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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2755915 times)
ChuckOne
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March 18, 2014, 05:06:10 PM
 #45761

I just dont get it.  Consider 2 people with the same identical hardware cost are block forging nodes, but one has balance of 10million and other has 1 million.  So one forges 10x as many blocks as other.  Are you saying that the smaller one should charge higher fees? This doesnt seem feasable as it will directly conflict with our desire of instant transactions.  And I still dont see how different transactions have different computations - Wont any transaction will require full knowledge of the blockchain?

You have me completely lost. Can you provide an example model, modified with your computational model?  Like if I suggested a model of a transaction of 128bytes to have a fee of .1 NXT, then if an asset creation took 256 bytes, then its fee should be .2 NXT (yes, I know AE issue probably isnt 256bytes, and its fee is currently 1000 NXT, but work with me here for an example)

Ah, and just for the record:

there are two types of transactions:

raw transactions -> still not included in a block
transactions in blocks -> included in a block

A node provider can decide how much fee is necessary to cover all the expenditures of the maintenance of his nodes.
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Vega
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March 18, 2014, 05:07:49 PM
 #45762

Do you guys think that 100 BTC buy wall on bter is fake? (Yes/No/Probably)

Define fake.

ChuckOne
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March 18, 2014, 05:07:56 PM
 #45763

unique names is very very idea. If the scammer is able to issue "google" before the legitimate "google" the legitimate google will have to use "go0gle" while the scammer will be using the right name.

The unique part should be the issuer's account ID, and forcing the user to add the ID to their trust list before they can buy any asset.

Well, I see.

Sounds good so far. But the interface for the Average Joe.... How do you expect him to trust an account? There should be some way to verify that easily. Maybe, there could be a URL Joe could click on. That URL will provide Google's NXT account.
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March 18, 2014, 05:12:24 PM
 #45764

Do you guys think that 100 BTC buy wall on bter is fake? (Yes/No/Probably)

Define fake.

Place a large buy order. Then sell to those who post above your buy order. When buy orders above are exhausted, remove your large buy order or move it down. The only risk is that somebody may actually fill your buy order.
Eadeqa
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March 18, 2014, 05:14:04 PM
 #45765

Sounds good so far. But the interface for the Average Joe.... How do you expect him to trust an account? There should be some way to verify that easily. Maybe, there could be a URL Joe could click on. That URL will provide Google's NXT account.

The user has to do some research. There would be warning in the client gui to make sure they are adding a trusted account ID to their trust list. The user will go to the right website (google, forums, research etc) and verify the account ID. Then the user adds that account ID to their trust list. After that, the user will be restricted to buy only assets issued from that issuer whose account ID exists in their trust list.

You can make it even better by not displaying other assets to the user in the client if they don't have the issuer ID in the trust list.  

This will cut down all the scam very fast. The scammers won't go very far (if at all) if their assets are not even displayed to the users.

Plus you avoid the problem of scammers registering all the good names.  

(1) No unique asset names
(2) Restrict users to buy/display assets whose account ID they themselves added to their trust list.

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igmaca
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March 18, 2014, 05:14:24 PM
 #45766

Does that make it clearer?

beware

an issue is how the fee is charged and another is how the fee is partitioned
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March 18, 2014, 05:18:03 PM
 #45767

Thanks for the personal insult El3k0n.

Nxt Funds have NXT. If NXT is worth 1/32 of what it is worth today, then Nxt Funds have 1/32 of the actual dollars or Euros or gold or whatever to pay real devs, server costs, etc.



msin, I agree with you on every point you made except the part where you said you wouldn't mind if the Nxt market cap went to $1 mil.

Nxt whales have already taken $18 million of market cap out of Nxt from 50 million to 32 million today. Nxt needs new investors and needs the market cap to grow NOW. Nxt needs that market cap (price of NXT) to grow in order to attract new investors.

NXT Whales. Stop Dumping and give Nxt time to release AE. Thanks. You've taken your profit. Now invest in the future of Nxt.

Only idiots care about market cap. It's a meaningless number.

Sorry, I didn't want to say you're an idiot. I meant that only idiots care about market cap when making an investment. No serious trader/investor would base his decision on the market cap, because it doesn't mean anything.
you are very wrong and what you said makes no sense. so market cap is completely irrelevant when it takes to investment decisions? is it the same thing to buy apple stocks at 1m market cap or 450b dollars then? after all market cap is stupid

Selling Qora for 5 satoshi each.
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March 18, 2014, 05:20:32 PM
 #45768


Yes of course some services like AM it can indexed per bytes but other
can be indexed per amount transacted

all AE like  Cryptsy, BTC, Bitstamp use % amount transacted
We're going to reinvent the wheel?
why not?

what this clear that will be a lot more economical to maintain than BTC network or clones

NXT AE, is, by definition, 'reinventing the wheel'.  You have to have a better reason than, 'thats the way its always been done'.  The other argument is basing everything on size in the blockchain.  Please argue your reason of % based with its own merits, or argue reasons against our suggestion.

Alright.

Say there is a transaction A and B. A is 100 MB large and B is 10kB tiny.
Nodes can and will refuse A just because it is toooo big EXCEPT A gives the right incentive to verify, store and re-broadcast A. The fee is this incentive.

