[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Riseman]

...You are right...

I know.

It's just hard for the Dash guys around here to accept there is simple security flaw. It just took few posts to expose it.

The main defense is 'we wouldn't host our services with just anyone that could harm us.'  You already have. LOL. 'You created a system of 4,000 nodes that route through a handful of service providers that you need to trust.'

So what are we going to do about this issue?  This is how things get stronger. Find an issue > then fix it.

edit

Is there a chart of how many nodes are hosted on different VPSs? Chaeplin used to produce a chart.

Can you share your vision on a possible attack scenario given the current situation (not some malicious provider magically acquired all the private keys situation)?

I mean who the attacker can be, what he should do and what he'll be able to achieve?

[qwizzie]

...You are right...

I know.

It's just hard for the Dash guys around here to accept there is simple security flaw. It just took few posts to expose it.

The main defense is 'we wouldn't host our services with just anyone that could harm us.'  You already have. LOL. 'You created a system of 4,000 nodes that route through a handful of service providers that you need to trust.'

So what are we going to do about this issue?  This is how things get stronger. Find an issue > then fix it.

edit

Is there a chart of how many nodes are hosted on different VPSs? Chaeplin used to produce a chart.

I'm a bit disappointed that you joined the mindless, argumentless, lets just type something and see if it hit a nerve troll brigade coins101, i guess that means you are heavily involved
in a competitor coin right now.


To answer your question :

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html
(Distr per ISP)



Not to mention those of us who run it at home with Rasberry Pi's.... which we can easily do because the blockchain is just under 2GB.
I heard of coins that have reached 9GB with regards to their blockchain already  

[coins101]

...You are right...

I know.

It's just hard for the Dash guys around here to accept there is simple security flaw. It just took few posts to expose it.

The main defense is 'we wouldn't host our services with just anyone that could harm us.'  You already have. LOL. 'You created a system of 4,000 nodes that route through a handful of service providers that you need to trust.'

So what are we going to do about this issue?  This is how things get stronger. Find an issue > then fix it.

edit

Is there a chart of how many nodes are hosted on different VPSs? Chaeplin used to produce a chart.

I'm a bit disappointed that you joined the mindless, argumentless, lets just type something and see if it hit a nerve troll brigade coins101, i guess that means you are heavily involved
in a competitor coin right now.


To answer your question :

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html
(Distr per ISP)



Not to mention those of us who run it at home with Rasberry Pi's.... which we can because the blockchain is just under 2 GB.
I heard of coins that have reached 9GB with regards to their blockchain already  

Good thinking. I found the same thing, just added it.

[JGCMiner]

It is not about trust. Even in crypto you have to trust certain people. For example, every investor holding DASH at this time is trusting that Evan and the core team will pull off Evolution as advertised and further increase the value of the coin -- else you should sell now.

No, it is not about trust -- it is about properly aligned financial incentives. And in this case they are aligned properly. I can't think of any reason for Node 40, for example, to snoop becuase they would be killing off their own business. Not to mention hurting the value of any DASH they hold. It makes no sense.

Not to mention there is no evidence I have ever seen of 2000~3000 nodes (i.e. enough to do any reasonable snooping or double spending of IS transactions) being hosted on a single service...

I agree that more decentralization is always better, but this is a non-issue started (seemingly) by trolls.

[ddink7]

...You are right...

I know.

It's just hard for the Dash guys around here to accept there is simple security flaw. It just took few posts to expose it.

The main defense is 'we wouldn't host our services with just anyone that could harm us.'  You already have. LOL. 'You created a system of 4,000 nodes that route through a handful of service providers that you need to trust.'

So what are we going to do about this issue?  This is how things get stronger. Find an issue > then fix it.

edit

Is there a chart of how many nodes are hosted on different VPSs? Chaeplin used to produce a chart.

http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html

The "cheap VPS" attack is limited in several important ways.

a) People are lazy. We can't even get more than about 20-30% of masternode owners to vote, let alone spend several hours moving masternodes to a different VPS. Additionally, when you change VPS providers you go to the back of the payment queue, which saps part of your financial incentive right there.

b) Referring back to the document that was linked earlier (https://www.dash.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Dash-WhitepaperV1.pdf), someone who controlled (or snooped on) 50% of all masternodes would have a 25% chance of deanonymizing a 2 round PrivateSend transaction, a 6.25% chance of deanonymizing a 4 round PrivateSend transaction, and a 0.39% chance of deanonymizing an 8 round PrivateSend transaction.

tl;dr If you were able to overcome people's general laziness and get 50% of the network to switch to your too-good-to-be-true-cheap VPS, you'd have a 0.39% chance of deanonymizing an 8 round PrivateSend.

