[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[ptman]

Everyone of us would make a very big favour to the community if we went to the local language subforums and talked about Karma.

A lot of crypto people do not understand english very well and only comment on the local subforums.
And right now almost no one is commenting on the karma thread in the subforums.

Talk about the potentials of Karma.


             

[LiteMine]

Any news on the lill buyout? I skimmed the last 30 pages and didn't see anything

thank you!

[bitwho]

Kosmos&CO, I finished the migration of Bitpay Insight API into KARMA coin. The block explorer is fully functional with real-time updates via RPC. You can find it here: http://162.243.209.71:3000/

The next task is to rename BTC into KARM/KARMA in GUI. - should be easy

Most of people do not realize how important is Insight API, it is amazing wrapper on bitcoin wallet. It allows people to easily create web wallets and web services. With this API hosted on trusted server web developers can easily implement KARMA into their web pages without need to run own KARMA wallet. When I was searching how to port it, I realized there were many other alt coins trying to port it which failed. Insight API does not work for POW/POS or POS coins. Many POW coins tried and failed to implement it. Very few were successful.

Check https://github.com/bitpay/insight-api for more info.

I will write some JS code to test the API if it work with KARM well.

The next task is to run CoinPunk wallet: https://coinpunk.com/, it is awesome web wallet written in JavaScript, browser based. So anyone lazy to download and sync KARMA wallet can go to coinpunk server, create his JS wallet in seconds and use it thanks to Insight API.

I will take care of it later, when I do the tests with JavaScript transactions if they work correctly.

Great!
Can this be used to get distribution, rich list shares?

I am afraid not, as I mentioned before I start to work on it. Insight API explorer solves the problem of searching compared to old explorer. It does not solve the rich list. If we want Rich List, we should still go and pay those 0,25 BTC / year(It is way cheaper than to develop it by us).

Insight API is backbone for easy payment system implementation, Insight explorer is just cool explorer.   Anyway, my opinion is there are so many new web pages about alt coins created daily, sooner or later someone will take care about rich list feature and other stats.  Karma should work on increasing value than someone will come and create as many stats as you can imagine. If we give people easy tools how to play with KARM, they will create games, services anything they can imagine. Every non crypto service can be ported into crypto service. Lets make tools well documented, so even noob devs can use it. If people can embed KARM into web just by few rows of JS, lets work on it. Do not focus on creating all the services yourself, let common people to start their own KARMA business easily. Lets create plugins for wordpress and other CMS frameworks, so they can implement KARM by few clicks. The easier this process is, the more web devs you get. Every Web has visitors/customers. KARM can increase 100x value just by creating such easy to use web services.

There we have it!

more and more people should start getting involved to make Karma better.

Be inspired!

Join us if you think you can help with something.

The more united we work the faster and stronger we get.

[kosmost]

What are your thoughts on exchange pricing per 100 Karma?

I believe this would make each block currently worth about USD 0.001, which would give us some room for growth in price (with a price target of anywhere between 1 cent to 10 cents per Karma block in the next year or so).

This would, of course, in no way impact users wallets but may make it easier for users to purchase (from a psychological perspective) similar to how pre-paid phone cards or debit cards are re-charged in blocks of units (instead of individual units), You can't re-charge your phone with 1 minute worth of time but perhaps you could with 100 minutes' worth.

When you go to the grocery store to buy meat or fish, pricing may be per 100 grams. The grocery store owner knows that people will buy more when they think of buying multiples or fractions of 100 grams instead of multiples of 1 gram.

I think right now we are just doing what every other coin is doing and not really thinking of how we can be pioneers. Anything different is seen as a "trick". But how about the first grocery store that thought to price their perishables differently?

If change makes sense and has more upside than downside, then I say let's go for it. There will always be people who want to use their horses in an age of the "horseless carriage". But we are leaders, not followers.

Thank you for recognising the importance of this and giving it your support.

To me price per 1,000 is more logical than price per 100. To use your metaphor, fish is priced per kilogram not per 100 grams. The weight is measured in grams. All I'm suggesting is we price our fish in kilograms. You can still by 127 grams of fish even when it is priced in kilograms.

It is price per 1,000 Karma on exchanges, not per block of 1,000 Karma. The way I described it obviously needs work, I'll make one large post with everything tomorrow if I have time. You don't need to buy 1,000 Karma at a time, like how now you don't need to buy a whole 1 Karma at a time. You can buy 0.00000001 Karma at a time now. The change would make it so you could buy 0.00001 Karma at a time.

I have made an example transaction below that may better illustrate how the user would see the change:


On Mintpal all you need to do is type in the amount you want to buy and press buy. That won't change. You still want to buy the same amount, just type that same amount in the box. The current price will automatically be filled.

