[BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process

[SebastianJu]

<Ukyo> first was the bitcoind issue

Wow, he still doesn't want to admit that the bitcoind issue was a bold lie.

Edit: Guys, if its an issue with bitcoind, why wouldn't he go ahead and ask for help publicly? That stuff would be fixed within hours/ a couple days. I mean he's highly incompetent, but that would be hilarious.

Like WeexUser wrote, Ukyo asked for help. But there wasnt a workaround yet for that wallet size and ukyo had a lot custom coding included so it would be hard to change for outsiders.

The second issue prompted the sudden halt of withdraw system. Might that be the block-issue? Where bitcoind couldnt load or process a certain block so it stopped in the blockchain?

The block issue is a new separate issue that happened to some bitcoin clients at the end of December and it can not be related to the cause of the withdrawal issues that started in October-November.

• The first issue is bitcoind not being able to handle the huge wallet and restarting. Ukyo started doing the manual withdrawals after being unable to make a quick fix for this problem.
• The second issue is the actual problem. It is the issue that Danny refers to as a "legal issue" that he can't talk about. Ukyo now states that it started around the 15th November. It was also around that date he stopped doing manual withdrawals, stopped writing on the forums for a month, and said on IRC that "shit has hit the fan", so his story matches up perfectly.

I think I just noticed something important in what he said:

<nsa__> When did you first hear about the "other" issue?
<Ukyo> within 4 hours of disabling withdraws
<Ukyo> and stopping the manual ones
<Ukyo> rahter

If this is true it basically debunks the theory that the coins were stolen (by other people than Ukyo at least), since he would obviously not have been able to continue to withdraw coins for 4 hours.

If its really a legal issue that involves bitcoins taken from weexchange then ukyo would fail miserably not telling us this because we wouldnt have the chance to sue early enough. Someone would get his money back and we are the bagholders. It wouldnt make sense to have a gag order then too. Gag orders should only make sense when government still wants to investigate.
It wouldnt make sense either to take funds that specificially dont belong to ukyo nor weexchange but to certain people. Seizing that money would be something ukyo's lawyer could go against easily. Of course only when he wants.

Im not sure but i read it the way that he disabled withdraws and only 4 hours later found out about the problem.

"Finding out" is strange. Was his server confiscated? Can he really be that stupid and not having backups? I mean i cant imagine a half serious person having responsibility for millions of user funds and then letting all saved on one place only without backups. If thats really the case it would be no wonder he dont want to talk about.
Regarding server... maybe some unscrupulous employee at the server host found the wallet and now makes an extended trip over the world.

Edit: And he couldn't easily use another wallet as peope suggested because he had inserted some custom code in his bitcoind client.
He is allegedly now working on migrating his system to use a newer version of the bitcoind client. The newer version of bitcoind does not need his custom code due to a new feature and it fixes the block issue. He don't know yet whether it will also fix the restarting issue.

Why shouldnt he be able to use another wallet? The custom code isnt needed to send bitcoins. The only thing to do would be importing all private keys into another wallet. Maybe only a couple always to not break the new wallet. He didnt do this so i think either he dont have the private keys or the coins are gone.

If the restarting issue is fixed it wont help us like he wrote in the chatlog. I want to know what would help us.

Im switching from letting ukyo try his "plan" to "sue him fast before nothing is there anymore" back and forth... i couldnt care less if weexchange survives. For me weexchange is dead anyway and i dont see what ukyo will use it for in the future.

The coins i lost werent weexchange funds, they were my funds weexchange had in escrow. So if the coins were stolen it wouldnt hurt i know it, when they were seized then it would be illegal and and and.

*argh* This topic is exhausting.

[WeexUser]

Regarding server... maybe some unscrupulous employee at the server host found the wallet and now makes an extended trip over the world.

