[BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process

[kingcrimson]

1-Ukyo gambled all the funds on failed stocks

As posted on another thread, to my knowledge this is not the case.

I don't know precisely how Neo will be helping Ukyo but I certainly can't see it being based on selling stock today on Havelock. I think that'd be possible to spot and would make no sense; there's also virtually no liquidity.

Neo's price is hurting because of the Bitcoin price. Neo's actual operation is going great guns but dividends aren't payable for quite some time.

What is your role in NeoBee and bitfunder?

[pascal257]

1-Ukyo gambled all the funds on failed stocks

As posted on another thread, to my knowledge this is not the case.

I don't know precisely how Neo will be helping Ukyo but I certainly can't see it being based on selling stock today on Havelock. I think that'd be possible to spot and would make no sense; there's also virtually no liquidity.

Neo's price is hurting because of the Bitcoin price. Neo's actual operation is going great guns but dividends aren't payable for quite some time.

What is your role in NeoBee and bitfunder?

He's just a general Ukyo/BitFunder fanboi.

[ffssixtynine]

What is your role in NeoBee and bitfunder?

Over 75 BTC stuck and I raised the alarm first of anyone. I didn't know either party until this happened.

Ukyo has been on the other end of my anger as tat will attest to (he told me off!), as will others who had been present on irc when this blew up. I am also not anonymous.

However, I understand that the most important thing is fixing this mess and made myself available to help. To that end, I was allowed limited extra knowledge on a confidential basis to evidence that things are being done as they need to be. One or two others have helped in similar ways, but I have agreed to post as such despite the flack that results. The point is that Ukyo is not the only person trying to get things moving.

If it ever gets to the point where I think something dubious is going on, I'll say so. I have a shed load more money at stake than most of you which tends to concentrate the mind on moving forwards. What matters is Ukyo getting the situation back where he should be so we can all get on with our bitcoin lives.

If you're feeling like I am, Bitcoin's recent climb is leaving you less than celebratory as a result of stuck funds. However, feeling crap or angry doesn't get things done.

As for the havelock suggestion - look at the figures. I don't think the daily liquidity even gets close to covering  half what I have stuck, and there are people who have posted larger amounts than me. It's just a non starter. Whatever help they give, a few havelock shares isn't it.

[ninjaboon]

Hello everyone,

I know everyone here is waiting for "the big announcement".

I have been brought in by Jon (Ukyo) to help with the situation. For those who do not know me, I am Danny Brewster of Neo & Bee (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.0;topicseen) Neo & Bee has agreed to take an active role in ensuring this situation gets resolved.

I have a full understanding of the situation and have agreed to work with Jon to help sort out the problem in the best and quickest manner possible. At this point in time it is no longer possible to be immediately able to pay out all users. Jon has been working to ensure that a process is in place to remedy this situation and to ensure that all users get the bitcoins owed to them. This is the unfortunate reality of the situation. The biggest question is going to be “why or how has this happened?” I will be providing the answer in full, however right now it is impossible for what I would describe as legal reasons, but the answers are coming, that I promise, but cannot give an exact time as to when this information can be made public.

To this end, we would like to ask that everyone continues to be patient while the final preparations are put in place that will allow for users to enable recovery of their funds, the holidays in the United States are not helping with this specific matter in the slightest.

Everyone at Neo & Bee are now involved in this resolution process.

Unlike other situations where an inability to payout bitcoins to users has occurred, Jon has been fully committed to ensuring that payouts will happen. He has not gone into hiding and continues to try to make himself available to people on IRC on a fairly consistent basis. You have trusted Jon with your bitcoins and as of right now, you are being told that there is no immediate solution. At this point, Jon has two options: first he can continue to work with the community to ensure that the issue is resolved properly, or he can throw his hands up and simply say "sorry, there’s nothing I can do". I prefer option one as I think many of you will as well, so that is why I am throwing myself and my team behind this effort to ensure solutions are implemented and successful.

