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Author Topic: [ANN] [HVC] Heavycoin - Ultra-secure, Decentralized Block Reward Voting, Fast  (Read 541687 times)
cryptomines
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April 29, 2014, 04:52:08 PM
 #5081

what's wrong with HVC?

Who is killing it?

The voting is HVC's problem and it's the +500 votes that are killing it, IMO.

I turned my rig back on HVC with a 0 vote.  Curious to see if it makes a difference now that there are less people mining it.

It's clear that the devs will maintain HVC but not do much more. The community is very much in the wheelhouse on this one.

A community rally that significantly drops the vote might help HVC at this point.
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April 29, 2014, 04:53:35 PM
 #5082

what's wrong with HVC?

Who is killing it?

The voting is HVC's problem and it's the +500 votes that are killing it, IMO.

I turned my rig back on HVC with a 0 vote.  Curious to see if it makes a difference now that there are less people mining it.

It's clear that the devs will maintain HVC but not do much more. The community is very much in the wheelhouse on this one.

A community rally that significantly drops the vote might help HVC at this point.


I voted 1 from the beginning nothing change...
TheRealSteve
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April 29, 2014, 05:05:05 PM
 #5083

I voted 1 from the beginning nothing change...
Unless you had mad hashing power - little would change.  I think the voting aspect was a great demonstration of how pure democratic votes often end up not representing the will of the masses, but rather of those who influence the masses, and the destructive effects of apathy Smiley

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April 29, 2014, 05:19:39 PM
 #5084

The voting part was a fail imo.
Cool ideia on paper... not so great on reality.
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April 29, 2014, 10:00:24 PM
 #5085

what's wrong with HVC?

Who is killing it?

The voting is HVC's problem and it's the +500 votes that are killing it, IMO.

I turned my rig back on HVC with a 0 vote.  Curious to see if it makes a difference now that there are less people mining it.

It's clear that the devs will maintain HVC but not do much more. The community is very much in the wheelhouse on this one.

A community rally that significantly drops the vote might help HVC at this point.


+1 for community activity

cayars
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April 30, 2014, 01:10:04 AM
Last edit: April 30, 2014, 11:08:35 AM by cayars
 #5086

Nice to see you Keccak512 still around.

Looking at ZHPool's last 20 blocks we are averaging 493.

Downside is we are under 25GB global hash which puts the possibility of >50% attack within reach for small/mid size farms.  I know a few people who could own us right now and do whatever they wanted (more or less). I have a cheesy small personal system and "own" 1/25th of the network right now which is very bad. Sad  (edit make that 1/250th)

Upside is with less global hash those still mining are getting more blocks and earning more now. Smiley

Keccak512, don't mean to harp on it but any chance you have reconsidered a change to the timeline or a change to the way the voting algorithm works? It's not to late to make an adjustment.

Carlo

PS if you don't understand the problem many of us have with the voting or timeline, I'd be very happy to take it off-line and have a very civil non-confrontational conversation about it if that would help via IRC, phone, email or whatever.
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April 30, 2014, 10:11:34 AM
 #5087

what's wrong with HVC?

Who is killing it?

The voting is HVC's problem and it's the +500 votes that are killing it, IMO.

I turned my rig back on HVC with a 0 vote.  Curious to see if it makes a difference now that there are less people mining it.

It's clear that the devs will maintain HVC but not do much more. The community is very much in the wheelhouse on this one.

A community rally that significantly drops the vote might help HVC at this point.


+1 for community activity




It's nice to see the dev is still around Smiley

About the votes i have a question:
Can the pool operators put a restriction on miners with votes higher than say... 10.
Not accepting shares with a vote higher than the set number?
ibinsad
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April 30, 2014, 10:20:11 AM
 #5088

what's wrong with HVC?

Who is killing it?

The voting is HVC's problem and it's the +500 votes that are killing it, IMO.

I turned my rig back on HVC with a 0 vote.  Curious to see if it makes a difference now that there are less people mining it.

It's clear that the devs will maintain HVC but not do much more. The community is very much in the wheelhouse on this one.

A community rally that significantly drops the vote might help HVC at this point.


+1 for community activity




It's nice to see the dev is still around Smiley

About the votes i have a question:
Can the pool operators put a restriction on miners with votes higher than say... 10.
Not accepting shares with a vote higher than the set number?