If you didn't already know it then Ukyo founded a server hosting company long before bitfunder and weex: http://www.cologuys.com/
He might manage the server(s) himself. (it doesn't seem like he is involved in the company anymore though)

Why shouldnt he be able to use another wallet? The custom code isnt needed to send bitcoins.

Good question.. I have no idea but he wrote this definition of the custom code:

When weexchange started, bitcoind had no easy way to find out about new incoming transactions so we custom added sql code to it

There could easily be more custom code we haven't heard of though..

[glendall]

 
At the very, very least, please at least give yourself a deadline on how long you are going to wait before doing anything, or accepting the money as lost. Another week? Another month? Give Ukyo a year? At least set this for yourself and stick to it.

Said this 3 weeks ago.  Again, I'll repeat it.  Going to repeat it every month until more of you come around.  Absolutely no progress has been made. He has made MILLIONS of DOLLARS from this.

Give yourself a deadline.  Ukyo has been taking the publics deposits into his own fucking wallet since NOVEMBER knowing he could not pay people back. If this isn't a red flag or a concern for you, you are an idiot. I'm sorry, I'm not sure how else I can put it.

When will you do something about this? Anything is better than nothing.   Another 2 weeks?  Another 2 months, 5 months?  Just at least set a deadline.

He is buying more time.  At the very least Ukyo should have at least TOLD us what HAPPENED with all of our BTC we deposited to "WeExchange | A safe way to pay and get paid".

You have had money stolen from you, you should be angry.

[kslaughter]

One of Jon's ex clients, breaking cover!..... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg4664267#msg4664267

Wouldn't Ken get in big trouble if Ukyo indeed has a legit story? (well in any way actually. I don't think it is allowed to steal from even a scammer..)

If he actually sold them, i guess he could be in trouble. Looks like good ole fashioned, leverage, and should only be expected as time ticks on, and on....

@Ukyo
I will explain it to you, a corporation has a lien on its shares for any sums owed by a shareholder, so we have a lien on your shares.  You are the owner of Bitfunder and the funds where on Bitfunder.  Because they where transferred to WeEx in a contract that you had with them does not relieve you of your obligation to pay us our funds.  Also, 38 BTC was left on Bitfunder and I have screenshots of it being there.  I did not authorize it to be transferred to WeEx.

[Ukyo]

Repeated cross-post from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg4699685#msg4699685

Ken Slaughter thinks his personal debt is more important than all other Weex users and is using his book education in Indian law to personally keep 100+ BTC worth of shares that I have been trying to sell to distribute to WeEx debtors.

He has gone as far as laugh it off with "good luck gong to belize to sue us"

I will explain it to you, a corporation has a lien on its shares for any sums owed by a shareholder, so we have a lien on your shares.  You are the owner of Bitfunder and the funds where on Bitfunder.  Because they where transferred to WeEx in a contract that you had with them does not relieve you of your obligation to pay us our funds.  Also, 38 BTC was left on Bitfunder and I have screenshots of it being there.  I did not authorize it to be transferred to WeEx.

Also from PM:

Just to give you a fair warning, there are a lot of laws in the us about disclosing customer information.

Good luck going to Belize to sue us.

I will explain it to you, a corporation has a lien on its shares for any sums owed by a shareholder, so we have a lien on your shares.  You are the owner of Bitfunder and the funds where on Bitfunder.  Because they where transferred to WeEx in a contract that you had with them does not relieve you of your obligation to pay us our funds.  Also, 38 BTC was left on Bitfunder and I have screenshots of it being there.  I did not authorize it to be transferred to WeEx.

The shares have a lien on them.  You are hereby notified that if the ~100 BTC is not paid in the next 10 days, we will sell your shares to the public to satisfy your debt to the company.  Should the shares not satisfy your debt to the company you will still be liable for the remaining debt.  Any amouts over the debt will be disperse to you less any cost of the sale.

I appreciate your 'good luck to sue us'. That's a real show of character.
I suggest all shareholders take heed of this warning.
What is wrong with posting your history? Are you afraid of something? You seem pretty concerned if your willing to make threats over it.