[bigrcanada1]

It is not about trust. Even in crypto you have to trust certain people. For example, every investor holding DASH at this time is trusting that Evan and the core team will pull off Evolution as advertised and further increase the value of the coin -- else you should sell now.

No, it is not about trust -- it is about properly aligned financial incentives. And in this case they are aligned properly. I can't think of any reason for Node 40, for example, to snoop becuase they would be killing off their own business. Not to mention hurting the value of any DASH they hold. It makes no sense.

Not to mention there is no evidence I have ever seen of 2000~3000 nodes (i.e. enough to do any reasonable snooping or double spending of IS transactions) being hosted on a single service...

I agree that more decentralization is always better, but this is a non-issue started (seemingly) by trolls.

 I  think the point is...lets explore ways of continuing to better the security.  I for one don't see anything wrong with Mr. Jones proposing his theory.  In Theory...it could in a very remote possible way happen that someone or entity might host close to 50% of MN's...in theory.  I think its worth having people who are not DASH fans pointing thinkings out.  It benificial for us to not only having ourselves surrounded by only fanboys and "yes" people...but constantly test and re-test and analyize with critical eyes on any and all possible angles.  

As Neil deGrasse Tyson says and I quote .... "Test ideas by experiment and observation, build on those ideas that pass the test, reject the ones that fail, and follow the evidence wherever it leads"

[coins101]

It is not about trust. Even in crypto you have to trust certain people. For example, every investor holding DASH at this time is trusting that Evan and the core team will pull off Evolution as advertised and further increase the value of the coin -- else you should sell now.

No, it is not about trust -- it is about properly aligned financial incentives. And in this case they are aligned properly. I can't think of any reason for Node 40, for example, to snoop becuase they would be killing off their own business. Not to mention hurting the value of any DASH they hold. It makes no sense.

Not to mention there is no evidence I have ever seen of 2000~3000 nodes (i.e. enough to do any reasonable snooping or double spending of IS transactions) being hosted on a single service...

I agree that more decentralization is always better, but this is a non-issue started (seemingly) by trolls.

 I  think the point is...lets explore ways of continuing to better the security.  I for one don't see anything wrong with Mr. Jones proposing his theory.  In Theory...it could in a very remote possible way happen that someone or entity might host close to 50% of MN's...in theory.  I think its worth having people who are not DASH fans pointing thinkings out.  Its benificial for us to not have ourselves surrounded by only fanboys and "yes" people...but constantly test and re-test and analyize with critical eyes on any and all possible angles. 

As Neil deGrasse Tyson says and I quote .... "Test ideas by experiment and observation, build on those ideas that pass the test, reject the ones that fail, and follow the evidence wherever it leads"

+101

Find it, review it, fix it.

That's what I said, only you said it better.

[aleix]

It is not about trust. Even in crypto you have to trust certain people. For example, every investor holding DASH at this time is trusting that Evan and the core team will pull off Evolution as advertised and further increase the value of the coin -- else you should sell now.

No, it is not about trust -- it is about properly aligned financial incentives. And in this case they are aligned properly. I can't think of any reason for Node 40, for example, to snoop becuase they would be killing off their own business. Not to mention hurting the value of any DASH they hold. It makes no sense.

Not to mention there is no evidence I have ever seen of 2000~3000 nodes (i.e. enough to do any reasonable snooping or double spending of IS transactions) being hosted on a single service...

I agree that more decentralization is always better, but this is a non-issue started (seemingly) by trolls.

 I  think the point is...lets explore ways of continuing to better the security.  I for one don't see anything wrong with Mr. Jones proposing his theory.  In Theory...it could in a very remote possible way happen that someone or entity might host close to 50% of MN's...in theory.  I think its worth having people who are not DASH fans pointing thinkings out.  Its benificial for us to not have ourselves surrounded by only fanboys and "yes" people...but constantly test and re-test and analyize with critical eyes on any and all possible angles.  

As Neil deGrasse Tyson says and I quote .... "Test ideas by experiment and observation, build on those ideas that pass the test, reject the ones that fail, and follow the evidence wherever it leads"

+101

Find it, review it, fix it.

That's what I said, only you said it better.

notwithstanding this:

b) Referring back to the document that was linked earlier (https://www.dash.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Dash-WhitepaperV1.pdf), someone who controlled (or snooped on) 50% of all masternodes would have a 25% chance of deanonymizing a 2 round PrivateSend transaction, a 6.25% chance of deanonymizing a 4 round PrivateSend transaction, and a 0.39% chance of deanonymizing an 8 round PrivateSend transaction.

