[ANN] [ASIC-RESISTANT] UltraCoin (UTC) - Ultrafast 6 second transactions!!

[rapture333]

Hello gents, @flobdeth @KingPin and the rest of the Ultracoin community. You all have legitimate concerns dealing with the full PoS transformation of Ultracoin, I want to iterate that harsh language, slippery slope fallacies and ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated and will be deleted by the admins of the of thread. If you wish to display your concerns, please organize them and post them in a manner that is not attacking individuals or using baseless information. Rest assured that your concerns ARE being heard by the management team and everything is being heavily considered.

In order to end any bickering (on both sides) I have created a thread on UltracoinTalk where we will examine the pro's and con's of switching to a full PoS coin, I want everyone to present their best evidence as to why they think their position is superior or simply examine both sides objectively that way the community can argue in favor of the best decision without infighting.

Continue the discussion @:

http://goo.gl/PpRm4S

Sincerely,
Steven "Rapture333"
Marketing & PR Director

[BorisWCR]

+1
Well spoken Paul.

Guy’s,

What I see the last day is only talking negative shit from a little group of so called "members".

We have community members who are positive to full pos and also community members who are negative.
That’s all ok as long if there is normal discussion about the pros and cons.

But what I see now is that some little group of "members" starting with negativity, false accusations and with personal attacks without any proof.
Next to that I see that we are going back to the time from a view weeks ago when the thread was full of negativity, attacks, provoking and trying people to influence.

Please understand this;
You can be against full pos, but what some “members” are doing now is destroying UTC by constant putting fud on the tread.
So if UTC is going down it is not of changing in to full pos but because of those “members” who are fudding and attacking UTC.
It is as simple as that!

About no hashing power, again some stupid accusation. Fabietech and I have since day one started with mining UTC with more than 140x R9 290’s.
At this moment we have more than 430MH/s on the Multipool.
So our rigs are about roughly +50% off the X11 hashing power at the multipool.
And remember this, we have several Titan Asic miners coming and will put a large amount of that on the Multipool.
Next to this Bumface has also some asics coming and will put a part of his asic's also to the Multipool.

About the accusations of wanted to dump. Since day one Fabian and I are miners of UTC.
Yes we are serious bag holders.
But we did never dumped any UTC on the market.
Off course there will come a time we will go in to a sell.
But if we do sell we do that responsible and in parts.
We will never ever dumps all at once.
We still believe we can let UTC grow to a price point above +0,003!
 
Please to those "members" who are constant negative !
Stop fudding and spreading fear mongering and start normal healthy discourse instead please.

In the mean time I support bumface 100% when messages are deleted which meant only to be negative and wrong to cause damage and fearmongering.
I will even delete them personally !

I am since a short time new here at the utc forum. I have started my own coin but like utc for investments. But this constant negativity of some guys give me goose bumps. It looks just like Enemy of the State. If this wont stop it will scare new utc investors and buyers away. What is there ppl don't understand about that they are hurting your coin. Do they want to destroy it?

[ultradar]

After going full pos how many coins will be released  for the market ?do we have a number for that??? ...at this moment there are 16.900.000 UTC. Also i wonder why too many trollers like flobdeth or king_pin complaining about bugholders when you can even be a bugholder just buying the hell out of ultracoin by rising also the price with only 5-10 btc....All i can say is go buy some coins support the devs work positively for the community ,remove sell orders, and shut the fuck up by letting the dev's do their job.

[flobdeth]

My post was directed to king_pin, as this was nothing but FUD and accusations without any arguments to manifest what he said.

This king_pin sets himself completely sidelined with stupid accusations without any proof.
King_pin shows here that he is 100% unreliable and just an enemy of UTC.
People like that must been seen as dangerous trollers and must be put on the ignore list.

And then about this mr. flobdeth.
Also somebody who is unreliable.
He put on is tread a view hours ago some hard accusations to the management team.
Still he did dent come up with good arguments or proof.
Another candidate troller to put on the ignore list.  

Who appointed you the thought police?

I am so glad you're my judge jury and executioner, all hail and bow down, here take my sword to cut off my head. I'm such a bad troll asking questions about the future of your investment.  Keep wandering about with your eyes shut.  You may do us a favour and wander off a cliff.

Hey, my money is safe elsewhere, all this shows me are BIG RED FLAGS when people can't even answer simple questions, so, I suggest you get back under your own pebble and come back at me once you've grown a few hairs. 

