[BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process

[incite]

ukyo does not need to be in cyprus. he could do everything he needs to do from the U.S on the phone. Has Danny given him a job "office window licker"

[donut]

4) Please don't release his address - it'll change his life into nightmare - even if he stole from PPL a lot of BTC he doesn't deserve to be hurt - everyone has right to fair process - legal actions are most fair for everyone

I think that's the idea here, is it not? Why doesn't he deserve it when he made other people's lives into a nightmare?

[kslaughter]

4) Please don't release his address - it'll change his life into nightmare - even if he stole from PPL a lot of BTC he doesn't deserve to be hurt - everyone has right to fair process - legal actions are most fair for everyone

I think that's the idea here, is it not? Why doesn't he deserve it when he made other people's lives into a nightmare?

Yes, but to take legal action you need to serve him and for that you need his address.  Anyone needing his address just PM me.

[SebastianJu]

4) Please don't release his address - it'll change his life into nightmare - even if he stole from PPL a lot of BTC he doesn't deserve to be hurt - everyone has right to fair process - legal actions are most fair for everyone

I think that's the idea here, is it not? Why doesn't he deserve it when he made other people's lives into a nightmare?

Yes, but to take legal action you need to serve him and for that you need his address.  Anyone needing his address just PM me.

I only hope that doesnt lead to everything blocked by the police... so that it takes months or years to see anything back... normally i think they would speak to him, he explains that he works to repair the software and they go again...

[ffssixtynine]

4) Please don't release his address - it'll change his life into nightmare - even if he stole from PPL a lot of BTC he doesn't deserve to be hurt - everyone has right to fair process - legal actions are most fair for everyone

I think that's the idea here, is it not? Why doesn't he deserve it when he made other people's lives into a nightmare?

It's not even that; people need to ensure they comply with the law themselves. The correct way to do things, if not waiting it out, is through a lawyer. The law doesn't care about who deserved what.

Even if you think he did steal coins, that needs to be dealt with legally and proved. All people know is that most coins are not available and there are a number of reasons that may be.

The chances of Neo & Bee being involved if they believed ukyo to be pulling a fast one are somewhere between zero and none. Even if it were found that he did something bad, Neo & Bee would do whatever they think would help get the coins back and then he'd have to face up to the law anyway. Cyprus is in the EU - not exactly running away. It's also rather easier to get help by being where the team is, right? Neo & Bee are not a one man operation, they're possibly the biggest Bitcoin start-up in operation.

Seb, if the worst happened and it came down to legal action, there will be little if anything for account holders and yes it would take many months. It's why grief aimed at Neo, who are trying to help, by people with money at stake is short sighted. Ukyo, well, this is his company whatever has happened so people have a right to be angry, but Neo are trying to help fix it.

[VolanicEruptor]

You don't need lawyers, and you don't need money to go after Ukyo.
The real step is to file a formal complaint with the SEC.  People have a misconception on here that they only deal with shutting down exchanges.  No.. they have even busted ponzi schemes and have in many cases returned the money to the victims (the term "securities" and "shares" cover a very large array of situations, and pretty much anything that requires an investment from the victim).  In fact they will reward you 10-15% if it leads to recovering at least $1 million of funds through federal prosecution (read their website).  This is the cheapest way..  and the best way IMO

At this point, SEC is our friend.. and yes they handle international cases too if the scammer is in the US

[SebastianJu]

You don't need lawyers, and you don't need money to go after Ukyo.
The real step is to file a formal complaint with the SEC.  People have a misconception on here that they only deal with shutting down exchanges.  No.. they have even busted ponzi schemes and have in many cases returned the money to the victims (the term "securities" and "shares" cover a very large array of situations, and pretty much anything that requires an investment from the victim).  In fact they will reward you 10-15% if it leads to recovering at least $1 million of funds through federal prosecution (read their website).  This is the cheapest way..  and the best way IMO

At this point, SEC is our friend.. and yes they handle international cases too if the scammer is in the US

Ok... so what would they do? Probably visiting him and questioning. He claims the wallet software is faulty and shows the help he hired. SEC will go.
The worse effect would be they dont believe it and... cant repair anything either. But they block anything to prevent he steals something. In a couple of months a case at court starts and and and.

Even though i think ukyo's silence is stupid, i think they should get some time to work on it. I mean it looks like they are in cyprus now and work together on the problem. Hopefully with more effect than ukyo alone.

