[ANN] [HVC] Heavycoin - Ultra-secure, Decentralized Block Reward Voting, Fast

[cayars]

LOL cayars...

"Do the math yourself" LOL. You're still only speculating on what the value/price will be. You cant "do the math" without that variable....

Sure you can, it's commonly called a "simulation".
plug in and run it at 1000 vote
do again at 800 vote,
do again at 700 vote, 600 vote, 500 vote,...100 vote, 10 vote, etc

You can very easily plot effects based on different vote counts to understand what will happen with all kinds of different vote counts.

Regardless what the vote is, there is no "speculation" to do the above.  You will observe the issues, how the reward per block jumps the wrong directions between phases with certain vote counts.  This makes it close to impossible for the value to track opposite with declining reward blocks (which is needed in an ideal world) into the sustain phase to keep miners, mining.

Then if you want (doesn't really matter) for kicks speculate on what you think the vote will be and try the math again.

Instead of trying to mock someone, do it yourself and gain some knowledge of what your talking about.

You'll see the vote ultimately doesn't really matter much unless it's well under 100 going into sustain and is more illusion then anything unless votes are under a 100 and the market is given time for the value of HVC to ramp up as the reward ramps down.

[1714232884]

1714232884

[cayars]

Miners always think they're so important. Guess what? They're not.

You are obviously more informed then I then.  By all means, please enlighten us how the security of the network holds if we lose mass miners?  I'm all ears waiting to hear/learn how this works.

[kqpahv]

I still don't get what the big deal is...

In one word: SECURITY

So what, so some guy makes an argument (and that's all it is, an argument, nothing technically wrong with the coin) about time frames and mint phases ect, and what HE THINKs is best...

We can all speculate on how things will play out, but fact of the matter is, not one single person or one single crypto-currency will ever get supply/demand/time correct. Its impossible to predict the traction something will gain/not gain with any sort of real accuracy. Adding the voting was a new and innovative way of trying to deal with this reality, and is offering a much better experiment/feature then 99% of the all the other coins out there.

Also, all of you claiming the coin is dead because its not getting a complete make over every week...  The devs are not required to do anything but pass out bounties, and "SUPPORT THE COIN". Implementing some random dudes argument about what he thinks is better IS NOT part of their responsibility.

Does the Litecoin developer sit in the Litecoin thread all day long responding to trolls?? No... He does not, and nobody cares because all that matters is security updates and basic bug fixes. No little argument about economic models is going to change the rules of Litecoin, and subsequently the whole game for all the investors who already bought in already knowing and agreeing to those rules. To change the coin properties based on one speculator would be unfair to everyone else.

ALSO, why wouldn't you just trade on your speculation about what will happen to price down the road, when it happens, Instead of coming in here now and making multiple long posts about it?? Especially if you were a supposed stake holder... I think we all know by now that there really is only one reason to do such things... Just sad how much this coin has taken a beating from all this. Could have really had some natural momentum going for it from the starting line, but now everyone is all skeptical because of the price drop.  

Don't take anyone's word for it. Breakout a spreadsheet or get out your calculator and some paper and do a few math problems.  Will take you all of 5 or 10 minutes. You can easily figure out what the vote counts will do to the different phases of the coin. Just run it 3 times.  Vote of 1, 512 and 1024 to see the extremes and mid vote.  Then use a number you think from your gut that will be the vote count entering each phase.

What happens and will there be miners left in the sustain phase?  If not you have a security problem and the coin is compromised.  You'll see for yourself what happens with a mid-point vote of 512 which more then likely will be close to the vote give or take 150.  Reward jumps up in second phase (which will more then likely cause the coin to de-value as more coins are being produced.  Then it drops to at most 8 HVC in 3rd phase.  How does the coin survive a 100 fold decrease in mining profitability?  It can't in all but the most likelyhood.  When you loose miners, you loose hashing and all your coins security.

But again, don't take anyone's word for it.  Do the math yourself, then come back and post what you find.  Then decide if it's something you want to mine now or invest in.

If the answer is YES, then you basically have as much coins to buy cheap now that you want.

LOL cayars...

"Do the math yourself" LOL. You're still only speculating on what the value/price will be. You cant "do the math" without that variable....

Yeah, like the price is a MAGICAL variable that lives a life of its own and is not tied to other variables at all
For 5 HVC blockrewards to work the price would have to increase 100x +. Even then it takes a less than 10btc investment to perform a 51% attack to just kill the coin. Who in their right minds would invest in something that risky and vulnerable ?
Now how exactly do you see the value increasing 100 folds if even at current all time low prices the daily volume is 3btc   ?
Cayars uses logic in his speculations you are just hoping on "magical" price increase lol. I dumped all 0.5M HVC's at the 2300-2000satoshi range and am not planning to buy in before something is done.

