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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4245688 times)
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January 01, 2018, 08:17:13 PM
 #37501

how does monero compare to deep onion in terms of pros and cons?
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January 01, 2018, 08:18:52 PM
 #37502

Is there a way we can agree to delay the fork for it to be fully ready


Higher for the hardcore
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January 01, 2018, 09:04:13 PM
 #37503

Is there a way we can agree to delay the fork for it to be fully ready



OR a second release closer to (delayed as required) protocol upgrade season.  Importance of BP at this juncture is huge.  No telling what the space will look like in a few months, but waiting longer for the spring upgrade would be preferable to waiting all the way until the fall upgrade, should BP have insufficient testing in the near term.  Biggest question, I guess, is how much lead do we need for software implementation before the network shift.  For individuals, it is the work of a couple minutes.  Some pools and exchanges are slow to begin with though, and the massive load they are all under currently isn't likely to improve things.  OTOH, nothing like necessity as a spur to action.  And may they all reduce fees at the same time!
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January 01, 2018, 09:08:30 PM
 #37504

how does monero compare to deep onion in terms of pros and cons?

It doesn't.  Read back a few pages, this question is answered several times per week.  Monero is fair, secure, private and fungible.  It is not a bitcoin clone with lipstick.  Monero is alone in this category.
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January 01, 2018, 10:25:19 PM
 #37505

how does monero compare to deep onion in terms of pros and cons?

Monero has an opaque block-chain. Deeponion masks IP traffic. Which you can also do with monero anyway by downloading the necissary dependancies and running it like this

Code:
DNS_PUBLIC=tcp TORSOCKS_ALLOW_INBOUND=1 torsocks monerod --p2p-bind-ip 127.0.0.1 --no-igd

But even that is just a temporary stopgap measure. Kovri, our own network level privacy tool has its development fully funded and is actively being worked on here. https://github.com/monero-project/kovri

Monero is the real deal. It was what you were probably actually looking for when you found your way to deeponion.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
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January 01, 2018, 10:26:30 PM
 #37506

Hi there,

I'm putting together an evaluation matrix of all notable Anonymous/Private cryptocurrencies, and could use your help clarifyiing Monero.    Feedback including reference to something official (website, whitepaper etc) or Dev comments (or devs themselves) would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2669844.0


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January 02, 2018, 12:38:17 AM
 #37507



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January 02, 2018, 11:44:57 PM
 #37508

Coinsquare.io  is adding Monero.  A Canadian fiat pairing. Finally. (GBP, Euro, USD, Au & Ag as well, looks like)

https://www.help.coinsquare.io/knowledgebase/supported-currencies/

Trading fees look to be in line with the usual suspects, plus an OTC facilitation.

Add:

Fiat withdrawal fees are high.  Even with their 'Diamond service' ($100k + executions) the fees are more than 2.5x what bitstamp charges, and QuadrigaCX is free.

  Not sure paying them up to $1000's (0.25% - 0.5%) to send me a wire transfer is as good a deal as they claim, especially if you're going to take a hit on slippage just to get that fiat  Undecided

Bitstamp needs to add Monero already.
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January 03, 2018, 04:23:04 AM
 #37509

Hi there,

I'm putting together an evaluation matrix of all notable Anonymous/Private cryptocurrencies, and could use your help clarifyiing Monero.    Feedback including reference to something official (website, whitepaper etc) or Dev comments (or devs themselves) would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2669844.0




Don't take anyone's word, especially Random Devs or fanbois of any camp, verify everything from the reference links. And if there is no proof then it doesn't exist. I would add a column for scammy starts like hidden premines, instamine, ninjamines or whatever else they are calling them now.

I don't like the Security column at all, POW is the most secure period and your chart makes it look like the others have added security which is false. AFA Quantum resistance there is no algorithms that can be proven to be secure from QC. It should be assumed all current crypto will be broken with a large enough Q-bit system. anyway thats my take on your chart from a cursory glance.




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January 03, 2018, 05:24:06 AM
 #37510

Sarang Noether Provides Decemeber Update On Monero

https://www.cryptocurrencyfreak.com/2017/12/29/sarang-noether-provides-decemeber-update-monero/


The latest update from Sarang Noether is out and its full of interesting information on Bulletproofs, Multisig and discusses whether or not zk-SNARKs would benefit Monero. Read the entire post below or at the Monero forums.

Hello there! Sarang Noether here with my monthly report for December. I’m pleased to report good progress on several important projects, and want to start by thanking the Monero community for your support.