I invested heavily in this coin before, I sold upon lots of reasons I have kept an eye on it, that is no crime.

To satiate Mr Marnie, who clearly has no mind of his own and can only regurgitate what other thought police tell him, this is commonly known as a "discussion" Quote:
dis·cus·sion

noun
the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.
"the proposals are not a blueprint but ideas for discussion"
a conversation or debate about a certain topic.

Red flag 1:  Changing the block reward (though I agreed mostly with difficulty changes for longevity reasoning)

Red flag 2:  Hearing about secret emails involving 13(?) IPO members (how much truth there were in them, I don't know) so that is invalid, merely hearsay and conjecture, but that made me stop and think.  I don't want to post what I heard here, but I'm sure the IPO holders may have an idea what I'm on about (6 months?)

Red flag 3: Never are the team open to answering questions unless it's nonsensical or trivial or posting posts exactly as you have there!

Red flag 4: Bumface, sold his IPO and bought asics!" (I understand your reasoning, I don't agree with it and that's my prerogative and made me think you were looking for ways out, which you have)  IPO should never have been touched, mistake but now in the past!

Red flag 5: Devs jumping ship, 3 of them was it?

Red flag 6:  The "Big boys" want to implement POS, that only suits the owners as they're the biggest holders.......

Red flag 7: Bumfaces trollbox mate steps up and "takes over" (sorry guys, but I have a hard time believing anything has changed, prove me wrong) If it had been some random guys dog even, I would have found that easier to swallow for some reason.

So, Mr Marnie continue to call for my head, but if you think for one minute I'd suggest anyone on this planet invest money in UTC without any answers to anything, running on "blind faith" or stupidity, take your pick, I insinuate nothing, draw your own conclusions!  In this context, is it wrong to expect any answers before I'd even consider putting money back into UTC?

@Richardminer, hopefully that puts to bed a couple of your questions also, though I know I missed a couple, apologies

Bumface had a cracking little thing going, sure, there have been mistakes, I'm sure he's learned from those, but he's not in charge anymore.  I don't want to see it die.  I also am no idiot and if that makes me a troll and a Fudster for bringing up relevant questions, then OOOOH, scary stuff if that's the worst of your worries!

Sure, I could post positive points, but I have questions that need answers first and I'm sure it'd be far easier just to TRY and address those first would it not?

@ultraqar exactly what they expect from the troll box, blind obedience, this is reality, not a competition to see who can lose the most.  I won't "STFU" and blindly throw money at people, what kind of ridiculous attitude is that, make much from trading doing that, or are you down since you started playing with crypto?  Yours is exactly the "dumb money" attitude that is so easy to scam

[rapture333]

There is nothing wrong with dissent... But please stay grounded and post your concerns objectively and professionally. I made a thread for just that here: http://ultracointalk.org/index.php?topic=141.msg285#msg285

If you want to make a big impact, post all of your concerns there. We will be listening.

[Levole11]

After going full pos how many coins will be released  for the market ?do we have a number for that??? ...at this moment there are 16.900.000 UTC. Also i wonder why too many trollers like flobdeth or king_pin complaining about bugholders when you can even be a bugholder just buying the hell out of ultracoin by rising also the price with only 5-10 btc....All i can say is go buy some coins support the devs work positively for the community ,remove sell orders, and shut the fuck up by letting the dev's do their job.

The coins coming on the market each day will be factor 19 less then now..

[BorisWCR]

If I may give any sort advice to all of you then it would be this : Ignore list
Al other actions or response will hurt your coin more and more.

[Beave162]

Centralization and manipulation is not only immoral--it will not work. The price of UTC may rise slightly and briefly, but it will decline big time in the long run because what intelligent person WITH MONEY would want to invest in something that has and will most certainly be manipulated by a few bagholders trying to get to a certain price at the expense of others?

I'm not sure why some are posting comments now. This precedent was set a long time ago, and I saw full POS coming. They will manipulate again I absolutely promise you.

The POS money ship has sailed. The Scrypt-N coins have yet to see their day, but it is coming. CACHEcoin is coming back from the dead, and it has a high POS reward. There is a lot of hope in scrypt-chacha, but I don't think the ones in 'power' will ever understand.

