[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Hippie Tech]

Where is all this hashpower coming from ?

Stratum exploit ? Asics ? Not so secret sgminer settings ? Botnets ? lol

http://www.drkpool.com/

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[TanteStefana]

1.) How do you know the key was destroyed? What if they faked it?

Are you thinking of anoncoin? AFAIK cryptonote doesn't have that problem, but I could be wrong.

"Other issues include the RSA private key used to initiate the accumulator, which must be trusted to be destroyed by the generating party"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

They're talking about zerocoin there, right? Section topic is "How does this compare to other anonymous solutions?"

Actually, it looks like monero is doing something similar to what Evan has done.  Would have to read it closer.  Still, why is this person here tolling?  What is their point?  They don't seem to understand anything about Darkcoin beyond coinjoin?

[eizh]

1.) How do you know the key was destroyed? What if they faked it?

Are you thinking of anoncoin? AFAIK cryptonote doesn't have that problem, but I could be wrong.

"Other issues include the RSA private key used to initiate the accumulator, which must be trusted to be destroyed by the generating party"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

They're talking about zerocoin there, right? Section topic is "How does this compare to other anonymous solutions?"

Correct, that refers to ZKP-based approaches. CryptoNote uses ring signatures so it doesn't require any such thing.

[jakecrow]

Where is all this hashpower coming from ?

Stratum exploit ? Asics ? Not so secret sgminer settings ? Botnets ? lol

http://www.drkpool.com/

People have giant farms, it's not really a secret! I know someone with 200x 290s, I have zero doubt there are larger farms out there.

[TanteStefana]

Where is all this hashpower coming from ?

Stratum exploit ? Asics ? Not so secret sgminer settings ? Botnets ? lol

http://www.drkpool.com/

The NSA of course....er and maybe my computer 'cause it started acting up this morning.  I think it's infected, and I've been scanning all last night for some bot (grrrr!!!), LOL.  I hope it'll finish before i have to go to bed!

But seriously, as the price goes up, the multipools are bound to dive in, driving the difficulty up.

[AlexGR]

Where is all this hashpower coming from ?

Stratum exploit ? Asics ? Not so secret sgminer settings ? Botnets ? lol

http://www.drkpool.com/

I don't see any option for "scrypt farms going X11 due to scrypt ASICs"...

0.5-1 ghash scrypt farms were mining in LTC and DOGE prior to ASICs, so that's ~1.5 to 3 ghash in terms of x11 hashrate.

Note that I'm not necessarily saying it's GPU farms, but it's the most plausible scenario especially for farms in a large number of countries where the electric bill is too high for any scrypt profitability.

[Kai Proctor]

Where is all this hashpower coming from ?

Stratum exploit ? Asics ? Not so secret sgminer settings ? Botnets ? lol

http://www.drkpool.com/

And ? You find those hashrates exceptional ? Not me... Some GPU farms which used to mine Litecoin are mining Darkcoin now.

[ac2]

Firstly, this is not intended to be an act of trolling. I was quite heavily invested in Dark, and believed in it's cause.

However, I would like you to carefully consider your position.

The darksend option of anonymity could be smashed by the NSA quite easily.

The anonymity market share you own - on the assumption that darksend works flawlessly - is about to be overtaken by Monero, and similar clones.

Their anonymity solution is superior to yours, developed by hackers. A purely trustless solution.

Good luck to you all, but buyer beware.

https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

PS. Darkwallet also should not be underestimated, simply because you don't like it...

While zeroknowledge proofs are neat just imagine the blockchain sitting there for 10 years accumulating your data, then one of a few things happen:

1.) The key used to start the system was never destroyed and was kept the entire time so a very powerful entity could see everything that goes on
2.) An exploit is found and suddenly the entire blockchain is cleartext

Darksend has no such vulnerabilities. The encryption we use could be completely broken and all of the transactions that have happened would still be anonymous.

Darksend relies on a collateral system - 1000drks per masternode, randomly selected masternodes, and these nodes sign off on the pooled transactions.

Sounds safe...how much money do you think the NSA has? How easy to simply stockpile virtually all the darks out there, and have the majority of masternodes running...

Sorry Evan but they are laughing at this solution...they will simply allow your network to grow, allow users to feel safe and protected, yet know the vast majority of transactions.