I know both myself and Jon would like to be able to post everything out in the open to give a full explanation about everything that has brought everyone into this position and what is currently going on to resolve this issue. I understand that this is not the optimal solution for any one person, however we believe that it is the best solution for everyone.

You can have my word that everything conceivably possible, to resolve these problems are being done to the best of our abilities.

I would like to thank you for your understanding and cooperation so far and we look forward to having this situation resolved as soon as possible.

Sounds good.  I still have a balance in Weex (since 17 nov 2013). Hope this settles before Christmas.

[gambitv]

Interesting Thread. I just see it as tarnishing the reputations of both services now. Only those who love the thrill of gambling will trust bitcoin 'businesses' now.

Would be nice to get my bitcoins back like everyone else.  Pity a good service is now associated with a new service that has yet to prove itself.  Proves to me they do not know how to build reputation. Just seems all to shady to me, to come out with this announcement.

[ArcticWolf]

Interesting Thread. I just see it as tarnishing the reputations of both services now. Only those who love the thrill of gambling will trust bitcoin 'businesses' now.

Would be nice to get my bitcoins back like everyone else.  Pity a good service is now associated with a new service that has yet to prove itself.  Proves to me they do not know how to build reputation. Just seems all to shady to me, to come out with this announcement.

Perhaps they are confident that this will be resolved quicky and amicably, and that this will help Neo & Bee build trust from the community. I cant see a new startup getting involved in this unless they were certain they could help.

[mgio]

I'm the largest single ukyo.loan shareholder and I'm also significantly invested in Neo&Bee and I think this is great news! Not that anyone cares, lol. There is at least one person out there who still believes in Ukyo and Neo&Bee, though. Good luck to you both and I hope this all gets sorted out quickly.

[thecoinjournal]

I'm the largest single ukyo.loan shareholder and I'm also significantly invested in Neo&Bee and I think this is great news! Not that anyone cares, lol. There is at least one person out there who still believes in Ukyo and Neo&Bee, though. Good luck to you both and I hope this all gets sorted out quickly.

At least two.

[malkusch]

I think this is likely what is happening:

1-Ukyo gambled all the funds on failed stocks, has nothing

2-NeoBee gave him a ton of IPVO shares in exchange for WeExchange ownership.

3-The hope is that NeoBee brings out news that will boost the share price, so Ukyo can sell the shares and pay everyone back. This could also be the cause of the massive NeoBee sell-off we've seen in the last 24 hours.

There is exactly no information what happened. So why not add to your list:

4-while fixing the bug with bitcoind they discovered a flaw in the protocol which would crash bitcoin and its derivates instantly to Zero.

This would even go perfectly with Ukyo's hint that his "announcement" might affect the exchange rate. It's all boring speculation which doesn't help nobody to solve the problem.

I'm the largest single ukyo.loan shareholder and I'm also significantly invested in Neo&Bee and I think this is great news! Not that anyone cares, lol. There is at least one person out there who still believes in Ukyo and Neo&Bee, though. Good luck to you both and I hope this all gets sorted out quickly.

Three

[jimmothy]

I think this is likely what is happening:

1-Ukyo gambled all the funds on failed stocks, has nothing

2-NeoBee gave him a ton of IPVO shares in exchange for WeExchange ownership.

3-The hope is that NeoBee brings out news that will boost the share price, so Ukyo can sell the shares and pay everyone back. This could also be the cause of the massive NeoBee sell-off we've seen in the last 24 hours.

There is exactly no information what happened. So why not add to your list:

4-while fixing the bug with bitcoind they discovered a flaw in the protocol which would crash bitcoin and its derivates instantly to Zero.

This would even go perfectly with Ukyo's hint that his "announcement" might affect the exchange rate. It's all boring speculation which doesn't help nobody to solve the problem.

I'm the largest single ukyo.loan shareholder and I'm also significantly invested in Neo&Bee and I think this is great news! Not that anyone cares, lol. There is at least one person out there who still believes in Ukyo and Neo&Bee, though. Good luck to you both and I hope this all gets sorted out quickly.