Why not just create another coin altogether? Do you think it will be easier to market a coin that doesn't have a history of issues and steady decline? You can do another IPO and buy more scrypt asics. You may make up all of your losses from UTC with an initial pump if you market it right--call it SuperUltraCoin.

[Levole11]

Centralization and manipulation is not only immoral--it will not work. The price of UTC may rise slightly and briefly, but it will decline big time in the long run because what intelligent person WITH MONEY would want to invest in something that has and will most certainly be manipulated by a few bagholders trying to get to a certain price at the expense of others?

I'm not sure why some are posting comments now. This precedent was set a long time ago, and I saw full POS coming. They will manipulate again I absolutely promise you.

The POS money ship has sailed. The Scrypt-N coins have yet to see their day, but it is coming. CACHEcoin is coming back from the dead, and it has a high POS reward. There is a lot of hope in scrypt-chacha, but I don't think the ones in 'power' will ever understand.

Why not just create another coin altogether? Do you think it will be easier to market a coin that doesn't have a history of issues and steady decline? You can do another IPO and buy more scrypt asics. You may make up all of your losses from UTC with an initial pump if you market it right--call it SuperUltraCoin.

Beave, its obvious what your intentions are.. Which are not any better than the accusations you make towards others. I havent seen you make 1 positive comment on tyhis thread, since the beginning of it... No matter what choice was made.. So could you please leave and taje your negativity somehere else please? If you have this much knowledge how come your coin sux?

[Marnie1976]

To Levole11 and all others, can you remember this message?
 

About the trollers;
> The trollers will never stop with nagging and sucking blood.
> Their task is to hurt and damage the founder and our Ultracoin.
> So they are hurting and damaging all of us by that task they gave their self to do.

Don't feed the trolls; --> This is very important <--
> If you write a message in this tread then please remember how important it is to stay serious and positive.
> If you read a troll message, a troll attack or a message which is full of negativity or fud, then please be strong and simply do not respond and do not answer even
    though the temptation could be great to do that.
> Please understand well that the trollers are working together only to provoke, hurt and damage UTC and the UTC community.
> By not answering and ignoring the trolls and their provoking fud messages you are doing really the best thing you can do for UTC and thus for your self.

I know it is difficult (also for me) but it is still the best advise ever....

[Beave162]

Beave, its obvious what your intentions are.. Which are not any better than the accusations you make towards others. I havent seen you make 1 positive comment on tyhis thread, since the beginning of it... No matter what choice was made.. So could you please leave and taje your negativity somehere else please? If you have this much knowledge how come your coin sux?

Um... what do you think my intentions are? And I have made more than 1 positive, so you are just wrong ...YACoin is not MY coin. I have made no contributions to the development of the wallet, miner, or website. I like not being in a cult. In fact, I'm going to finally remove that logo as the perception of centralized control is growing in crypto in general. Thanks.

EDIT: Apparently, I'm not allowed to change my avator? 

[mizultra]

I'm curious as to what defines a "large" holder of UTC any more.

Anyone?..Ballpark?

For the record, I'm agnostic on the POS issue and I've had UTC from the beginning. I can see where there are legitimate concerns by members of this community, perceived troll or not, and I certainly understand the attraction of going POS and I see the downside. If the UTC Dev's said they came by their decision after speaking to the experts then it would follow that they were convinced enough by those discussions to warrant the change.

I certainly don't have any reason to doubt their conclusions, but it's obvious they a lot of people would benefit to hear those same arguments that persuaded the devs, and how they came to their conclusion that going POS was the right thing to do for UTC in the long term.

I'd be pretty disappointed to see this discussion go down like the dcgirl mess, with people involved with UTC getting frustrated, leaving, dumping, and then becoming yet another negative spokesperson for UTC. That doesn't help anyone.

[CECVW]

Let me speak, and I said this 1000 times! There is more coins coming in every week and if UTC does not do anything drastic it will die sooner than later if nothing is done, now that management decided to do something about it comes complains and if they do nothing they also complain. UTC has to be different from the rest, has something unique to succeed among the so many coins that are out there. If you have a normal coin it will eventually die, Do you know why this coin has survived? because it has one of the biggest community and that is the main reason if it was not for it this coin would have been dead long time ago, this coin being done by bumface and he being one of the moderator of BTC-e make UTC very popular and lots of BTC-e customer bought UTC for that reason. Now trolls and negative and positive people. We need to advertise and get this coin to a multinational level...make it join a bank, a big company, That UTC relate to something Huge. STop talking about nonsense, TO BE POS OR NOT TO BE POS?  that's rubbish! Either way will die eventually if UTC does not join a big organization or institution!