The only real solution to anonymity is encrypted packets of information, that are visible on the network by can only be decrypted by the intended recipient using their private key.

You are a smart, well intended dev. You have a loyal team, you have done well. But your solution is flawed.

I don't believe for a second that anyone at the NSA has bought a single dark, we're coming up on their blind side.  They simply can't function that quickly.  Those at the decision making levels haven't taken notice of us, who are we?  Even if they did, they'd need over 50% of the masternode, and with several levels of mixing the transactions, there only needs to be one masternode in there that they don't control.  So when finished, if each darksend transaction goes through 5 levels of mixing, I don't even think 75% control would do it.  Certainly not consistently, they'd have to get lucky.

I know the idea is to hide from the NSA, but my interest is hiding from the public, and I believe this does a better job.  Clean, simple, using logic rather than math that I don't understand.  If I can't understand it, I don't want to deal with it.  It's good we have personal choice like this.  I see absolutely no flaw in Evan's take on privacy

 

"I don't believe for a second that anyone at the NSA has bought a single dark, we're coming up on their blind side.  They simply can't function that quickly." 

"Using logic rather than math that I don't understand.  If I can't understand it, I don't want to deal with it."

Tante, surely you want a solution that cannot be broken? Darkcoin's market cap is only $10 million. Impressive by our standards, but simply pittances to any worthy adversary.

Darkcoin should be aiming for an unbreakable solution, an unhackable solution, anonymity that cannot be overcome simply by owning a large enough % of coins.

We don't want users to simply feel safe, but to actually be safe. Coinjoin, darksend, and any other future derivative that relies on mixing pools of transactions is inevevitably going to fail the anonymity test, as the signer of the pooled transaction has access to information.

The only true solution is an encrypted packet of information approach, where although the packet is visible on the network, the contents - and ability to open said contents - is only accessible to the recipient (ie, their encrypted wallet's private key).

Nope, i'm not here to troll. In fact, my guess is that the price and market share will continue to rise. So if you are only loyal to this coin to see an increase in your wealth you probably will. But no one with serious $ they wish to transfer with reliable anonymity will use your coin.

[eduffield]

1.) How do you know the key was destroyed? What if they faked it?

Are you thinking of anoncoin? AFAIK cryptonote doesn't have that problem, but I could be wrong.

"Other issues include the RSA private key used to initiate the accumulator, which must be trusted to be destroyed by the generating party"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

They're talking about zerocoin there, right? Section topic is "How does this compare to other anonymous solutions?"

Correct, that refers to ZKP-based approaches. CryptoNote uses ring signatures so it doesn't require any such thing.

Yeah, I was confusing the two. Actually, awhile back Anonymint was suggesting we use ring signatures for DarkSend. I'll do some research, maybe that can be a V2 feature.

[eltito]

1.) How do you know the key was destroyed? What if they faked it?

Are you thinking of anoncoin? AFAIK cryptonote doesn't have that problem, but I could be wrong.

"Other issues include the RSA private key used to initiate the accumulator, which must be trusted to be destroyed by the generating party"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

They're talking about zerocoin there, right? Section topic is "How does this compare to other anonymous solutions?"

Correct, that refers to ZKP-based approaches. CryptoNote uses ring signatures so it doesn't require any such thing.

Yeah, I was confusing the two. Actually, awhile back Anonymint was suggesting we use ring signatures for DarkSend. I'll do some research, maybe that can be a V2 feature.

That's what it was, I was looking for that post to ask about it again.

[TanteStefana]

Tante, surely you want a solution that cannot be broken? Darkcoin's market cap is only $10 million. Impressive by our standards, but simply pittances to any worthy adversary.

Darkcoin should be aiming for an unbreakable solution, an unhackable solution, anonymity that cannot be overcome simply by owning a large enough % of coins.

We don't want users to simply feel safe, but to actually be safe. Coinjoin, darksend, and any other future derivative that relies on mixing pools of transactions is inevevitably going to fail the anonymity test, as the signer of the pooled transaction has access to information.

The only true solution is an encrypted packet of information approach, where although the packet is visible on the network, the contents - and ability to open said contents - is only accessible to the recipient (ie, their encrypted wallet's private key).