Three

4 Would be pretty damn scary but I doubt it is the case. Why would ukyo and cryptocyprus team be working on fixing the bitcoind protocol instead of the lead devs?

Seems to me the most likely case is that the bitcoins are literally gone or not possible to access.

I don't think it is an argument of whether ukyo can handle the challenges he faces, it is the fact that we have no idea what challenges he is facing that is seen as the major problem by most. If we could just know what happened I am sure it would put the community at rest and possibly a community effort is what would be needed to fix whatever problem. Either way there is 1.5 million USD worth of the communities bitcoins and nobody but a selected few know what is going on.

[malkusch]

4-while fixing the bug with bitcoind they discovered a flaw in the protocol which would crash bitcoin and its derivates instantly to Zero.

4 Would be pretty damn scary but I doubt it is the case. Why would ukyo and cryptocyprus team be working on fixing the bitcoind protocol instead of the lead devs?

They would of course, but in the meantime for bitcoin's survival they have to keep silence and calm the mob which is organizing a witch hunt.

If we could just know what happened I am sure it would put the community at rest

Please don't understand me wrong. I definately have no reason to believe that 4 is the case. I try to help to imagine that there might be problems which are better not comunicated until they are sorted out.

[ldrgn]

Massive, massive insolvency.

[iSnow]

4-while fixing the bug with bitcoind they discovered a flaw in the protocol which would crash bitcoin and its derivates instantly to Zero.

If that were the case he could still alarm Gavin and the dev team and pay out the bitcoins to his customers. This idea makes no sense.

[101111]

At least 4, fwiw

[kano]

4-while fixing the bug with bitcoind they discovered a flaw in the protocol which would crash bitcoin and its derivates instantly to Zero.

If that were the case he could still alarm Gavin and the dev team and pay out the bitcoins to his customers. This idea makes no sense.

Please ignore these comments about the bitcoin protocol.
They are purely rubbish.

[jimmothy]

4-while fixing the bug with bitcoind they discovered a flaw in the protocol which would crash bitcoin and its derivates instantly to Zero.

If that were the case he could still alarm Gavin and the dev team and pay out the bitcoins to his customers. This idea makes no sense.

Please ignore these comments about the bitcoin protocol.
They are purely rubbish.

I agree it is complete speculation but I cant think of a single other case where this kind of secrecy would be acceptable

[everbox]

I have 56 btc on weexchange.co , when those money can withdraw...

[kano]

4-while fixing the bug with bitcoind they discovered a flaw in the protocol which would crash bitcoin and its derivates instantly to Zero.

If that were the case he could still alarm Gavin and the dev team and pay out the bitcoins to his customers. This idea makes no sense.

Please ignore these comments about the bitcoin protocol.
They are purely rubbish.

I agree it is complete speculation but I cant think of a single other case where this kind of secrecy would be acceptable

No, it's not speculation, it's rubbish.
It's not the reason.

[lophie]

4-while fixing the bug with bitcoind they discovered a flaw in the protocol which would crash bitcoin and its derivates instantly to Zero.

If that were the case he could still alarm Gavin and the dev team and pay out the bitcoins to his customers. This idea makes no sense.

Please ignore these comments about the bitcoin protocol.
They are purely rubbish.

I agree it is complete speculation but I cant think of a single other case where this kind of secrecy would be acceptable

No, it's not speculation, it's rubbish.
It's not the reason.

It is not rubbish he indeed discovered a flaw in the Bitcoin protocol. The flaw is if you ever gave your bitcoins to a person in promise for them to return the bitcoins, they might run away with your them.

[moribana]

It is not rubbish he indeed discovered a flaw in the Bitcoin protocol. The flaw is if you ever gave your bitcoins to a person in promise for them to return the bitcoins, they might run away with your them.

To be fair, this bug was discovered much earlier by many others. Ukyo cannot claim priority here