[crumbs]

You don't need lawyers, and you don't need money to go after Ukyo.
The real step is to file a formal complaint with the SEC.  People have a misconception on here that they only deal with shutting down exchanges.  No.. they have even busted ponzi schemes and have in many cases returned the money to the victims (the term "securities" and "shares" cover a very large array of situations, and pretty much anything that requires an investment from the victim).  In fact they will reward you 10-15% if it leads to recovering at least $1 million of funds through federal prosecution (read their website).  This is the cheapest way..  and the best way IMO

At this point, SEC is our friend.. and yes they handle international cases too if the scammer is in the US

Ok... so what would they do? Probably visiting him and questioning. He claims the wallet software is faulty and shows the help he hired. SEC will go.
...

No.  He broke the law long before the money disappeared.  As soon as he offered unregistered securities to US persons, laws were broken.  As soon as he started dealing in unregistered securities as a US person, other laws were broken.  The missing coins are just icing on the crime cake.  Securities fraud is exactly what the SEC is set up to deal with.

[discobean]

Please transfer my G.ASICMINER-PT shares to direct shares!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does anybody know when this will happen?  It is a bit ridiculous

[moribana]

The chances of Neo & Bee being involved if they believed ukyo to be pulling a fast one are somewhere between zero and none. Even if it were found that he did something bad, Neo & Bee would do whatever they think would help get the coins back and then he'd have to face up to the law anyway.

I am sorry to say but another more likely interpretation is that Neo & Bee are trying to cover up what Ukyo did, in order to buy him time. The confused communication from Danny makes this more likely than your interpretation. The last thing is that on Friday he delays his update to Saturday saying that by that time he would be able to give more detailed information. And then on Saturday, without any further explanation, he fails to provide any new information, not to mention anything _detailed_. How do you interpret this?

You might have much more information than most of us and might know what has happened. I do not want to pass judgement, simply because I do not have enough information. All I am saying is that appearances suggest that the scenario I described is more likely, therefore I cannot blame anybody for being doubtful. In fact, reading Danny's communication reminds many of us of Labcoin. In this sort of situation making promises you cannot deliver on and giving out ambiguous and incomplete pieces of information (like "coins are gone") inevitably makes the impression that they want to cover up something shady.

[glendall]

Ya this is exactly what I predicted would happen a few weeks back. We will get a bunch more 'updates' that tell us nothing until they just stop altogether. I call it the 'BFL it's coming in 2 weeks' manoeuvre.

Let's look at this really simply. Dude is responsible for over 2 million. That's a lot.  He won't even tell us what happened to them. Why could he not tell us? What valid reason could their possibly be for not telling us what happened.

First it was a 'bitcoind problem'. The money was there he just couldn't get to it. Now over a month later this has changed to 'the coins are gone'.

So I'll make another prediction for some of you with your heads in the sand.

We'll get another update saying that 'big news is coming in a week' and then when the big news comes again it'll be along the lines of 'We are getting close to a solution but we can't talk about it. We should have this wrapped up any day now! Will post an update next week.'  Then two more of those, and in a 1.5 months or so he'll disappear. All the while people could have actually done something but where strung along.

(I'd be THRILLED to be wrong.)

[WeexUser]

Let's look at this really simply. Dude is responsible for over 2 million. That's a lot.  He won't even tell us what happened to them. Why could he not tell us? What valid reason could their possibly be for not telling us what happened.

Legal reasons. Governments are not fun to play with.  

First it was a 'bitcoind problem'. The money was there he just couldn't get to it. Now over a month later this has changed to 'the coins are gone'.

The fact that the coins are gone aren't news.. Danny said that already in November.

We'll get another update saying that 'big news is coming in a week'...

Neo&Bee just announced that it will be possible to buy bitcoins for cash in UK, USA, Russia, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and more to come. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364485.0
How that is connected to the weex issue is unknown but they said that the "big news" would be very good for bitcoin so I believe its connected somehow.

[crumbs]

...
The chances of Neo & Bee being involved if they believed ukyo to be pulling a fast one are somewhere between zero and none.
...

Well, no.  The chances, at this point, are 100%.  Ukyo broke the law by running an illegal exchange, by offering unregistered securities to US persons, etc., etc.  There is no question that Neo & Bee are willing to be involved with a criminal -- they are.  The only question is, what kind of a criminal Ukyo is.  Whether he simply ran afoul of securities law, or if he actually stole coin.

[krimsonkla]

No one here seems to really get it.

This information was posted before but I guess not everyone has kept up with the thread. Go ahead and try to file something with the SEC if you like however I don't believe it will do you any good. There is a WeExchange registered in the US however the actual website site is registered and owned by WeExchange Australia PTY.LTD. (ACN: 152 308 23). With Graeme Tee (Graet) and Jon Montroll (Ukyo) as the sole owners/directors. Nowhere within the United States legal system can I find anything that links the US company with the actual website or Australian organization.