[cayars]

ALSO, why wouldn't you just trade on your speculation about what will happen to price down the road, when it happens, Instead of coming in here now and making multiple long posts about it?? Especially if you were a supposed stake holder... I think we all know by now that there really is only one reason to do such things... Just sad how much this coin has taken a beating from all this. Could have really had some natural momentum going for it from the starting line, but now everyone is all skeptical because of the price drop.   

Who said I was a stake holder?  I wasn't involved in IPO and only have a few small mining rigs. I didn't sell any of my holdings until after my initial post on 4/9 and AFTER the first post from keccak512 saying my post was a "doomsday" message he didn't agree with and wouldn't make any changes. Then I SOLD EVERYTHING I HAD at that time at around 3500-3600ish. No advantage over anyone else.  Just for the record, I have not and presently do not plan on purchasing any HVC unless something changes.  I continue to mine HVC with 1 or 2 GPUs but that is all. I just started mining this coin like everyone else on day one. The only reason I continue to mine with a GPU or two is that I think that's only fare since I keep posting in the forum. Nothing more, nothing less.

The reason the coin is taking a beating is that people get what I've said (and many others) and understand the problems. It's the devs who either don't get it or don't care.  If you want to put blame on somebody then put the blame on the people who can change/fix it, not on those who report the problems.  The Devs have more or less went into hiding without addressing the issues, the lower hash rates, the falling price of HVC, etc.  (see posts from earlier today/yesterday).

Regardless of if I ever posted my finding, the problem would still be there come sustain phase. Somebody else would have figured the same thing out sooner or later. Would you rather keep mining and holding additional coins for another 3 months before finding out they are going to tank or would you rather have known 2 weeks ago?

Oh my god! Finally the vote is sub 500! To bad network hashrate is so low. But as I said before, this might be what we need to get the vote down to a good level for longer term mining. The problem is that if hvc gains value all the greedy miners will come back and vote high as they have done up untill now. This is the problem that never goes away. The hvc faithful will vote low because they believe long term mining is key to hvc success.

Plan B:
If you can't get the "high" voters to lower their vote, then scare them off the network  

You are dead/spot on, IMHO. Going to be vicious circle. But with lower hash and hopefully lower vote counts coming in some additional time has been bought to allow more time for things to work themselves out properly and allow the market to adjust.

Yeah, like the price is a MAGICAL variable that lives a life of its own and is not tied to other variables at all
For 5 HVC blockrewards to work the price would have to increase 100x +. Even then it takes a less than 10btc investment to perform a 51% attack to just kill the coin. Who in their right minds would invest in something that risky and vulnerable ?
Now how exactly do you see the value increasing 100 folds if even at current all time low prices the daily volume is 3btc   ?
Cayars uses logic in his speculations you are just hoping on "magical" price increase lol. I dumped all 0.5M HVC's at the 2300-2000satoshi range and am not planning to buy in before something is done.

Short and right to the point. Great summary! Glad somebody else gets it.

[gpools]

If they are not working coin dead now low vol

[tinus42]

Who said I was a stake holder?  I wasn't involved in IPO and only have a few small mining rigs. I didn't sell any of my holdings until after my initial post on 4/9 and AFTER the first post from keccak512 saying my post was a "doomsday" message he didn't agree with and wouldn't make any changes. Then I SOLD EVERYTHING I HAD at that time at around 3500-3600ish. No advantage over anyone else.  Just for the record, I have not and presently do not plan on purchasing any HVC unless something changes.  I continue to mine HVC with 1 or 2 GPUs but that is all. I just started mining this coin like everyone else on day one. The only reason I continue to mine with a GPU or two is that I think that's only fare since I keep posting in the forum. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why do you continue to mine then and spend lots of efforts posting in this thread if it is a worthless coin to you? The only motive I can think of if you found out how to short the coin and will profit should its price crash. Otherwise why bother?

[cayars]

Who said I was a stake holder?  I wasn't involved in IPO and only have a few small mining rigs. I didn't sell any of my holdings until after my initial post on 4/9 and AFTER the first post from keccak512 saying my post was a "doomsday" message he didn't agree with and wouldn't make any changes. Then I SOLD EVERYTHING I HAD at that time at around 3500-3600ish. No advantage over anyone else.  Just for the record, I have not and presently do not plan on purchasing any HVC unless something changes.  I continue to mine HVC with 1 or 2 GPUs but that is all. I just started mining this coin like everyone else on day one. The only reason I continue to mine with a GPU or two is that I think that's only fare since I keep posting in the forum. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why do you continue to mine then and spend lots of efforts posting in this thread if it is a worthless coin to you? The only motive I can think of if you found out how to short the coin and will profit should its price crash. Otherwise why bother?