I can agree that the system can be improved in this point.

[aigeezer]

tl;dr If you were able to overcome people's general laziness and get 50% of the network to switch to your too-good-to-be-true-cheap VPS, you'd have a 0.39% chance of deanonymizing an 8 round PrivateSend.

Ouch. Not to play into the hands of the trolls, but that point distresses me on these grounds:

1. It assumes "laziness" as a motive for behaviour. That is usually a dangerous assumption, imho, as it justifies inaction. "Shoganai", as the Japanese saying puts it. "Whatcha gonna do - people are lazy." It's a copout.

2. The very numbers that reassure for an 8-round PrivateSend become alarming for a 2-round send. We should investigate worst-case situations rather than take comfort from best-case ones (especially if we believe people will make lazy choices).

3. The analysis does not account for cumulative effects of snooping. A crumb gathered here and there could turn into a full loaf if the hypothetical snoops were patient and diligent enough.

As others have suggested, this issue may be the skeleton outline of something that can be improved, a delightful unintended consequence for trolldom.

[JGCMiner]

It is not about trust. Even in crypto you have to trust certain people. For example, every investor holding DASH at this time is trusting that Evan and the core team will pull off Evolution as advertised and further increase the value of the coin -- else you should sell now.

No, it is not about trust -- it is about properly aligned financial incentives. And in this case they are aligned properly. I can't think of any reason for Node 40, for example, to snoop becuase they would be killing off their own business. Not to mention hurting the value of any DASH they hold. It makes no sense.

Not to mention there is no evidence I have ever seen of 2000~3000 nodes (i.e. enough to do any reasonable snooping or double spending of IS transactions) being hosted on a single service...

I agree that more decentralization is always better, but this is a non-issue started (seemingly) by trolls.

 I  think the point is...lets explore ways of continuing to better the security.  I for one don't see anything wrong with Mr. Jones proposing his theory.  In Theory...it could in a very remote possible way happen that someone or entity might host close to 50% of MN's...in theory.  I think its worth having people who are not DASH fans pointing thinkings out.  It benificial for us to not only having ourselves surrounded by only fanboys and "yes" people...but constantly test and re-test and analyize with critical eyes on any and all possible angles.  

As Neil deGrasse Tyson says and I quote .... "Test ideas by experiment and observation, build on those ideas that pass the test, reject the ones that fail, and follow the evidence wherever it leads"

As with everything it is about time and money. If improving something like this takes Evan away from Evolution then I would question the allocation of our dev resources. If somebody else steps up with an idea and submits a proposal for better decentralization then I would vote for it.

I only was questioning the dire tone of the original post (improving this is hardly an emergency) imply that this is a MAJOR security flaw. I support (and I believe most support) reasonable improvements made to DASH whenever possible.

[DaveJones]

tl;dr If you were able to overcome people's general laziness and get 50% of the network to switch to your too-good-to-be-true-cheap VPS, you'd have a 0.39% chance of deanonymizing an 8 round PrivateSend.

Ouch. Not to play into the hands of the trolls, but that point distresses me on these grounds:

1. It assumes "laziness" as a motive for behaviour. That is usually a dangerous assumption, imho, as it justifies inaction. "Shoganai", as the Japanese saying puts it. "Whatcha gonna do - people are lazy." It's a copout.

2. The very numbers that reassure for an 8-round PrivateSend become alarming for a 2-round send. We should investigate worst-case situations rather than take comfort from best-case ones (especially if we believe people will make lazy choices).

3. The analysis does not account for cumulative effects of snooping. A crumb gathered here and there could turn into a full loaf if the hypothetical snoops were patient and diligent enough.

As others have suggested, this issue may be the skeleton outline of something that can be improved, a delightful unintended consequence for trolldom.

I'm glad to be of service. Just a shame your network can't be equally useful.

Now we have some measure of consensus that the dashcoin network can be fucked over with just a few $$ and some patience, perhaps people around here will be a little more polite, especially when making wild claims about Sybil restiance.

If the Node40 guys ever needed to raise some money quick, like needing to fund a divorce payout (it can happen) or pay off a gambling debt, they could easily pull off a nasty trick or two while shorting dashcoins on exchanges.

BTW, feel free to send a 1,000 XMR donation to the XMR dev fund for helping you identify and flesh out this issue.

[bigrcanada1]

tl;dr If you were able to overcome people's general laziness and get 50% of the network to switch to your too-good-to-be-true-cheap VPS, you'd have a 0.39% chance of deanonymizing an 8 round PrivateSend.