Chargin.

I completely agree with moving forward on this.

I was wondering if we should also consider how the sidechain is going to work and if these features/terminology need to mirror in any way. 

The sidechain's POW blocks would also be X11 (to merge-mine Karma), among other methods. We are talking now about this, so that I can finish the whitepaper which will explain it in a bit more detail.

Most likely, we won't detail too much so that we can maintain a competitive advantage (as developing and testing a sidechain would take a few months, possibly)

[kosmost]

What are your thoughts on exchange pricing per 100 Karma?

I believe this would make each block currently worth about USD 0.001, which would give us some room for growth in price (with a price target of anywhere between 1 cent to 10 cents per Karma block in the next year or so).

This would, of course, in no way impact users wallets but may make it easier for users to purchase (from a psychological perspective) similar to how pre-paid phone cards or debit cards are re-charged in blocks of units (instead of individual units), You can't re-charge your phone with 1 minute worth of time but perhaps you could with 100 minutes' worth.

When you go to the grocery store to buy meat or fish, pricing may be per 100 grams. The grocery store owner knows that people will buy more when they think of buying multiples or fractions of 100 grams instead of multiples of 1 gram.

I think right now we are just doing what every other coin is doing and not really thinking of how we can be pioneers. Anything different is seen as a "trick". But how about the first grocery store that thought to price their perishables differently?

If change makes sense and has more upside than downside, then I say let's go for it. There will always be people who want to use their horses in an age of the "horseless carriage". But we are leaders, not followers.

Thank you for recognising the importance of this and giving it your support.

To me price per 1,000 is more logical than price per 100. To use your metaphor, fish is priced per kilogram not per 100 grams. The weight is measured in grams. All I'm suggesting is we price our fish in kilograms. You can still by 127 grams of fish even when it is priced in kilograms.

It is price per 1,000 Karma on exchanges, not per block of 1,000 Karma. The way I described it obviously needs work, I'll make one large post with everything tomorrow if I have time. You don't need to buy 1,000 Karma at a time, like how now you don't need to buy a whole 1 Karma at a time. You can buy 0.00000001 Karma at a time now. The change would make it so you could buy 0.00001 Karma at a time.

I have made an example transaction below that may better illustrate how the user would see the change:


On Mintpal all you need to do is type in the amount you want to buy and press buy. That won't change. You still want to buy the same amount, just type that same amount in the box. The current price will automatically be filled.

Chargin.

Thanks for explaining this and making it more clear with the graphic. I suppose if I did my own grocery shopping then I would know how fish is priced lol

Can anyone provide a detailed reason not to implement this plan, other than "no more tricks, Irish!" or "just because"?

[bitwho]

why would mintpal do this ---^

[pac]

You are asking an exchange to make an adaption to their market’s. Are you going to ask all exchanges to do so? Asking one is tough by itself, asking all is even harder and it could even be a reason for exchanges not to add karma in the future. Not asking everyone could lead to confusion, people are idiots after all.

Price is steady at the 2 satoshi btc wall, the ltc markets are the ones that are moving. Btc only follows and offers an opportunity for big investors to by a large sum at once if they want to. With this move you could make the btc market the leading market again, but that can just as easily work against us. Almost no one is willing to sell at 2 satoshi, they might still try to bring the price down from let’s say 2100 to 1750.

No more tricks is imho a very good reason not to ask for this change. Behind this proposition lies no added value and investors, both current and future, could see this as a weak move.

How do I feel about this possible move? There is a high reward, a possibility for karma to get back to the volume figures on the btc market where we want to be. It’s not difficult for karma development, but we would need help/consent from our exchanges and that might pose some problems. I would say the likelihood of us getting more volume is low, and this move would most likely be viewed as weak, similar though not as bad as lowering our total numbers. I don’t see it doing much for us, good nor bad, but if I had to vote it would be a no.

[Kennet_h]

Thanks to socoban and ptman! 145k KARMA to each
Also a big thanks, to everyone else, that contribute to Karma!

Go KARMA! 

[ptman]

Thanks to socoban and ptman! 145k KARMA to each
Also a big thanks, to everyone else, that contribute to Karma!

Go KARMA!  

WOOWW!

THANKS!

I was starting to not believe in the tipping concept that much... UNTIL NOW!
Or believing that maybe I was just unlucky...lol


Because until today I was never tipped any cryptocurrency!
Despite the fact that I'm an active member of the Karma community from the very beginning.
And despite the fact I sent a large percentage (aound 30%) of the Karma I currently hold to the fundraisers and to other members as tips.

[Kennet_h]

@ptman. No problem mate!  