Notice was given 45 days before the transfer from BitFunder to WeExchange.
The site was shutting down and it was known to you that the only method of bitcoin transfer is via WeExchange which you accepted and used.

You should have no funds left on BitFunder. Any account that was properly linked (Which would be the ActM official account) had its full balance transferred. I think everyone is well aware that only a few people who had linking issues with weex have a small stuck balance.

How is it you have an account with 38btc that is not ActM that you are linking into this?
How many more accounts exactly did you create for trading on BitFunder than the handful I know of?
I suppose I will have to do a more in depth search on all of you ip addresses, linked accounts and addresses.
Why have you not claimed or reported this stuck 38btc prior?
You have not mentioned the 6% claimed from the portal yet either and subtracted that.

In the end, your argument is that I owe you XXX btc personally.
If your argument holds up then that means you are not the only debtor.
If this was the case, as someone mentioned prior, any funds of mine would need to be proportionally distributed.
This is not a mechanics lien.  You did not do work or provide services. You do not have first right to the funds.
Also I see you are not including "legal costs" of unspecified amounts into what you plan to take from any proceeds.
It sounds like no matter what, your intention it to keep 100% for your personal issues.

And just because you are CEO of a company does not mean you can abuse that authority on behalf of your own personal
problems and desires.

So to be clear, you are using your position as CEO of a company to force a sale of a shareholders shares to ensure your personal BTC losses are covered before other debtors can claim their portion when you have absolutely no evidence to show that the shareholder has directly owes you anything.

You do understand the difference between a corporation and an individual?
I hope you have this same understanding with accounting practices and funds.

WeExchange has a debt to many individuals and not just you.

Again, why the sudden rush and need to sell the shares? Why can't they just be locked worst case scenario?
You seem desperate. Why? I figure it will take you at least 2~3 more months to finish buying back ActM shares.
Why the need for threats? What is it you are so afraid of?

I bet people would love to see the complete shareholder listing as it stands. Would probably be more interesting
if ownership names could be included / proven.

Also, for a lien you must file something, somewhere with a valid reason and provide notification to the person you are filing against.
Normally, unless it is a mechanics lien, you file a lien against a person or entity.

I think you need to talk to your Belize lawyers and not whatever lawyer gave you a book quote rather than an official statutory listing.
(Personally, I would fire that lawyer and hire a new one.)

I found your link very interesting though. How about linking some documentation regarding Belize Corporate law instead?
Unless this is a confession that you are operating as a Indian entity and these are shares of an Indian entity?
You do realize that book is about Corporate laws in India... right? Your lawyer must be short on time and not taken notice.
Next time you are gasping at straws, you should check the first few chapters for relevance and stop trying to mislead people.

(For those of you who are curious, start with page 2. Definition of a company regarding the Companies Act of 1956. (India) and
the following line of "a company formed and registered under previous Company Laws in India."
I am going to go out of my way to say that you have had absolutely zero legal advice and are acting solely based on random google searches
and relying on "Well let him try something." rather than doing things properly.
I truly hope for those who have invested into ActM that you run your business better than this.

Please stop being inconsistent and show people if you actually have an understanding of the things you are talking about.
It's almost like you are purposefully misleading people.

(For anyone curious, feel free to call a US corporate lawyer for a free consultation and ask about shareholder rights and liens.)
Then again, that's US law, not Brazilian.

I response to your unofficial "notice of lien" hereby request that you post the contact information for your corporate Belize lawyers or PM it to me so I can contact them to make arrangements so this can be handled properly and officially. I will make sure that any documents are released to the public so they are fully aware of the situation.

Please keep in mind that your professional manner in handling this situation dictates how you will and ActM will be viewed going forward.
As a ActM shareholder and I am sure many others agree, if ActM is to succeed, it must act properly and not arbitrarily or expose the
company to unnecessary risks.