Ouch. Not to play into the hands of the trolls, but that point distresses me on these grounds:

1. It assumes "laziness" as a motive for behaviour. That is usually a dangerous assumption, imho, as it justifies inaction. "Shoganai", as the Japanese saying puts it. "Whatcha gonna do - people are lazy." It's a copout.

2. The very numbers that reassure for an 8-round PrivateSend become alarming for a 2-round send. We should investigate worst-case situations rather than take comfort from best-case ones (especially if we believe people will make lazy choices).

3. The analysis does not account for cumulative effects of snooping. A crumb gathered here and there could turn into a full loaf if the hypothetical snoops were patient and diligent enough.

As others have suggested, this issue may be the skeleton outline of something that can be improved, a delightful unintended consequence for trolldom.

I'm glad to be of service. Just a shame your network can't be equally useful.

Now we have some measure of consensus that the dashcoin network can be fucked over with just a few $$ and some patience, perhaps people around here will be a little more polite, especially when making wild claims about Sybil restiance.

If the Node40 guys ever needed to raise some money quick, like needing to fund a divorce payout (it can happen) or pay off a gambling debt, they could easily pull off a nasty trick or two while shorting dashcoins on exchanges.

BTW, feel free to send a 1,000 XMR donation to the XMR dev fund for helping you identify and flesh out this issue.

Oh common now Mr Jones...seriously.  All cryptos are works in progress.  DASH's superiority lays on the fact that we can fund...and fund very handsomely professional development from our built in funding system to address any issues that may arise.  

So I wouldn't sit there and gloat about anything...you've added some intelligent points to the discussion, so please don't degress to trolling activity, its unbecoming of you.

no one is loosing sleep over a  perceived issue with DASH in its infancy...so first lets finish DASH Evolution!

[DaveJones]

tl;dr If you were able to overcome people's general laziness and get 50% of the network to switch to your too-good-to-be-true-cheap VPS, you'd have a 0.39% chance of deanonymizing an 8 round PrivateSend.

Ouch. Not to play into the hands of the trolls, but that point distresses me on these grounds:

1. It assumes "laziness" as a motive for behaviour. That is usually a dangerous assumption, imho, as it justifies inaction. "Shoganai", as the Japanese saying puts it. "Whatcha gonna do - people are lazy." It's a copout.

2. The very numbers that reassure for an 8-round PrivateSend become alarming for a 2-round send. We should investigate worst-case situations rather than take comfort from best-case ones (especially if we believe people will make lazy choices).

3. The analysis does not account for cumulative effects of snooping. A crumb gathered here and there could turn into a full loaf if the hypothetical snoops were patient and diligent enough.

As others have suggested, this issue may be the skeleton outline of something that can be improved, a delightful unintended consequence for trolldom.

I'm glad to be of service. Just a shame your network can't be equally useful.

Now we have some measure of consensus that the dashcoin network can be fucked over with just a few $$ and some patience, perhaps people around here will be a little more polite, especially when making wild claims about Sybil restiance.

If the Node40 guys ever needed to raise some money quick, like needing to fund a divorce payout (it can happen) or pay off a gambling debt, they could easily pull off a nasty trick or two while shorting dashcoins on exchanges.

BTW, feel free to send a 1,000 XMR donation to the XMR dev fund for helping you identify and flesh out this issue.

Oh common now Mr Jones...seriously.  All cryptos are works in progress.  DASH's superiority lays on the fact that we can fund...and fund very handsomely professional development from our built in funding system to address any issues that may arise.  

So I wouldn't sit there and gloat about anything...you've added some intelligent points to the discussion, so please don't degress to trolling activity, its unbecoming of you.

no one is loosing sleep over a  perceived issue with DASH in its infancy...so first lets finish DASH Evolution!

Your sig is broken, it needs this code:

1st Brick and Mortar DASH Merchant at misconductwineco.com

Anything else you guys need my help fixing around here? Jesus, just give me git access 

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Hello Dashers!

The current budget has 50 DASH unallocated for the next month. If you haven't voted yet, please consider supporting me for my promotional and community building efforts. I am gearing up to work even harder for Dash, but I would need a vote of confidence from the investors.

Please consider my proposal an alternative to simply burning the Dash. I guarantee you, I am providing value for the network! 



VOTE YES: dash-cli mnbudget vote-many cc9f47f22ca96c3a8553a46e4a761eb58ccd6e7e8fec772fa5295bc42a484dab yes

VOTE NO: dash-cli mnbudget vote-many cc9f47f22ca96c3a8553a46e4a761eb58ccd6e7e8fec772fa5295bc42a484dab no

Cheers, Tao.