I think pricing karma in thousands, on the exchanges, is a good idea.
But i think it will be difficult, to get the exchanges to implement it.
I have been wondering for a long time, why the exchanges haven't done that, insted of trading it for LTC ect.

i think the exchanges either will put all the single digit satoshi coins, in price per thousand, or none of them.

[Alphi]

Can anyone provide a detailed reason not to implement this plan, other than "no more tricks, Irish!" or "just because"?

1) it will have little to no effect on volume.
2) it creates fractions which cannot be sold easily. having a coin that can be broken down to 8 decimal places but can only be traded in lots of 1000 is a contradiction.
   EDIT: I understand that the pricing is in 1000 lots and it wont be mandatory but I still believe that by pricing it this way it will have a similar effect because if you list the BUYS with 1000 unit pricing you also have to list the SELLS with 1000 unit pricing.
 e.g. someone wants to sell 99 karma how do they do that? if they type 99 they might end up selling 99,000 Karma. so they have to type 0.0099 to sell 99 Karma?

3) inconsistent market pricing creates buyer confusion.
4) it sends a message to the market that despite all the talk about building real value for Karma.. the primary focus is trying to use smoke and mirrors to suck in more buyers.
5) coin developers who tell exchanges how they should conduct their business are likely to not be welcomed with open arms.

to sum up.. I am not against the plan.. I just think it is pointless and a waste of time and energy.

[kosmost]

Dear Karma Team or anyone who would like to be on the team;

Please help by making a simple post to our subreddit explaining that our block explorer is down and that we are working to bring a new one online.

I asked for this a couple of days ago but I suppose none of us had the time or interest to do it, so any help is appreciated.

(I can't be the only one that sees the need for this, am I?)

Can someone please step up to the plate?

[kosmost]

Can anyone provide a detailed reason not to implement this plan, other than "no more tricks, Irish!" or "just because"?

1) it will have little to no effect on volume.
2) it creates fractions which cannot be sold easily. having a coin that can be broken down to 8 decimal places but can only be traded in lots of 1000 is a contradiction.
   EDIT: I understand that the pricing is in 1000 lots and it wont be mandatory but I still believe that by pricing it this way it will have a similar effect because if you list the BUYS with 1000 unit pricing you also have to list the SELLS with 1000 unit pricing.

3) inconsistent market pricing creates buyer confusion.
4) it sends a message to the market that despite all the talk about building real value for Karma.. the primary focus is trying to use smoke and mirrors to suck in more buyers.
5) coin developers who tell exchanges how they should conduct their business are likely to not be welcomed with open arms.

to sum up.. I am not against the plan.. I just think it is pointless and a waste of time and energy.

How would you like to help us with #4?

Our #1 priority now is finding our market, imo: http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/2cg8kg/we_need_help_with_some_research_and_information/

[Alphi]

How would you like to help us with #4?

Our #1 priority now is finding our market, imo: http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/2cg8kg/we_need_help_with_some_research_and_information/

I have put out countless ideas over the past few months... I am not a web developer so I'm kind of stuck with the web side of things..
since nobody else was really interested I guess I will just have to try to implement some of them myself.

but don't wait for me Argentina, the truth is I never left you... lol....but I really don't have the funds to work on my own projects atm so it could be many months before I can bring something to the table.

I just post my ideas so that other people can use them.. but if they don't want to then I will get around to it eventually.

[clayop]

Changing the unit of price could confuse the market- the simpler the better. Rather we should focus on how to improve the value of the Karma.
When the market  price goes up to the DOGE level, liquidity problem will be naturally solved.

[ptman]

Dear Karma Team or anyone who would like to be on the team;

Please help by making a simple post to our subreddit explaining that our block explorer is down and that we are working to bring a new one online.

I asked for this a couple of days ago but I suppose none of us had the time or interest to do it, so any help is appreciated.

(I can't be the only one that sees the need for this, am I?)

Can someone please step up to the plate?

I was going to do it but warfwarf did it first

[KarmaTeam]

New P2P pool added to the OP   \o/


Here is their ANN thread.  

Please support our p2p pools!

Ps:As per the new ANN rules. Pool owners can not post their pools in regular thread. They have to PM us to be added.

-Who

[Chargin]

You are asking an exchange to make an adaption to their market’s. Are you going to ask all exchanges to do so? Asking one is tough by itself, asking all is even harder and it could even be a reason for exchanges not to add karma in the future. Not asking everyone could lead to confusion, people are idiots after all.