Nope, i'm not here to troll. In fact, my guess is that the price and market share will continue to rise. So if you are only loyal to this coin to see an increase in your wealth you probably will. But no one with serious $ they wish to transfer with reliable anonymity will use your coin.

sorry, I still don't see a hole.  Unless an entity has control of all the masternodes in a transaction, they will never know what happened.  Better still, non of these transactions ever go on the blockchain, so the past can never be revealed.  Finally, Evan is constantly coming up with other ideas to improve upon what we have.  Nope, you can't convince me that what Evan has come up with is faulty.   i won't say that there aren't other great solutions to be found and implemented though.  I'm sure there will be.  Monero sounds interesting, i'm looking at it, but if I can't understand it ultimately, I won't feel comfortable using it.  But that's just me

BTW, if an entity should get lucky and discover the ip address and payment info for a transaction, their luck would probably reveal a transaction where one entity bought some new furniture, another sent his nephew some graduation coin, and a third paid for his vacation in Bali.  None of which are illegal, so they spent all this money to try and spy on normal people doing normal things (i maintain that most people don't do illegal things).  The likelihood some NSA top official would risk his plushy career on spending a fortune on cryptos is pritty slim.  They didn't get their ass widening seated plushy jobs from taking risks,  believe me. 

[Kai Proctor]

Yes you are a troll, with the basic "I give you some free advice because I care about you" attitude. I'm flattered that you dedicate such a large part of your small post count to enlighten us. /sarcasm

[eizh]

Darkcoin should be aiming for an unbreakable solution, an unhackable solution, anonymity that cannot be overcome simply by owning a large enough % of coins.

We don't want users to simply feel safe, but to actually be safe. Coinjoin, darksend, and any other future derivative that relies on mixing pools of transactions is inevevitably going to fail the anonymity test, as the signer of the pooled transaction has access to information.

The only true solution is an encrypted packet of information approach, where although the packet is visible on the network, the contents - and ability to open said contents - is only accessible to the recipient (ie, their encrypted wallet's private key).

I don't really agree with this. Encryption isn't the only answer. What you pointed out before (Monero and any other CryptoNote protocol coins) actually achieve extremely high anonymity. As shown in the whitepaper (https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf), the ring signatures they use cannot be broken. They have a mathematical proof in the appendix that shows the true signer in the ring signature is impossible to determine with greater than 1/N probability, N being the number of outputs being mixed. Your standards may be high, but this is really, really good for practical purposes and would stand up well to blockchain analysis.

There are some other advantages too, e.g. you mix outputs not transactions so you don't need to participate with others sending the same time as you. For the same reason, arbitrary amounts can be sent without worrying about timing analysis or tracking change.

[MarryUncle]

Someone compile wallets before release please! (Someone should[?] do a coingen-like site compiling the wallets of those who can't do it)

@OP: Which hashing algos? More info!  Grin

[TanteStefana]

Darkcoin should be aiming for an unbreakable solution, an unhackable solution, anonymity that cannot be overcome simply by owning a large enough % of coins.

We don't want users to simply feel safe, but to actually be safe. Coinjoin, darksend, and any other future derivative that relies on mixing pools of transactions is inevevitably going to fail the anonymity test, as the signer of the pooled transaction has access to information.

The only true solution is an encrypted packet of information approach, where although the packet is visible on the network, the contents - and ability to open said contents - is only accessible to the recipient (ie, their encrypted wallet's private key).

I don't really agree with this. Encryption isn't the only answer. What you pointed out before (Monero and any other CryptoNote protocol coins) actually achieve extremely high anonymity. As shown in the whitepaper (https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf), the ring signatures they use cannot be broken. They have a mathematical proof in the appendix that shows the true signer in the ring signature is impossible to determine with greater than 1/N probability, N being the number of outputs being mixed. Your standards may be high, but this is really, really good for practical purposes and would stand up well to blockchain analysis.

There are some other advantages too, e.g. you mix outputs not transactions so you don't need to participate with others sending the same time as you. For the same reason, arbitrary amounts can be sent without worrying about timing analysis or tracking change.

DarkSend also has multiple levels of outputs, and can not be followed  Ip addresses are washed away at the first level, and not connected to any of the subsequent mixing.  Does CryptoNote actually exist and function yet?

