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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4245688 times)
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December 05, 2017, 10:26:36 PM
 #37201

You know I think we should talk about the community being open to changes to the cryptographic hashing algorithm. It's not cryptonight specifically that we are wedded to but the opposition to application specific hardware in mining.

How do you guys feel about a hard fork away from cryptonight and into something different if A) a good new hashing algorithm presents its self and B) asics begin to be deployed at scale for mining cryptonight based cryptocurrencies? The advantages are twofold. One, we will be building community consensus around the idea that the hashing algorithm is a flexible thing and so avoid being forced to face the prospect of a bitcoin cash type situation. But also the acknowledgement of this consensus within our community will help to discourage the development of cryptonight hashing ASICS.

Thoughts?
I think I read a Monero update or something that said the devs are investigating that.

I’m pretty sure Surae and the MRL gang is on the case. I remember at the NY meetup him basically talking about (I’m paraphrasing here) how he inherently doesn’t trust the algorithm because it was created by the bytecoin devs.

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December 05, 2017, 10:48:16 PM
 #37202

Fees are becoming onerous again.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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December 05, 2017, 10:53:28 PM
 #37203

You know I think we should talk about the community being open to changes to the cryptographic hashing algorithm. It's not cryptonight specifically that we are wedded to but the opposition to application specific hardware in mining.

How do you guys feel about a hard fork away from cryptonight and into something different if A) a good new hashing algorithm presents its self and B) asics begin to be deployed at scale for mining cryptonight based cryptocurrencies? The advantages are twofold. One, we will be building community consensus around the idea that the hashing algorithm is a flexible thing and so avoid being forced to face the prospect of a bitcoin cash type situation. But also the acknowledgement of this consensus within our community will help to discourage the development of cryptonight hashing ASICS.

Thoughts?

Ready to fork off as required.  I'm here for the Monero Project, not cryptonight.  The Team has done an outstanding job thus far, proving themselves to be the best in the field, attracting more of the same to the snowball.  When they say it's time to upgrade, we upgrade.  I expect there will be minimal fuss (from those not developing ASICs)
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December 05, 2017, 10:59:28 PM
 #37204

Fees are becoming onerous again.

There may be a few uncomfortable months as price rockets, until all the fancy tx size reducing code is thoroughly reviewed.  Then an axe will be taken to the fees with the next hardfork.  I love how fast the team has dug in to test and implement improvements.  Only in Monero.   Would have been nice to precede Coralreef, but I certainly can't complain about speed of development (anymore).  Rock On, Monero!
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December 05, 2017, 11:19:18 PM
 #37205

Fees are becoming onerous again.

until all the fancy tx size reducing code is thoroughly reviewed.  Then an axe will be taken to the fees with the next hardfork.

Are you speaking of mimblewimble?

Ready to fork off as required.  I'm here for the Monero Project, not cryptonight.  The Team has done an outstanding job thus far, proving themselves to be the best in the field, attracting more of the same to the snowball.  When they say it's time to upgrade, we upgrade.  I expect there will be minimal fuss (from those not developing ASICs)

Good good. This is just the sort of sentiment that will make it worth nobodies time to ever even try to produce cryptonight asics.

I think I read a Monero update or something that said the devs are investigating that.

I’m pretty sure Surae and the MRL gang is on the case. I remember at the NY meetup him basically talking about (I’m paraphrasing here) how he inherently doesn’t trust the algorithm because it was created by the bytecoin devs.

Awesome. Good to know.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
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December 05, 2017, 11:34:57 PM
 #37206

what timeline are we looking at for changing mining algo?
let me break even first, please...

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December 05, 2017, 11:53:09 PM
 #37207

Fees are becoming onerous again.

until all the fancy tx size reducing code is thoroughly reviewed.  Then an axe will be taken to the fees with the next hardfork.

Are you speaking of mimblewimble?