All of this has been previously posted

All documentation supporting documentation for this claim can be found here:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bza0Sx1iSRWqYVRiMkRaLVlrcFE&usp=sharing

A sample ASIC (Australian Securities and Investment Commission) can be found here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bza0Sx1iSRWqODhZMktJdW9sMjA/edit?usp=sharing

A free text sample of the complaint can be found here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bza0Sx1iSRWqNjhEdHRhM2RLMzA/edit?usp=sharing

A conversation with  Graeme regarding my intent to file an ASIC complaint can be found here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bza0Sx1iSRWqZEVscUZFeDVJaFE/edit?usp=sharing

A conversation with Ukyo where he states that I may, if I wish, file an ASIC complaint and it will be handled appropriately.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bza0Sx1iSRWqZEVscUZFeDVJaFE/edit?usp=sharing

The involvement of Neo & Bee at this point can only be a good thing. Based on the above documentation, it was already a really good guess that our funds with WeExchange were gone. While I believe that Jon is trying his best to redeem the situation, his management of it too date has been very poor.

Neo & Bee just got involved in this situation and as mentioned previously by others, they are trying to help. Lets give them that chance before going on the offensive with them. I for one am glad they are involved and have stated that they are working toward some means to return everyones coins to them. The coins with WeExchange are gone and someone is going out of their way to try and help you get them back!

If you feel you need to take action, the ASIC forms are provided above, and you are free to contact a lawyer for legal advice at any time. Continuing to complain on these forums is a waste of everyones time.

KrimsonKla

[Kouye]

The involvement of Neo & Bee at this point can only be a good thing.

No. It looks to me that Neo&Bee tries to setup an exchange using some BTC of ukyo initial stash (hence the silent deal), and hopes for a retaining some strategy to pay back (insert any figure<70)% the weexchange mugus. After which both have their names cleared/are considered as heroes.

[krimsonkla]

If that is the case, I welcome it!!! My WeExchange coins are gone and through this deal, if it did exist, I might actually get something back! Awesome!

[crumbs]

No one here seems to really get it.

This information was posted before but I guess not everyone has kept up with the thread. Go ahead and try to file something with the SEC if you like however I don't believe it will do you any good. There is a WeExchange registered in the US however the actual website site is registered and owned by WeExchange Australia PTY.LTD. (ACN: 152 308 23). With Graeme Tee (Graet) and Jon Montroll (Ukyo) as the sole owners/directors. Nowhere within the United States legal system can I find anything that links the US company with the actual website or Australian organization.
...

Yes.  This is old news.  WeExchange is registered in AU, though not as an exchange, and not that that's relevant -- BTCT was registered in Belize.  The laws Ukyo broke were US laws, by selling unregistered securities to US persons.  That does the trick as far as the SEC is concerned.  There's a slew of other laws broken -- let's not bullshit each other.  Ukyo is also a US citizen, thus putting him square in the SEC's crosshairs as a prime candidate for pwnage.  Remember, he ran his exchange long after Burnside shut down his.  That wins him no brownie points.
If i'm understanding you correctly, and you're implying that Ukyo (and i don't understand why people insist on using his full name here) broke no laws, you're simply wrong.

[krimsonkla]

Nope, not saying in anyway that laws were not broken. They obviously were, and we all knew that when we invested our coins! What I am saying is he is not alone in this endeavor, he has a partner everyone seems to forget about, and the quickest link to follow from the site to law enforcement would be via the website and business registration.

That said, any involvement of SEC or ASIC will more than likely not result in any of your funds being returned to you. ASIC actually states that you would need to attempt that on your own.

If people are not willing to try and legally get their funds back, and also are unwilling to pursue the criminal route, continued posting here is pointless.

[Kouye]

Please investigate, and think, before sending any satoshi to the brand new neo&ukyo exchange.

[crumbs]

Nope, not saying in anyway that laws were not broken. They obviously were, and we all knew that when we invested our coins! What I am saying is he is not alone in this endeavor, he has a partner everyone seems to forget about, and the quickest link to follow from the site to law enforcement would be via the website and business registration.

That said, any involvement of SEC or ASIC will more than likely not result in any of your funds being returned to you. ASIC actually states that you would need to attempt that on your own.

If people are not willing to try and legally get their funds back, and also are unwilling to pursue the criminal route, continued posting here is pointless.

In that case we agree.  I'm not suggesting that people should turn to the government that they despise as soon as their unicorn takes a dump.  That's weak.  I'm just pointing out that the cheerleaders, and Danny himself, are provoking people to bring in the law. That's simply stupid -- it only takes one pissed off guy.