on how the mixing service can work and why such high risks are involved?
the anonymity feature is quite important in my view.

I can't. I don't know the algo. It costs 1M NXT.

Ok, I have an algo, too and will send it to you for only 900.000 NXT. It has 99,99% anoymity. And that is PER NXT! Deal?

Seriously, don't pay upfront. Make a bounty and set a date, just like you did with javascript encryption. Winner is whatever gets implemented in NXT.
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January 29, 2014, 06:25:32 PM
 #25808

Seriously, don't pay upfront.

Usually I don't pay upfront. But if I always went this way I wouldn't be an Nxt founder...
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January 29, 2014, 06:26:08 PM
 #25809

again,

do you (or other members of the development team who you talk to) have any ace upon your sleeve (whatever it is and not necessary to reveal it now) in relation to the promised nxt innovations just in case any other currency becomes mainstrem instead of Nxt??

thanks again.

Let me to make appearance that I haven't seen this question. Smiley

well....although being aggressive with the question, i think you got it....i did not want an answer...just trying to say that if you (and the team) is not thinking about measures to counteract, you should start thinking about them...

from your answer, i assume that it is all under control and you are considereing delivery times for improvements. I mean, you are taking into account external events that could affect Nxt in order to advance or present to the world new features.


thank you again and excuse me if i seemed to be aggressive


by the way, what are the backgrounds of the development team?? just programmers or also different kinds of personalities like accountants, lawyers, economist and so on??
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January 29, 2014, 06:26:13 PM
 #25810

On the other hand, I don't understand what you are doing with marketing. It's important to reach people massively, true. But you want to spend crazy money on things with little ROI. Take redbull for instance: they knew they couldn't go for big things because they were limited and therefore, decided to invest in LOTS of little things (all alternative sports) in order to become big and popular.
Thank you. For example we can have LOTS of little tournaments, people are now preparing chess, poker and starcraft, other sports/games are still free. As soon as the client will be launched, we will more concentrate on looking for people who could organize other tournaments. Meanwhile I would concentrate on studying Nxt in scientific articles or whitepaper. So we could present us without guessing then.

I can help you organise a poker tournament. I think on Stars you can create your own tournaments (haven't done it for years but...) I'm well known in the Spanish poker community and I believe I could bring some people on board Smiley
But let's wait til client is oficially released Smiley BTW, Salsacz, you do a great and hard work, my criticse was trying to make it better, if possible/it makes sense Smiley

I'm a fish here and I hardly understand all you talk about. However, I have read everysingle page of this thread and I own a few thousands (not many) NXT.

That deserves a medal. Tell me your address. I am not a whale or even a dolphin, but I'll send you some.


Straight to the point: what I see from the outside is that time and money is been wasted in things that are not so important.

Look, we're just a bunch of people. We're doing the best we can.

hehe no need, better spend those NXT in some project Cheesy! I studied computer science but never worked as. Therefore I can follow the thread til u talk about specific things from dev side and I enjoy it Smiley
I know you are doing the best you can, I'm happy you read my suggestion and if it can make a 0.0001% better then even more happy Smiley I believe in this that's why I congratulated you all at the end of my post for your hard job Smiley


Hi guys,

I'm a fish here and I hardly understand all you talk about. However, I have read everysingle page of this thread and I own a few thousands (not many) NXT.
Straight to the point: what I see from the outside is that time and money is been wasted in things that are not so important. Sbdy said "better think about a good voting system now than change it later". People, we CAN'T have the best product from the beginning. Things have to appear and then you can see the problems it arises and improves it. Lots of time is being wasted in important things but without reaching a conclusion (beause it's descentralized and it's difficult...) and this is damaging NXT because it will have competitors soon plus expectatives are going down (yes, it's a long term thing, but damnit, what's the point anyway?). I suggest to decide for something fairly good for each thing (gold, aluminum? It doesn't matter now, brands can be changed, specially when they haven't been heavily promoted yet, don't talk so much about these tings that don't affect NXT performance so much) and if needed, change or improve it in the future.