The primary task this month has been a continuation of Bulletproofs. As you’ve probably read elsewhere (like this blog post), range proofs are an important component of Monero’s confidential transactions that allow us to keep amounts secret. Bulletproofs are a replacement for our existing range proofs that used Borromean ring signatures and took up a substantial amount of space on the blockchain. I used the recent Bulletproof white paper to work up Java code, perform testing on correctness and efficiency, and work with moneromooo to get the test code ported for eventual inclusion into the Monero codebase. Single-output Bulletproofs are currently undergoing testing on testnet and will be included in a future release when ready. Multi-output Bulletproofs, which offer even more space savings that scale to larger transactions, are being tested separately since they necessitate a change to the way we handle fee scaling in order to avoid denial-of-service attacks from transaction packing. Releasing Bulletproofs in stages will provide an immediate reduction in transaction size and continue to offer further benefits once the rollout is complete.........






Thanks a Ton, Reading now but got to this and it makes me quite concerned.

Quote
SPECTRE’s underlying model falls into the category of partial synchronous networks: its
security  depends  on  the  existence  of  some  bound  on  the  delivery  time  of  messages  between honest participants

I don't like anything that is not trustless nor do I trust encapsulated Israeli security researchers.

Sarang seems to talk pretty fast and loose about changing underlying protocols with off the comments like this.

I wouldn't read too much into exploratory research.

Quote
Quote
Because it uses a more complex consensus algorithm than the Nakamoto longest-chain consensus method, there is a lot of testing and analysis that needs to be done. The benefits, however, are intriguing: an implementation could increase the block rate substantially without compromising the security of the network.

I See compromising security written all over that quote I placed above. I'm starting to think this project needs a chief Security Officer. These are the exact actions that a three letter agency would be doing to place compromised positions in the codebase.

I (also) see compromising security in "a more complex consensus algorithm". A Chief Security Officer is not really the solution. How do you know such a person isn't compromised, or such a hire used to inject a rat into the project. The best approach IMO is to continue with transparency and wide participation.

Quote
I would also like to know why we should care about ZK-Snarks when ZK-Starks which from what I understand is already Trustless is available.

ZK-Starks are resource-impractical at this time. Something like a megabyte per transaction.

All of these are directions to explore for the future.

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January 03, 2018, 05:09:50 PM
 #37511

Quote
SPECTRE’s underlying model falls into the category of partial synchronous networks: its
security  depends  on  the  existence  of  some  bound  on  the  delivery  time  of  messages  between honest participants

I don't like anything that is not trustless nor do I trust encapsulated Israeli security researchers.

Sarang seems to talk pretty fast and loose about changing underlying protocols with off the comments like this.

Thats right. Monero has to stay decentralized and trustles. If Fluffy disagree I will blackmail him by threaten to establish some trusted food supply system.
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January 03, 2018, 05:42:54 PM
 #37512

Hi there,

I'm putting together an evaluation matrix of all notable Anonymous/Private cryptocurrencies, and could use your help clarifyiing Monero.    Feedback including reference to something official (website, whitepaper etc) or Dev comments (or devs themselves) would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2669844.0


https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FAHuCzTV.png&t=584&c=IWxEgH3WCBa33w

Hi

The table does not reflect Bytecoin accurately, other than the fact it was the first Cryptonote which Monero forked from. Transaction privacy is protected by secure cryptographic algorithms. whereby no one can identify who sent the money, who the receiver was, and what amount of money was transferred. It utilises all the methods in your table: https://wiki.bytecoin.org/wiki/Main_Page

Monero is inflationary and is already vulnerable to intense network shocks which could lead to an economic crash. BCN is close to its emission limit and priced at $0.006 - This is the time to pull out of XMR while the going is good and reinvest into its ancestor: Bytecoin precisely when the market supply will restrict "dumping" of coins. 

https://twitter.com/Bytecoin_BCN
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January 03, 2018, 08:37:05 PM
 #37513

Does Fluffy talk here about to implement lightning network for Monero? If so, how is the project progressing?

Quote
Yes - that’s why we’re both working to get Lightning 100% working on both Monero and Litecoin
https://twitter.com/fluffypony/status/913667796025921536

It is not on the roadmap.
https://getmonero.org/resources/roadmap/
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January 03, 2018, 09:28:01 PM
 #37514

In future it's going to grow alot. Most stable with maximum privacy among all the cryptos. I'm backing it and gonna HODL it !

