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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4232811 times)
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January 04, 2018, 01:35:26 AM
 #37521

Quote
Quote
Because it uses a more complex consensus algorithm than the Nakamoto longest-chain consensus method, there is a lot of testing and analysis that needs to be done. The benefits, however, are intriguing: an implementation could increase the block rate substantially without compromising the security of the network.

I See compromising security written all over that quote I placed above. I'm starting to think this project needs a chief Security Officer. These are the exact actions that a three letter agency would be doing to place compromised positions in the codebase.

I (also) see compromising security in "a more complex consensus algorithm". A Chief Security Officer is not really the solution. How do you know such a person isn't compromised, or such a hire used to inject a rat into the project. The best approach IMO is to continue with transparency and wide participation. It is also easier for 3 letter orgs to turn devs if they are known, and anyone that thinks anyone let alone a basic programmer cannot get turned is delusional.


Actually I was thinking the Devs would get together and nominate one of their own, But the easiest way to get a rat in the system is to have had it there for a period of time contributing and as it gains trust it's pushes get merged with much less scrutiny and then it can slip in a exploit that can then be used to make the entire chain transparent and that of course would completely destroy this project.

Quote
Quote
I would also like to know why we should care about ZK-Snarks when ZK-Starks which from what I understand is already Trustless is available.

ZK-Starks are resource-impractical at this time. Something like a megabyte per transaction.

All of these are directions to explore for the future.

Thanks, the math is so far beyond me I haven't even tried to research these methods other than broad explanations.



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January 04, 2018, 01:46:53 AM
 #37522


Actually I was thinking the Devs would get together and nominate one of their own, But the easiest way to get a rat in the system is to have had it there for a period of time contributing and as it gains trust it's pushes get merged with much less scrutiny and then it can slip in a exploit that can then be used to make the entire chain transparent and that of course would completely destroy this project.


OMG a fluffymole  Shocked



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January 04, 2018, 02:39:15 AM
 #37523

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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January 04, 2018, 03:31:10 AM
 #37524

I just noticed something very not good at the latest Monero Observer.  In the "Guides" section there's an entry US Lifed posted an article discussing the top 3 best Monero wallets for 2018.
The linked article lists Free Wallet as best mobile wallet!  PLEASE delete this listing from the Monero Observer.

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.
Even better:  build a decentralized app where participants pool or aggregate their transactions in order to reap the benefits of log scaling.  So your tx would get propagated right away, and your fee would be negligibly small (with enough participants).
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January 04, 2018, 05:13:49 AM
 #37525

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.
Even better:  build a decentralized app where participants pool or aggregate their transactions in order to reap the benefits of log scaling.  So your tx would get propagated right away, and your fee would be negligibly small (with enough participants).

It would be cool if possible to do this in a way that is secure and retains privacy but it isn't clear that this is possible. Any super smart guys who wanna chime in on the potential viability of such a thing would be welcomed.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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January 04, 2018, 11:03:42 AM
 #37526

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Note that queuing is more difficult in Monero as change outputs are locked for 10 blocks. You could, however, queue some transactions if you have multiple inputs. 

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
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January 04, 2018, 01:13:31 PM
 #37527

Do the inputs all have to come from the a single wallet?
And does monero-wallet-cli or the monero gui have an option for sending multiple outputs, like the pay-to-many function in electrum?
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January 04, 2018, 03:12:12 PM
 #37528

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Note that queuing is more difficult in Monero as change outputs are locked for 10 blocks. You could, however, queue some transactions if you have multiple inputs.  

I only mean saving the intention of making the transaction for later. It really would be sort of an aesthetic thing. Not very different from having a todo list in a text file and adding addresses and amounts to it to save for combining later. I'm just imagining that it saves the address that you want to send to and the amount that you want to send and then adds those, with your permission, as outputs on your next pertinent transaction.

You might say that it isn't really the job of the monero core team to code something that could be done with a text file in another window. But, if people were provided a nice little convenient tool for doing this, it would have the effect of explaining to everyone that this is a good practice and help the network scale more since more people would naturally engage in this good practice more often.

Or am I missing something? Is it actually difficult to produce a transaction with say 1 input and 5 outputs?

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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January 04, 2018, 03:21:30 PM
 #37529

Monero, the least moving of the big coins, will you make a pump in the near future?

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January 04, 2018, 03:36:37 PM
 #37530

Monero, the least moving of the big coins, will you make a pump in the near future?

Here you go https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252 ask over there.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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January 04, 2018, 05:34:43 PM
 #37531

Do the inputs all have to come from the a single wallet?
And does monero-wallet-cli or the monero gui have an option for sending multiple outputs, like the pay-to-many function in electrum?