Price is steady at the 2 satoshi btc wall, the ltc markets are the ones that are moving. Btc only follows and offers an opportunity for big investors to by a large sum at once if they want to. With this move you could make the btc market the leading market again, but that can just as easily work against us. Almost no one is willing to sell at 2 satoshi, they might still try to bring the price down from let’s say 2100 to 1750.

No more tricks is imho a very good reason not to ask for this change. Behind this proposition lies no added value and investors, both current and future, could see this as a weak move.

How do I feel about this possible move? There is a high reward, a possibility for karma to get back to the volume figures on the btc market where we want to be. It’s not difficult for karma development, but we would need help/consent from our exchanges and that might pose some problems. I would say the likelihood of us getting more volume is low, and this move would most likely be viewed as weak, similar though not as bad as lowering our total numbers. I don’t see it doing much for us, good nor bad, but if I had to vote it would be a no.

I suggest it would be the standard request that goes with a new coin listing. We can not and would not make it mandatory in any way, just recommended to increase volume.

If changes and other announcements are not made I predict that 2 Satoshi "wall" will be gone by the end of next week if not sooner. Making this change is unlikely to stop that, that isn't the purpose of this change. It will help the price recover because it will stop a sell wall forming at exactly 2 Satoshi.

This is a strong move because it is bold not weak. Weak is not implementing a change because you can't predict what it will do. We can't hide behind flimsy walls for ever in the vague hope that they won't fall.

Can anyone provide a detailed reason not to implement this plan, other than "no more tricks, Irish!" or "just because"?

1) it will have little to no effect on volume.
2) it creates fractions which cannot be sold easily. having a coin that can be broken down to 8 decimal places but can only be traded in lots of 1000 is a contradiction.
   EDIT: I understand that the pricing is in 1000 lots and it wont be mandatory but I still believe that by pricing it this way it will have a similar effect because if you list the BUYS with 1000 unit pricing you also have to list the SELLS with 1000 unit pricing.
 e.g. someone wants to sell 99 karma how do they do that? if they type 99 they might end up selling 99,000 Karma. so they have to type 0.0099 to sell 99 Karma?

3) inconsistent market pricing creates buyer confusion.
4) it sends a message to the market that despite all the talk about building real value for Karma.. the primary focus is trying to use smoke and mirrors to suck in more buyers.
5) coin developers who tell exchanges how they should conduct their business are likely to not be welcomed with open arms.

to sum up.. I am not against the plan.. I just think it is pointless and a waste of time and energy.

1. No impact on volume is ok. I think it will more likely increase volume, there are people that trade exclusively in the Bitcoin market. When the price is stuck between two points there is less volume, even in the LTC market because they know their gains have a glass ceiling.
2. If you type in 99 you will only sell 99. Please have a look at the graphic and the sentence just under it.
3/4. It isn't that confusing when you look at how it would work on an exchange. It is building real value for Karma because currently Karma's major use IS trading on exchanges, anything that can be done to increase the ability for this to occur is beneficial. There are probably people that hold KARM that don't even know it is really called Karma.
5. A consumer is making a mutually beneficial request to a business. I don't think they will mind too much.

It is never a waste of time and energy discussing something as important as this. I will be able to move onto the things I think are the second and third most important things for Karma's future once this is progressing.

I have only quoted the comments I have disagreed with, as far as I can tell more people are in favour of the change than there are people that disagree with it. I have already made too much of an argument for it for people to really write more thoughts in favour of it.

Chargin.

[easteagle13]

This may have some effect.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/karmacoin/?fref=nf

[kosmost]

Changing the unit of price could confuse the market- the simpler the better. Rather we should focus on how to improve the value of the Karma.
When the market  price goes up to the DOGE level, liquidity problem will be naturally solved.

Let's illustrate the conundrum a bit:

A) talking about something fundamentally important like some simple market research to help find out who our core market might be: no more than 3 responses, mostly ignored, since March 2014 (all within past few days since I have been highlighting the absolute necessity)

B) talking about an idea that has been detailed regarding talking to exchanges about the viability of moving the decimal place that may not even be implemented: 20+ responses over the course of a couple of weeks

Sure.. some people say things like, "let's focus on adding value, instead" but who is actually doing this? How do we even begin to:

1) integrate Karma into Lill or any other site
2) design and develop a mobile wallet
3) do anything else relating to actual users

..when we have conducted no market research and have barely read and discussed anything related to previous market research? No business would function this way and be successful. We have to know where our market is first and foremost.

We do not presently understand 1) the need to conduct market research; 2) how to Google or Lill, "how to conduct market research". We spend far too much time discussing things that, in the end, won't really matter.

About the only thing it doesn't effect is an API, which we have been trying to satisfy in various ways (and may be taken care of somewhat by the new block explorer).

How do we solve this conundrum ASAP?