Stop acting so desperate and do things right.

Thank You,
Ukyo

[enderbender]

Ken Slaughter thinks his personal debt is more important than all other Weex users and is using his book education in Indian law to personally keep 100+ BTC worth of shares that I have been trying to sell to distribute to WeEx debtors.

orrrrrrrly?

got any more assets yer selling off to pay back your victims?

Icedrill? Satoshipoker? Neo? Ziggap? Bakewell?

[glendall]

Ukyo what has active mining have to do, at all, with someone, like myself, who deposited money to wexchange then could not withdraw the btc.   How can you conflate these two things?  There is no link that I can see.

You can't just accept deposits from people then keep their money  (...like do I really need to describe this to you? Apparently).  What you have done is called thievery and there are repercussions.

Your information is public, you will not be able to hide from this.

[Ukyo]

Ukyo what has active mining have to do, at all, with someone, like myself, who deposited money to wexchange then could not withdraw the btc.   How can you conflate these two things?  There is no link that I can see.

You can't just accept deposits from people then keep their money  (...like do I really need to describe this to you? Apparently).  What you have done is called thievery and there are repercussions.

Your information is public, you will not be able to hide from this.

Uh. Really?

Do you not want me to continue to try to sell ActM shares so you can receive some BTC from it?
I thought you were demanding BTC and didn't care where it came from even if its my personal.
Perhaps I should stop "conflating" these two things.

[fuckukyo]

Yeah, selling your house and car and get a loan will also help.

Ukyo what has active mining have to do, at all, with someone, like myself, who deposited money to wexchange then could not withdraw the btc.   How can you conflate these two things?  There is no link that I can see.

You can't just accept deposits from people then keep their money  (...like do I really need to describe this to you? Apparently).  What you have done is called thievery and there are repercussions.

Your information is public, you will not be able to hide from this.

Uh. Really?

Do you not want me to continue to try to sell ActM shares so you can receive some BTC from it?
I thought you were demanding BTC and didn't care where it came from even if its my personal.
Perhaps I should stop "conflating" these two things.

[Ukyo]

Yeah, selling your house and car and get a loan will also help.

Glad to know we both agree I am on the right track with ActM then.

[VolanicEruptor]

Lol even though I am on Ukyos side during this, isn't the BTC value of ukyos ActM shares like.. 0.01% of the total missing BTC?     this is pocket change to you and ken that you're fighting over, compared to the big picture of everyone elses losses.  Wtf?

[lophie]

I am honestly still pissed Ukyo didn't post something like

"Guys I fucked up, I am really sorry, I will try to pay you all back but I honestly don't know when, The problem was that bitcoind erased the keys due to a bug and here is a link to the bug report. I should have stopped the system earlier but I didn't know they were lost I thought they were just stuck."

For not having balls to AT LEAST tell us that, I will get you one day, I am NOT a law abiding citizen in this matter.

Good day ppl, have a shitty day fucskyo.

[Ukyo]

Except that the keys were not lost.

[fuckukyo]

Go on. If that's the way you want to tell us what happened.

Except that the keys were not lost.

[digit]

To Staff, Theymos, Please accept only a signed message with a statement of your choice from 1DigitwteXwFcRAaWpVDRp6eKqzC6y9tgm and original email address to be used as proof of ownership of this forum account.

[Komodorpudel]

Hey Guys,

could someone please give me a short summary about the current situation of the stuck funds?

I'am not really up to date , and really to busy to read through all the pages, but still got a few coins stuck at weexchange.

Thank you very much

[ffssixtynine]

Ignoring the issue that ukyo cannot disclose for a sec... And yes I too want to see news and public info but I can confirm ukyo's second problem and the timing of it. Guess who was due to be paid next, when withdrawals stopped eh? Muggins here. Afaik ukyo actually is working to pay everyone back, however, lophie. Danny is of the same opinion and he has even said he will be paid last, voluntarily. Anyway...