Each node can choose with pricing model it uses:
 - fees should depend only on payload
 - fees should depend on the amount of time it might require: bigger transactions like A need more time, encrypted messages might need more time, asset transactions might need more time THAN a simple transaction
 - fees could depend on both

Node providers (that is a guy running a set of nodes) can freely decide which transactions his nodes will process.

Does that make it clearer?

You seem to believe NXT block generation is a free market commodity auction, where I can throw a transaction up for someone to give me the lowest price to include it into a block, and I then choose someone to forge my block.  What you are suggesting will break instant transactions, one of the big cornerstones of what NXT is intended to do.
what you are suggesting allows for collusion, not exactly ideal for our trustless model.
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March 18, 2014, 05:29:31 PM
 #45769

OK a few more people chiming in... good lets get some traction.  Do we know what the smallest possible size transaction is?  Assuming that it is 128bytes like a NXT transfer is, IMO we need something even smaller than .1 NXT, I would prefer at least .01 NXT as smallest possible amount, then scaling up from there.  But that is a different conversation on the base transfer size/fee ratio is.

Currently a basic NXT payment transaction is 128 bytes: 1 byte for type tag, 1 byte for sub-type tag, 4 bytes for time stamp, 2 bytes for deadline, 32 bytes for sender's public key, 8 bytes for payee's account number, 4 bytes for the amount, 4 bytes for the fee, 8 bytes for the referenced transaction ID, and finally 64 bytes for the cryptographic signature.  All transaction types will have these base fields, then add more depending on the features.  For example, an AM transaction contains the above plus 4 bytes for AM buffer size, then the number of bytes specified by that size.

This base size of 128 bytes may change (get larger) in the future depending on how adding precision to NXT is done.  JL would have to clarify his plan on this.

"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov
bitcoinpaul
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March 18, 2014, 05:30:05 PM
 #45770

a. voting by account or by shares? (pandoras ballot box)

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March 18, 2014, 05:31:41 PM
 #45771

It's funny the other day I was on my dedicated Nxt node forging computer (I often forget it's even on), it's a Gigabyte Brix that sits in the corner of my desk.  I decided to sync my Bitcoin wallet on the same machine.  When I opened bitcoin-qt I thought my Brix was going to explode.  CPU 100%, Fan running full blast, everything completely slow.  I quickly shutdown bitcoin-qt and let the machine relax running Nxt.  I then sent out some Nxt donations which went out instantly and sat back and drank a beer, wondering why BTC is so popular.

Please post on reddit Smiley
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March 18, 2014, 05:33:54 PM
 #45772

nxt voting must be based on stake. All other solutions are wrong. There is no chance to have verified accs in decentralized apps

Nxt tips: NXT-R67P-6BZ2-XWAK-8RHZR | Nxt forum | Nxt Academy | Donate for Nxt at the Universities // BTCD: RVMLrnxYYy7uy8YZo9FcGfXbk1ZMnNifdg
utopianfuture
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March 18, 2014, 05:44:21 PM
 #45773

nxt voting must be based on stake. All other solutions are wrong. There is no chance to have verified accs in decentralized apps

Could you remind me what method that you guys just got voted to various committees ?


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March 18, 2014, 05:45:15 PM
 #45774

Here is a little discuss about the style of the probably promo video.
Quote from: d13id
Quote from: Mario
I like the style of these movies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmOzih6I1zs

The style of the current "What is Nxt" video is very technical and boring (boring for non-nxters). The style is very important, also for our future marketing campaigns.
I want a happy mood and friendly video for the Asset Exchange. d13id, are you able to deliver something like that?
I could use it as reference. But are you shure that your opinion is the right one? Anyway I think that we shouldn't make the decision only by ourselves. Let's see what the others think about it.
And I'd like to repeat that I could do something similar to the bitcoin video.

If you have an opinion comment please.

msin
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March 18, 2014, 05:46:30 PM
 #45775

Can we port Nxt over to this?  http://www.wolfram.com/language/  Smiley
msin
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March 18, 2014, 05:47:23 PM
 #45776

nxt voting must be based on stake. All other solutions are wrong. There is no chance to have verified accs in decentralized apps

Could you remind me what method that you guys just got voted to various committees ?

Ask RickyJames
ChuckOne
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March 18, 2014, 05:51:18 PM
 #45777

nxt voting must be based on stake. All other solutions are wrong. There is no chance to have verified accs in decentralized apps

Not quite true. The voting system does not define the evaluation of the results. It is totally up to the use case.
ChuckOne
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March 18, 2014, 05:52:30 PM
 #45778

Can we port Nxt over to this?  http://www.wolfram.com/language/  Smiley

Could you be a bit more specific?
utopianfuture
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March 18, 2014, 05:53:59 PM
 #45779

nxt voting must be based on stake. All other solutions are wrong. There is no chance to have verified accs in decentralized apps

Could you remind me what method that you guys just got voted to various committees ?

Ask RickyJames

it is stake based, isn't it ?


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msin
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March 18, 2014, 05:59:43 PM
 #45780

Can we port Nxt over to this?  http://www.wolfram.com/language/  Smiley

Could you be a bit more specific?

No, just joking, although I like see the new language.
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