[BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process

[mainline]

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I have not said anywhere that Ukyo has or hasn't lost the funds, but -he- has said they are not available and that weexchange has no assets. That means weexchange does not have the funds at this point in time, for whatever reason.

No.  That means that Jon said that weexchange does not have the funds.  See the difference?

I agreed to put my own neck on the line by posting in public for one reason only - to have an independent party provide a viewpoint from a position of knowledge of what was happening at the time. Since I raised the alarm in the first place, I hoped that people would see my as unconnected. It has certainly not been a fun experience thanks to certain individuals who specialise in abuse, but it was my decision, not anyone else's.

Danny may be an "independent party," but he's certainly not a "disinterested party."  See the difference?

So, to be absolutely clear. I am nothing to do with weexchange. I was the first person to properly raise the alarm (reddit, irc). I am working only on information told to me by Ukyo and/or Danny. I am aware of what happened in November but nothing since then. I am one of the mid sized creditors and am aware of people owed much larger sums.

If by "what happened in November" you mean "why/how the funds 'became unavailable'," then Jon has broken the gag order.  
If you don't know any more than what's publically available, it begs the question: "why are you defending Jon's innocence?"

To the best of my knowledge, certain factors make it impossible for Ukyo to know how long it will take to finish what he is doing due to other factors.

Right.  Because reasons.

TL;DR: If you don't know any more about this mess than we do, your support of Jon is just empty verbiage.  If you do know more, telling us would go a long way towards making you credible -- you're certainly not under a gag order.

[ThickAsThieves]

This thread... you guys are so masochistically obsessive.

Do really need to fill the internet with hot air, recycled over and over?

Say something new, do something new, or stop talking please.

[jimmothy]

This thread... you guys are so masochistically obsessive.

Do really need to fill the internet with hot air, recycled over and over?

Say something new, do something new, or stop talking please.

What exactly was the point of this thread?

[dexX7]

I didn't follow here for a while, so I'd like to ask for any significant update. I guess though that nothing changed.

Also, the claim portal seems to be forgotten:

Withdraws in maintenance mode due to old bitcoind system. Apparently there was a network issue with block 277596. This is being worked on to resolve the issue.

Block info:
2013-12-29 19:01:52
https://blockchain.info/block/0000000000000001947cc7acbbc9a240517f9ba19c16b4f937795c6b58019fb5

[fuckukyo]

He's gone. Maybe it's time to find a professional. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUzlmWWdjEQ

[Kouye]

or stop talking please.

And let scammers breathe.
Yeah, good idea.
It's been quite a few months, TaT, you know?

[SebastianJu]

Really a stupid move to be so silent all this time. If ukyo really hopes to prevent lawsuits thats the worst move now.

[kano]

No, the posts are lies - saying that if weex has "no money" means we'd get nothing back.
The law does not turn a blind eye to a director and owner of a company that 'misplaces' their funds held in trust.
If that was the case, then any company out there could simply spend all the money they have and then declare Bankruptcy.
Although I do think the law is stupid (even though there are half a dozen lawyers in my direct family) they are not stupid enough to let people easily get away with losing/hiding funds held in trust.

A very good friend of mine works in precisely this area of law, all be it in the UK. I have spoken to them about how it would work here.

I have said it many times now but let me repeat. If Ukyo did not steal the funds and they are not available for some other reason, then it's going to be down to the precise details and a judgement. Moreover, it then comes down to what personal assets are available, and they are going to be nowhere near what is missing. A tiny percentage. And then you need to allow for all the fees involved, and that's if Ukyo were found to be personally liable due to some form of negligence.

I thought I'd ask the Australian company and contract lawyer sitting next to me today ...

The word you're so called lawyer seems to have not learnt about is ... "Liability" ... tell him to learn about it
... and the word in reference to laws regarding a "Trust"

[stereotype]

Really a stupid move to be so silent all this time. If ukyo really hopes to prevent lawsuits thats the worst move now.

Not sure Jon would worry about lawsuits. He has said a few times that people are welcome to go down the legal route.

Just hope he is not stupid enough to think that the legal route is the only route.

Jon. Whatever decision you are waiting for, it needs to come very quick, or its just not happening. Get the plan B ready ASAP, or forget ever being successful for at least the next 10 years, while you deal with this heavy weight dragging you back.

[stereotype]

From Gox latest press release today, I remember reading a paraphrase of the following from 2 individuals, in the know.... 
"......the changes required for addressing this issue will be positive over the long term for the whole community."

It would be 'convenient', but could it be related, is what springs to mind.