Bullet Proofs, and other tasty treats. Reducing Tx size by an order of magnitude will confer the same on Tx cost.
 I love how all this stuff is proposed for bitcoin, and the Team says, Oh good, we can use that!  While everyone else sits on their thumbs, or waves their hands.  Or one of each, IDFK.
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December 05, 2017, 11:55:45 PM
 #37208

what timeline are we looking at for changing mining algo?
let me break even first, please...

Shouldn't make much difference for the miner or end user.  Upgrade software, and carry on as if you were normal.  Unless ASICs had already made inroads, in which case CPU/GPU miners would get a boost as the hash rate drops instantly.
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December 06, 2017, 12:06:12 AM
 #37209

what timeline are we looking at for changing mining algo?
let me break even first, please...

Shouldn't make much difference for the miner or end user.  Upgrade software, and carry on as if you were normal.  Unless ASICs had already made inroads, in which case CPU/GPU miners would get a boost as the hash rate drops instantly.
is there any reason to believe that there are already ASICs hashing away cryptonote?
about timeline, is this only an idea right now or is it planned already?

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December 06, 2017, 12:13:45 AM
 #37210

what timeline are we looking at for changing mining algo?
let me break even first, please...

Shouldn't make much difference for the miner or end user.  Upgrade software, and carry on as if you were normal.  Unless ASICs had already made inroads, in which case CPU/GPU miners would get a boost as the hash rate drops instantly.
is there any reason to believe that there are already ASICs hashing away cryptonote?
about timeline, is this only an idea right now or is it planned already?

If there are, they are running at a loss.  They are not cheap to develop/produce, so there needs to be a strong case for increased hashing speed/scale to be profitable.  Network rate would show any such increase, and existing miners would be bitching left and right about how it's no longer profitable to mine Monero.  So far, so good.
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December 06, 2017, 12:19:57 AM
 #37211

what timeline are we looking at for changing mining algo?
let me break even first, please...

Shouldn't make much difference for the miner or end user.  Upgrade software, and carry on as if you were normal.  Unless ASICs had already made inroads, in which case CPU/GPU miners would get a boost as the hash rate drops instantly.
is there any reason to believe that there are already ASICs hashing away cryptonote?
about timeline, is this only an idea right now or is it planned already?

If there are, they are running at a loss.  They are not cheap to develop/produce, so there needs to be a strong case for increased hashing speed/scale to be profitable.  Network rate would show any such increase, and existing miners would be bitching left and right about how it's no longer profitable to mine Monero.  So far, so good.
maybe it would still be a good idea to change PoW (not affecting GPU and CPU mining) just to scare away people even thinking about developping an ASIC. I'm pretty sure there will be one in developtment, if it isnt already stealthily hashing away..
do you know if there are any specific plans already in dev team to do that?

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December 06, 2017, 12:29:52 AM
 #37212

what timeline are we looking at for changing mining algo?
let me break even first, please...

Shouldn't make much difference for the miner or end user.  Upgrade software, and carry on as if you were normal.  Unless ASICs had already made inroads, in which case CPU/GPU miners would get a boost as the hash rate drops instantly.
is there any reason to believe that there are already ASICs hashing away cryptonote?
about timeline, is this only an idea right now or is it planned already?

If there are, they are running at a loss.  They are not cheap to develop/produce, so there needs to be a strong case for increased hashing speed/scale to be profitable.  Network rate would show any such increase, and existing miners would be bitching left and right about how it's no longer profitable to mine Monero.  So far, so good.
maybe it would still be a good idea to change PoW (not affecting GPU and CPU mining) just to scare away people even thinking about developping an ASIC. I'm pretty sure there will be one in developtment, if it isnt already stealthily hashing away..
do you know if there are any specific plans already in dev team to do that?