I nearly choked when I saw active mining taking his shares. However, I quickly assumed a deal had been done with ken. Apparently not. I don't see the legality of this. Worse, as someone else owed by WeEx, those were shares ukyo had been trying to sell to pay us back another bit for ages.

That's our money being taken off us.

1) active mining are owed by weexchange Australia, not bitfunder and not ukyo personally. You can't take personal items for company debt just like that. There are also a large number of creditors.

2) why did active mining have funds in either place anyway. They should not have been trading shareholder funds and online wallets are no place for private funds. Ukyo, had you just paid them late? What's going on here?

3) are personal funds now involved too? If so, they must be dealt with differently and not conflated.

There is a legal approach to this that active mining and ken could take, one each for company and private funds. This has not been done or was not successful.

This affects all of us and I implore ken to stop this action immediately and allow ukyo to sell his shares on the proviso that all funds are split to WeEx creditors as ukyo has said he would do voluntarily. It may not be much, but every bit helps. ActiveMinings new announcement may even make them worth more money.

Worst case, activemining just put themselves in the legal firing line which no one wants to see. Why take the risk? Belize doesn't protect against everything.

[jimmothy]

Ignoring the issue that ukyo cannot disclose for a sec... And yes I too want to see news and public info but I can confirm ukyo's second problem and the timing of it. Guess who was due to be paid next, when withdrawals stopped eh? Muggins here. Afaik ukyo actually is working to pay everyone back, however, lophie. Danny is of the same opinion and he has even said he will be paid last, voluntarily. Anyway...

I nearly choked when I saw active mining taking his shares. However, I quickly assumed a deal had been done with ken. Apparently not. I don't see the legality of this. Worse, as someone else owed by WeEx, those were shares ukyo had been trying to sell to pay us back another bit for ages.

That's our money being taken off us.

1) active mining are owed by weexchange Australia, not bitfunder and not ukyo personally. You can't take personal items for company debt just like that. There are also a large number of creditors.

2) why did active mining have funds in either place anyway. They should not have been trading shareholder funds and online wallets are no place for private funds. Ukyo, had you just paid them late? What's going on here?

3) are personal funds now involved too? If so, they must be dealt with differently and not conflated. What has already.

There is a legal approach to this that active mining and ken could take, one each for company and private funds. This has not been done or was not successful.

This affects all of us and I implore ken to stop this action immediately and allow ukyo to sell his shares on the proviso that all funds are split to WeEx creditors and ukyo has said he would do voluntarily. It may not be much, but every bit helps. ActiveMinings new announcement may even make them worth more money.

Worst case, activemining just put themselves in the legal firing line. Belize doesn't protect against everything.

Lol...

How about ukyo just buys back his actm shares later with some of the 5000btc he is holding hostage?

Not sure you have any legal rights as a scammer in an unregulated security exchange market.

Also weexchange being different from bitfunder is bullshit and we all know it.

[ffssixtynine]

Jimmothy you are owed virtually nothing, unlike many of us, and know nothing about the law or facts in his case. Bf and WeEx are different entities. Get over it. The coins are no longer available either, so stop coming out with your trash.

The above is about paying a small part of our debt back. Not much, but another bit. That has just been taken away from us, and yes the law does apply here. As ken says, however, good luck fighting his Belize company.

Doesn't make me too happy as a creditor tho does it.

[jimmothy]

Jimmothy you are owed virtually nothing, unlike many of us, and know nothing about the law or facts in his case. Bf and WeEx are different entities. Get over it. The coins are no longer available either, so stop coming out with your trash.

The above is about paying a small part of our debt back. Not much, but another bit. That has just been taken away from us, and yes the law does apply here. As ken says, however, good luck fighting his Belize company.

Doesn't make me too happy as a creditor tho does it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that ukyo is ceo, lead developer, and sole employee of both bitfunder and weexchange?