Probably it will be better to implement directly into Hefty1 algo,
something like..
if the value of the coin < 2000 satoshi, the max vote will be < 50
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April 30, 2014, 10:33:40 AM
 #5089



It's nice to see the dev is still around Smiley

About the votes i have a question:
Can the pool operators put a restriction on miners with votes higher than say... 10.
Not accepting shares with a vote higher than the set number?


Probably it will be better to implement directly into Hefty1 algo,
something like..
if the value of the coin < 2000 satoshi, the max vote will be < 50


Sure, if the dev changes the voting in the algo that's always better, but in case he does not want to change it, maybe we could use the pools to "fix it".
Dunno if it's possible, any pool operator around?
reorder
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April 30, 2014, 10:47:29 AM
 #5090

I have a cheesy small personal system and "own" 1/25th of the network right now which is very bad. Sad

A small personal system of 50x 280X? Now that's one hardcore BF player!
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April 30, 2014, 11:13:56 AM
 #5091

Pool hash rates and miners
pool
rate (Mh/s)*
delta***
% of network
miners**
   rate/miner
fee (%)
payout
http://hvc.1gh.com/
13,821.17
-3,800.56
52.23
1
RBPPS
http://heavycoin.zhpool.com/
12,416.10
401.60
46.92
247.8
50.11
1
PPLNS
http://heavycoin.miningpoolhub.com/
8.51
-52.76
0.03
1.3
6.55
1
PROP
http://hvc.nonce-pool.com/
217.09
131.27
0.82
13.6
38.4
1
PPLNS
http://heavy.stablehash.com/
0.00
0.00
0
0
0
1
PROP
https://hvc.crunchharder.net/
0.00
0.00
0
0
0
2
PPLNS
total
26,462.88
-3,320.46
100
* due to rate variability displayed through pool statistics pages, rates are based on average of 10 samples over the past hour
** miner count for 1gh unavailable
*** Delta since last update


Block Progression and Pool Luck

last 24h
1gh
nonce
zhpool
poolhub
hash avg
14,519.85
188.22
12,107.33
70.16
blocks
438
5
344
1
hash %
54.01
0.70
45.03
0.26
blocks %
55.58
0.63
43.65
0.13
luck %
102.90
90.60
96.90
48.60
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
last 7d
1gh
nonce
zhpool
poolhub
hash avg
18,796.63
289.97
13,954.42
2,568.61
blocks
3,017
41
1,950
207
hash %
52.79
0.81
39.19
7.21
blocks %
57.85
0.79
37.39
3.97
luck %
109.60
96.55
95.42
55.03

1gh Top stats
Top 100Mhash/s|Top 10Mhash/s
Total:13,158.99|Total:4,159.05
Mean rate:131.59|Mean rate:415.91
Median rate:69.46|Median rate:381.90
Mode(10) rate:20|Mode(100) rate:300
% of pool:95.2%|% of pool:30.1%
% of network:49.7%|% of network:15.7%

Pool voting


Mining (indicative, not authoritative!)
payoff per Mhash/s / dayideal solo
1gh
nonce
zhpool
poolhub
HVC11.37288
11.37
10.02
9.90
5.71
mBTC0.09781
0.10
0.09
0.09
0.05
USD0.04347
0.04
0.04
0.04
0.02
|
|
|
|
|
|
pool take/day
1gh
nonce
zhpool
poolhub
HVC
2,159.31
29.34
1,395.64
148.15
BTC
0.02
0.00
0.01
0.00
USD
8.25
0.11
5.33
0.57
Based on last 7 days performance and... block reward: HVC501 | mBTC/HVC: 0.0086 | USD/BTC: $444.4

cayars
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April 30, 2014, 11:22:49 AM
 #5092

I have a cheesy small personal system and "own" 1/25th of the network right now which is very bad. Sad

A small personal system of 50x 280X? Now that's one hardcore BF player!

Good catch, made a typo, missed a ZERO. Should have said 1/250th. (edited original post).
mix of 4 AMDs, 5 nVidias and some CPUs on HVC at the moment. 100MH/s or so

Hehe, if I had 50x 280X Rigs, I wouldn't call my system "cheesy".  Grin
TheRealSteve
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April 30, 2014, 11:40:38 AM
 #5093

About the votes i have a question:
Can the pool operators put a restriction on miners with votes higher than say... 10.
Not accepting shares with a vote higher than the set number?
They could - but why would they?