Read message 5128 which answers almost the same question.

[Amph]

Glad somebody else gets it.

Trust me...  most of us get it...  just make an effort to differentiate your valid concerns about the block rewards with all these fools that are dumping like crazy and then come here to tell us how low HVC/BTC rates are...    

lol first they dump, then they come here and say why the coin is dying, utterly stupid

[TheRealSteve]

Pool hash rates and miners

pool	rate (Mh/s)*	delta***	% of network	miners**	rate/miner	fee (%)	payout
http://hvc.1gh.com/	24,653.47	-1,214.85	50.33			1	RBPPS
http://heavycoin.zhpool.com/	19,119.80	2,541.30	39.04	278.2	68.73	1	PPLNS
http://heavycoin.miningpoolhub.com/	7,296.93	1,851.32	14.9	35.4	206.13	1	PROP
http://hvc.nonce-pool.com/	358.44	59.22	0.73	22.8	38.4	1	PPLNS
http://heavy.stablehash.com/	0.00	0.00	0	0	0	1	PROP
https://hvc.crunchharder.net/	0.00	0.00	0	0	0	2	PPLNS
total	51,428.63	3,236.99

* due to rate variability displayed through pool statistics pages, rates are based on average of 10 samples over the past hour
** miner count for 1gh unavailable
*** Delta since last update

Block Progression and Pool Luck

last 24h 1gh nonce zhpool poolhub hash avg 25,194.13 293.22 16,476.15 6,314.96 blocks 501 8 261 51 hash % 52.19 0.61 34.13 13.08 blocks % 61.01 0.97 31.78 6.23 luck % 116.90 160.40 93.10 47.70

| | | | | | | |

last 7d 1gh nonce zhpool poolhub hash avg 31,509.11 707.98 22,186.86 4,634.10 blocks 3,319 86 2,084 296 hash % 53.37 1.20 37.58 7.85 blocks % 57.37 1.49 36.02 5.12 luck % 107.50 123.97 95.86 65.19

1gh Top stats

Top 100 Mhash/s | Top 10 Mhash/s Total: 22,058.79 | Total: 8,045.22 Mean rate: 220.59 | Mean rate: 804.52 Median rate: 126.62 | Median rate: 634.13 Mode(10) rate: 60 | Mode(100) rate: 500 % of pool: 89.5% | % of pool: 32.6% % of network: 42.9% | % of network: 15.6%

Pool voting

Mining (indicative, not authoritative!)

payoff per Mhash/s / day ideal solo 1gh nonce zhpool poolhub HVC 7.74661 7.75 8.93 6.91 4.70 mBTC 0.08754 0.09 0.10 0.08 0.05 USD 0.04297 0.04 0.05 0.04 0.03

| | | | | |

pool take/day 1gh nonce zhpool poolhub HVC 2,465.54 63.89 1,548.11 219.89 BTC 0.03 0.00 0.02 0.00 USD 13.68 0.35 8.59 1.22

Based on last 7 days performance and... block reward: HVC520 | mBTC/HVC: 0.0113 | USD/BTC: $490.9

[kqpahv]

Glad somebody else gets it.

Trust me...  most of us get it...  just make an effort to differentiate your valid concerns about the block rewards with all these fools that are dumping like crazy and then come here to tell us how low HVC/BTC rates are...    

lol first they dump, then they come here and say why the coin is dying, utterly stupid

Some of us are not living in fairy tale land or keep burrying their head under the sand like there isnt a problem. Keep holding then. At this rate it wont take long before I could single handedly perform a 51% attack on the coin with my medium sized farm not to mention that there are already tens of gpu farms out there that could perform a 51% attack this day and render your investment useless. Maybe then you will understand whats wrong 
No one trusts the current model so obviously no one is buying which translates to fewer and fewer miners which makes it even worse. I am gonna be honest that HVC is my favourite alt coin of all time but a huge flaw ruins it all. Maybe it needs to die and someone will get it right on the second try, would'nt be the first time this happened 

[Maestro1]

I'm getting out of HVC soon... Cashed out half of my stack in late March to invest in BC, cashing out the rest today. Optimism has a limit. I still wish all the best for HVC and may reinvest if things go well.