Yes, you can't use inputs from different wallets.

The CLI allows this, i.e., you can send to multiple recipients in the same transaction. Type "help" to see the specific instructions.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
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January 04, 2018, 05:36:44 PM
 #37532

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Note that queuing is more difficult in Monero as change outputs are locked for 10 blocks. You could, however, queue some transactions if you have multiple inputs. 

XRY is the real monero Wink lol

===>

https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Exchange?market=XRY_DOGE

I am not a Financial Analyst, Investment Broker, Financial Adviser, Crypto-Guru or any sort of professional that would be deemed trustworthy! Wink weee™
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January 04, 2018, 05:39:15 PM
 #37533

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Note that queuing is more difficult in Monero as change outputs are locked for 10 blocks. You could, however, queue some transactions if you have multiple inputs.  

I only mean saving the intention of making the transaction for later. It really would be sort of an aesthetic thing. Not very different from having a todo list in a text file and adding addresses and amounts to it to save for combining later. I'm just imagining that it saves the address that you want to send to and the amount that you want to send and then adds those, with your permission, as outputs on your next pertinent transaction.

You might say that it isn't really the job of the monero core team to code something that could be done with a text file in another window. But, if people were provided a nice little convenient tool for doing this, it would have the effect of explaining to everyone that this is a good practice and help the network scale more since more people would naturally engage in this good practice more often.


Ok, I get the idea. I think something like this can and will be implemented (there's been some talk in a similar fashion with respect to churning, hence). However, it might take some time before it'd be implemented, because it will probably not be high on the priority list.

Quote
Or am I missing something? Is it actually difficult to produce a transaction with say 1 input and 5 outputs?

That's actually possible currently. See my other post here.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
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January 04, 2018, 07:10:57 PM
 #37534

Monero, the least moving of the big coins, will you make a pump in the near future?

Highly doubtful. It's too expensive right now for mass adoption. There are other privacy coins that are a better value.

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January 05, 2018, 07:13:23 AM
 #37535

I just noticed something very not good at the latest Monero Observer.  In the "Guides" section there's an entry US Lifed posted an article discussing the top 3 best Monero wallets for 2018.
The linked article lists Free Wallet as best mobile wallet!  PLEASE delete this listing from the Monero Observer.

I've messaged him a few times on errors and he's ignored me. I even offered to proof but no reply. I don't believe anything he writes, he does not fact check.

I got a response from why Coinbase didn't allow me to cash to fiat when  BTC was 17k. Fuck them.

Quote
Thank you for contacting Coinbase Support,

As a FinCEN certified Money Service Business, we are periodically required to Identify users on our platform.

Please take a moment to upload a copy of your ID to https://www.coinbase.com/verifications/documents to continue with our services.

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[]
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January 05, 2018, 09:11:30 AM
 #37536

Flashback to 1975

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7o5dr5/surveillance_gold_efts_and_how_to_prevent_it_with/
Globb0
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Fly me to the moon


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January 05, 2018, 04:37:56 PM
 #37537

Saw this elsewhere


https://twitter.com/CoinTrendz/status/949294446763536384

Quite sad how we are always the bridesmaid just out of the picture.

Flipping crappy scam coins still surviving so looooonnnngg.

I hope we can become a swan soon, its so well deserved for so much hard work that has gone into the project.


*edit* and maybe I am becoming more gullible, there is actually no evidence of how this search was conducted or what it included I suppose

Intergalactic planetary
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January 05, 2018, 09:20:33 PM
 #37538

I wonder if the Facebook bot-herders are hodling? Grin

http://bitcoinafrica.io/2018/01/05/digmine-monero-miner-spreading-through-facebook-messenger/

Quote from: Angeline Mbogo
What is Digmine?

Digmine is a botnet that mines monero and spreads through the desktop Chrome version of Facebook Messenger. When opened on other platforms such as mobile, the malware does not operate as it is meant to. Digmine has been discovered in countries such as South Korea, Philippines, and Thailand.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
iCEBREAKER
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January 05, 2018, 09:46:35 PM
 #37539

This makes sense to me.  Hilarious if true!

https://twitter.com/0x00C0FFEE/status/949395779768279042

Quote from: Fer Enaf @0x00C0FFEE
Possible "workaround" for #spectre on @AMD. Run a CPU #Monero miner, low priority, using all cache, and the Proof of Concept misses all bytes. Works on my A8-7410, my Xeon E3-1245 fails. More testers?


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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January 05, 2018, 10:13:13 PM
 #37540

Since the beginning of November MONERO has grown more five times. It's just impressive. And even now I think MONERO has still a good potential of growth in 2018 year. Now all the money goes almost to the top of Alta.

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