See my stats post for 1gh's potential revenue from their miners - ~$8.25/day given the parameters noted.

Compare that to rejecting solved blocks with 'too high' votes.  You mentioned accepting only votes <= 10.  In 1gh's case, that would leave ~19.86% of their votes.  ~$8.25 * ~19.86% ~= $1.64/day.  That's an immediate loss just from rejecting the other ~80.14%.  Say all of them will actually check out why their shares are being rejected, go to the website, and presumably read that the pool only accepts votes <= 10 - in reality, many miners won't even notice right away.  Let's also say all of them will adjust their vote and stay at 1gh, instead of the closer reality of just stopping HVC mining or hopping to a different pool.  The reward is eventually adjusted - let's say that's to 10.  Say 1gh does this at the worst possible time for payouts but best possible time for voting (as it's an average of 3600 blocks) and it takes ~5 days for that reward adjustment.  A new exchange rate would have to make up for 5*(~$8.25 - ~$1.64) ~= $33 lost.  The exchange rate would have to increase quite a bit.  They'd have to do so because they have a very strong belief that this will cause a sustained growth for the coin, and thus ultimately for them.  But that's really only just 'potentially', and with the waning popularity as it is ('+1 COMMUNITY EFFORT!'), that's a crapshoot at best.

If a pool wanted to play chicken with fate on this, I'd imagine they'd have to do this in a gradual fashion - rejecting an increasing % of those votes and starting at the high end.
Though at this point, pools are bleeding miners anyway, so maybe going cold turkey on it would make a good swan song Wink

cayars
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April 30, 2014, 12:02:41 PM
 #5094

To add to what TheRealSteve just typed:
Depending on how a pool implemented this it could also reduce Hash rates too which would be bad for the network as a whole.

Short of an actual code change, EDUCATION and COMMUNITY awareness is still the best bet. IE set your vote count to 0 or 1.



MAYBE PEOPLE JUST NEED ADDITIONAL INCENTIVE TO VOTE LOW:

Maybe part of the HeavyFund could be used to "raffle" off a few sets of coins per day for anyone who submits a share with a vote under 10 or solves a block or something.

Wouldn't be hard to gather up all solved blocks for the day with a vote of say 10 or under and pick a random winner and give them X coins. Could be one winner a day or 5.  But something like this could be "just enough" motivation to get some additional people to lower their votes! Could even make sure you can't win again if you already won in the last 5 days or something.  Help spread the reward to more people and get the votes down some more.

Carlo
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April 30, 2014, 01:25:02 PM
 #5095

I'm sure this is purely coincidental but I seem to find more blocks when vote is set to 0.

I think adding some incentive to vote low is a great idea, but that would violate the democratic integrity. Not that anyone cares, as most people continue to ask for a change to the voting, but the devs seem dead set on leaving the voting as it is. So, community education and prodding is all we have to make change happen.

Looking at the latest charts from TheRealSteve it appears the number of 1024 votes are down, which is great, but the majority of votes still fall between 250 - 700. Miners please consider lowering your vote, we have yet to see a sub 500 block reward.
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April 30, 2014, 01:42:40 PM
 #5096

Kekka reply me:

no.  the HEFTY1 algorithm has nothing to do with voting.  These are not even remotely related in the code.

Heavycoin is not about forcing behavior or a particular outcome.  the votes are purely up to the voters.

Quote
Can you implement directly into Hefty1 algo,
something like..
 
if the value of the coin < 2000 satoshi, the max vote will be = 50
if the value of the coin < 5000 satoshi, the max vote will be = 100

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April 30, 2014, 02:10:33 PM
 #5097

Looking at the latest charts from TheRealSteve it appears the number of 1024 votes are down
that made me curious, so.. animated GIF:


I'm not sure how well it conveys the information, though - note that poolhub's 512 vote is going up because poolhub now only has a few miners left, and I guess one of those left votes 512 - but ideally (for those wanting lower votes anyway), the circles further to the right should go both lower and become smaller.  Height is % of votes at that pool, circle size influence of votes at network.  Can't really say I'm seeing much of that happening Smiley

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April 30, 2014, 06:42:11 PM
 #5098

Looking at the latest charts from TheRealSteve it appears the number of 1024 votes are down
that made me curious, so.. animated GIF:


I'm not sure how well it conveys the information, though - note that poolhub's 512 vote is going up because poolhub now only has a few miners left, and I guess one of those left votes 512 - but ideally (for those wanting lower votes anyway), the circles further to the right should go both lower and become smaller.  Height is % of votes at that pool, circle size influence of votes at network.  Can't really say I'm seeing much of that happening Smiley

Maybe not as much change as I had thought. Slick animation tho, and thanks for the explanation.