Remember that the best product can never be the first one released. You need something being adapted and while community grows, NXT will be improved and reach the final stage when it will be a real product. We are trying to build the house from the roof.

On the other hand, I don't understand what you are doing with marketing. It's important to reach people massively, true. But you want to spend crazy money on things with little ROI. Take redbull for instance: they knew they couldn't go for big things because they were limited and therefore, decided to invest in LOTS of little things (all alternative sports) in order to become big and popular.

Having said that, I admit it's easy to criticise without giving clear solutions, but I'm not an expert and don't know how to do it + lack of time. But I hope that those who can make this happen will take this into consideration, either they agree or not, at least to think about this.


EDIT: I have to sy you are doing a BIIIIIIG effort and this is highly appreciated. I'm just giving my two cents to try to make it better in the only way I can.

The reason is because of a reluctance to get organized. No one will even address the possibility that it may be more efficient to communicate in dedicated threads with focused discussion rather than one thread with 50 topics floating around.

That shopuld be the best but then com. will probably miss lots of new stuff. However, everything would go much smoother... Guess it's not that bad here if everyone focus on the important stuff (and not about colours to get started)

Samy
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January 29, 2014, 06:26:17 PM
 #25811

Yes

Anonymity in which form? What is the question somebody will not be able to answer after I did mixing some coins up?

Is there a link between these incoming and these outgoing transactions?

Ah, now I get it. Don't think we need to build this upon probability just cryptography.
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January 29, 2014, 06:27:19 PM
 #25812

by the way, what are the backgrounds of the development team?? just programmers or also different kinds of personalities like accountants, lawyers, economist and so on??

All kinds of persons.
Come-from-Beyond
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January 29, 2014, 06:29:20 PM
 #25813

Ah, now I get it. Don't think we need to build this upon probability just cryptography.

This won't work if an adversary has enough resources to solve a Knapsack problem.
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January 29, 2014, 06:30:11 PM
 #25814

I thought mixing would be a direct implementation on nxt code  Huh

?
NxtChg
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January 29, 2014, 06:30:17 PM
 #25815

Seriously, don't pay upfront.

Usually I don't pay upfront. But if I always went this way I wouldn't be an Nxt founder...

 Shocked

"SHHHT, I am BCNext"  Grin

Told ya.

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January 29, 2014, 06:32:37 PM
 #25816

hehe no need, better spend those NXT in some project Cheesy! I studied computer science but never worked as. Therefore I can follow the thread til u talk about specific things from dev side and I enjoy it Smiley
I know you are doing the best you can, I'm happy you read my suggestion and if it can make a 0.0001% better then even more happy Smiley I believe in this that's why I congratulated you all at the end of my post for your hard job Smiley

How pity. You should have tried it. It's one of best professions I can think of. (IMHO)
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January 29, 2014, 06:34:17 PM
 #25817

I thought mixing would be a direct implementation on nxt code  Huh

?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4819711#msg4819711
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January 29, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
 #25818

Seriously, don't pay upfront.

Usually I don't pay upfront. But if I always went this way I wouldn't be an Nxt founder...

 Shocked

"SHHHT, I am BCNext"  Grin

Told ya.

U confuse creator and founder(s).
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January 29, 2014, 06:36:38 PM
 #25819

How? You will still need a secret phrase to sign transactions.

No. NRS will provide prepareTransaction that returns unsigned raw bytes. Signing is supposed to be done in client soft.

So it won't actually be obsolete. What you're saying is that it will be responsibility of each individual client.

Ok, so it seems that all client developers should form a group, where you guys will discuss the things that must be the same in all clients.

This working group then should produce wiki articles (or whatever our version of RFC will be).

So for this particular issue you all need to pick an algorithm to improve security of user passphrases. Probably PBKDF2.

This algorithm must be the same in all clients, so the user can open his wallet everywhere.

yeh - I've been watching the API thread and the Client Dev updates closely, but not muxh happening there ...
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January 29, 2014, 06:37:37 PM
 #25820

U confuse creator and founder(s).

I think you confuse "stakeholder" or "investor" with "founder" Smiley

Or you are BCNext and just slipped your tongue.

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