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Author Topic: [BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process  (Read 290742 times)
moribana
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December 07, 2013, 01:45:02 PM
 #201

Bitcoin is working fine. The main problem is that so many people believe(d) that because something is related to bitcoin, that no laws apply and you can just freely break security regulations all over the world, along with violating money transmitter licence requirements and AML regulations.


Bitcoin may not be broken per se... What is broken is human integrity.


I have to disagree with both of you. The problem is not with Bitcoin or with human integrity. The problem is the same as it has always been - governments. Government regulation is what screwed up the regular financial system and funneled all the money to the so-called 1%. And government regulation is now doing the same to Bitcoin.
Government regulation shut down btct.co, costing a lot of people a lot of money, all in the name of 'protecting investors'. And then the same happened to BitFunder. From Danny's squirming legalese, it is clear that the problem he's helping Ukyo with is a legal one. He can't access the Bitcoins because some government froze them (I think we can all guess which one) and that same government is preventing him from publicly discussing the legal negotiations they are now involved in.
That is also why he claims the solution will be good for the entire Bitcoin ecosystem - because it might clear up the regulatory status of BTC-denominated securities.

For now, I have to begrudgingly support Danny's negotiating efforts, if only in order to get my money back. But if governments kept their dirty hands off Bitcoin, we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.

+1
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December 07, 2013, 01:45:49 PM
 #202

So do you believe that we get our coins back this year ?

The process of receiving them will start this week.

Thanks that give a little hope to me..


 
 
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Puppet
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December 07, 2013, 01:48:01 PM
 #203

Yeah for you, and a small number of tech heads who get how to secure their coins, it's all good.

Admittedly, securely storing coins is not trivial for non-nerds today, but thats being worked on. Check out trezor and similar hardware wallets. There are quite good reasons why bitcoin hasnt taken over the world yet, the ecosystem just isnt ready for it yet. If you arent able to handle its rough edges (or price volatility), you should just wait. Not everyone can be an early adopter.

Quote
Bitcoin may not be broken per se... What is broken is human integrity. And if this tiny community can't prove to the rest of the world what a great thing bitcoin can potentially be without robbing each other blind at evey opportunity, then what's the point?

You mean like gold and cash are broken or pointless because you cant rely on them not being stolen if you dont secure them ? Its not like paypal and credit cards are fraud free either.

anyway /OT
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December 07, 2013, 01:53:02 PM
 #204

Let me know where to find you so I can get your apology very shortly.

You can find me here: 15dW73VvMJ12B9osabWog35KpdczxmjxdT
Painful NOT to be the first Bitcoin bank isn't it?
Your attitude towards Danny here explains why you did not achieve it - he is a professional and you a rookie wannabe professional.
Step back boy, the pros are here!

How is the volume going in Bitcoin Central? Not very big eh? I wonder why...
twentyseventy
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December 07, 2013, 01:56:04 PM
 #205

Apologies for the slight delay in getting this information out.

Jon (Ukyo) is now here with me in Cyprus to ensure this problem is resolved for everyone involved.

The bitcoins are simply not there anymore, we are continuing to work through the implementation of a number of solutions to correct the issue. We are hoping to have one of many very important announcements before the Christmas holidays that will enable the bitcoins to be returned to those that are owed, however the run up to the holiday period may cause delays in some aspects.

The solution will take time to pay everyone in full however, there will be no preferential payments and the payments will be distributed proportionally.

A full explanation as to why the bitcoins are no longer there, will be provided as soon as we possibly can.

Neo & Bee has no exposure to the liabilities of WeExchange. The solution will enable Neo & Bee and all of those involved in Bitcoin to benefit greatly in the future.

THIS is the update that contained 'more than previously planned'? What did you originally have to update - that Ukyo is now in Cyprus? Or the non-update that everyone isn't getting all of their coins back?

These updates are a joke. 'We're working on it with Ukyo' isn't an update. Mark my words, this will be a bad project to have undertaken for Neo & Bee.
Maybe not financially, but definitely in terms of trust and PR.
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December 07, 2013, 01:57:29 PM
 #206

But if governments kept their dirty hands off Bitcoin, we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.

Are you blaming government intervention also for inputs.io, labcoin, pirateat40, and countless other scams?
ITs been crystal clear from day 1 that these bitcoin security issuers and exchanges are violating relevant laws in just about any country on earth.

Now you may object to laws that require security issuers to register their shares, make certain disclosures etc, you may think its a good idea that an anonymous entity operating from a phone-boot in Nigeria can legally operate a money exchange and hold millions of dollars of other people's coins with no verification, oversight or accountability, but then you should protest those laws instead of blaming government for enforcing them when someone knowingly violates them.

Personally, I think bitcoin asset market is doing a very good job proving why there is a need for at least some sensible regulation and oversight, just leaving it up to the free market makes it a paradise for scammers and a useless minefield for investors.
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December 07, 2013, 02:05:32 PM
 #207

Yeah for you, and a small number of tech heads who get how to secure their coins, it's all good.