[mumbly]

There is a lot of uncertainty going on right now with the coin. Even in mumbly's post (couple above this) he is uncertain what is going on and he has worked with them to some degree (for whatever his post is worth).  The Devs aren't showing up and aren't communicating anything to us on a regular basis.  No one knows if they are taking time off, if they are currently working on something for the coin or whatnot.

Hey cayars,

You're 100% right man - at the time I posted this message I was feeling a little uncertain about what was happening but I hope I did convey that I've always found the coin devs to keep their word every time I have dealt with them.

For my communications with the devs, I just want to point out that they aren't reporting to me every day to say they are still working on the coin, we are having conversations about heavycoin design and there are days where there's simply nothing needed to be said (I know you aren't saying otherwise, I just feel like I should point this out).

"For whatever his post is worth" is exactly right - you don't know me and have no reason to trust me - but this does lead to the topic of Heavycoin community.

One point I would like to make is that we really need to let the coin devs do dev work - if they are hanging out here and chatting about the coin rather then working on it I think it would be a bigger problem - so, how do we let the devs focus on their job and still keep the community moving?

I've seen suggestions that the devs should hire a community manager - maybe they should, but what if we all figured out as a community what we want and take it from there?

I'm going to ask the guys to make a new thread for organising the community - I'm sorry, the announce thread just moves so fast I personally can't keep up with it.

I'm going to put my hand up to be involved in that thread if it does happen - I'd like you, cayars, to be involved. So far you have been very polite and logical in your conversations and not opposed to show dissent - If you are up for it you may be a very important voice to have involved in this type of conversation.

[cryptomines]

Community hub and workthread already exists, not much happening in any of the threads there.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=513949
 

[TheGer]

You're perfectly right, I don't.  I dumped mine awhile ago when I saw the writing on the wall.  When the Dev disappears and the one trick pony this coin had is dragging it down I am out.  And guess what?  I don't care that you're losing your shirt on this coin either.  Feel free to hold until it hits sub 1K sats and lower.  I'm not here to line your pocketbook I'm here to line mine, so thanks for buying up my coins at 4 times what the current value is.

Some people can't bear to face the reality that they are bag holders and will just hold and hold......... and hold.......until it evaporates to nothing.  Thank god for those people lol.

Since you folks DO NOT seem to GIVE A RAT'S ASS how your dumping is affecting HVC/BTC rates...  I would like to take the opportunity to express my deepest desire that all you dumpers get a chance to re-invest at MUCH HIGHER rates than your dumping rates!!!    

By the way...  spare us the fuckin' dumping announcements already...  SERIOUSLY!    

[Maestro1]

Since you folks DO NOT seem to GIVE A RAT'S ASS how your dumping is affecting HVC/BTC rates...  I would like to take the opportunity to express my deepest desire that all you dumpers get a chance to re-invest at MUCH HIGHER rates than your dumping rates!!!    

By the way...  spare us the fuckin' dumping announcements already...  SERIOUSLY!    

I didn't just go ahead and dump 500k like a jerk, eating every buy order on my way, I'm doing it slowly, at different trades, at different rates, and only when buy orders recover.

[cayars]

I'm going to put my hand up to be involved in that thread if it does happen - I'd like you, cayars, to be involved. So far you have been very polite and logical in your conversations and not opposed to show dissent - If you are up for it you may be a very important voice to have involved in this type of conversation.

I appreciate the thought on my behalf, but:
1) I'd doubt the devs would want me anywhere near that thread. I'm a thorn in their side right now and haven't been exactly kind to them the last 2 weeks.
2) I honestly wouldn't want to be involved (right now) unless we had a confirmation the devs are "at least" considering a change to the voting/timeline issues.  Otherwise I'd honestly just consider it a waste of time as I truly believe the main issue standing in the way of HVC being successful is the voting/timeline. Granted there are many cool things that could be done but this is a road block IMHO and nullifies any other ideas.

#2 above is also of concern to many others as you can read here in the forum.  I don't see any type of recovery possible without some type of change.

So if you could confirm with the devs there is at least an interest in having a civil conversation about the issues in #2 then I'd consider it. I'm open-minded if nothing else.

Carlo

[VanBreuk]

I started the HVC community hub workthread, which sadly didn't take off (neither most of the other HVC BCT threads) and even if in the last weeks I have become somewhat detached from the HVC project, I wanted to say I'm still checking on this community daily. And if there were new developments, I'd take care of updating the information in the community thread.

[gpools]

I think team work very bad . I'm exit .

[cayars]

Is gpools about to take a GIANT DUMP? 

[ibinsad]

I think team work very bad . I'm exit .

If you sell .. i'll buy !