[bret]

Please understand this;
You can be against full pos, but what some “members” are doing now is destroying UTC by constant putting fud on the tread.
So if UTC is going down it is not of changing in to full pos but because of those “members” who are fudding and attacking UTC.
It is as simple as that!

Did you really just say this? Maybe I am interpreting this wrong, but all I get out of this statement is

"If the decision to go full POS doesn't work out, don't blame the guys in charge, blame the nay-sayers."


Wait what? So the people that are opposing full POS are to blame if full POS doesn't work out. I'm at a loss here as to how you are making that logical jump. Talk about blame shifting and the change hasn't even happened yet.

[king_pin]

Ifthere is a vote now, I would vote:
Prostpone

First there is the reason I and few others pointed:
 - Scrypt-N currencies  are most likely to go up in hashrate and price.

Second UTC price is relatively stable or even going up a lil, there is no need to do anything harsh.

Third lets not do the same mistake as DarkCoin did with their releases. we must have a 110% working stable release, than a good advertising campaign than release it.

Fourth you should stick to a plan once you announce it - meaning finish all other developments first.


And there is CaiShen or CAIx look at what happened after it went full POS... its worth less than 10% of what it used to be when it was Scrypt-N.

[Marnie1976]

Did you really just say this? Maybe I am interpreting this wrong, but all I get out of this statement is
"If the decision to go full POS doesn't work out, don't blame the guys in charge, blame the nay-sayers."
Wait what? So the people that are opposing full POS are to blame if full POS doesn't work out. I'm at a loss here as to how you are making that logical jump. Talk about blame shifting and the change hasn't even happened yet.

Wake up dude.

I guess you are miss interpreting yes and you take everything out of context because you only take a view lines of text from that whole statement.
 
If you read better or interpretate better and try to read between the lines you see that the message is like this in my opinion:

>There are pros and cons
>That's ok
>When the discourse is with good arguments it is welcome
>But now this discourse goes the wrong way, it is getting personal and with attacks without any good arguments or even with lies
>This is harming UTC big
>New investors or traders will be scared away because of the continuous attacks
>So if UTC fails or full pos fails a big reason will be that the attackers scared away possible new investors

Guy’s,

What I see the last day is only talking negative shit from a little group of so called "members".

We have community members who are positive to full pos and also community members who are negative.
That’s all ok as long if there is normal discussion about the pros and cons.

But what I see now is that some little group of "members" starting with negativity, false accusations and with personal attacks without any proof.
Next to that I see that we are going back to the time from a view weeks ago when the thread was full of negativity, attacks, provoking and trying people to influence.

Please understand this;
You can be against full pos, but what some “members” are doing now is destroying UTC by constant putting fud on the tread.
So if UTC is going down it is not of changing in to full pos but because of those “members” who are fudding and attacking UTC.
It is as simple as that!

[RichardMiner]

@King_pin

before you say anything serious or want to start an voting maybe it is better you come up with good arguments and proof about your dangerous accusation's, lies and fud spreading you did today before.

So please where is your proof ?;

POS/POW together is a good idea, bot going 100% POS will be the end of UTC!!!
Obviously I have been mining longer then they have been developing!
Going full POS offers nothing new, it offers death.
.......
The dev team is not making enough money, and that is why they want to go POS.
They obviously have lots of UTC and no hashing power, that is why they want to go full POS.
They have been stealing shares from their new dev. pool since day one, now this.... OMFG

[cointradero]

Miners dumping coins on exchanges was never your problem.  That's the only thing this full PoS solution really solves.  

I don't know what "experts" in the crypto field you spoke to, but you only heard what you wanted to or were fed bad advice.  PoS with a 7 day minimum coin age is a disaster waiting to happen as far as the blockchain is concerned.  It will be fine... initially.  There are plenty of people with a whole lot of coins not doing anything with them.

 But at 30 second blocks (I'll review the code to see if your PoS implementation is on the same schedule as PoW), you're going to have 20,160 blocks in each PoS minimum age cycle.  I highly doubt you wrote new code that restricts the total number of coins that can be staked in each block, hence you'd need 20,160 separate instances of stakeable coins every week to keep the transactions times constant.  