[ayruel]

Mine with us : http://dark.minerstation.com/

0.5% fee only

[eizh]

sorry, I still don't see a hole.  Unless an entity has control of all the masternodes in a transaction, they will never know what happened.  Better still, non of these transactions ever go on the blockchain, so the past can never be revealed.  Finally, Evan is constantly coming up with other ideas to improve upon what we have.  Nope, you can't convince me that what Evan has come up with is faulty.   i won't say that there aren't other great solutions to be found and implemented though.  I'm sure there will be.  Monero sounds interesting, i'm looking at it, but if I can't understand it ultimately, I won't feel comfortable using it.  But that's just me

The fact that cryptography is being used here isn't really a problem. You use Bitcoin and derivatives without understanding the elliptic curve crypto (ECDSA) they use, don't you? Unlike ZKP, which is brand new and exploits are unknown, ring signatures are more than a decade old and well-established. CryptoNote is the first time they've been employed for currency, though.

DarkSend also has multiple levels of outputs, and can not be followed  Ip addresses are washed away at the first level, and not connected to any of the subsequent mixing.  Does CryptoNote actually exist and function yet?

Yes, it's fully functioning already. You can download the wallet and start using it just by entering a parameter in the send command.

[chaeplin]

Darkcoin Masternode by Country




Next will be "Darkcoin Masternode by ISP"

[TanteStefana]

sorry, I still don't see a hole.  Unless an entity has control of all the masternodes in a transaction, they will never know what happened.  Better still, non of these transactions ever go on the blockchain, so the past can never be revealed.  Finally, Evan is constantly coming up with other ideas to improve upon what we have.  Nope, you can't convince me that what Evan has come up with is faulty.   i won't say that there aren't other great solutions to be found and implemented though.  I'm sure there will be.  Monero sounds interesting, i'm looking at it, but if I can't understand it ultimately, I won't feel comfortable using it.  But that's just me

The fact that cryptography is being used here isn't really a problem. You use Bitcoin and derivatives without understanding the elliptic curve crypto (ECDSA) they use, don't you? Unlike ZKP, which is brand new and exploits are unknown, ring signatures are more than a decade old and well-established. CryptoNote is the first time they've been employed for currency, though.

DarkSend also has multiple levels of outputs, and can not be followed  Ip addresses are washed away at the first level, and not connected to any of the subsequent mixing.  Does CryptoNote actually exist and function yet?

Yes, it's fully functioning already. You can download the wallet and start using it just by entering a parameter in the send command.

Woe, I hit a block wall of drama.... something about closed source, parts that have to do with mining, not mixing....

Anyway, who are you and what do you want?  Are you promoting another coin on our thread?  If so, that's bad form, IMO.  I doubt you'd see Evan promoting on other threads, sure he'd answer questions, but no promo / FUD ever!

[Propulsion]

sorry, I still don't see a hole.  Unless an entity has control of all the masternodes in a transaction, they will never know what happened.  Better still, non of these transactions ever go on the blockchain, so the past can never be revealed.  Finally, Evan is constantly coming up with other ideas to improve upon what we have.  Nope, you can't convince me that what Evan has come up with is faulty.   i won't say that there aren't other great solutions to be found and implemented though.  I'm sure there will be.  Monero sounds interesting, i'm looking at it, but if I can't understand it ultimately, I won't feel comfortable using it.  But that's just me

The fact that cryptography is being used here isn't really a problem. You use Bitcoin and derivatives without understanding the elliptic curve crypto (ECDSA) they use, don't you? Unlike ZKP, which is brand new and exploits are unknown, ring signatures are more than a decade old and well-established. CryptoNote is the first time they've been employed for currency, though.

DarkSend also has multiple levels of outputs, and can not be followed  Ip addresses are washed away at the first level, and not connected to any of the subsequent mixing.  Does CryptoNote actually exist and function yet?

Yes, it's fully functioning already. You can download the wallet and start using it just by entering a parameter in the send command.

Woe, I hit a block wall of drama.... something about closed source, parts that have to do with mining, not mixing....

Anyway, who are you and what do you want?  Are you promoting another coin on our thread?  If so, that's bad form, IMO.  I doubt you'd see Evan promoting on other threads, sure he'd answer questions, but no promo / FUD ever!

I like this guy. He challenges the developers and competition is always healthy. Plus he just made me 30 darkcoin so $66.15 at todays going rate.