Admittedly, securely storing coins is not trivial for non-nerds today, but thats being worked on. Check out trezor and similar hardware wallets. There are quite good reasons why bitcoin hasnt taken over the world yet, the ecosystem just isnt ready for it yet. If you arent able to handle its rough edges (or price volatility), you should just wait. Not everyone can be an early adopter.

Quote
Bitcoin may not be broken per se... What is broken is human integrity. And if this tiny community can't prove to the rest of the world what a great thing bitcoin can potentially be without robbing each other blind at evey opportunity, then what's the point?

You mean like gold and cash are broken or pointless because you cant rely on them not being stolen if you dont secure them ? Its not like paypal and credit cards are fraud free either.

anyway /OT

Trust me dude, I've been in this awhile so I've heard and argued for everything that your saying over and over since '11. Since then it's been one heist after another.

You can defend it all you want but all I'm saying is when it comes down to it, human greed fucks up the money everytime. And if it's in this format, already hard for the layman to "get it," and all they see is this kinda bs happening within the "ecosystem," then why would they want to trust the bitcoin or it's network at all. Just stay with the old system.
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December 07, 2013, 02:16:42 PM
 #208

Within 12 months we'll have far more secure ways to store Bitcoins, including with third parties. It's definitely needed. Neo themselves will be doing it in Cyprus, someone else is doing it in the US, we have Trezor coming, and probably numerous other options. Knybe, in fact bitcoin can be extremely secure but getting multi sig into an easily usable format has proved tricky and there hasn't been enough incentive to do it until recently.

As for regulation, that would maybe help but it would also have prevented many of these opportunities in the first place. Now, however, we should have exchanges regulated in some form for customer protection purposes. Not bitcoin itself, but exchanges or places hosting 3rd party wallets.

For those of you complaining about not getting our coins back, please read the post. The coins are not there for some reason, whatever that is, but neo have stepped in the find a way to get our coins back. Neo did not cause the problem, they are offering a solution which involves fully refunding everyone if it all works out.

So if you would prefer that neo don't help or you are going to give them grief then I'd have to question how much you really have at stake and/or your common sense. Or if you are just trolling.
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December 07, 2013, 02:30:52 PM
 #209

So do you believe that we get our coins back this year ?

The process of receiving them will start this week.

Does this include the coins from ukyo.loan too? Or just the coins stuck on bitfunder and weexchange?
I'm owed nearly 250 btc from ukyo.loan. I think I might actually be ukyo's largest creditor.
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December 07, 2013, 02:48:48 PM
 #210

So do you believe that we get our coins back this year ?

The process of receiving them will start this week.

Does this include the coins from ukyo.loan too? Or just the coins stuck on bitfunder and weexchange?
I'm owed nearly 250 btc from ukyo.loan. I think I might actually be ukyo's largest creditor.

I am helping him solve that issue too
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December 07, 2013, 02:59:01 PM
 #211

Are you blaming government intervention also for inputs.io, labcoin, pirateat40, and countless other scams?

Not at all, I'm just saying you can't necessarily blame lack of government regulation for their existence either. Government regulation usually ends up fighting small scams and enabling large scams.


ITs been crystal clear from day 1 that these bitcoin security issuers and exchanges are violating relevant laws in just about any country on earth.

Of course, but that alone doesn't make them scams. They could violate every law imaginable and still benefit their investors, as some Bitcoin securities have. Laws made by governments usually benefit governments, not people.


Now you may object to laws that require security issuers to register their shares, make certain disclosures etc, you may think its a good idea that an anonymous entity operating from a phone-boot in Nigeria can legally operate a money exchange and hold millions of dollars of other people's coins with no verification, oversight or accountability, but then you should protest those laws instead of blaming government for enforcing them when someone knowingly violates them.

Personally, I think bitcoin asset market is doing a very good job proving why there is a need for at least some sensible regulation and oversight, just leaving it up to the free market makes it a paradise for scammers and a useless minefield for investors.

I don't necessarily trust Wall Street bankers and their good friends in the Treasury department to do a better job than an anonymous entity operating from a phone booth in Nigeria. And yes, I do protest these laws, as well as blame the government for enforcing them the way it does. But the point is, Bitcoin almost had a chance to develop a new system of distributed regulation, in which people act in their own self-interest and yet the community as a whole judges and rejects those who try to act unfairly. The way we currently do this clearly doesn't work that well, as proven by the high trust rating TradeFortress had until very recently. But it's a work in progress, and the last thing we need is government intervention.

We're hunting for Leviathan, and Bitcoin is our harpoon.
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December 07, 2013, 03:00:33 PM
 #212

For those of you complaining about not getting our coins back, please read the post. The coins are not there for some reason, whatever that is,

They said the coins are not there.  I then showed that at least some coins were still "there" and then they changed to say that there were a tiny amount of coins still in their wallets....