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html

[BitcoinForumator]

Ukyo, now that the price of bitcoin is down this much, you can buy back with $.

[Thalum]

I've been following this closely and have come to the conclusion that my money is gone...

But more important than my money, I want to know what on earth is happening with any documents that were uploaded to verify my identity (yes, I know I was dumb)? None of them were approved, so I'm still 'unverified' on the weexchange website. To that end, Ukyo, I'd like you to delete my documents as there is no need for you to have them there if I haven't been verified. Please don't give another B.S. reason that keeping them is to do with 'legal' reasons....

[stereotype]

I've been following this closely and have come to the conclusion that my money is gone...

But more important than my money, I want to know what on earth is happening with any documents that were uploaded to verify my identity (yes, I know I was dumb)? None of them were approved, so I'm still 'unverified' on the weexchange website. To that end, Ukyo, I'd like you to delete my documents as there is no need for you to have them there if I haven't been verified. Please don't give another B.S. reason that keeping them is to do with 'legal' reasons....

This has been asked before, and unfortunately, your documents will not be returned or destroyed, any time soon.

[thecoinjournal]

Ukyo, now that the price of bitcoin is down this much, you can buy back with $.

It isn't anymore.

[equipoise]

From Gox latest press release today, I remember reading a paraphrase of the following from 2 individuals, in the know.... 
"......the changes required for addressing this issue will be positive over the long term for the whole community."

It would be 'convenient', but could it be related, is what springs to mind.

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html

Yes, Ukyo said something very similar in one of his earlier IRC chats - it was in the sense that on his opinion what happened will lead to higher BTC price. There is a possibility for those to be connected and the problem is technical. Some are trying to mutate Bitcoin transactions in order to try to convince the sender the transaction didn't happened while it actually did. Then the sender could by mistake send it for a second time resulting in losing part of his Bitcoins and credit it to other users. "...the changes required for addressing this issue will be positive over the long term for the whole community." https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html

[WeexUser]

From Gox latest press release today, I remember reading a paraphrase of the following from 2 individuals, in the know....  
"......the changes required for addressing this issue will be positive over the long term for the whole community."

It would be 'convenient', but could it be related, is what springs to mind.

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html

While I remember that Ukyo said that the solution would affect the price of bitcoin I can't seem to find that quote..

I did find a quote from Danny:

The solution will enable Neo & Bee and all of those involved in Bitcoin to benefit greatly in the future.

If Ukyo's issue is the same as gox's it could explain why the coins are gone and why he can't talk about it, since it is probably best to keep an exploit like that secret until resolved. But IF that is the case then Ukyo should probably be able to talk about it now that gox has spilled the beans.



EDIT: I just remembered something Ukyo seemed to mention on IRC by mistake.. After a bit of digging in my IRC logs I found this from December 17:

Code: (#weex)

<Ukyo> been fighting gox to coorolate things
<Ukyo> to find out exactly whats what on those orders
<Ukyo> er..
<Ukyo> >,>
<Ukyo> <,<
<Ukyo> i am going to shut up now.

I neglected it at the time but it seems quite relevant now.

[Kosmatos]

So Ukyo, is this it or what?

Bad WeExchange code related to transaction malleability caused the coins to be lost to people by repeated withdrawals?

[equipoise]

So Ukyo, is this it or what?

Bad WeExchange code related to transaction malleability caused the coins to be lost to people by repeated withdrawals?

This seems like quite possible explanation - some people mutated some transactions and then claimed their coins again and again until there were almost no coins in the weexchange wallet. They could be doing it quite some time and just keeping enough bitcoins in the wallet for daily withdraws (meanwhile monitoring the wallet by knowing some of the wallet public addresses - for example their own deposit addresses). In one point of time Ukyo started the manual transactions and shortly after he realized what happened. Just a speculation.

[Choroid Plexus]

Interesting theory. Was also the first thing that crossed my mind upon hearing about Gox's potential troubles (and perhaps lost assets) with the malleability attack. What matters is which wallet software was running. In the case of Gox's it was some homebrewed code that contained no patch for the malleability problem, even though this exploit has been known for at least a year. So, anyone know what wallet software Weex was running on?

[minerpart]

It that is what happened (malleability attacks) both Ukyo and Danny Neobee are lieing because they have both said they are working on technical solutions that will lead to the return of the BTC.

I think Ukyo gambled the BTC away speculating on a fall in BTC/USD. Unfortunately for him price took off shortly after he sold everyone's BTC for FIAT. Only a return to sub $200 levels will allow him to buy all the missing BTC back.