Cryptonight is specifically ASIC resistant.  Meaning current ASIC's technology can't do much better than CPU/GPU.  SHOULD that change in future, changes will be made to defeat them.  Yes, it is already being investigated.  Just read a few posts above.
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December 06, 2017, 01:12:00 AM
 #37213

what happen to xmr ,it's already double those days
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December 06, 2017, 01:24:45 AM
 #37214

How many thread do this coin need?
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December 06, 2017, 01:29:55 AM
 #37215

While everyone else sits on their thumbs, or waves their hands.  Or one of each, IDFK.
Or they sit on their thumbs and wave their hands simultaneously, thus inserting thumbs where the sun don't shine.
Also, there's twiddling.  You didn't mention that.
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December 06, 2017, 02:13:07 AM
 #37216

You know I think we should talk about the community being open to changes to the cryptographic hashing algorithm. It's not cryptonight specifically that we are wedded to but the opposition to application specific hardware in mining.

How do you guys feel about a hard fork away from cryptonight and into something different if A) a good new hashing algorithm presents its self and B) asics begin to be deployed at scale for mining cryptonight based cryptocurrencies? The advantages are twofold. One, we will be building community consensus around the idea that the hashing algorithm is a flexible thing and so avoid being forced to face the prospect of a bitcoin cash type situation. But also the acknowledgement of this consensus within our community will help to discourage the development of cryptonight hashing ASICS.

Thoughts?

Well eventually we are going to have to goto a quantum resistant POW (or POW replacement?)  But I'm not seeing any reason to rush ATM, not as long as we remain ASIC resistant. That also begs the question how do we know when there is an asic? We blame alot of hash on botnets but we cannot verify it's not asic afaik. Also as I stated years ago we should not change until there is a asic because that will show those that develop i that they wasted their time and effort. We should have a backup just in case though ready to go.

I'd also like to see a paper I can comprehend on ZK-Starks but thats another discussion and hopefully NobleSir will write something for us plebs after he digests it. Lol

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December 06, 2017, 02:15:56 AM
 #37217

Fees are becoming onerous again.

until all the fancy tx size reducing code is thoroughly reviewed.  Then an axe will be taken to the fees with the next hardfork.

Are you speaking of mimblewimble?



Bullet Proofs, and other tasty treats. Reducing Tx size by an order of magnitude will confer the same on Tx cost.
 I love how all this stuff is proposed for bitcoin, and the Team says, Oh good, we can use that!  While everyone else sits on their thumbs, or waves their hands.  Or one of each, IDFK.

IKR? I heard FP talking about mimblewimble so I went and did a little research on it. Turns out the thing that is preventing them from implementing it on bitcoin (besides endless governance problems) is that you cant do any sort of on chain scripting with it. But monero doesn't try to be anything other than a currency so its a perfect fit. My crypto investment strategy has been to focus on projects that may be able to address the shortcomings of bitcoin. Namely the lack of scalability, fungibility and privacy. I took a big position in monero because it deals with the latter two but its starting to look like it might also be one of the best bets for scalability too!

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
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December 06, 2017, 02:19:22 AM
 #37218

That also begs the question how do we know when there is an asic? We blame alot of hash on botnets but we cannot verify it's not asic afaik.

Well now that is a pickle isn't it. Hopefully by the time their use became too rampant physical evidence of their existence would surface. Or if even the highest profit margin cards became grossly unprofitable even with free or very cheap energy inputs, that might be some evidence. I don't think botnet mining would be able to account for that.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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December 06, 2017, 02:28:46 AM
 #37219

lol first of all who needs such shit currency where transactions is untraceable unless your a murderer or selling bad drugs
This coin is another shit coin which people are just buying for the heck of new algo  which does not serve a good purpose
common think again how many will use such currency 0.00001% criminals who want to be hidden in their dungeon nobody needs such scam technology shit coin.
BLACK LISTED MONERO

Future Machine
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December 06, 2017, 02:30:49 AM
 #37220

lol first of all who needs such shit currency where transactions is untraceable unless your a murderer or selling bad drugs
This coin is another shit coin which people are just buying for the heck of new algo  which does not serve a good purpose
common think again how many will use such currency 0.00001% criminals who want to be hidden in their dungeon nobody needs such scam technology shit coin.
BLACK LISTED MONERO

Wow. Tell us how you really feel! Cheesy

Anyhow, off to ignore ya go buddy. You seem a bit angry, did you lose a lot of money selling low or something?

Cheers, Idiot loser! Cheesy

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