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January 03, 2018, 10:26:22 PM
 #37515

Hi there,

I'm putting together an evaluation matrix of all notable Anonymous/Private cryptocurrencies, and could use your help clarifyiing Monero.    Feedback including reference to something official (website, whitepaper etc) or Dev comments (or devs themselves) would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2669844.0




Hi

The table does not reflect Bytecoin accurately, other than the fact it was the first Cryptonote which Monero forked from. Transaction privacy is protected by secure cryptographic algorithms. whereby no one can identify who sent the money, who the receiver was, and what amount of money was transferred. It utilises all the methods in your table: https://wiki.bytecoin.org/wiki/Main_Page

Bytecoin does not effectively obscure the amount, nor is its use of ring signatures protected against chain reaction attacks as described in the MRL papers and the 'MoneroLink' paper. The only privacy part of Bytecoin that is actually secure and effective is stealth addresses.
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January 04, 2018, 01:06:00 AM
 #37516

The table does not reflect Bytecoin accurately, other than the fact it was the first Cryptonote which Monero forked from. Transaction privacy is protected by secure cryptographic algorithms. whereby no one can identify who sent the money, who the receiver was, and what amount of money was transferred. It utilises all the methods in your table: https://wiki.bytecoin.org/wiki/Main_Page

Monero is inflationary and is already vulnerable to intense network shocks which could lead to an economic crash. BCN is close to its emission limit and priced at $0.006 - This is the time to pull out of XMR while the going is good and reinvest into its ancestor: Bytecoin precisely when the market supply will restrict "dumping" of coins. 

Did you ever stop to wonder why the bytecoin community bailed on bytecoin and went with this fork instead? I was around and closely following cryptonote when all of this was happening. I went with the monero fork instead for the same reason as everyone else. Bytecoin is a premine scam.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
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January 04, 2018, 01:35:26 AM
 #37517

Quote
Quote
Because it uses a more complex consensus algorithm than the Nakamoto longest-chain consensus method, there is a lot of testing and analysis that needs to be done. The benefits, however, are intriguing: an implementation could increase the block rate substantially without compromising the security of the network.

I See compromising security written all over that quote I placed above. I'm starting to think this project needs a chief Security Officer. These are the exact actions that a three letter agency would be doing to place compromised positions in the codebase.

I (also) see compromising security in "a more complex consensus algorithm". A Chief Security Officer is not really the solution. How do you know such a person isn't compromised, or such a hire used to inject a rat into the project. The best approach IMO is to continue with transparency and wide participation. It is also easier for 3 letter orgs to turn devs if they are known, and anyone that thinks anyone let alone a basic programmer cannot get turned is delusional.


Actually I was thinking the Devs would get together and nominate one of their own, But the easiest way to get a rat in the system is to have had it there for a period of time contributing and as it gains trust it's pushes get merged with much less scrutiny and then it can slip in a exploit that can then be used to make the entire chain transparent and that of course would completely destroy this project.

Quote
Quote
I would also like to know why we should care about ZK-Snarks when ZK-Starks which from what I understand is already Trustless is available.

ZK-Starks are resource-impractical at this time. Something like a megabyte per transaction.

All of these are directions to explore for the future.

Thanks, the math is so far beyond me I haven't even tried to research these methods other than broad explanations.



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birr
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January 04, 2018, 01:46:53 AM
 #37518


Actually I was thinking the Devs would get together and nominate one of their own, But the easiest way to get a rat in the system is to have had it there for a period of time contributing and as it gains trust it's pushes get merged with much less scrutiny and then it can slip in a exploit that can then be used to make the entire chain transparent and that of course would completely destroy this project.


OMG a fluffymole  Shocked



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January 04, 2018, 02:39:15 AM
 #37519

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
birr
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January 04, 2018, 03:31:10 AM
 #37520

I just noticed something very not good at the latest Monero Observer.  In the "Guides" section there's an entry US Lifed posted an article discussing the top 3 best Monero wallets for 2018.
The linked article lists Free Wallet as best mobile wallet!  PLEASE delete this listing from the Monero Observer.

This just struck me. When we get range proofs a "queued transaction" option would be amazing. For those who are unaware with the introduction of rage proofs comes the scaling of transactions by number of outputs at log(n). This would massively reduce fees for a lot of users and atleast some amount of network load.  It would in a way allow monero to do micro transactions. Or something maybe pretty close to it.

So lets say we are talking about the gui. When you prepare a transaction right below the "send" button there could be a "queue" button.  Just queue up any sort of transaction that is non critical. If you want to make a donation to your favorite artist. Or you owe a friend some money but he isn't in a hurry to get paid back. Or you want to buy something but you aren't in a hurry to get it right away. Don't send it just queue it. Once you get a decent amount of things queued the fees would be drastically reduced. Up to 80% ontop of the already 80% savings being brought by range proofs.

And incentivizing people to queue in-order to save themselves money has the added benefit of saving everyone else who uses the network money too. Holy virtue cycle.
Even better:  build a decentralized app where participants pool or aggregate their transactions in order to reap the benefits of log scaling.  So your tx would get propagated right away, and your fee would be negligibly small (with enough participants).
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