I'd like to ask all miners voting 500 or less to vote 1 for a few weeks and see if we can't pull this vote down. There will always be miners who vote high, but if all the miners voting low voted as low as possible (1 or 0) we could potentially see some change. This will slow the inflation rate and hopefully shed some positive light on HVC.

For those who are new to mining HVC we have had a +500 block reward since launch, it's not the sole factor this coin has lost value but it is a big contributing factor. We have nothing to lose by dropping the block reward and only stand to gain.
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May 01, 2014, 08:59:35 AM
 #5099

Pool hash rates and miners
pool
rate (Mh/s)*
delta***
% of network
miners**
   rate/miner
fee (%)
payout
http://hvc.1gh.com/
14,477.86
656.69
50.15
1
RBPPS
http://heavycoin.zhpool.com/
13,341.10
925.00
46.21
249.9
53.39
1
PPLNS
http://heavycoin.miningpoolhub.com/
20.90
12.39
0.07
1.6
13.06
1
PROP
http://hvc.nonce-pool.com/
294.08
76.99
1.02
20.4
38.4
1
PPLNS
http://heavy.stablehash.com/
0.00
0.00
0
0
0
1
PROP
https://hvc.crunchharder.net/
0.00
0.00
0
0
0
2
PPLNS
total
28,133.94
1,671.07
97.45
network rate
28,870
4,720
* due to rate variability displayed through pool statistics pages, rates are based on average of 10 samples over the past hour
** miner count for 1gh unavailable
*** Delta since last update


Block Progression and Pool Luck

last 24h
1gh
nonce
zhpool
poolhub
hash avg
14,326.84
278.45
12,548.80
30.77
blocks
402
8
332
1
hash %
52.70
1.02
46.16
0.11
blocks %
54.10
1.08
44.68
0.13
luck %
102.70
105.10
96.80
118.90
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
last 7d
1gh
nonce
zhpool
poolhub
hash avg
17,620.32
281.03
13,568.47
1,640.24
blocks
2,960
42
1,993
142
hash %
53.22
0.85
40.98
4.95
blocks %
57.62
0.82
38.80
2.76
luck %
108.28
96.33
94.67
55.80

1gh Top stats
Top 100Mhash/s|Top 10Mhash/s
Total:13,711.27|Total:4,568.77
Mean rate:137.11|Mean rate:456.88
Median rate:67.86|Median rate:390.58
Mode(10) rate:20|Mode(100) rate:300
% of pool:94.7%|% of pool:31.6%
% of network:48.7%|% of network:16.2%

Pool voting


Mining (indicative, not authoritative!)
payoff per Mhash/s / dayideal solo
1gh
nonce
zhpool
poolhub
HVC11.90290
11.90
10.59
10.41
6.13
mBTC0.10022
0.10
0.09
0.09
0.05
USD0.04561
0.05
0.04
0.04
0.02
|
|
|
|
|
|
pool take/day
1gh
nonce
zhpool
poolhub
HVC
2,118.51
30.06
1,426.42
101.63
BTC
0.02
0.00
0.01
0.00
USD
8.12
0.12
5.47
0.39
Based on last 7 days performance and... block reward: HVC501 | mBTC/HVC: 0.00842 | USD/BTC: $455.1

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May 01, 2014, 01:03:57 PM
 #5100

Nice change of pace in today's report.  Every pool went up a bit in hash! (yay!!!)


Last 20 and 10 block average votes at Nonce: 256.85, 77 (yay!!!)
Last 20 and 10 block average votes at ZHPool: 665.8, 819.3 (boo!!!)

Come on guys, Lower your votes to 0 or 1.

Carlo
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