If we make the assumption that the average wallet may have quite a few different coin ages in it at any given  time, I still wouldn't guess there would be more than 25 stakeable instances per wallet per period.  You'd need 806 wallets open 24/7 with stakeable coins to hit that number.  That's assuming none of them ever move them.

Which is the other problem with PoS.  The whole rise in price of most PoS coins was due to their limited distribution period where people bought and hoarded them because they felt like they were getting in on a limited time offer.  After the first few dumps that happened after the PoS phase started for coins, the dumps came earlier and earlier.  New PoS coins can't even sustain their pump to the end of their distribution stage anymore before being dumped as people try to get out while the getting is good.

Now you have a full PoS coin that basically does not allow people to get in on the limited distribution stage.  How are you going to market that?  

"Hey, we're full PoS!  The only way you can get it is to buy some from us!"
"Why do I want to buy it?"
"Because you need to get it while the price is still low!"
"Why?"
"Because our multipool is going to be buying it all up!"
"What are they doing with the UTC they buy?"
"...selling it to you, dear investor!"
"Why do I want it again?"
"So you can hold and sell it to other investors."
"This sounds like a pyramid scheme."

The point is that you still haven't created demand and now you've killed the only identity this coin has marketed for the past 5 months.  It's no longer a mineable asic-resistant coin, and there is a good chance transactions speeds are about to suffer.  You can't arb with it, you can't use it anywhere that other coins can't be used, and now you've shunned everyone that hadn't already been a part of the community.  The only way out is to cannibalize those within the community now as you buy and sell to one another.  

The statement's been put out there and I wouldn't take it back at this point, because looking flaky is only going to shake confidence even further.  But I really would have strongly advised against hopping on a bandwagon that has already passed.  

[nanoprobe]

*SIGH* Another day of no multipool payouts. What's the problem this time? Think I'll be moving on for now.

[mizultra]

Miners dumping coins on exchanges was never your problem.  That's the only thing this full PoS solution really solves.  

I don't know what "experts" in the crypto field you spoke to, but you only heard what you wanted to or were fed bad advice.  PoS with a 7 day minimum coin age is a disaster waiting to happen as far as the blockchain is concerned.  It will be fine... initially.  There are plenty of people with a whole lot of coins not doing anything with them.

 But at 30 second blocks (I'll review the code to see if your PoS implementation is on the same schedule as PoW), you're going to have 20,160 blocks in each PoS minimum age cycle.  I highly doubt you wrote new code that restricts the total number of coins that can be staked in each block, hence you'd need 20,160 separate instances of stakeable coins every week to keep the transactions times constant.  

If we make the assumption that the average wallet may have quite a few different coin ages in it at any given  time, I still wouldn't guess there would be more than 25 stakeable instances per wallet per period.  You'd need 806 wallets open 24/7 with stakeable coins to hit that number.  That's assuming none of them ever move them.

Which is the other problem with PoS.  The whole rise in price of most PoS coins was due to their limited distribution period where people bought and hoarded them because they felt like they were getting in on a limited time offer.  After the first few dumps that happened after the PoS phase started for coins, the dumps came earlier and earlier.  New PoS coins can't even sustain their pump to the end of their distribution stage anymore before being dumped as people try to get out while the getting is good.

Now you have a full PoS coin that basically does not allow people to get in on the limited distribution stage.  How are you going to market that?  

"Hey, we're full PoS!  The only way you can get it is to buy some from us!"
"Why do I want to buy it?"
"Because you need to get it while the price is still low!"
"Why?"
"Because our multipool is going to be buying it all up!"
"What are they doing with the UTC they buy?"
"...selling it to you, dear investor!"
"Why do I want it again?"
"So you can hold and sell it to other investors."
"This sounds like a pyramid scheme."

The point is that you still haven't created demand and now you've killed the only identity this coin has marketed for the past 5 months.  It's no longer a mineable asic-resistant coin, and there is a good chance transactions speeds are about to suffer.  You can't arb with it, you can't use it anywhere that other coins can't be used, and now you've shunned everyone that hadn't already been a part of the community.  The only way out is to cannibalize those within the community now as you buy and sell to one another.  

The statement's been put out there and I wouldn't take it back at this point, because looking flaky is only going to shake confidence even further.  But I really would have strongly advised against hopping on a bandwagon that has already passed.  

+1

Heh...Obviously you weren't one of the "experts" they consulted in regards to going full POS. Too bad.