So even the miniscule amount of info that cryptocyprus has provided has already been proven inaccurate.

I am assuming that I'm not the only person that can prove coins deposited are still at the deposit address, as such it is probably a considerable amount that they still have in their wallets and certainty not "all gone" as they initially claimed.



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DobZombie
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December 07, 2013, 03:08:51 PM
 #213

Jon (Ukyo) is now here with me in Cyprus to ensure this problem is resolved for everyone involved.
...
If you promise to support my family, following me making that information public at this very moment in time.
You will have to excuse the fact that I value my freedom.

I'm not tring to be hostile here, but this reads to me as...
"Uyko had fled the country"
&
"I may be an accomplice to a crime"

This whole thing is really starting to give me the shits. It's like everyone out there is attempting to take away all the Bitcoin I was going to use for IVF.

*sighs*

The Bitcoin Museum is back under my control, but I still need to go through all the code. DO NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM IT

The Biggest Collection of Bitcoin Memorabilia The Bitcoin Museum
Series 2 BitcoinNerd 1g Silver coin thread!
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December 07, 2013, 03:56:47 PM
 #214

Jon (Ukyo) is now here with me in Cyprus to ensure this problem is resolved for everyone involved.
...
If you promise to support my family, following me making that information public at this very moment in time.
You will have to excuse the fact that I value my freedom.

I'm not tring to be hostile here, but this reads to me as...
"Uyko had fled the country"
&
"I may be an accomplice to a crime"

This whole thing is really starting to give me the shits. It's like everyone out there is attempting to take away all the Bitcoin I was going to use for IVF.

*sighs*

If I go through everything you have ever written I could make all kinds of assumptions when taking selected words.

You should be a journalist.

If people don't want me to help towards getting their coins back just say, lawyer up, go for it yourselves (Good luck) and I will reduce my targets by their amounts and continue towards getting everyone that is happy it their coins back. In fact it will make my life much easier.



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December 07, 2013, 04:06:24 PM
 #215

Jon (Ukyo) is now here with me in Cyprus to ensure this problem is resolved for everyone involved.
...
If you promise to support my family, following me making that information public at this very moment in time.
You will have to excuse the fact that I value my freedom.

I'm not tring to be hostile here, but this reads to me as...
"Uyko had fled the country"
&
"I may be an accomplice to a crime"

This whole thing is really starting to give me the shits. It's like everyone out there is attempting to take away all the Bitcoin I was going to use for IVF.

*sighs*

He's not safe there. http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Cyprus%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States.pdf


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December 07, 2013, 04:28:12 PM
 #216

The bitcoins are simply not there anymore, we are continuing to work through the implementation of a number of solutions to correct the issue.

Where have they gone ? Can you answere this question or will you ignore it?
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December 07, 2013, 04:50:57 PM
 #217

The bitcoins are simply not there anymore, we are continuing to work through the implementation of a number of solutions to correct the issue.

Where have they gone ? Can you answere this question or will you ignore it?

I cannot answer it at this exact moment in time. But that will change.
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December 07, 2013, 04:57:23 PM
 #218

Hey Ukyo,
come to belgium. We have a Bitcoin meet in Ghent next saturday.
Have a beer with me (my treat!) and pay me 0.42 BTC and I am happy!

 Grin    Cheesy    Smiley    Undecided    Lips sealed    Sad    Angry    Cry
The line above shows my mood when I was typing this message.

Searching for a trusted escrow service? Check my trust. I use a Trezor device for my escrow services, so your coins are safe. Fee: 0.5% or 0.05 BTC, whichever is lower
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December 07, 2013, 05:02:38 PM
 #219

Hey Ukyo,
come to belgium. We have a Bitcoin meet in Ghent next saturday.
Have a beer with me (my treat!) and pay me 0.42 BTC and I am happy!

 Grin    Cheesy    Smiley    Undecided    Lips sealed    Sad    Angry    Cry
The line above shows my mood when I was typing this message.

Cryptocyprus should kick Ukyo in the balls and post it on youtube. It would at least offer shareholders some relief.


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DECENT
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[D]ecentralized application
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[E]ncrypted & secure
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December 07, 2013, 05:04:55 PM
 #220

The bitcoins are simply not there anymore, we are continuing to work through the implementation of a number of solutions to correct the issue.

Where have they gone ? Can you answere this question or will you ignore it?

It cannot be ignored, but it cannot be answered at this time, also. For now, just read between the lines and see if you judged right in the weeks to come.

Cant think of many examples where someone has so overtly publicised the fact, that he is prepared to help people get missing funds back, and thereby put his own reputation on the line. Sure, there may or may not be a vested interest and/or parallel agenda in play here, but lets be thankful for having someone who's shrewd enough to see a win win opportunity, and someone with the bollocks to carry it out.

We have a date when funds should start moving. Thats a step closer, right?

  

 

 
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