[harmani21]

Like a dash investor i realy wonder what the hell is going on with this monero hype , i mean this is obvious that admins of this ilegal deepweb market are trying to pump that hard so they multiply their stack on monero after its acceptance to their site.
And i realy wonder how morons they can be to accept a cryptonote NSA project coin like monero, this is obvious that it is a honeypot of the  law enforcement which they throw to them so they bust the hell down and make monero look like a little child that have been beaten by his mother for being a bad kid.
On this side of world we say " it laughs better he who will laugh last" which means that a dash will shine brighter and will have an increase with healthier parameters rather than a pump and dump from ilegal activities thing.
A coin which offers reward for maintaining the system ,which offers bugdet proposals voting system ,soon evolution platform and last not least an unbroken anonymity cannot get compared to a fucking broken without wallet coint like monero.
So i wish good luck to alphabay admins and i hope they enjoy their gains from this scam scheme which monero is trying to promote.
And last but not least i will warn all your trollers scammers agents that come here on dash forum trying to attach dash that be carefull pushing monero further to black markets because one day can hit you back.
Best regards

P.S

Im preparing my popcorn to watch monero price dumping that hard that some people might not believe to their eyes because some of them gonna lose enough money probably they gonna commit suicide.
Be carefull to not invest what you cant afford to lose because alphabay admins are planning to dump all their monero stack very soon believe me or not this wont happen later than end of october

Best Regards

[Riseman]

Recently I actually started to believe that fundamentals just coincide with TA or are made up to emphasize its effects.

1. Add Dash to Jaxxx, pump it.
2. Remove Dash from Jaxxx, short and dump it.

1. Add Monero to Alphabay, pump it.
2. ..?

[aleix]

Please stay on topic. You have dozens of theads to talk about other currencies in Bitcointalk.

Thanks! 

[jacaf01]

Like a dash investor i realy wonder what the hell is going on with this monero hype , i mean this is obvious that admins of this ilegal deepweb market are trying to pump that hard so they multiply their stack on monero after its acceptance to their site.
And i realy wonder how morons they can be to accept a cryptonote NSA project coin like monero, this is obvious that it is a honeypot of the  law enforcement which they throw to them so they bust the hell down and make monero look like a little child that have been beaten by his mother for being a bad kid.
On this side of world we say " it laughs better he who will laugh last" which means that a dash will shine brighter and will have an increase with healthier parameters rather than a pump and dump from ilegal activities thing.
A coin which offers reward for maintaining the system ,which offers bugdet proposals voting system ,soon evolution platform and last not least an unbroken anonymity cannot get compared to a fucking broken without wallet coint like monero.
So i wish good luck to alphabay admins and i hope they enjoy their gains from this scam scheme which monero is trying to promote.
And last but not least i will warn all your trollers scammers agents that come here on dash forum trying to attach dash that be carefull pushing monero further to black markets because one day can hit you back.
Best regards

P.S

Im preparing my popcorn to watch monero price dumping that hard that some people might not believe to their eyes because some of them gonna lose enough money probably they gonna commit suicide.
Be carefull to not invest what you cant afford to lose because alphabay admins are planning to dump all their monero stack very soon believe me or not this wont happen later than end of october

Best Regards

I just don't understand the issue between Dash and Monero investors when Dash rose around early August you never see it has a pump and dump coin. We all know what laid the foundation for Bitcoin success was the value given to it by Darknet market which saw the price more above $100. I don't know why they now opt for Monero now, for me Monero is a coin to watch out for it the adoption continues.

[harmani21]

MONERO EXPOSED!!


Exposure part 1
Be carefull investing in Monero there is a lot going behind the scenes !
A well orginized crime is going on on monero price pump .
Some serious monero investors and/or monero devs with some well known trollers of other coins (not going to mention names) because they do know who  are they have been browsing undernet markets basicaly they are involved with ilegal activities till the point that they are in direct communication with Alphabay admins (not to mention nicknames ) which means they have been pushing hard their scheme of pumping monero.
One of this members have proposed to alphabay administrators to accept monero on their ilegal site with the promise to further wash their stolen btc and to multiply them by pumpin the coin x7 times of the original price which shouldnt be more than 2-3$ .

This lucrious proposal have been very attracting to alphabay admins which they immidiately started implementing monero on the site and after that they started the real action (converting stolen bitcoins to monero )in other means stacking up and manipulting the monero market on their only / centralized exchange (i wonder what will happen to monero if poloniex gets hacked probably by criminals like alphabay admins) ....story continues stat tuned for monero exposure ...(part 2 there is going to be made some real revelation )

[.m.]

I find DASH really interesting, I do not understand, why people here talk about other coin. Please go somewhere else.